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World of Warcraft: Putting the War Back in Warcraft - Part 2

2

Comments

  • palulalulapalulalula vukovarPosts: 655Member

    Originally posted by sithangel1

    I am wondering how much life the game has in it. Skill counts for almost nothing as long as you have the latest gear. Pandas and Pokemon ain't gonna save it. Cata erked most players to the point of 850k subs being cancelled, and yet they still won't admit the Fail of it. World PvP dungeon and side xp bonus is not a new concept. Most games have been doing then for years, and in the case of Anarchy Online, over a decade. You want to shake it up, scrap the current incarnation of the world and Pandaria and get back to the original heart of the game. Go back to the lore and not the grind of boss after boss.

     

    Bla bla bla, still 11 millions and number is rising again after so many failed wanna be mmorpg's. Let me guess--horrible weekend in gw2 and you are just so sad that you need  old good wow spiting

  • deniterdeniter LappeenrantaPosts: 802Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by palulalula



    Originally posted by sithangel1



    I am wondering how much life the game has in it. Skill counts for almost nothing as long as you have the latest gear. Pandas and Pokemon ain't gonna save it. Cata erked most players to the point of 850k subs being cancelled, and yet they still won't admit the Fail of it. World PvP dungeon and side xp bonus is not a new concept. Most games have been doing then for years, and in the case of Anarchy Online, over a decade. You want to shake it up, scrap the current incarnation of the world and Pandaria and get back to the original heart of the game. Go back to the lore and not the grind of boss after boss.





     

    Bla bla bla, still 11 millions and number is rising again after so many failed wanna be mmorpg's. Let me guess--horrible weekend in gw2 and you are just so sad that you need  old good wow spiting



    Time to get real:

    "Their marketing strategies are actually quite brilliant and I admire it from a business perspective. I've discussed Blizzard's reputation management in the past and this is just another great example: It's all about wording and how they perceive the numbers. =] They've lead the entire world to believe that they have 11.5 million active subscribers (thinking "players"), when in fact it was really half that amount (possibly less than half.)"

    http://daeity.blogspot.com/2010/08/blizzards-active-subscription-numbers.html

     

  • lavosslayerlavosslayer Jacksonville, FLPosts: 55Member

    Originally posted by palulalula



    Originally posted by sithangel1



    I am wondering how much life the game has in it. Skill counts for almost nothing as long as you have the latest gear. Pandas and Pokemon ain't gonna save it. Cata erked most players to the point of 850k subs being cancelled, and yet they still won't admit the Fail of it. World PvP dungeon and side xp bonus is not a new concept. Most games have been doing then for years, and in the case of Anarchy Online, over a decade. You want to shake it up, scrap the current incarnation of the world and Pandaria and get back to the original heart of the game. Go back to the lore and not the grind of boss after boss.





     

    Bla bla bla, still 11 millions and number is rising again after so many failed wanna be mmorpg's. Let me guess--horrible weekend in gw2 and you are just so sad that you need  old good wow spiting




     

    How can any mmorpg be a "wanna be"? Either it is one or it isn't, there is no in-between. The only thing you can truly use to determine how good an MMORPG is, would be whether it is successful or not. If it's still in existance and making money then in many ways all MMORPGs out there right now are successful. They might not have what any single person is looking for in a game, but they still have fans and still make money. 

    World of Warcraft might be making money and have a rediculous number of subs still, but don't forget how many territories worldwide that have access to it. Those numbers are on a global scale and make it very hard for you or anyone to truly compare them to other AAA title MMORPGs.

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  • ChrisboxChrisbox Monroe, NJPosts: 1,707Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by palulalula



    Originally posted by ShakyMo



    Doesnt matter what they do. 2 factions, engine that doesn't like lots of players on screen, and massively lob sided existing servers. They should leave pvp to gw2 and ps2 and concentrate on pve imo.





     

    lol gw2!!!! Gw2 is so poor compared to wow and it will be never on top .WOW pvp is 1000 times better then gw2  crapy combat system




     

    LMAO please you know nothing about pvp.  GW2 pvp takes about 100 times more skill than WoW's.

    Played-Everything
    Playing-FFXIV:ARR

  • AbdarAbdar Thunder Bay, ONPosts: 400Member Uncommon
    If they can bring back real open world pvp I'm in. Thats where true pvp is at in my mind.
  • NetspookNetspook OsloPosts: 1,503Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by deniter

    Originally posted by palulalula



    Originally posted by sithangel1



    I am wondering how much life the game has in it. Skill counts for almost nothing as long as you have the latest gear. Pandas and Pokemon ain't gonna save it. Cata erked most players to the point of 850k subs being cancelled, and yet they still won't admit the Fail of it. World PvP dungeon and side xp bonus is not a new concept. Most games have been doing then for years, and in the case of Anarchy Online, over a decade. You want to shake it up, scrap the current incarnation of the world and Pandaria and get back to the original heart of the game. Go back to the lore and not the grind of boss after boss.





     

    Bla bla bla, still 11 millions and number is rising again after so many failed wanna be mmorpg's. Let me guess--horrible weekend in gw2 and you are just so sad that you need  old good wow spiting



    Time to get real:

    "Their marketing strategies are actually quite brilliant and I admire it from a business perspective. I've discussed Blizzard's reputation management in the past and this is just another great example: It's all about wording and how they perceive the numbers. =] They've lead the entire world to believe that they have 11.5 million active subscribers (thinking "players"), when in fact it was really half that amount (possibly less than half.)"

    http://daeity.blogspot.com/2010/08/blizzards-active-subscription-numbers.html

     

     

    I don't know what's wrong with you wow bashers on these forums, but there's no limit to the amount of retarded anti-propaganda you keep spewing, appearently.

    Time to get real? Right back at you.

    If a company like Blizzard had lied like that, claiming they had at least twice as many subscribers/players than they actually had at peak, this would beyond doubt have been an illegal way to boost their stock values, and you can be absolutely certain they've been dragged to court facing fraud charges if that was true.

  • TheHavokTheHavok San Jose, CAPosts: 2,398Member Uncommon







    Originally posted by Chrisbox




















    Originally posted by palulalula












































    Originally posted by ShakyMo































    Doesnt matter what they do. 2 factions, engine that doesn't like lots of players on screen, and massively lob sided existing servers. They should leave pvp to gw2 and ps2 and concentrate on pve imo.















































     





























    lol gw2!!!! Gw2 is so poor compared to wow and it will be never on top .WOW pvp is 1000 times better then gw2  crapy combat system














































     













    LMAO please you know nothing about pvp.  GW2 pvp takes about 100 times more skill than WoW's.






















     




    You sound foolish talking about something you do not know.  Here is a screen shot of a WoW healer's ui.  53 keybinds.  That doesn't count the macros he has for those multiple keybinds.  This is a top tier player and most top tier players (2700 elo in arena) have similar amount of keybinds.  Sure bad players will not have this many keybinds - but they are bad for a reason.




    Now are you trying to tell me that WoW's pvp doesn't take skill?

    Edit: I'm excited about GW2 and i'm a fan - not bashing the game.  I just hate when people talk about stuff they have no idea about.









     




     

  • NetspookNetspook OsloPosts: 1,503Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by TheHavok



    Originally posted by Chrisbox








    Originally posted by palulalula




















    Originally posted by ShakyMo















    Doesnt matter what they do. 2 factions, engine that doesn't like lots of players on screen, and massively lob sided existing servers. They should leave pvp to gw2 and ps2 and concentrate on pve imo.























     













    lol gw2!!!! Gw2 is so poor compared to wow and it will be never on top .WOW pvp is 1000 times better then gw2  crapy combat system






















     





    LMAO please you know nothing about pvp.  GW2 pvp takes about 100 times more skill than WoW's.










     

    You sound foolish talking about something you do not know.  Here is a screen shot of a WoW healer's ui.  53 keybinds.  That doesn't count the macros he has for those multiple keybinds.  This is a top tier player and most top tier players (2700 elo in arena) have similar amount of keybinds.  Sure bad players will not have this many keybinds - but they are bad for a reason.

    Now are you trying to tell me that WoW's pvp doesn't take skill?

     

    So, any wow player with less than 53 keybinds are bad players? Lol...

  • TheHavokTheHavok San Jose, CAPosts: 2,398Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Netspook

    Originally posted by TheHavok



    Originally posted by Chrisbox








    Originally posted by palulalula




















    Originally posted by ShakyMo















    Doesnt matter what they do. 2 factions, engine that doesn't like lots of players on screen, and massively lob sided existing servers. They should leave pvp to gw2 and ps2 and concentrate on pve imo.























     













    lol gw2!!!! Gw2 is so poor compared to wow and it will be never on top .WOW pvp is 1000 times better then gw2  crapy combat system






















     





    LMAO please you know nothing about pvp.  GW2 pvp takes about 100 times more skill than WoW's.










     

    You sound foolish talking about something you do not know.  Here is a screen shot of a WoW healer's ui.  53 keybinds.  That doesn't count the macros he has for those multiple keybinds.  This is a top tier player and most top tier players (2700 elo in arena) have similar amount of keybinds.  Sure bad players will not have this many keybinds - but they are bad for a reason.

    Now are you trying to tell me that WoW's pvp doesn't take skill?

     

    So, any wow player with less than 53 keybinds are bad players? Lol...

    No, my point is there is a high skill cap in WoW and because of this, really good pvp players have a lot of keybindings.  The number 53 is an example.  You clearly did not understand that.

  • BarCrowBarCrow Tampa, FLPosts: 2,212Member

    Originally posted by Netspook

    Originally posted by TheHavok



    Originally posted by Chrisbox








    Originally posted by palulalula




















    Originally posted by ShakyMo















    Doesnt matter what they do. 2 factions, engine that doesn't like lots of players on screen, and massively lob sided existing servers. They should leave pvp to gw2 and ps2 and concentrate on pve imo.























     













    lol gw2!!!! Gw2 is so poor compared to wow and it will be never on top .WOW pvp is 1000 times better then gw2  crapy combat system






















     





    LMAO please you know nothing about pvp.  GW2 pvp takes about 100 times more skill than WoW's.










     

    You sound foolish talking about something you do not know.  Here is a screen shot of a WoW healer's ui.  53 keybinds.  That doesn't count the macros he has for those multiple keybinds.  This is a top tier player and most top tier players (2700 elo in arena) have similar amount of keybinds.  Sure bad players will not have this many keybinds - but they are bad for a reason.

    Now are you trying to tell me that WoW's pvp doesn't take skill?

     

    So, any wow player with less than 53 keybinds are bad players? Lol...

    Yeah..i wouldn't call them bad players ..just players. People that like to play a game without spending 100 hours crunching numbers and making flowcharts of every combat scenario for every raid/dungeon. Then another 50 hours creating macros.....then...**huff**  **puff**...i'm tired just talking about it..lol.

    Oh well..I guess that's just fun for some people.

  • OnomicOnomic TønsbergPosts: 196Member

    Wow was an awsome game until they started to dumb it down, but that personal preferance.

    53 key binds is quite impressive to manage, way more then i will ever do but its a skill im not interested in the slightest.

    fps games take skill but you usaly click 8 buttons half of em are the move keys. left,right,up,down,left mouse, right mouse, ctrl/shift to duck. Thats a skill system im way more interested in then mastering my keyboard.

    The macro system in wow is a smal cheat, its such an advantage for those that know about it compared to those that has no clue about it.

    Like target macro, you can set a macro to switch target to the enemy healer in arena match and cc em with one click of a button. A hugh advantage compared to look around and target em with mouse then use skill.

  • ScalebaneScalebane La Junta, COPosts: 2,225Member

    WoW will continue to do awesome like they do every year, even with all the people that wish it dead lol.   Even losing some subs they still make money because Blizzard is just awesome like that.

     

    i bet MOP will sell millions just as fast as every other xpac they have released :)

    image

    "The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand."
    - Lewis Thomas

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    I don't care if people use 53 keybinds, its still boring old grind for tokens in small box pvp. You can't have good outdoor pvp with 2 factions it just doesn't work you need 3 or 4 or none and go gvg.

    Which everway you put it the wow/eq/rift/eq2/swtor style mmos are raiding orientated games with minimal tacked on pvp.

    Wow is good at what it does, casual friendly leveling, instanced dungeons and raids. It's always been an average at best pvp game, better than the wow clones but not a patch on games designed with pvp in mind like daoc, eve & planetside.
  • AutemOxAutemOx Fullerton, CAPosts: 1,704Member
    I like all the love planetside is getting in the comments of this article <3

    Play as your fav retro characters: cnd-online.net. My site: www.lysle.net. Blog: creatingaworld.blogspot.com.

  • ComafComaf Chicago, ILPosts: 1,154Member Common

    In 2004 when a lot of us left Dark Age of Camelot for WoW, we were promised quite a bit of WAR in Warcraft.  The vey fact they are  a 2 faction game is a huge handicap.  They could always add a third faction and get some real castle siege warfare on - but that's just  a dream, alas, just a dream.  I did giggle a bit about the "world" pvp dungeon.  Anyone who played DAoC had to, especially since we have Darkness Falls which fits 3 factions of pvp into its design. 

     

    Anyway....

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  • TheHavokTheHavok San Jose, CAPosts: 2,398Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Onomic

    Wow was an awsome game until they started to dumb it down, but that personal preferance.

    53 key binds is quite impressive to manage, way more then i will ever do but its a skill im not interested in the slightest.

    fps games take skill but you usaly click 8 buttons half of em are the move keys. left,right,up,down,left mouse, right mouse, ctrl/shift to duck. Thats a skill system im way more interested in then mastering my keyboard.

    The macro system in wow is a smal cheat, its such an advantage for those that know about it compared to those that has no clue about it.

    Like target macro, you can set a macro to switch target to the enemy healer in arena match and cc em with one click of a button. A hugh advantage compared to look around and target em with mouse then use skill.

    The macro system in WoW has its fair share of lovers and haters but I wouldn't call it a cheat.  In TBC, it was definitely different, where the macro system was somewhat broken and players could press a single button to do a huge array of commands that would be dictated by the situation they were in (ex: healer uses macro to find if any team member was CC'd, then instantly dispel that CC).  But Blizz fixed the macro system to get rid of these 1-button win capabilites.

    The system is there and really picks up the pace of pvp.  Players know to work with it and around it.  For example, healers know that they are always going to be  prime target for CC and on every caster's focus bar (focus bar is like a player's second target bar).  This makes a lot of caster create macros to CC their focus target.  So, healers take extra precaution to line of sight the opposing casters (and DPS in general) and only pop out when need be, with their own mix of CC and CC-interupt abilities at hand.

    It really is a pretty complex system of maintaining defensive cooldowns, controlling burst, CC'ing, LOSing, mana/resource efficiency, and many other factors. 

    Of course the game still has to cater to a PvE crowd so imbalances arise all the time, but WoW's pvp is at a point where every class is viable and multiple strategies and comps arise all the time.

  • niceguy3978niceguy3978 Gainesville, FLPosts: 2,000Member
    I'm tired, so don't really feel like reading through 40 posts to see if this has been covered, but here goes.  What they really need to figure out is how to have open world pvp be meaningful on servers where one side outnumbers the other 2, 3, or even 4 to 1.  Outside of instancing, which makes it no longer open world, how do you have open world pvp with desirable objectives under these conditions?
  • LukainLukain WestmeadPosts: 593Member

    WOW is not & never will be a PVP game , it became the biggest MMO ever released  for its PVE & storie line  if it had 0 PVP in it it would still be the biggest MMO ever  if you wan't PVP play GW & GW2  thats what there made for  , I don't play WOW for its PvP  & if they released a PVP only expansion it will be the lowest selling of all wow expansions  imho !!

     

    GW was such a great PVP game because the developers  wanted to make a PVP game  not a PVE/PVP game  which I think just can't be done right  , GM is not gonna Make a Buick that can be a boat too? so why do a game thats ment to be 2 things .

     

    If blizzard wan't to make a WOW pvp title make a new one ..

     

     

     

     

  • SeriousblackSeriousblack Dardenne Prairie, MOPosts: 9Member

    Originally posted by Mors.Magne

    The only game that I think is better than WoW is Eve Online - most MMORPGs are WoW clones, and WoW is the biggest one.

     

    Blizzard should task one dev, who likes world PvP, to sit quietly on his own - in a coffee shop or something - an figure out how to re-introduce world PvP back into WoW.

    I'm sure it can be done - but Blizzard needs to keep loud mouth people, who don't really know what they are talking about, well out of the decision making process.

    'Team discussions' could easily kill WoW totally, because all you get are the loud people talking.

     

    Keep PR / advertising / accountants WELL AWAY from WoW, and then WoW might have a good future once again.




     

    Good luck with that. It's a business. PR/ advertising/ accountants are essential.

  • MMartianMMartian Austin, TXPosts: 46Member

    PvP in general has destroyed MMORPGS.

    By this I mean that the vast majority of subscribers are not interested in games where the emphasis is PvP. But having said that most do like the option to PvP if they choose.

    WoW has through the competition server and game mechanics to allow them to generally tweak the PvP and PvE balance seperately have found the right balance between PvP and PvE in their game. The current allocation of development resources between PvP and PvE matches the subscriber interest.

    As to the recent hype by the PvP crowed about "Open World PvP" in reference to many games, it does not fit into many of the MMORPGs where these people are demanding it so strongly. WoW is sort of one of those games. If open world PvP is missing in WoW on the PvP servers, then I would agree that some work may need to be done by WoW development. But any changes to promote that should not be translated to the PvE servers. My experience ever since classic WoW has been that most that try to engage in "Open World PvP" are mostly interested in greifing the play of low level characters in an area. While this is sort of to be expected on a PvP server, it is very frustrating to those that have no interest in PvP and/or are not high enough level to do anything about the greifers on PvE servers where people play to avoid those situations.

  • erikk3189erikk3189 New York City, NYPosts: 306Member

    I started making all the reasons why this game sucks but I won't waste my time. But I will add this the game has been watered down to the point only Asian audiences like it as well as the pre-school kids of the USA.

    If you still play this game or defend it then you're as bad as the game itself. Either that or you're what blizzard is aiming at, prerschool  diapered kids who are influenced easily.

    GAGA!!

  • Thoth-AmonThoth-Amon edinburghPosts: 91Member
    they need to put the WOW back in, never mind the WAR! theyve been regurgitating the same stuff for years now. its old. innovate or die.
  • raven222raven222 athensPosts: 88Member

    I have been a great wow fun and long term player among other games.

    But honestly are there people that still believe wow needs skill and is not all about gear.

    All u need in wow is top gear and then u can dance around laughing at people as they fail.

    I got resurrected last month , got my warlock to level 85 , started grinding gear then quit in a few weeks time.

    Is this ur goal more and more gear , more and more grind cause grind it is , u grind raids and dungeons , grind arenas and bgs , then most wow players claim all other games are grinders but wow is not.

    I am having the feeling that blizzard gets to u , like smoking malboro for 25 years does , in the end u are so blind that anything they feed u , u consider it to be new and fresh even if it is the same old same old.

    I am glad new games are coming , with some new ideas .

    Give us the original AV where u could fight it for days , logging the next day to the same av and i will go back.

    Today AV is a race to last boss , lasts like 10 minutes , is this PVP or a PVE race, games end and the scores shows 0 player kills for most players great PVP.

    Just a few thoughts

     

  • EmwynEmwyn MoatshirePosts: 546Member
    A pvp dungeon would be interesting. I wonder what the player base would think of that? Though I  think it would be even more interesting to put the entire next tier into a whole series of pvp dungeons.

    the poster formerly known as melangel :P

  • Mors.MagneMors.Magne LondonPosts: 1,420Member

    Originally posted by Netspook

    Originally posted by Mors.Magne

    The only game that I think is better than WoW is Eve Online - most MMORPGs are WoW clones, and WoW is the biggest one.

     

    Blizzard should task one dev, who likes world PvP, to sit quietly on his own - in a coffee shop or something - an figure out how to re-introduce world PvP back into WoW.

    I'm sure it can be done - but Blizzard needs to keep loud mouth people, who don't really know what they are talking about, well out of the decision making process.

    'Team discussions' could easily kill WoW totally, because all you get are the loud people talking.

     

    Keep PR / advertising / accountants WELL AWAY from WoW, and then WoW might have a good future once again.

     

    So, you wanna let one single person decide the future of WoW, and the only requirement is that this person likes world PvP?

    Thankfully, Blizzard is not that stupid.


     

    A couple of weeks ago a study showed that if you want a complex problem solved it's better to have one competent person focusing on it.

    'Team decision making' is perfect for pub quizzes when the answers are obvious. However, when questions get more difficult, only the loudest people tend to answer up. The best solutions are normally drowned out.

    For example, Albert Einstien pretty much invented the atom bomb - it wasn't really that much of a team effort.

    With regard to Blizzard, I can easily imagine a confident PR guy TELLING a dev what to do. I work in PR myself, so I have an insight into this.

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