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Personal Story: The Weakest link of the chain?

2

Comments

  • ariboersmaariboersma Yankton, SDPosts: 1,802Member

    My story was a bit odd.. I played norn and I ended up with half a story which was riveting and cool fighting along side Eir defeating this bad norn guy and a dragon minion thing... but then she summoned me to her house and apparently I had a wild night out with a Charr warband, got drunk with one of them and lost the leaders car(apparently NEITHER of us remember anything about the night).. this half was fun but I don't think it fit all that well. I went with dignity, snow leopard and the last char creation choice wasn't very good and I think that is what keyed in this storyline. So the whole time im with this Charr warband looking for the vehicle I end up in the WRONG 15-25 zone.. I was sent to Diessa instead of the Norn 15-25 zone. I don't really mind but it is not how I would prefer things have gone. Now from what I heard of the human stories it sounded epic as hell. I do think it will get better as the story goes but I will not be making that choice when I make a Norn in release.

     

    To those complaining about the stories in general, like the guy above me.. WHY?!?! What does it hurt? nothing.. its fun, good xp, good story and makes you like your char more.

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  • ariboersmaariboersma Yankton, SDPosts: 1,802Member

    Originally posted by dannydeuce

    I for one thought the Norn story was absolutely dreadful.  It was my first experience with the game and I was shocked by how bad some of the writing was and how much I really didn't care for the whole "aspect of the animal" crap and how the NPCs were in general.  

    The humans and charr on the otherhand were pretty decent.  It was like night and day for me the difference in how I felt about my character.

    that is who the Norn are... also which story did you get? there are what 30 options total? Whats funny is I really disliked the Charr, although I didn't play very much. 

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  • corpusccorpusc Chattanooga, TNPosts: 1,330Member

    Originally posted by ariboersma

     

    To those complaining about the stories in general, like the guy above me.. WHY?!?! What does it hurt? nothing.. its fun, good xp, good story and makes you like your char more.

     

    i was stating how i thought it was great for people who enjoy it that they are providing it for you DESPITE that i don't personally care for it. 

    i'm being inclusive.  i'm giving a damn about your needs.   please don't dis me for not liking stories and not having the same needs.

     

     

    to explain why single player concerns mixed into a multiplayer world compromises the multiplayer world, would be a HUGE conversation deserving of its own thread.  i'm not about to start on that.

     

    just know this.... people are different and want different things. 

    that was one of my main points.  and that i was glad to see various people being provided for, in a more intelligently designed manner.

    The End
    ---------------------------
    i don't expect to like Darkfall, altho i may like it MORE than other MMOs. i know it is gonna have a very frustrating level of grind to it, even if its significantly less than most. waiting for a pure FAST action virtual world. dice rolling & character levels (even "skills") IN COMBAT should have never carried over from pencil & paper to a computer that can reasonably model 3D spaces and objects

  • AIMonsterAIMonster Apopka, FLPosts: 2,059Member

    I chose Human Noble Orphan.  The dialogue (and acting as a result) was lame.  Most of the actual missions were fun though.  I personally never really cared that much about story and enjoy good gameplay more so it didn't really bother me.  It seems like it's already getting a bit more epic and I'm hoping in the next beta we get to progress the story further because I'm genuinely interested where they are going to go since the missions are fun.  Apparently Norn is the worst while Charr seem to have a story, VA, and dialogue people actually like.

    What's really odd is the dialogue around cities and towns is actually fantastic.  I had a few moments where I was literally laughing at the exchanges between two or more NPCs.  Not sure what went wrong with the story dialogue.

    I also think it's better than GW1.  I found the cutscenes in GW1 to be flat out bad.  I actually wanted to skip them.  I don't quite feel that way about GW2 cutscenes, so it definitely an improvement.  I hope they learn from this feedback though and try to produce better quality work in the future.

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    Raptr link because it's the cool new trend:
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  • MonorojoMonorojo San Diego, CAPosts: 411Member

    There are several weak links in the chain. The zerg like WvW whcih will be heavily influenced by how much one spends in the cash shop, the not so dynamic "dynamic" events, the horrible ability delay, the graphics that are alraedy inferior to a game that just launched a year ago (TERA), the "new and innovative" questing that is just a reskinned version of what we already have, and of course, the lackluster personal story.

     

    It is hard to pick which is the weakest however.

  • Matheusor1Matheusor1 New York, NYPosts: 174Member

    Originally posted by Monorojo

    There are several weak links in the chain. The zerg like WvW whcih will be heavily influenced by how much one spends in the cash shop, the not so dynamic "dynamic" events, the horrible ability delay, the graphics that are alraedy inferior to a game that just launched a year ago (TERA), the "new and innovative" questing that is just a reskinned version of what we already have, and of course, the lackluster personal story.

     

    It is hard to pick which is the weakest however.

    Ok, I don't wanna go off topic here and create a big fuss, but let me just point out that upgrades and blueprints in WvW cost 2 silver. At the end of the beta I had around 200 silver and had no idea what to do with it. Therefore, your cash cash/gold argument makes no sense.

    Also, for a game that has been in development for years, Guild Wars 2 has amazing graphics, you should check your machine. By the way, I wouldn't compare GW2 to Tera, especially since Tera has been recently sued by NCsoft for stealing Lineage's 3 technology.

    Oopsy daisy.

  • MonorojoMonorojo San Diego, CAPosts: 411Member
     Alot more to buy than upgrades and blueprints to gain an advantage in WvW, and the suit has nothing to do with the fact that TERA looks a LOT (and i mean A LOT) better than GW2 graphically and does not have the tired tab targeting combat that GW2 has.
  • hundejahrehundejahre Chicago, ILPosts: 339Member

    I liked the stories I experienced. Didn't get too deep into them yet, highest one I finished was just before a level 18 Char story. No, it obviously wasn't something they dumped a ton of cash into, but we've seen that done once recently and the results were no better.

  • hundejahrehundejahre Chicago, ILPosts: 339Member


    Originally posted by Monorojo
     Alot more to buy than upgrades and blueprints to gain an advantage in WvW, and the suit has nothing to do with the fact that TERA looks a LOT (and i mean A LOT) better than GW2 graphically and does not have the tired tab targeting combat that GW2 has.

    Really off topic, but what kind of targeting does TERA have? And I rarely tab targeted while playing GW2, when I did it was mostly out of habit and not need. Meleeing things near me I never had to select a target once. And I'll take tab targeting over furies any day.

  • MumboJumboMumboJumbo LondonPosts: 3,221Member

    Originally posted by Creslin321

    For the small amount of personal story that I did...I thought it was alright.  Not spectacular, but okay.

    That said that, I feel like the personal story is completely unnecessary and out of place.  Just like I thought it was in SWTOR.

    Why make an MMORPG and then put a single player game inside of it?  I feel like it not only defeats the purpose of an MMORPG, but almost always provides an inferior single player experience when compared to actual single player games.

    This is why I didn't really like SWTOR.  I felt like I was playing a B-grade KOTOR the whole time.  And I basically have the same feelings about the GW2 personal story.

    Fortunately, the personal story won't really completely (or even majorly) define your play experience and winds up (for me) just serving as an occasional diversion from actually playing the real game...the MMO.

    I whole-heartedly disagree, though accept your stance is what perhaps a lot of people looking for mmorpg gaming will see as logical.

    The reason I'm in disagreement, is if I want a themepark mmorpg, then my choices have already been set down "a path". Previous mmorpgs you just follow the path on rails with little story sprinkled directly on those flagstones, because it's sorta open area with quests for many people to interact with.

    I'm happy to have story, even if the standard is not on a par with single-player. I enjoy the effort put in by the developers even if it's cheesy and seeing their thought process how to make the world more immediate and for your character to relate to it: These are what I'm enjoying more than the stupid voice or clunky sentences. And if some sentences are good, all is mostly acceptable anyway in regard to that: The story is just a topping afterall.

    I think the story is very good for 1) character development along with 2) power progress & provides some continuity and a greater attempt at emotional involvement between logins and during logins, respectively, as well as a hook for the lore of the game to be explorable also.

    Unfortunately reading the OP quote from the lead writer, those guys sound like they they made the mistake of making you too heroic too early which leaves less room for the character to either grow into a hero or develop along a different path and therefore allow the player a feeling of making the story their own.

  • VesaviusVesavius BristolPosts: 7,635Member Uncommon

    I like the delivery mechanic in principle for story in the game, and the somewhat clumsy feel I got I put down to the 'work in progress' stickers on the screens.

    Was the VO bad? Well, it wasn't perfect but I wasn't offended.

    The way they have chosen delivers the story pretty well imo, without all the fakery and faffing of the SWtOR style (which actually started to get on my nerves really fast).

    Needs some work though, but, like they say, 'work in progress' ;)

  • ZeroxinZeroxin LondonPosts: 2,521Member Uncommon
    Personally, I was pretty satisfied with the personal story. It doesn't ramp up to amazing levels at the start but, the way the stories play out, you always got a climax that left you wanting to go further into the story. The norn are always cheesy, they've always been cheesy, it's basically who they are.

    This is not a game.

  • GamayunGamayun LjubljanaPosts: 73Member

    I liked the personal story more than I thought I would; it's far better than the story in GW1 and it pulls me in more. 

    Admittedly my standards for stories in games, especially MMORPGs, are pretty low, but I thought the story was all right. 

    The acting and the lines are decent, some characters are more memorable than the others. (I'm more or less ready to fangirl over Countess Anise, but I need to know more about her first. :P)

     

    I didn't want to progress with my storyline too far (I want to keep some surprises and freshness for the release), but I enjoyed the variations that different characters can have. 

    At least in the case of humans, the depth is shown in the small things upon replaying with a character of a different background. 

    You're dealing with the same story, but from a different angle, with different yet connected tasks, and with slightly different motivations. 

    It really gives that feeling of interconnection. 

    One event involves and affects all levels of the city populace; it looks like in truth the story happens at more places at once, even if you get to see only a small part of it with one single character. 

    During the story quests around lvl 11 I was literally thinking, "This is cool!"

     

    IDK how it plays at higher levels (I suspect at that point the alliance to your order might influence the story more than your background), but for now I like how such modifications can enrich and make fun what is basically the same storyline. 

    I also expect it to become even more interesting and engaging later on, since that's how the story structure normally works in story-telling.

     

    As for the norn story, I felt really disconnected from my character, so I decided I'll rather stop playing and give it another try somewhere in the next few months (I felt like my character was a scumbag).

    The charr story seems interesting. It offers the perspective that our GW1 heroes are dearly missing, but sadly I didn't progress far enough to say more. 

     

     

    TL;DR:

    It's a significant improvement over GW1.

     

    I progressed the furthest through the human storyline:

    The story with one character feels all right - nothing special, but fun. Upon combining the knowledge of the starting stories of all human backgrounds, it actually goes from "ok" to "great" because of the interconnections. 

     

    Now I wonder what kind of picture of the world a player would have after experiencing the personal stories of all races from all angles. 

     

  • TyrokiTyroki Wellington, FLPosts: 183Member

    Originally posted by Kalfer

    Originally posted by gaeanprayer

    It's hard to say. I enjoyed my personal story, but it was only one of the many options and for all I know, I chose one of the better ones (Human Orphan Noble). There was also a lot of it that I found enjoyable BECAUSE I was already familiar with the GW world. Having played GW1 for years, and reading all the novels out so far, I wrote about "nuances" in the story that helped me enjoy it perhaps more than someone whose only knowledge of the story is what's rolled out before them in GW2.

    For instance, at one point I had to choose between Logan bull-rushing into the white mantle or Anise's more subtle strategy. I went with Anise, and Logan used himself as a decoy. When they appeared to attack him, they are all haughty and self-assured, and Logan's voice acting there was great, very hum-drum and sarcastic. I actually laughed out loud, because I pictured him as so much more staunch and uppity. I appreciated that. But someone who didn't know him prior to the game would have missed the fun of that entirely, or took it only at face value.

    The voice acting was adequate overall, good in some parts, a bit campy in others (I agree, Norn were trying a bit too hard) but let's be honest, voice acting is always terrible. People keep swooning over SWTOR, but the voice acting isn't particularly good there, either. Bioware did ~mostly~ good work on the voice acting in the Mass Effect series, but that's pretty much the exception to the rule. Overall, whenever given the option, I choose dubbing that isn't in English. My opinion is, if I can't understand what they're saying (subtitles, ftw!) then I can pretend they're doing it right.

    As for people that want to play the bad guy, I can't comment. That's not something I was ever driven to do, but I understand that appeals to some people. Certainly never a bad thing to have more options, and Anet adding it in the future only gives people more content and the game more replayability. So, fine with me.

     

    I think a lot of the in-game voice acting is great.

     

    I heard these two kids talking in Divinity's Reach:

     

    "When my dad goes to work, he goes to the bar"

    "is he a bartender?"

    "no that's the weird part!"

     

     

    The delivery was really good too. There was a lot of grea voice there. I think the way the characters pop out of the screen and talk out of thin air is weird. 

     

     

    What if they went with something like this - Since they have amazing artists? : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGLXC2C-e7w

    Girl: "The necromancers look so ugly,"

    Guy: "I know. I wouldn't be caught dead in that outfit"

    Girl: "Was that a joke?"

    Guy: "Maybe it was."

    MMO's played: Ragnarok Online (For years), WoW (for a few weeks only), Guild Wars, Lineage 2, Eve, Allods, Shattered Galaxy, 9 Dragons, City of Heroes, City of Villains, Star Trek Online (Got someone ELSE to pay for it), Champions Online (Someone else paid), Dofus, Dragonica, LOTRO, DDO and more... A LOT more. I've played good AND bad. The bad didn't last long. :P

  • IPolygonIPolygon ViennaPosts: 707Member Uncommon

    Personally, I find the story entertaining. I played the human noble story and was pleasently suprised of some of the voice acting and how the story evolved. Of course it is not a top notch story from books I've been reading or movies I've been watching, but personally a game is not about the story the devs tell through the game, but the gameplay overall. All game mechanics in combat, the systems etc are what makes a game to me.

    I usually find RPGs with use of heavy dialogues boring, because I cannot really decide what I would want to do, but choose what the writer had specified for me. I prefer making my own story by playing the game.

  • frestonfreston orensePosts: 521Member
    i played charr honorless father iron legion and i liked it a lot. My only gripe with it is that it as actually too difficult at one part. The acting was good, the story interesting and the characters (especially the father) complex. 
  • Cod_EyeCod_Eye jarrowPosts: 1,016Member

    I went along with the personal story, but only because it was there, and was curious what happens next. After getting to a point where I first seen my lost family heirloom and the effect it had, I wanted it back NOW.  That was as far as I got with it.  I must admit after a couple of scenes I ended up hitting "go to the end button".

    If they took it out I wouldnt miss it, but it was worth playing through just to get a reward at the end of each act.  It was a bit like starting to read a book but it wasnt engrossing enough to read it all so you want to just flick to the back and read the last page and be done with it.

    I actually had more fun reading the chat bubbles from npc's and player characters when they was stood without activity for to long.

  • MahavishnuMahavishnu BerlinPosts: 336Member

    Over all they did a good job.

    Ok, the voice acting is mediocre and sometimes it feels like "shut up, go to the next chapter!", but you know what? That's exactly the same complaint many players made playing SWTOR! As many have already said, the choices you can make during character creation and afterwards in the quests really amplify the immersion. I have only seen the human quests and they seem to be great fun. Although they seem to be too easy sometimes, I like the fact, that they are made like detective stories.

    I do think it is a strong link in the chain, because if you want to play a straight forward hero story, you get it. And you can take your friends with you. But since this is an MMO, I think, that this part of the game has not to be more than just a distraction from all the other stuff. Like "I made some pvp today, went to a dungeon and did some DEs together with my friends, and now I am going to have a look at my personal story." I think it is a much better concept than the phasing in WoW (although I liked it a lot).

    Finally, I am pleased to hear how hard they are working at ArenaNet to make it good content, that they listen to the players, but that they do not promise impossible things.

    Advertising has us chasing cars and clothes, working jobs we hate so we can buy shit we don't need.

  • EmwynEmwyn MoatshirePosts: 546Member
    The weakest link? Probably.  The more I think about it the more I realise the rpg element of this game is just a tacked on element that has little to do with anything else. It is a side issue to deal with or not at your own descretion. In the end the game maybe IS an esport mostly. Nothing wrong with that if that is what they wanted but it will be very tough to compete against MMORPG games because of that. What does GW2 want to be? An MMOG? MMORPG? I am not sure. I understand it's about choice, I get that completely. But you can't be all things to all people without sacrificing something along the way and IMHO, in the case of GW2 anything resembling depth is the sacrifice.

    the poster formerly known as melangel :P

  • DarkPonyDarkPony RotterdamPosts: 5,566Member

    The criticism is very similar to my own experiences. If this would have been GW2's biggest advertising point, people would be crying "fail of the century" all over the internet. Good for the game that it is not.

    From what I saw of it the writing is awfully cliche and fit for 11 year olds. (Like I said in my reviewette: being called a friggin' hero in the first few minutes kind of makes picking the street urchin background at character creation obsolete). They should have taken a look at writing in games like Fallout, or even Swtor (though that was too late, probably) and do things more tongue in cheek, suggestive, appealing to intelligence and without *bore your brains out* concepts like absolute good or evil.  

    Next to this having no choice in conversations really doesn't cut it anymore: the exchanges are like watching poorly rehearsed street theater: non-interactive and artificial. After helping out someone I knew who was in a local gang and having a concluding conversation with him and the gang leader, I was suddenly summoned to the authorities, asking me if I had any information on them and their plans. And fair enough, my character starts blurting out everything he had overheard. I was like "WTF You ******* traitor I didn't want to say that!"

    Weakest link in GW2 for sure, this.
    (At least what I saw of it. Your mileage might vary).

  • goldiewilsongoldiewilson Baton Rogue, LAPosts: 90Member

    Originally posted by DarkPony

    The criticism is very similar to my own experiences. If this would have been GW2's biggest advertising point, people would be crying "fail of the century" all over the internet. Good for the game that it is not.

    From what I saw of it the writing is awfully cliche and fit for 11 year olds. (Like I said in my reviewette: being called a friggin' hero in the first few minutes kind of makes picking the street urchin background at character creation obsolete). They should have taken a look at writing in games like Fallout, or even Swtor (though that was too late, probably) and do things more tongue in cheek, suggestive, appealing to intelligence and without *bore your brains out* concepts like absolute good or evil.  

    Next to this having no choice in conversations really doesn't cut it anymore: the exchanges are like watching poorly rehearsed street theater: non-interactive and artificial. After helping out someone I knew who was in a local gang and having a concluding conversation with him and the gang leader, I was suddenly summoned to the authorities, asking me if I had any information on them and their plans. And fair enough, my character starts blurting out everything he had overheard. I was like "WTF You ******* traitor I didn't want to say that!"

    Weakest link in GW2 for sure, this.

    (At least what I saw of it. Your mileage might vary).

    SWTOR had horrible dailogue and the story wasn't all that great and it was campy as well, so trying to hold GW2s feet to the flame over SWTOR?, doesn't really work for me.

    Also it wasn't a game built to play like a single player rpg going through hours of VO, sure story and dialogue are good to have but I would rather they concentrate on the things TOR didn't concentrate on, PVP, Gameplay, Graphics, Playability, Balaance, replayability, err.. PVE, server structure, and how fun the game is, and so far it looks alot better in that regard.

    GW2 isn't going to try to be an improved or Fixed version of SWTOR, a game which needs much improving.

  • DarkPonyDarkPony RotterdamPosts: 5,566Member

    Originally posted by goldiewilson

    *snipages*

    Most of that is beside the point as we are discussing the quality of the story in this game and you only focus on one example I mentioned and then you go out on a limb comparing other aspects.

  • UnlightUnlight Ottawa, ONPosts: 2,540Member
    The story is good but the telling is weak.  Many find the paperdoll cutscenes lackluster and the voice acting listless.  The stories themselves are engaging enough.  I'd read them if they were novelized and delivered in prose by a competent author, like Ree Soesbee, perhaps.  It's just the way they are being delivered that isn't so hot.
  • GamayunGamayun LjubljanaPosts: 73Member

    Originally posted by Unlight

    The story is good but the telling is weak.  Many find the paperdoll cutscenes lackluster and the voice acting listless.  The stories themselves are engaging enough.  I'd read them if they were novelized and delivered in prose by a competent author, like Ree Soesbee, perhaps.  It's just the way they are being delivered that isn't so hot.

     

    I've actually posted something like that several months back on these forums. The CS look static and lifeless, because when it comes to storytelling through a visual medium we're used to a far more dynamic approach with frequent changes of camera angles, zooms, movement...

    The static CS with fixed character and camera positions make even model animations and VO, both of which are decent, look awkward and stiff.  

    The switch between characters in the CS that happens by making one character disappear and another reapper in its place doesn't help with immersion either, same for the painterly background. It looks disconnected from the actual game - staged in front of a theater canvas. 

     

    I think most players just notice that there's something awkward about the CS, something is lacking to make them "properly" entertaining, but mostly can't pinpoint why that is. 

     

    Sadly, it's the non-cinematic design that ArenaNet chose for their conversation cinematics.

     

    If you compare the conversation CS with the other story CS, like the ones where you defeat the boss in the tutorial, or for example the cinematics in most concurrent single-player games, it becomes clear that the problem is not of technical nature (quality of models, animations...).

    Just the artistic choice is holding back the entire thing. 

  • EmwynEmwyn MoatshirePosts: 546Member

    I've been trying to wrap my head around this because I've been coming at it from the direction that the personal story IS the story of GW2. Apparently it isn't according to a dev on the forums.

    "Personal Story – the story of you

    Dungeons – the story of the iconics (Rytlock, Logan, Caithe, Eir and Zojja)

    Events – the story of the world"

    Because of that quote, I see the PS differently now and can accept it as a side issue that can be visited or not and has little to no effect on the outcome of the world, only to you personally. I get that now. However it raises the question, WHAT is the world story? Events? Hu? The world story is something I would have considered the overall plot. The purpose for us collectively being there in the world. Do the events unfold a story in some sort of sequence then? Most events I have come accross are already in progress, and reveal nothing except an opportunity to smack on some stuff. If you miss an event are you missing part of the story? Do these events build up to the elder dragons and this is the purpose for being heroes to save the world? Anyway in light of this, I don't see the personal story as the weakest link any longer, I see that as the DE's which should be the world story but seem nothing more then random opportunities to smack on things. Maybe I am trying to find a plot where there is none. I don't get it image

     

    the poster formerly known as melangel :P

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