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Good news Melee's, things are going to change according to Anet

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  • lokiboardlokiboard Chico, CAPosts: 195Member

    Originally posted by Tayah

    Please don't make fun, but which classes are considered melee? I notice even casters use axes and the sort.

    My favorite thing to do was throw a torch at the ground , start a fire and throw axes through the flames catching them on fire for extra damage.....I was a Ranger that could hold onto the axes as well..Change the off hand torch to another ax and melee...so yes there is crossover...

  • Atlan99Atlan99 Calgary, ABPosts: 1,323Member

    Originally posted by MMOExposed

    Originally posted by Atlan99

    Originally posted by MMOExposed

    Originally posted by nordya

     

     

    Those roles are still fun.

    guardian for example, has short ranged combat, and short ranged support (other than a few elites). Just WASD into enemy and lay down the support and run out (or dodge out if you can do that with your current disability)

    Dying gets annoying, but anybody can Rez you. So just try to stay near your team and away from enemy when it looks like you are about to go downed, or focus fired.

    dodging doesn't really do much in most cases anyway, since you will still get hit.

    the game could use more support focused players anyway. Just run around tossing buffs and shields. Or play ranged fighter. You are good to go.

    The underlined is blatantly untrue. I played 3 classes and dodging worked on all 3. There is no range class and no melee class in GW2. Every class has melee and ranged capabilities. Some have more than others but all have both.

    Yah ok, whatever dude...

    Furthermore just moving from side to side worked for dodging some ranged attacks in PvE.

  • TyrokiTyroki Wellington, FLPosts: 183Member

    Originally posted by Sector13

    Originally posted by Atlan99

    Originally posted by MMOExposed

    Originally posted by nordya

     

     

    Those roles are still fun.

    guardian for example, has short ranged combat, and short ranged support (other than a few elites). Just WASD into enemy and lay down the support and run out (or dodge out if you can do that with your current disability)

    Dying gets annoying, but anybody can Rez you. So just try to stay near your team and away from enemy when it looks like you are about to go downed, or focus fired.

    dodging doesn't really do much in most cases anyway, since you will still get hit.

    the game could use more support focused players anyway. Just run around tossing buffs and shields. Or play ranged fighter. You are good to go.

    The underlined is blatantly untrue. I played 3 classes and dodging worked on all 3. There is no range class and no melee class in GW2. Every class has melee and ranged capabilities. Some have more than others but all have both.

    The underlined is true. Just because YOU didn't have a problem with it doesn't mean others didn't. Dodge did less then nothing in my case. In most cases after I dodged I warped back to where I started to begin with. 

    That is a nasty little thing called lag. Another reason why beta exists. Stress testing.

    I do believe we stressed the hell out of the servers =D

    Which is good, by the way. Now they can tweak performance.

    MMO's played: Ragnarok Online (For years), WoW (for a few weeks only), Guild Wars, Lineage 2, Eve, Allods, Shattered Galaxy, 9 Dragons, City of Heroes, City of Villains, Star Trek Online (Got someone ELSE to pay for it), Champions Online (Someone else paid), Dofus, Dragonica, LOTRO, DDO and more... A LOT more. I've played good AND bad. The bad didn't last long. :P

  • Sector13Sector13 New Providence, PAPosts: 687Member

    Originally posted by Atlan99

    Originally posted by MMOExposed

    Originally posted by Atlan99

    Originally posted by MMOExposed

    Originally posted by nordya

     

     

    Those roles are still fun.

    guardian for example, has short ranged combat, and short ranged support (other than a few elites). Just WASD into enemy and lay down the support and run out (or dodge out if you can do that with your current disability)

    Dying gets annoying, but anybody can Rez you. So just try to stay near your team and away from enemy when it looks like you are about to go downed, or focus fired.

    dodging doesn't really do much in most cases anyway, since you will still get hit.

    the game could use more support focused players anyway. Just run around tossing buffs and shields. Or play ranged fighter. You are good to go.

    The underlined is blatantly untrue. I played 3 classes and dodging worked on all 3. There is no range class and no melee class in GW2. Every class has melee and ranged capabilities. Some have more than others but all have both.

    Yah ok, whatever dude...

    Furthermore just moving from side to side worked for dodging some ranged attacks in PvE.

    Ok, now that it utter BS. Moving side to side did NOTHING. Arrows would literally curve in air and still hit me. Quit lying out your @$$ and just let people tell their experiences with the game. 

  • Atlan99Atlan99 Calgary, ABPosts: 1,323Member

    Originally posted by Sector13

    The underlined is blatantly untrue. I played 3 classes and dodging worked on all 3. There is no range class and no melee class in GW2. Every class has melee and ranged capabilities. Some have more than others but all have both.

    The underlined is true. Just because YOU didn't have a problem with it doesn't mean others didn't. Dodge did less then nothing in my case. In most cases after I dodged I warped back to where I started to begin with. 

    That is unfortunate.

    I never dodged back to where I started. I dodged in which every direction I double tapped. For instance if I double tapped backward I would dodge backward. If I double tapped left, I dodged to the left.

    When I played my elementalist I could not afford to take many melee hits. If dodge didn't work for me I would have been unable to play that class.

  • Sector13Sector13 New Providence, PAPosts: 687Member

    Originally posted by Tyroki

    Originally posted by Sector13

    Originally posted by Atlan99

    Originally posted by MMOExposed

    Originally posted by nordya

     

     

    Those roles are still fun.

    guardian for example, has short ranged combat, and short ranged support (other than a few elites). Just WASD into enemy and lay down the support and run out (or dodge out if you can do that with your current disability)

    Dying gets annoying, but anybody can Rez you. So just try to stay near your team and away from enemy when it looks like you are about to go downed, or focus fired.

    dodging doesn't really do much in most cases anyway, since you will still get hit.

    the game could use more support focused players anyway. Just run around tossing buffs and shields. Or play ranged fighter. You are good to go.

    The underlined is blatantly untrue. I played 3 classes and dodging worked on all 3. There is no range class and no melee class in GW2. Every class has melee and ranged capabilities. Some have more than others but all have both.

    The underlined is true. Just because YOU didn't have a problem with it doesn't mean others didn't. Dodge did less then nothing in my case. In most cases after I dodged I warped back to where I started to begin with. 

    That is a nasty little thing called lag. Another reason why beta exists. Stress testing.

    I do believe we stressed the hell out of the servers =D

    Which is good, by the way. Now they can tweak performance.

    No **** it was lag but lag isn't the reason to all the games problems. Unless you are really that nieve. 

  • OpapanaxOpapanax Rochester, NYPosts: 973Member

    Originally posted by nordya

    I can move fine with WASD. Heck dps on wow finds I move too much. I did try Tera and could dodge all right. Just when I read fps combat, I'm not so great at that. Hence why I only pvp as a healer/support.

    You should be fine then. It's not FPS shooting like in Tera where you have a reticle to target baddies. You fire you power off and it will kind of auto-lock / hit a target in that direction or you can tab target to focus on you.

    NOTE: Your ability will fire off no matter if you are in range or not. You will see when you miss or are out of range however. Which is cool..

    There's no reticle you actually have to aim, you just face in the general direction of the target. It's not completely optimized yet though in BWE. They may need to adjust that cone for the targeting some.. But it's in and "working"

    Hope that helps.. Movement you will probably enjoy the freedom. If DPS says you move too much, since Aggro is not handeled like in normal WoW. It's totally free, anyone can get aggro, there's no taunts..

    PM before you report at least or you could just block.

  • Atlan99Atlan99 Calgary, ABPosts: 1,323Member

    Originally posted by Sector13

    Furthermore just moving from side to side worked for dodging some ranged attacks in PvE.

    Ok, now that it utter BS. Moving side to side did NOTHING. Arrows would literally curve in air and still hit me. Quit lying out your @$$ and just let people tell their experiences with the game. 

    This was true. Not all ranged curved to follow you.

    Slow ranged objects were easy to dodge by moving to the side. Changing directions alot helped. I learned this from Darkfall. This is how you dodge ranged attacks in that game. Good players will lead the target and still hit you. By changing directions constantly you become unpredictable. This worked in PvE.

    With ranged that curved you could still dodge but actually had to double tap at the last second. I would use this to dodge the sanvir ice balistas.

    The key to the game that helped me most was constant movement. I think this will be something many players struggle to grasp at first. It will take some getting used to.

  • OpapanaxOpapanax Rochester, NYPosts: 973Member

    Originally posted by Atlan99

    Originally posted by Sector13

    Furthermore just moving from side to side worked for dodging some ranged attacks in PvE.

    Ok, now that it utter BS. Moving side to side did NOTHING. Arrows would literally curve in air and still hit me. Quit lying out your @$$ and just let people tell their experiences with the game. 

    This was true. Not all ranged curved to follow you.

    Slow ranged objects were easy to dodge by moving to the side. Changing directions alot helped. I learned this from Darkfall. This is how you dodge ranged attacks in that game. Good players will lead the target and still hit you. By moving directions constantly you become unpredictable. This worked in PvE.

    With ranged that curved you could still dodge but actually had to double tap at the last second. I would use this to dodge the sanvir ice balistas.

    Basically this.. Should the A.I be smart enough to trail and or lead a target?.... or use skills that do that.. I noticed myself that some range could be avoided by strafing, but certain things like focused shots.. or quick shots could not always be strafed...

    PM before you report at least or you could just block.

  • TyrokiTyroki Wellington, FLPosts: 183Member

    Originally posted by Sector13

    Originally posted by Tyroki

    Originally posted by Sector13

    Originally posted by Atlan99

    Originally posted by MMOExposed

    Originally posted by nordya

     

     

    Those roles are still fun.

    guardian for example, has short ranged combat, and short ranged support (other than a few elites). Just WASD into enemy and lay down the support and run out (or dodge out if you can do that with your current disability)

    Dying gets annoying, but anybody can Rez you. So just try to stay near your team and away from enemy when it looks like you are about to go downed, or focus fired.

    dodging doesn't really do much in most cases anyway, since you will still get hit.

    the game could use more support focused players anyway. Just run around tossing buffs and shields. Or play ranged fighter. You are good to go.

    The underlined is blatantly untrue. I played 3 classes and dodging worked on all 3. There is no range class and no melee class in GW2. Every class has melee and ranged capabilities. Some have more than others but all have both.

    The underlined is true. Just because YOU didn't have a problem with it doesn't mean others didn't. Dodge did less then nothing in my case. In most cases after I dodged I warped back to where I started to begin with. 

    That is a nasty little thing called lag. Another reason why beta exists. Stress testing.

    I do believe we stressed the hell out of the servers =D

    Which is good, by the way. Now they can tweak performance.

    No **** it was lag but lag isn't the reason to all the games problems. Unless you are really that nieve. 

    No need for the dull overdose of hostilities.

    Yes. The game has many problems. Bugs run rampant and many things weren't working. This included many key gameplay features.

    However, it would be naive to think that everything was going to work like a charm. It was still named beta for a reason, and not simply 'trial'

    MMO's played: Ragnarok Online (For years), WoW (for a few weeks only), Guild Wars, Lineage 2, Eve, Allods, Shattered Galaxy, 9 Dragons, City of Heroes, City of Villains, Star Trek Online (Got someone ELSE to pay for it), Champions Online (Someone else paid), Dofus, Dragonica, LOTRO, DDO and more... A LOT more. I've played good AND bad. The bad didn't last long. :P

  • rungardrungard st. john''s, NFPosts: 1,035Member

    Perhaps all thats needed is to improve the sheild skill?

    is it possible to have active sheild that also uses endurance.....similar to dodge, except it blocks a portion of the damage and not all of it? You would have to be rooted to do this to balance it i would imagine.

     

    Sheilds up!

  • aesperusaesperus Hamshire, NVPosts: 5,128Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Sector13

    Originally posted by Atlan99

    Originally posted by MMOExposed

    Yah ok, whatever dude...

    Furthermore just moving from side to side worked for dodging some ranged attacks in PvE.

    Ok, now that it utter BS. Moving side to side did NOTHING. Arrows would literally curve in air and still hit me. Quit lying out your @$$ and just let people tell their experiences with the game. 

    Actually, no it's not BS. For one he said 'some' not all. For two, I haven't seen any arrows curving in  midair to follow a person. The most that happens is they keep going in the direction they were going in, but they still manage to connect with your hit box (basically, the graphic will look like the arrow just missed your character, but the damage still registers).

    Secondly, you can dodge any attack. However, it's not like TERA (in which dodging gives you a solid second or so of invulnerability). In GW2 you actually do have to time your dodges correctly, or you will get hit. There are even some events in the game to help you with the timing, I just wish they added them to the starting / tutorial areas.

    Honestly, a lot of the melee complaints seem to be coming from people who are just bad. I played both ranged (engineer & ranger) and melee (warrior and thief) and it's not like ranged are more powerful. Melee currently do the most damage in the game. Ranged classes are just easier to play, that's it.

    - When it comes to survivability, learning your skills plays a huge roll. For example, the warriors 'shake it off!' skill is amazing. Especially when combined w/ Mending (heal + remove conditions). Basically, you can't charge into a fight like an idiot and expect to dominate. You gotta be smart about it. Depending on what I wanted to do, I spent a lot of time switching between the rifle + greatsword, or longbow + sword/warhorn. In WvW, at least it really helped to have a ranged attack of some kind, and then a melee build of some kind. In structured, I usually didn't equip ranged attacks at all, and went w/ Hammer / double swords.

    The general strategy when surviving as a melee seems to be standing back for a sec while you weaken your foes, or cripple them. Then charge in w/ a speed boost or leap and finish the job in close combat. Most enemies will start to panic if you're not alone, and if not, you break your CC and charge back to safety.

  • OpapanaxOpapanax Rochester, NYPosts: 973Member

    Originally posted by rungard

    Perhaps all thats needed is to improve the sheild skill?

    is it possible to have active sheild that also uses endurance.....similar to dodge, except it blocks a portion of the damage and not all of it? You would have to be rooted to do this to balance it i would imagine.

     

    Sheilds up!

    THIS!.. I wonder if it came down to a tech. limitation on this.. But the game is so fluid in some parts that I wouldn't of been surprised to see them. I'm not saying I'm disappointed but it's a "hmm" moment for sure

    I don't you'd need to be rooted.. It'd be ranged based for the damage coming in. Would be nice to see some shield blocking animations that they would come up with.. At least from how it felt with the thief I could see the shield mechanic being really fun.

    PM before you report at least or you could just block.

  • aesperusaesperus Hamshire, NVPosts: 5,128Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by rungard

    Perhaps all thats needed is to improve the sheild skill?

    is it possible to have active sheild that also uses endurance.....similar to dodge, except it blocks a portion of the damage and not all of it? You would have to be rooted to do this to balance it i would imagine.

     

    Sheilds up!

    At most, they maybe need to reduce the cooldowns on some of the shield skills, but that's about it.

    Some of these can be upgraded with traits. Obviously the warrior & guardian are best at this. Problem is people are used to charging into large groups as a melee and dominating. While you can do that in GW2, you have to be smarter about it. If you run in looking like a giant greatsword-wielding target, you are going to die. It's that simple, lol.

    Also smart weapon swapping goes a VERY long way, towards staying alive / making sure others don't.

  • aesperusaesperus Hamshire, NVPosts: 5,128Member Uncommon
    sorry, double post.
  • Atlan99Atlan99 Calgary, ABPosts: 1,323Member

    Originally posted by aesperus

     

    At most, they maybe need to reduce the cooldowns on some of the shield skills, but that's about it.

    Some of these can be upgraded with traits. Obviously the warrior & guardian are best at this. Problem is people are used to charging into large groups as a melee and dominating. While you can do that in GW2, you have to be smarter about it. If you run in looking like a giant greatsword-wielding target, you are going to die. It's that simple, lol.

    Also smart weapon swapping goes a VERY long way, towards staying alive / making sure others don't.

    Just to add to weapon swapping. I noticed some characters have abilities that create distance with opponents. Swapping weapons and using those skills can also be used as a form of dodge or damage evasion. This could potentially save your life in many situations.

  • Sector13Sector13 New Providence, PAPosts: 687Member

    Originally posted by aesperus

    Originally posted by Sector13

    Originally posted by Atlan99

    Originally posted by MMOExposed

    Yah ok, whatever dude...

    Furthermore just moving from side to side worked for dodging some ranged attacks in PvE.

    Ok, now that it utter BS. Moving side to side did NOTHING. Arrows would literally curve in air and still hit me. Quit lying out your @$$ and just let people tell their experiences with the game. 

    Actually, no it's not BS. For one he said 'some' not all. For two, I haven't seen any arrows curving in  midair to follow a person. The most that happens is they keep going in the direction they were going in, but they still manage to connect with your hit box (basically, the graphic will look like the arrow just missed your character, but the damage still registers).

    Secondly, you can dodge any attack. However, it's not like TERA (in which dodging gives you a solid second or so of invulnerability). In GW2 you actually do have to time your dodges correctly, or you will get hit. There are even some events in the game to help you with the timing, I just wish they added them to the starting / tutorial areas.

    Honestly, a lot of the melee complaints seem to be coming from people who are just bad. I played both ranged (engineer & ranger) and melee (warrior and thief) and it's not like ranged are more powerful. Melee currently do the most damage in the game. Ranged classes are just easier to play, that's it.

    - When it comes to survivability, learning your skills plays a huge roll. For example, the warriors 'shake it off!' skill is amazing. Especially when combined w/ Mending (heal + remove conditions). Basically, you can't charge into a fight like an idiot and expect to dominate. You gotta be smart about it. Depending on what I wanted to do, I spent a lot of time switching between the rifle + greatsword, or longbow + sword/warhorn. In WvW, at least it really helped to have a ranged attack of some kind, and then a melee build of some kind. In structured, I usually didn't equip ranged attacks at all, and went w/ Hammer / double swords.

    The general strategy when surviving as a melee seems to be standing back for a sec while you weaken your foes, or cripple them. Then charge in w/ a speed boost or leap and finish the job in close combat. Most enemies will start to panic if you're not alone, and if not, you break your CC and charge back to safety.

    In short, if people find mistakes with the game it means they are bad players? What a lame excuse. Every action game I have ever played plays better then GW2. The fact that people defend this lame game with terrible reasonings and excuses is laughable. It's like watching people defend how good Darkfall and Mortal Online are. Maybe you guys should play a REAL action based combat game and learn the difference. Last time I checked, a game was about having fun, not making excuses for it's lame gameplay design. 

  • Atlan99Atlan99 Calgary, ABPosts: 1,323Member

    Originally posted by Sector13

     

    In short, if people find mistakes with the game it means they are bad players? What a lame excuse. Every action game I have ever played plays better then GW2. The fact that people defend this lame game with terrible reasonings and excuses is laughable. It's like watching people defend how good Darkfall and Mortal Online are. Maybe you guys should play a REAL action based combat game and learn the difference. Last time I checked, a game was about having fun, not making excuses for it's lame gameplay design. 

    To be honest. When people start to resort to Ad Hominems to make their case. I start to get suspicious. You aren't even giving examples or explaining your point of view.

    As far as Darkfall. The game had a terrible launch. As a game it has improved vastly. However there are problems with it's ruleset that will keep it a niche game. The incredible skill grind and full-loot.

    Darkfall could be the greatest game designed in many ways. It would still remain a niche game because of it's ruleset. I have often wondered why AV hasn't offered different rulesets for their game. I think it would breathe new life into their game. It would also give them additional funding.

  • corpusccorpusc Chattanooga, TNPosts: 1,330Member

    Originally posted by Elikal

     

    I don't see how that's so difficult to see. It worked for the last ~30 years of PnP and computer games. For 30 years the idea of games is: if you are a warrior type of class, you don't HAVE to jump and dodge, because you have a frigging platemail! Why go against everything we know that it worked perfectly for decades?

     

     

    here's the thing. people such as myself thinks that it HASN'T worked for the past 30 years, and that its time for something different.   and thus the need to go against "everything that we know", that was sucking ass for decades.

    it sounds like you're trying to say that it makes sense that if you're armoured you don't have to move.

    try telling that to the knights that actually existed in the real world.  they are not invulnerable in those plate suits.  not by a long shot.  there's all kinds of cracks and crevices to work your sword into, and certain weapon types to break apart that armour.   sure, it definitely helps, but FAR from the point of removing the need to dodge and move around strategically in combat.

    The End
    ---------------------------
    i don't expect to like Darkfall, altho i may like it MORE than other MMOs. i know it is gonna have a very frustrating level of grind to it, even if its significantly less than most. waiting for a pure FAST action virtual world. dice rolling & character levels (even "skills") IN COMBAT should have never carried over from pencil & paper to a computer that can reasonably model 3D spaces and objects

  • corpusccorpusc Chattanooga, TNPosts: 1,330Member

    Originally posted by Elikal

     

     

    Warrior classes are not supposed to do heavy damage nor to be squishy. I don't see how that's so difficult to see.

     

    this is the problem with existing games.  everything is "supposed" to be this way and that way.  meanwhile virtually all MMO combat just plain sucks.

    GW2 philosophy largely about trying to get rid of the suck, which means getting rid of much of the standard rules that everything supposedly is "supposed" to do.

    GW2 questions all the basic MMO assumptions and rethinks them.

     

    i've seen posts of yours in the past about how you want the same old same old combat, so i really think you shouldn't waste time on GW2, cuz its just not made for you.  if you don't see any problems with existing games and don't want them changed, you're never gonna like something like GW2 changing everything you know up as much as it does. 

    you might get some other bits of joy out of GW2, but you are fundamentally opposed to many of its fundamental philosophies.

    The End
    ---------------------------
    i don't expect to like Darkfall, altho i may like it MORE than other MMOs. i know it is gonna have a very frustrating level of grind to it, even if its significantly less than most. waiting for a pure FAST action virtual world. dice rolling & character levels (even "skills") IN COMBAT should have never carried over from pencil & paper to a computer that can reasonably model 3D spaces and objects

  • ProfRedProfRed Duluth, GAPosts: 3,511Member

    Ah sweet I was just talking to my friends about how much I loved playing melee in the crazy events, and how I could use skill and weapon swapping to try to stay alive while dishing out damage.  We were talking about how much we loved the difficulty and how impressed we were by it.

    Once again we will have a game dumbed down until it is a cake walk to appease the masses.  I can't wait until you can spam 1 and survive all PvE encounters and events!  Hooray!

  • VannorVannor YorkshirePosts: 2,970Member Uncommon
    Don't see what all the fuss is about with melee. I don't like the animation jerking with the rangers longsword and thats about it. The main issue that causes chaos seems to be that the character autofaces targets.. but if you want things like swooping side strikes and stuff to look right then you ain't really got a choice.
  • saurus123saurus123 nonePosts: 570Member Uncommon

    too all the crying ppl that warrior cant tank

    you should read more about how warriors were figthing, they didnt stand and take blows they used block, parry and evade attacks

    becouse every other mmo allow you to stand and take all the dmg doesnt mean that gw2 need same old combat mechanic

  • neuronomadneuronomad Symsonia, KYPosts: 1,276Member

    I don't really have  lot to add to this topic other than normally I am a ranged player and figured that I was set to be an Elementalist of Engineer but once I unlocked the Warriors bow and rifle skills I fell in love with the class.  I only made it to level 8 or 9 on my Warrior but I have to say that by far he was the best fun I had out of a list of very fun clases. 

    I dind't feel gimped at all in any situation after level 7 when I could switch between ranged and meleee.   Personally as far as the balance between survivability I really didn't notice much difference (at least that the levels with I played to) between any of the classes. 

    The thing that I LOVED about Guild Wars 2 is all of the different ways to play regardless of what clsss you select.   It is like the adaptability of classes from RIFT, just with weapons and stance changes versus soul changes.

     I confess I didn't play any PvP during the beta so as to balance between clases on that front I can't say but from the PvE side I think ArenaNet has things at a very balanced work of art that achives the "No Trinity Needed" mindset.

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  • V-L-A-DV-L-A-D NicosiaPosts: 50Member
    IMO its very right that the melee weapons / skills are more powerful than spells. Just think about it, an Elementalist can deal damage from about 25 meters distance, so if he also do very high damage that means that he is immortal because until any melee class get in range with him he will already have less that 25% of HP... So GW2 brings a balance to combat, who hits from distance, hits less. Also I don't know why you are saying that heavy armor don't provide good defence, a warrior or a guardian takes much less damage from enemies than a necromancer, I checked it myself.

    image
    Sorry for bad English. :)

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