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Your right. it isn't pay to win. It's....

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  • niceguy3978niceguy3978 Gainesville, FLPosts: 2,000Member

    Originally posted by Torqia

    Random drop.. Its basicly just a drop item that you cant acces without gems bought in the shop.

    Ofc you can trade gems from others but somebody has to buy them..

    Its actualy a pretty normal use of cash shop.. Some games sell keys, Anet sells gems.. same deal. 

    Bah, I should have read through the posts before posting what a dozen other people have said.  I do have a question though, maybe someone can pay close attention and give out some info.  Do the keys drop at a similar rate to the boxes?  Could perhaps boxes dropping more frequently than keys be a carrot for spending in the cs?  

  • TwoThreeFourTwoThreeFour Virginia, VAPosts: 2,131Member

    Originally posted by ebonized

    Not only do the keys drop (as others have said), but you can use in-game money to buy gems, which can buy the keys. I don't really see any downside

    Since you don't see any downside, then let me try to make you see one:

     

    It is imperative that the box and key droprates are designed such that the keys drop less often than the boxes in order to make it "convenient" to buy the keys with gems. So far, I think you'll have to agree. Once real money get involved when the real servers go live, the market will quickly adjust (since the auctions are cross-server) such that it will take far more than 1 hour of regular gold grind to get the equivalent of 1 hour real work in gems.

     

    Gems will always be attractive for non-gemmers and one important factor for how much gold they would have to pay to get some gems, will be very dependant on how many interesting things (interesting for the gemmers) can be bought with gold.

     

    A likely scenario for what will happen is: you get far more boxes than keys and the gem costs so much gold that you would think twice before spending your gold to buy keys to open the boxes. The box drops will though remain as an annoying reminder of the item mall :).

  • Atlan99Atlan99 Calgary, ABPosts: 1,323Member

    Originally posted by niceguy3978

    Originally posted by Torqia

    Random drop.. Its basicly just a drop item that you cant acces without gems bought in the shop.

    Ofc you can trade gems from others but somebody has to buy them..

    Its actualy a pretty normal use of cash shop.. Some games sell keys, Anet sells gems.. same deal. 

    Bah, I should have read through the posts before posting what a dozen other people have said.  I do have a question though, maybe someone can pay close attention and give out some info.  Do the keys drop at a similar rate to the boxes?  Could perhaps boxes dropping more frequently than keys be a carrot for spending in the cs?  

    For me yes.

    Obviously it is designed this way. If it wasn't, then what would be the point of even having them in the game to begin with. It will probably have that scratch ticket effect on some people.

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairPosts: 5,587Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

    Originally posted by ebonized

    Not only do the keys drop (as others have said), but you can use in-game money to buy gems, which can buy the keys. I don't really see any downside

    Since you don't see any downside, then let me try to make you see one:

     

    It is imperative that the box and key droprates are designed such that the keys drop less often than the boxes in order to make it "convenient" to buy the keys with gems. So far, I think you'll have to agree. Once real money get involved when the real servers go live, the market will quickly adjust (since the auctions are cross-server) such that it will take far more than 1 hour of regular gold grind to get the equivalent of 1 hour real work in gems.

     

    Gems will always be attractive for non-gemmers and one important factor for how much gold they would have to pay to get some gems, will be very dependant on how many interesting things (interesting for the gemmers) can be bought with gold.

     

    A likely scenario for what will happen is: you get far more boxes than keys and the gem costs so much gold that you would think twice before spending your gold to buy keys to open the boxes. The box drops will though remain as an annoying reminder of the item mall :).

    I agree with what you say, except I doubt the boxes will be full of useless junk. That makes it too easy to just vendor them. I'm willing to bet they will be a type of lottery system. Random stuff. Some valuable, some not. But always enough to make you think twice about not getting a key.

  • johnbowjohnbow SingaporePosts: 6Member

    While it is true that since keys can be looted and bought off, it doesnt really matter, and you don't have to pay to win.

    But lets consider that because gems can be used to purchase keys, and keys can be traded/sold for in-game currency, it is possible to pay for advantage. How? By injecting real-life currency into the cash shop to purchase in-game valuable items, and then selling them off for in-game currency. Basically RMT, but disguised and controlled by the company.

    Of course if having lots of in-game currency in the game does not translate to advantage(for example, there isn't any enormous money sinks, or quality gear cannot be traded), then it doesn't matter. If however, having lots of in-game currency does offer an advantage, then a player who is willing to do so can pay to win, however economical it is.

    edit: to add on, personally I dislike cash shops. But if at the end of the day, even if it offers an advantage to cash-shoppers,

    1) If the advantage is not astronomical, meaning I can achieve the same with reasonable effort, I'm alright with it.

    2)If the economical sense of cash-shopping is low enough to discourage cash-shopping for that reason, I'm alright with it.

    3)If having lots of in-game currency does not offer any distinct and considerable advantage, for example need lots of money to be able to buy and craft the best items, or if consumables are expensive relative the to rate of earning money by normal means, or offer some sort of edge in PvP(making siege weapons very expensive, paying for NPC guards etc), I'm also fine with it.

  • Calintz333Calintz333 BergenPosts: 1,189Member

    Originally posted by Emwyn

    Originally posted by Distopia

    I was under the impression the cash shop was not in this BWE, was that impression wrong? TO add to that I was also under the impression those keys drop in game.



    The cash shop is in Distopia. There's a button in the top left to enter the cash shop. You can view things without entering any details. So far things are as previously leaked minus the  mystery boxes themselves, the megaphone and I really don't see any boosters at all unless I'm missing something?

    The keys do drop, see my above post.

    So there are no boosts what so ever in the cash shop? I wish I could see it for myself because I find that hard to believe.

     

    No karma boosts?

    exp boosts?

    drop rate boosts?

    crafting boosts?

     

    I would be extremely shocked if Anet actaully made things fair and didn't add any of these to the game.

     

  • Atlan99Atlan99 Calgary, ABPosts: 1,323Member

    Originally posted by Calintz333

    Originally posted by Emwyn

    Originally posted by Distopia

    I was under the impression the cash shop was not in this BWE, was that impression wrong? TO add to that I was also under the impression those keys drop in game.



    The cash shop is in Distopia. There's a button in the top left to enter the cash shop. You can view things without entering any details. So far things are as previously leaked minus the  mystery boxes themselves, the megaphone and I really don't see any boosters at all unless I'm missing something?

    The keys do drop, see my above post.

    So there are no boosts what so ever in the cash shop? I wish I could see it for myself because I find that hard to believe.

     

    No karma boosts?

    exp boosts?

    drop rate boosts?

    crafting boosts?

     

    I would be extremely shocked if Anet actaully made things fair and didn't add any of these to the game.

     

    They are still there, though I didn't notice a drop rate boost. Might be there, might not be.

    You can add 10% Defense Boost to that list as well.

  • Fed1Fed1 Roaburg, VAPosts: 167Member

    Originally posted by Calintz333

    Originally posted by Emwyn

    Originally posted by Distopia

    I was under the impression the cash shop was not in this BWE, was that impression wrong? TO add to that I was also under the impression those keys drop in game.



    The cash shop is in Distopia. There's a button in the top left to enter the cash shop. You can view things without entering any details. So far things are as previously leaked minus the  mystery boxes themselves, the megaphone and I really don't see any boosters at all unless I'm missing something?

    The keys do drop, see my above post.

    So there are no boosts what so ever in the cash shop? I wish I could see it for myself because I find that hard to believe.

     

    No karma boosts?

    exp boosts?

    drop rate boosts?

    crafting boosts?

     

    I would be extremely shocked if Anet actaully made things fair and didn't add any of these to the game.

     

     

    Agree - and if there are no incentives to buy, how will they make money to pay for the infrastructure?

    Anet is a for-profit company correct?

     

  • Calintz333Calintz333 BergenPosts: 1,189Member

    Originally posted by Fed1

    Originally posted by Calintz333

    Originally posted by Emwyn

    Originally posted by Distopia

    I was under the impression the cash shop was not in this BWE, was that impression wrong? TO add to that I was also under the impression those keys drop in game.



    The cash shop is in Distopia. There's a button in the top left to enter the cash shop. You can view things without entering any details. So far things are as previously leaked minus the  mystery boxes themselves, the megaphone and I really don't see any boosters at all unless I'm missing something?

    The keys do drop, see my above post.

    So there are no boosts what so ever in the cash shop? I wish I could see it for myself because I find that hard to believe.

     

    No karma boosts?

    exp boosts?

    drop rate boosts?

    crafting boosts?

     

    I would be extremely shocked if Anet actaully made things fair and didn't add any of these to the game.

     

     

    Agree - and if there are no incentives to buy, how will they make money to pay for the infrastructure?

    Anet is a for-profit company correct?

     

    So they did just fine with GW1 by selling us CONTENT and Cosmetics  not stat boosting  items. But they can't do that same thing here and get by can they?

     

    What makes them any different than all the other free to play companies now?

  • ArChWindArChWind Some Place, WIPosts: 617Member Uncommon

    I am just wondering something and not by any means trolling.

     


    SOE has a cash shop and sells Smed bucks in game cards for 15 dollars. You can go to any retailer that carries these cards and buy one, go to the game and sell them for platinum which you can now bid in an auction channel on what is called SLR (Selling Loot Rights) to BOE (Bind On Equip) items.


     

    Does this game have BOE items? Does it sell these kind of cards?

     

    If the answer is yes then consider it a PAY to Win because is REALLY is.

  • CetraCetra SingaporePosts: 354Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Torqia

    Its Pay to not be annoyed...

    So you need to pay real money to open lockboxes.... sigh

    Yes that isnt pay to win but if you dont pay, your gonna feel like you cant get the items you grinded for and that would piss me off terribly.

    Yes they need to make money but i for one HATE HATE HATE this model. 

    nothing amazing inside anyway. 3 times for me all just comestic transforming item.

    i think its not soulbound. so you can just treat it as extra gold.

  • jpnolejpnole Tampa, FLPosts: 1,656Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Torqia

    Its Pay to not be annoyed...

    So you need to pay real money to open lockboxes.... sigh

    Yes that isnt pay to win but if you dont pay, your gonna feel like you cant get the items you grinded for and that would piss me off terribly.

    Yes they need to make money but i for one HATE HATE HATE this model. 

    Thanks a lot Torqia. It's honesty like this that lets me know I am better served to put my $60 into a D3 pre order, which I purchased about an hour ago.

  • DredphyreDredphyre Los Angeles, CAPosts: 601Member

    Originally posted by Drakxii

    It's how the "fee" to play model works.   GW2 devs or any of other devs that use the model that want you only to have enough fun to make you want to make the game a little(or lot) less grindy or make your character a little less stupid looking.  That don't care about new/good content as much as P2P would because it won't make them any money.

    sorry, had to fix a minor error in your post.  Carry on.

  • adam_noxadam_nox hays, KSPosts: 2,073Member Uncommon

    It really didn't take long for people to completely forget that this was originally supposed to be a B2P with a very minimal cash shop as part of this idea that they could make money off of box sales.

    They keep finding new ways of milking people and you guys just keep giving them a pass.  When does it end?

  • Fed1Fed1 Roaburg, VAPosts: 167Member

    Originally posted by Calintz333

    Originally posted by Fed1

    Originally posted by Calintz333

    Originally posted by Emwyn

    Originally posted by Distopia

    I was under the impression the cash shop was not in this BWE, was that impression wrong? TO add to that I was also under the impression those keys drop in game.



    The cash shop is in Distopia. There's a button in the top left to enter the cash shop. You can view things without entering any details. So far things are as previously leaked minus the  mystery boxes themselves, the megaphone and I really don't see any boosters at all unless I'm missing something?

    The keys do drop, see my above post.

    So there are no boosts what so ever in the cash shop? I wish I could see it for myself because I find that hard to believe.

     

    No karma boosts?

    exp boosts?

    drop rate boosts?

    crafting boosts?

     

    I would be extremely shocked if Anet actaully made things fair and didn't add any of these to the game.

     

     

    Agree - and if there are no incentives to buy, how will they make money to pay for the infrastructure?

    Anet is a for-profit company correct?

     

    So they did just fine with GW1 by selling us CONTENT and Cosmetics  not stat boosting  items. But they can't do that same thing here and get by can they?

     

    What makes them any different than all the other free to play companies now?

    Much larger development costs for one and increased infrastructure for another ....

  • zipzapzipzap HelsinkiPosts: 123Member

    Originally posted by jpnole

    Originally posted by Torqia

    Its Pay to not be annoyed...

    So you need to pay real money to open lockboxes.... sigh

    Yes that isnt pay to win but if you dont pay, your gonna feel like you cant get the items you grinded for and that would piss me off terribly.

    Yes they need to make money but i for one HATE HATE HATE this model. 

    Thanks a lot Torqia. It's honesty like this that lets me know I am better served to put my $60 into a D3 pre order, which I purchased about an hour ago.

    lol... for not likng GW2 you sure spend a lot of time in the GW2 forums...

    all your latest posts are in the GW2 forum... troll more plx

  • SoulOfRazielSoulOfRaziel Porto FerreiraPosts: 405Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Torqia

    Its Pay to not be annoyed...

    So you need to pay real money to open lockboxes.... sigh

    Yes that isnt pay to win but if you dont pay, your gonna feel like you cant get the items you grinded for and that would piss me off terribly.

    Yes they need to make money but i for one HATE HATE HATE this model. 

    AGAIN !!!!!!!!!!!!!

    box keys can be dropped from mobs....

    You can exchange ur gold for GEMS wich means u can buy "cash" itens without spend a single cent.

     

    image

  • Atlan99Atlan99 Calgary, ABPosts: 1,323Member

    Originally posted by zipzap

     

    lol... for not likng GW2 you sure spend a lot of time in the GW2 forums...

    all your latest posts are in the GW2 forum... troll more plx

    Your Necromancy skill is surging.

  • Atlan99Atlan99 Calgary, ABPosts: 1,323Member

    Originally posted by SoulOfRaziel

     

    AGAIN !!!!!!!!!!!!!

    box keys can be dropped from mobs....

    You can exchange ur gold for GEMS wich means u can buy "cash" itens without spend a single cent.

     

    I think most people can agree that this is bad form on the part Arenanet.

    Putting in a drop that can be opened by buying something from the cash shop just seems a bit lame. It's something I expect from EA not Arenanet.

  • gladosrev2gladosrev2 BialystokPosts: 203Member

    Originally posted by Torqia

    Its Pay to not be annoyed...

    So you need to pay real money to open lockboxes.... sigh

    Yes that isnt pay to win but if you dont pay, your gonna feel like you cant get the items you grinded for and that would piss me off terribly.

    Yes they need to make money but i for one HATE HATE HATE this model. 

    Get a clue, in the beta a key costed something around 10-12 SILVER... If you can't get this much, go play Farmville. Noone is asking you to pay with your wallet, so stop trolling.

    My Guild Wars 2 First Beta Weekend "reviewette" : http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/4944570/thread/349125#4944570

  • SoulOfRazielSoulOfRaziel Porto FerreiraPosts: 405Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Torqia

    "Kicks myself as i try to learn how to investigate an issue before making an "frustrated thread"

    Thx for getting the facts straight:)

    Nop man next time just make a thread with a question not an afirmation =]

    it will "sound" better 

    cya have a good one !

    image

  • SoulOfRazielSoulOfRaziel Porto FerreiraPosts: 405Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Atlan99

    Originally posted by SoulOfRaziel


     

    AGAIN !!!!!!!!!!!!!

    box keys can be dropped from mobs....

    You can exchange ur gold for GEMS wich means u can buy "cash" itens without spend a single cent.

     

    I think most people can agree that this is bad form on the part Arenanet.

    Putting in a drop that can be opened by buying something from the cash shop just seems a bit lame. It's something I expect from EA not Arenanet.

    why is it bad? u can open the box u find from monster with keys that u can find from monsters too.

    keys can be dropped from monster OR bought in store its ur call =]

    i dont really see a down side here

    image

  • XristoXristo APO, NYPosts: 41Member

    Originally posted by SoulOfRaziel

    Originally posted by Torqia

    Its Pay to not be annoyed...

    So you need to pay real money to open lockboxes.... sigh

    Yes that isnt pay to win but if you dont pay, your gonna feel like you cant get the items you grinded for and that would piss me off terribly.

    Yes they need to make money but i for one HATE HATE HATE this model. 

    AGAIN !!!!!!!!!!!!!

    box keys can be dropped from mobs....

    You can exchange ur gold for GEMS wich means u can buy "cash" itens without spend a single cent.

     

    This ^^^

    I'm getting sick of retards not doing any research and ass.u.m(e)ing that they know what they are talking about.....ffs do some research/analysis before just wasting peoples' time on misleading threads....

    GEMS acuired by CASH ORRRRRRRRR in game GOLD

    KEYS bought by GEMS ORRRRRRRR drop in game,

    This is not rocket science....quit making excuses not to play. Just don't f*cking play....D3 and WoW is ----> way. 

    I know this thread is from the BWE but just a few posts above me (dated today) you got somebody using this thread to justify not playing...still...NOT READING...smh

    Much love :)

     

    EDIT: This is not geared towards the OP (Torqia). He/she was just misinformed and even praised the system after being schooled on the way it works.....this post is for the others who still don't get it.

  • besteverbestever prescott, AZPosts: 732Member

    Originally posted by Torqia

    Its Pay to not be annoyed...

    So you need to pay real money to open lockboxes.... sigh

    Yes that isnt pay to win but if you dont pay, your gonna feel like you cant get the items you grinded for and that would piss me off terribly.

    Yes they need to make money but i for one HATE HATE HATE this model. 

    Here we go again. Those keys drop in game. Look info up and you might find this out. In beta got a lockbox and a key from a quest. They may not drop as much as we like but they do drop. So next time when you have a complaint about something thats already been proven wrong do some research.

  • AnirethAnireth Posts: 599Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by bestever

    Here we go again. Those keys drop in game. Look info up and you might find this out. In beta got a lockbox and a key from a quest. They may not drop as much as we like but they do drop. So next time when you have a complaint about something thats already been proven wrong do some research.

    Actually, i got two keys and only one box in the BWE.

    I'll wait to the day's end when the moon is high
    And then I'll rise with the tide with a lust for life, I'll
    Amass an army, and we'll harness a horde
    And then we'll limp across the land until we stand at the shore

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