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GW2 will mean the end of the subscription based MMO

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  • udonudon Durham, NCPosts: 1,768Member Uncommon

    I'm having a hard time seeing how GW2 in a couple years with 2-4 expansions and other premium content is going to look any different than LOTR's or DDO.  The only difference being that GW2 requires you to shell out cash up front for the original box (plus whatever all the expansions together cost at the time if you want to play current content) while LOTR's and DDO both let you play the game for some time before they want you to pay for the first expansion content.

     

    I'm not passing judgement on the quality of any those games, I'm just saying business model wise GW2 is pretty close to Turbines F2P model with a pay up front twist.

  • BaniscoBanisco LoquilandiaPosts: 240Member

    Originally posted by udon

    I'm having a hard time seeing how GW2 in a couple years with 2-4 expansions and other premium content is going to look any different than LOTR's or DDO.  The only difference being that GW2 requires you to shell out cash up front for the original box (plus whatever all the expansions together cost at the time if you want to play current content) while LOTR's and DDO both let you play the game for some time before they want you to pay for the first expansion content.

     

    I'm not passing judgement on the quality of any those games, I'm just saying business model wise GW2 is pretty close to Turbines F2P model with a pay up front twist.

    Every game makes you buy it, even those with monthly fees, also from the experience with GW the expasion packs will only add new content without making you pay for it if you dont want to play it. I dont see your point.

  • udonudon Durham, NCPosts: 1,768Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Banisco

    Originally posted by udon

    I'm having a hard time seeing how GW2 in a couple years with 2-4 expansions and other premium content is going to look any different than LOTR's or DDO.  The only difference being that GW2 requires you to shell out cash up front for the original box (plus whatever all the expansions together cost at the time if you want to play current content) while LOTR's and DDO both let you play the game for some time before they want you to pay for the first expansion content.

     

    I'm not passing judgement on the quality of any those games, I'm just saying business model wise GW2 is pretty close to Turbines F2P model with a pay up front twist.

    Every game makes you buy it, even those with monthly fees, also from the experience with GW the expasion packs will only add new content without making you pay for it if you dont want to play it. I dont see your point.

    I can play LOTR's and DDO for a long time (forever if I want to grind a lot) without shelling out cash and if the only thing I ever purchase on the RMT shop is exansion content others won't be at any more of a advantage to me.  

    My point is GW2 won't end subscription based MMO's anymore than those other F2P games did.  WOW, RIFT, SWTOR and others will still exist after GW2 just as well as before.  I know it hurts the fanboy ego to call GW2 a western F2P game but that really is what it is with the exception that you don't get to play it for free before you decide to shell out money.  That's not really what I would call progress.

  • AdalwulffAdalwulff Sacramento, CAPosts: 1,152Member

    $15 a month is nothing.

    There are still a few titles being released later this year or next, that have many of the features of GW2 and will be sub based. Not that Im bashing GW2, I love the game and already bought it.

    I have just enough time to play 2 MMOs if they make something really good, I dont mind paying the sub.

    image
  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,221Member Uncommon
    No way am I cancelling my subs.  I like what they deliver.  I'm curious if B2P will end up even being a success or if ANet will end up having to lower the price, get rid of it, or offer gems for the price.  No other F2P/cash shop game tries to bang you with an up front cost for nothing in return.  I think B2P will end up being a failure.
  • MephsterMephster Tyria, NJPosts: 1,188Member
    There is still room for both models but it seems many mmos have already made the jump from p2p to f2p.

    Grim Dawn, the next great action rpg!

    http://www.grimdawn.com/

  • hikaru77hikaru77 buenos airesPosts: 1,035Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by colddog04

    Originally posted by hikaru77

    Omg, the fanboys are really blind talking about Gw2. No it wont kill the p2p market, is not a wow killer, or swtor killer or even a rift killer. There is nothing new or innovative in gw2, is a mix of rift and warhammer online, mostly warhammer online and it doesnt have enough content like a p2p MMO have, even worse a F2P game like wrath of heroes have more pvp battlefields and game modes than gw2. The only good thing about gw2 is the WvWvW, but is literally a copy and paste of warhammer RvR, ¨the doorhammer golden age¨. The game still have a lot of problems, really a lot, but fanboys cant see that. Im really believe now that TSW will be better and more complex than gw2, after what i saw in the last beta, maybe i gonna give it a try.

    I'm pretty sure it is actually going to be a SWTOR killer. Along with TSW and TERA.



    You should check swtor.com forums or even the game chat. It will be hard to find positives comments about the gw2 beta, you will find a lot of ¨guild gates 2¨, or  ¨door wars¨, ¨is not a wow clone is a mythic clone¨ . believe me gw2 wont kill anything, and probably after a few more BW the QQing about the game will be even bigger.  People will play but they wont quit thier P2P MMO, and after the honey moon Month, people will get bored pretty fast without new content, and a B2P game like gw2, wont have updates and content updates like you can find in a p2p MMO.

  • sadeyxsadeyx leicesterPosts: 1,553Member

    Well in eve you need more than gold (isk)  you need skill training as well, which is time based and has a whole economy.   and just because you CAN buy a character with a titan for real money, doesnt mean you know how to fly one and doesnt mean your part of an alliance that can and will protect you.

    but then again, people will buy gold no matter what in games, so I've nothing against a legit system of obtaining gold, but I agree... this sets a bit of a precedent.  

    Whatever, it will be interesting to see how this plays out.   I guess judging by all the fanboyism going on Anet know they can do whatever they like.

     

    Either way, at this point in time, its not really about how the game plays, its more about how much your willing to pay for a game with a box price and a cash shop.

  • udonudon Durham, NCPosts: 1,768Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by hikaru77

    Originally posted by colddog04

    Originally posted by hikaru77

    Omg, the fanboys are really blind talking about Gw2. No it wont kill the p2p market, is not a wow killer, or swtor killer or even a rift killer. There is nothing new or innovative in gw2, is a mix of rift and warhammer online, mostly warhammer online and it doesnt have enough content like a p2p MMO have, even worse a F2P game like wrath of heroes have more pvp battlefields and game modes than gw2. The only good thing about gw2 is the WvWvW, but is literally a copy and paste of warhammer RvR, ¨the doorhammer golden age¨. The game still have a lot of problems, really a lot, but fanboys cant see that. Im really believe now that TSW will be better and more complex than gw2, after what i saw in the last beta, maybe i gonna give it a try.

    I'm pretty sure it is actually going to be a SWTOR killer. Along with TSW and TERA.



    You should check swtor.com forums or even the game chat. It will be hard to find positives comments about the gw2 beta, you will find a lot of ¨guild gates 2¨, or  ¨door wars¨, ¨is not a wow clone is a mythic clone¨ . believe me gw2 wont kill anything, and probably after a few more BW the QQing about the game will be even bigger.  People will play but they wont quit thier P2P MMO, and after the honey moon Month, people will get bored pretty fast without new content, and a B2P game like gw2, wont have updates and content updates like you can find in a p2p MMO.

    I predict there will be plenty of new content for GW2 either in the GEM store or for sale on the GW2 web site.  With B2P you are  buying the state of the game today, anything of substance is B2P as well. 

  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread PshPosts: 5,503Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by hikaru77

    Originally posted by colddog04

    Originally posted by hikaru77

    Omg, the fanboys are really blind talking about Gw2. No it wont kill the p2p market, is not a wow killer, or swtor killer or even a rift killer. There is nothing new or innovative in gw2, is a mix of rift and warhammer online, mostly warhammer online and it doesnt have enough content like a p2p MMO have, even worse a F2P game like wrath of heroes have more pvp battlefields and game modes than gw2. The only good thing about gw2 is the WvWvW, but is literally a copy and paste of warhammer RvR, ¨the doorhammer golden age¨. The game still have a lot of problems, really a lot, but fanboys cant see that. Im really believe now that TSW will be better and more complex than gw2, after what i saw in the last beta, maybe i gonna give it a try.

    I'm pretty sure it is actually going to be a SWTOR killer. Along with TSW and TERA.



    You should check swtor.com forums or even the game chat. It will be hard to find positives comments about the gw2 beta, you will find a lot of ¨guild gates 2¨, or  ¨door wars¨, ¨is not a wow clone is a mythic clone¨ . believe me gw2 wont kill anything, and probably after a few more BW the QQing about the game will be even bigger.  People will play but they wont quit thier P2P MMO, and after the honey moon Month, people will get bored pretty fast without new content, and a B2P game like gw2, wont have updates and content updates like you can find in a p2p MMO.

     

    SWTOR will exist. Saying "killer" isn't really the right word. But SWTOR will exist in a diminished capacity.

     

    Will SWTOR be able to pump out the proper amount of content for how much their sub is if it drops below 300k subs? I don't know, but I do know it's going to be a while before they turn a profit at those numbers and that EA may want to pull back on development to keep the ratio of development costs in line with subscription numbers.

     

    With GW2, TERA and TSW on the horizon, SWTOR may not die, but it will likely not be as good as it could have been next year. And the vicious downward spiral will continue.

  • EtherlothEtherloth marinPosts: 47Member

    Originally posted by Nevulus

    Originally posted by jackwu10

    so just curious, after the beta, will this game really reshape the future of mmo like how ppl claimed? 

     

     

    Simple answer: No.

    I enjoyed Beta, it seems like a great game, only time will tell if it will hold my attention, but it was not the second coming, it did not cure aids or the common cold, it did not spawn the birth of a theological figurehead.

    The original OP posted an opinion piece that is highly subjective, I'm sure MANY people feel differently.

     

    +1

     

    I also preordered and had some fun in the Beta Weekend, but the game is far, far from reshape anything.

     

    Is just a normal game with nothing that I have seen so far innovating the genre. Now please try to avoid fanboyisms here, if you dont agree just rebate my post with logic arguments.

     

    Graphics? While I appreciate the art direction, the graphics are just normal, not the best not the worst

    Gameplay? Just average as well, I have not seen anything special or that WOW!'ed me

    Dynamic events? Absolutely nothing new, just more rifts in different shape

    Personal quest? Uh? Ok. So? Uninteresting and old as gaming itself. Would take epic quests instead every day of the week.

    PvP? Ok I guess, nothing special. It didnt feel really right, but ok to spend some time hacking and slashing with friends.

    WvWvW? At this point and having 90% of the people with dream rigs suffering graphical issues (i.e. low framerates), and having heard that the GW2 engine is "bound to CPU and not to GPU" I do not expect this aspect of the game to shine as well, I hope I am wrong.

     

    The main point is, this game is nothing special, do not misunderstand me, I will be playing it because I already paid it and i think is an OK, fun game, but that's it, is not the next greatest thing as many have claimed and is neither the end of the subscription games in any shape.

     

    Lets keep it real folks...

     

    Flame on...

     

    Eth. 

  • doragon86doragon86 Boston, MAPosts: 589Member
    GW2 is not the MMO messiah. It's a fun game yes, but going into the game with the aforementioned state of mind will simply dissapoint you. So long as people are willing to pay, there will always be subscription based MMOs, bottom line. 

    "For the Angel of Death spread his wings on the blast,
    And breathed in the face of the foe as he passed:
    And the eyes of the sleepers waxed deadly and chill,
    And their hearts but once heaved, and for ever grew still!"
    ~Lord George Gordon Byron

  • OlgarkOlgark BostonPosts: 320Member Uncommon

    After playing GW1 when it was released due to the hype that received I will give GW2 a miss. I have read about it, watched the vids and I can't get any intrest built up over this game.

    WvW pvp and what are its goals to do this? Do you gain relics for your world like DAoC? Or is it just for epeen like so many other pvp battlegrounds ?

    Questing is the same run around kill xyz mobs or collect items in the game world nothing new there. Only one mmo is going to do something new in this repsect this year.

    I think I will stick with Eve Online and when its released The Secret World, I am not intrested in a pay to win based mmo thanks.

    And for those that think Eve is out dated one thing I will say Dust 514.

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  • PuraimaruPuraimaru MelbournePosts: 74Member

    Originally posted by Fadedbomb

    No, no GW2 will NOT be the "end of subscription based MMOs". They've got a PayToWin cash-shop, and those never go over well. (in case you're wondering, they have xp boosts & chest keys that can't be earned in-game. You're exchanging RL currency for ADVANTAGES over other people...not cool ANET.)

     

    I haven't seen a single thing in GW2 yet that I'd be willing to drop a subscription MMO for. Plus, if GW1 is any indication, Buy-To-Play doesn't keep enough content rolling long enough to keep most people interested. So :/

    I agree, its not the end of subscription based MMOs. But you are wrong sir, having more gold than someone doens't really matter in GW2. I mean sure they can buy more materials and craft better gear or buy better equips... but extra gold is not being put into the system. Besides jealousy there is no direct effect to the player in game. You can get keys in game, not only from cash shop. all boosts are worthless because they have little to no effect  as it doesn't boost exp from storyline quests/dynamic events/achievements etc and it doesn't affect another player.

  • Chrome1980Chrome1980 LondonPosts: 511Member
    Please stop making such claims as they usually back fire later on. No GW2 won't put an end to the sub model.
  • heartlessheartless Brooklyn, NYPosts: 4,993Member

    GW2 will not end the sub model completely. It may help facilitate the switch to B2P and will probably negatively impact certain games' subscription numbers but that's about it.

    The sub genre is dying on its own. The recent trends of MMOs going F2P is a good indication of that. If you think about it, there aren't that many strictly P2P games anymore. Most offer a F2P option of some sort. There are also some big name MMOs that are being released as F2P like Firefall and Planetside 2 for example. Also, TSW is being released with a cash shop right out of the gate, which to me is a strong indication that it will probably go F2P within the first 2 years.

    Everything is pointing towards a genre-wide switch to a F2P and maybe a B2P model. It won't happen overnight but within a few years, most new MMOs will not be released with a subscription.

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  • ariboersmaariboersma Yankton, SDPosts: 1,802Member

    Originally posted by Olgark

    After playing GW1 when it was released due to the hype that received I will give GW2 a miss. I have read about it, watched the vids and I can't get any intrest built up over this game.

    WvW pvp and what are its goals to do this? Do you gain relics for your world like DAoC? Or is it just for epeen like so many other pvp battlegrounds ?

    Questing is the same run around kill xyz mobs or collect items in the game world nothing new there. Only one mmo is going to do something new in this repsect this year.

    I think I will stick with Eve Online and when its released The Secret World, I am not intrested in a pay to win based mmo thanks.

    And for those that think Eve is out dated one thing I will say Dust 514.

    HAHAHAHAHA have fun with TSW. Trust me.. will not be worth the money.. hell I wouldn't play that game for free.. oh wait I already don't. Seriously though, if you cared about WvW and did research like you said you did you would know that the winner gets buffs.. the better you do the more buffs your server gets. There was a F2P MMO I played that was sorta like this and it doesn't make or break you but it is nice. DEs are nothing like questing.. whoever says that did not try actual events.. hearts are NOT DEs. Hearts are just there to bridge the gap for people used to traditional quests. Also pretty sure GW1 didn't get any hype.. in fact everything I heard about the game was negative and... well, looking back completely wrong.

     

    Another thing.. you seem to hint that TSW is the game that is changing questing.. I really want to know why you think that? Is it because you can only have 3 quests at once? or is it because the quests for the most part do not need you to even think you own a brain.. its merely follow the carrot until you reach the next spot and oh guess what.. we wont tell you why you just did that. 

    AND OMG I like how you are all gung ho over EVE and complain about GW2 being pay2win... it has the exact same model. Except that the items you buy from gems don;t actually make you win ANYTHING.  I really do hope you waste your money on TSW.. hell I even think you might be one of the small few of those that will enjoy the game based off your post here.

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  • CrunkJuice2CrunkJuice2 asdasd, INPosts: 568Member

    " Along with TSW and TERA."

     

    except that,if you look up korean mmos.which is what Tera is,i doubt many people will want to play gw2 over it

     

    american mmos,yeah.....casuals r us

     

    korean mmos,i doubt your average casual will last a day in one.and this is coming from someone who played korean mmos before i started playing american ones

    its kinda funny i actually saw people in swtor general chat on the fleet in my server talking about tera.will be funny when they dont even play it over a day when they relize that korean mmos arent like your average casual mmo

     

     

  • Angier2758Angier2758 Mt. Prospect, ILPosts: 1,011Member
    Probably won't.
  • EquintinEquintin st-jean sur richelieu, QCPosts: 131Member
    I see OP didnt try TERA

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  • MothanosMothanos ArnhemPosts: 1,860Member Uncommon

    People that bash GW2 but like the mmo fantasy genres should ask themselves why the fu.. am i playing mmo's ?

    You cannot reinvent the wheels anymore at this stage in time, you can only improve the edges.

    And GW2 is doing that, bashing this game with all that crap that we bought the last 7 years is a been way to long for a decent mmo to appear and compete with games like WoW / Aion / SWTOR / ETC / ETC.

     

    Now will GW2 be the holy grail ? The perfect mmo ever ? Will it kill WoW on launch day ? offcourse not ^^ 

    But it will be something ALOT of people hunger for after all the damn failures we had.

    And it might grow to WoW standards in terms of online players.

     

     

  • ariboersmaariboersma Yankton, SDPosts: 1,802Member

    Originally posted by CrunkJuice2

    " Along with TSW and TERA."

     

    except that,if you look up korean mmos.which is what Tera is,i doubt many people will want to play gw2 over it

     

    american mmos,yeah.....casuals r us

     

    korean mmos,i doubt your average casual will last a day in one.and this is coming from someone who played korean mmos before i started playing american ones

    its kinda funny i actually saw people in swtor general chat on the fleet in my server talking about tera.will be funny when they dont even play it over a day when they relize that korean mmos arent like your average casual mmo

    it has nothing to do with casual, my first MMO was Lineage 2 so korean background as well.  I remember clearly how it took me 2 weeks of 14 hrs a day grinding to get from lvl 50 to 51. Tera was way easier to play than GW2 and GW2 was way more fun(I died only once on my way to lvl 21, in GW2 I died probably 10 times of my own mistakes that weren't bugs or tune issues). The animation locks in Tera just have no place at all in an MMO and the FPS style fighting(no mouse) is horrid if you actually use all of your abilities but to rarely to keybind every single one. The difference between korean and western MMOs are that one is hard core and one isnt.. its that grinding is more beneficial and that quests have a story. KOrean MMOs are dubbed grind fests for a reason. It was culture shock when I went from L2 to WoW and tbh I am still glad even though WoW has turned into such a pile of sh!t.

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  • MonorojoMonorojo San Diego, CAPosts: 411Member
    It really is amazing seeing these iincredibly arrogant fans telling the rest of us how revolutionary Guild Wars 2 is. The difference is, now after the beta weekend, we all actually know that the game is anything but.
  • CelciusCelcius Posts: 1,001Member Uncommon

    It really is going to be hard to justify paying 15$ a month after GW2 comes out. The game rivals all the other big games in terms of content and has no monthly fee....can't go wrong there, really. Regardless of if you like it or not, it will sell like hot cakes and they will make a ton of money off it. (Just like the original GW, i mean...they sold 7 million copies i believe and went from a like 7 man dev team to 250+ man dev team, so they clearly made money) This money will be used to create expansions and content patches to further bring new and old players into the game who continue to pay money for cash shop stuff as well as the expansions.

    A few months from now when GW2 is out it will be hard to justify an MMO charging a sub. 

  • JakardJakard 98390, WAPosts: 415Member

    Here's the deal.

    Guild Wars 2 isn't the first online RPG with no subscription fees. In fact, you could argue that free to play is all the rage right now. What about the Buy to Play model? Well, on May 15th, a "likely" better game will be released upon the world that uses this same model. But let me save you the suspense. The subscription model isn't going anywhere. Quite frankly, we don't even know how Anet will support the game post-launch. If they do a poor job with updates and such, perhaps one could argue that it's the end of the "Buy to Play" model as we know it. At the end of the day though, there'll be room for both and both can be justified. But people want to pretend that Guild Wars 2 is the 2nd coming of Jesus. It's not. Not even close. I think it'll be good but there is some rabid, illogical thinking in a lot of what I'm seeing.

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