Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Fuzzy Avatars Solved! Please re-upload your avatar if it was fuzzy!

WvWvW Community...or lack of it

13»

Comments

  • BaikalBaikal Chicago, TXPosts: 1,025Member


    Originally posted by Adalwulff
     
    EDIT: And how can you, the OP, include your enemies when talking about WvWvW community?? How are they apart of your community? This thread is just wrong....


    I'll ask the same question that someone else did to another poster. Have you ever played a game like DAoC or Warhammer, a single server game where one of the core elements is based around RvR style PvP? I dont mean it in a snarky way either, because I suspect if you had played one of those games you'd understand.

    People on a server, are a community, just because they are on different factions doesnt mean that arent. That was one of the joys of games and titles like I named earlier. Just because people were on another faction and fought them did not mean they were not part of the same community, and the fact that I saw them in instanced PvP, in the world, and on forums it made for a much better relationship. People were not Friar 2038 I'd see that week, but it was a person, someone I got to know from all the extended contact a single server allows.

    That's the difference I originally pointed out in the thread, is that servers making up the 3 worlds instead of 3 factions on the same world mean limited contact, and changing fights every couple of weeks. Single server they were your community, in the GW2 server there isnt a community, and that's what I was regretting.

    Hope I'm clearer trying to explain.

  • WolvardsWolvards grants pass, ORPosts: 650Member

    Originally posted by Baikal

     




    Originally posted by Adalwulff

     

    EDIT: And how can you, the OP, include your enemies when talking about WvWvW community?? How are they apart of your community? This thread is just wrong....




     



    I'll ask the same question that someone else did to another poster. Have you ever played a game like DAoC or Warhammer, a single server game where one of the core elements is based around RvR style PvP? I dont mean it in a snarky way either, because I suspect if you had played one of those games you'd understand.

    People on a server, are a community, just because they are on different factions doesnt mean that arent. That was one of the joys of games and titles like I named earlier. Just because people were on another faction and fought them did not mean they were not part of the same community, and the fact that I saw them in instanced PvP, in the world, and on forums it made for a much better relationship. People were not Friar 2038 I'd see that week, but it was a person, someone I got to know from all the extended contact a single server allows.

    That's the difference I originally pointed out in the thread, is that servers making up the 3 worlds instead of 3 factions on the same world mean limited contact, and changing fights every couple of weeks. Single server they were your community, in the GW2 server there isnt a community, and that's what I was regretting.

    Hope I'm clearer trying to explain.

    This ^

    Playing Hibs, i know a few other faction players, never once have i talked to them, but i know how they play.

    Castertroy is a keep camping homo LOL.

    Billings is a zerger and a good one at that.

    Clumsy is a hell of an offensive leader, uses siege properly too.

    Kzar was similar to billings, but liked flanking a little more.

    Oprah is in the same boat with billings.

    Those are all just the BG leaders that i fought against.

    I knew them, i mean i didn't, but i did.

    Can't really describe it unless you've been there first hand. Leading an attack. And seeing the name that you really hoped wasn't going to be there, and knowing this was going to be a long fought out fight now.

    You knew that when clumsy came over, he was going to take anything and everything he possibly could. Billings just wanted realm points. We knew this cause we've all been playing so long together.

     

    Edit: as to the OPs point, about it feeling like you won't know your enemy, i feel exactly the same way. I wan't to know who they are, and have long enough to know how they play. Talking to them on forums going, DUDE!!!! that last fight was EPIC!!!

    The "Youtube Pro": Someone who watches video's on said subject, and obviously has a full understanding of what is being said about such subject.

  • AdalwulffAdalwulff Sacramento, CAPosts: 1,152Member

    Originally posted by Wolvards

    Originally posted by Baikal

     




    Originally posted by Adalwulff

     

    EDIT: And how can you, the OP, include your enemies when talking about WvWvW community?? How are they apart of your community? This thread is just wrong....




     



    I'll ask the same question that someone else did to another poster. Have you ever played a game like DAoC or Warhammer, a single server game where one of the core elements is based around RvR style PvP? I dont mean it in a snarky way either, because I suspect if you had played one of those games you'd understand.

    People on a server, are a community, just because they are on different factions doesnt mean that arent. That was one of the joys of games and titles like I named earlier. Just because people were on another faction and fought them did not mean they were not part of the same community, and the fact that I saw them in instanced PvP, in the world, and on forums it made for a much better relationship. People were not Friar 2038 I'd see that week, but it was a person, someone I got to know from all the extended contact a single server allows.

    That's the difference I originally pointed out in the thread, is that servers making up the 3 worlds instead of 3 factions on the same world mean limited contact, and changing fights every couple of weeks. Single server they were your community, in the GW2 server there isnt a community, and that's what I was regretting.

    Hope I'm clearer trying to explain.

    This ^

    Playing Hibs, i know a few other faction players, never once have i talked to them, but i know how they play.

    Castertroy is a keep camping homo LOL.

    Billings is a zerger and a good one at that.

    Clumsy is a hell of an offensive leader, uses siege properly too.

    Kzar was similar to billings, but liked flanking a little more.

    Oprah is in the same boat with billings.

    Those are all just the BG leaders that i fought against.

    I knew them, i mean i didn't, but i did.

    Can't really describe it unless you've been there first hand. Leading an attack. And seeing the name that you really hoped wasn't going to be there, and knowing this was going to be a long fought out fight now.

    You knew that when clumsy came over, he was going to take anything and everything he possibly could. Billings just wanted realm points. We knew this cause we've all been playing so long together.

     

    Edit: as to the OPs point, about it feeling like you won't know your enemy, i feel exactly the same way. I wan't to know who they are, and have long enough to know how they play. Talking to them on forums going, DUDE!!!! that last fight was EPIC!!!

     

    Ya, I know exactly what your talking about, but why couldnt you answer my question? All you did was prove exactly what I said, all you care about is your opinion, your vision of the WvW as you saw it in DAOC and other games.

    I was there in DAOC, for many years. I remember a few stealthers, who were always backstabbing somebody, but that is not where my fondest memories are.

    I remember my guild mates more than my enemies, thats the point you guys seem to be missing. Its funny how I can see your point, but you are unable to see mine, or even comprehend how I could possibly dissagree with you.

    As for community, there is no way in hell, Im going to belive that the enemy servers are apart of my community. That doesnt even make sense. I dont talk to them. I dont plan sieges with them. I dont defend keeps with them. I dont do dungeons with them...ect...ect

    To each his own I guess.

    image
  • fundayzfundayz Chatown, ONPosts: 463Member

    Originally posted by Wolvards

    Edit: as to the OPs point, about it feeling like you won't know your enemy, i feel exactly the same way. I wan't to know who they are, and have long enough to know how they play. Talking to them on forums going, DUDE!!!! that last fight was EPIC!!!

    The thing is WvW match ups only last two weeks. Even if names were displayed you wouldn't play with the other servers consistently enough to get to know them like in DAoC.

    Even with only 2 match ups before fighting the same server again, that's still a month between you see those players again. Judging from the amount of servers available just for this Beta Weekend, I would be surprised to be matched up with the same server less than a month apart.

  • ShadanwolfShadanwolf Posts: 2,114Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Baikal

    Dont misunderstand me, I love the direction that ArenaNet has taken with this, but I keep having a few niggling issues in the back of my mind with it, and most of 'em center around community.

    DAoC, pre-cross server WoW, Warhammer, even SWTOR, I like the community that builds up around PvP. You see a guild tag, or a name, you know if it is likely to be a challenging match or an easy match. You build friendly rivalries, and those things definitely took up a life of their own on forums, and in the game itself. My personal belief is that they undeniably added something enjoyable to my PvP experience.

    This isnt a concern, or a complaint, but I do wonder how much I'm going to miss that added layer of enjoyment in GW2. It's just "Green Invader" or "Red Invader", and a guild tag, there is no sense of a permanent rivalry, it's a rivalry that changes every couple of weeks, and I dont know how deeply that matters. Yankees and Red Sox, Bears and Packers, these are rivalries that date back years and years, and that brings something extra for fans.

    I realize how the matchmaking system works (and I like it) and I dont know that I'd trade the benefits of it for a permanent rivalry, at least I wont know for awhile until I see how it plays out. Anyone else feel like they'll miss a little something because of the way WvWvW is set up? Miss a favorite rival player, or guild kind of thing?



    Do baseball teams play the same opponents all the time...or football teams play the same team over and over ?(yes ,I'm listening for your answer) Are there rivalrys among  those teams ? (listens intently)

     

    I think over time there will develope rivalrys between servers.It will take a bit of time.But servers with good players........those players don't like to loose.So you will see some intense fights...and guilds moving from a server full of wusses to some with blood lust.

  • ZylaxxZylaxx Erlanger, KYPosts: 2,574Member

    Originally posted by Baikal

     




    Originally posted by Requiamer





    Originally posted by Baikal

    snip





    Don't you think rivalry might come later after, say, after a couple of months, between servers actually.





    Yes and no.

    The problem is when there are the 2-4 week lulls when the winner advances and a loser drops. To me, that tends to diminish a rivalry a little bit. Of course I suppose you can argue that you'll build more, but in any case, I dont think they'd mean quite as much as the old time single server rivalries.

    First off the downtime between WvWvW happens during server maintenance so the downtime is never really felt.  Second of all, just as in DAoC RvR you never saw the name of the enemy only things like "elf invader" or "Saracren invader" plus you would have to look for tell tail signs of which guild they were.  Like looking at their guild cloak. 

     

    IMO GW2 will be no different in WvWvW.  Ny only concern with GW2 is the bastardization of the WoW kiddies who have no clue what open-ended realm conflict means.  I shudder to think of being on the one of the 2 losing sides (it will happen) and instead of the other losing server form an ad-hoc allegiance against the winning server they instead herp a derp the other loser.  I could def see this piss poor WoW type mentality taking hold and ruining what makes RvR style conflict so great.  I pray that the server my guild picks is mostly DAoC vets and most of the WoW baddies decide to play together so they can get curbstompe like the idiots they are.

    Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online

    Playing: GW2
    Waiting on: TESO
    Next Flop: Planetside 2
    Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.

    image

  • MMOExposedMMOExposed lalal land, DCPosts: 6,255Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Wolvards

    Originally posted by killion81

    Originally posted by Nethriil

    How many do you Get in for wvwvw. Will it not be random people everytime. I can just see all the l2p and frustrated players. None of the big pvp Maps in wow were much fun in the long run. Why would a battle taking 2 weeks to finish be any fun? Give me 10v10 or 15v15 anytime over this time waste. In the end players always wants fast results. U dont Get that with a 2 week bore. I Think this wvwvw hype is gonna disappoint a lot of people.

     

    I take it you never played DAoC?

    No he hasn't, He is a poor deprived wow e-sporter player. It's a shame what that game has made of their expectations :(

     

    GW1 also had that kind of PvP. So what you expect?

    image

  • MMOExposedMMOExposed lalal land, DCPosts: 6,255Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Nethriil

    Originally posted by Slukjan

    Originally posted by Msenge

    Originally posted by drakaena

    My main worry about WvWvW is that I may spent the majority of my time there looking for PvP, rather than actually PvPing. I don't have the time anymore to game all day, so if 70% of the time I'm just running around killing NPC's in hopes of escalating an epic battle, I might find myself playing less and less.

    Well then it's a good thing the ingame map of the wvw area tells you where action is going on.

    I hope that doesn't mean pvp will be one massive zergfest.

     

    Of course it ll be a zerg fest. Just like the big wow bgs. Its the same type of players with the same intelligence.

    Zerging can be fun as well. OLD AV... But with 3 factions and week long battle rather than 2 day long Old AV battles. It's Win win

    image

  • MMOExposedMMOExposed lalal land, DCPosts: 6,255Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Adalwulff

    Originally posted by Vesavius

    Originally posted by Adalwulff

    I noticed all the flaming about rivalry, when it comes to WvW.

    Nobody is talking about comradery, which is what Anet is going for, imo. Thats what is missing from the MMO today, so much emphasis on me me me, and gear, and me me me.

    Does nobody want to build strong guilds and blast the enemy, why is it all about your enemy, and you?!

     

    Well, I actually kinda did, just in the post before yours ;)

     

    "I would guess that the servers that can't get organised will find themselves at the short bus end of the server rankings pretty quickly."

     

    Thats funny you should say that, just as I posted my comment, I read yours and thought to myself, "See, that guy knows what Im talking about!"

    Good luck with your guild!

    I have to disagree with you. Many sports have team rivals. Not just a MeMeMe kind of thing...

    image

  • Mike-McQueenMike-McQueen Enfield, CTPosts: 243Member
    After the dust has settled most players will have settled on their look with skins and the dye system so while it might say *Red Invader* [XXX], you will know to avoid the black and gold norn warrior. If you find someone a rival, I'm sure you'll come up with your own name for him.

    I'm a unique and beautiful snowflake.

  • SoulSurferSoulSurfer Denver, COPosts: 1,248Member

    Your server will be your community, so don't shit on it.  Also, you will come to learn those "character avatars" to avoid in dubVdub rather than simply looking for certain names, like the above poster stated.

    Warhammer had a pretty good community, for 6 months while I played that game I had a lot of fun.  In Aion, you just see the same names over and over for years... it gets kinda old /shrug...

  • TheYear1500TheYear1500 Boise, IDPosts: 342Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Lucioon

    Originally posted by darkspriggan

    I can definitely understand where you're coming from with that, being a former DAoC player. The rivalries and enemies formed from that was insane. Just don't forget there's also the structured PvP to fuel the community as well, though I don't know if they're cross server.

    With the guesting system, do we really need a cross server.

    Your Rivals can come to your server and join the Structure PVP that both of you want to do. Really no need for a cross server random generator.

    The way A.Net has described how Structure PVP i think its world wide (in other words every one in the same PVP system).  

     

    "And then it works how it would on a server based first-person shooter, where you browse for a game and then play."

    http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2010/04/28/guild-wars-2-interview-part-1-fighting-fires/

     

  • aesperusaesperus Hamshire, NVPosts: 5,128Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by SoulSurfer

    Your server will be your community, so don't shit on it.  Also, you will come to learn those "character avatars" to avoid in dubVdub rather than simply looking for certain names, like the above poster stated.

    Warhammer had a pretty good community, for 6 months while I played that game I had a lot of fun.  In Aion, you just see the same names over and over for years... it gets kinda old /shrug...

    This ^

    I think that's going to end up biting some people on the ass.  I also think that the veteran players are going to have a fairly good idea of whom they are fighting. If the guild tags aren't enough, I know that avatar look & playstyle will be pretty telling. I know in WAR, DAoC, GW1, etc. I could recognize certain players based on those factors. I could usually tell 'goddamnit, that's that same guy that was griefing me earlier!'. Given the official forums, I would not be surprised if we see threads like 'who is this guild!?' lol.

  • BaikalBaikal Chicago, TXPosts: 1,025Member


    Originally posted by Shadanwolf


    Originally posted by Baikal
    Dont misunderstand me, I love the direction that ArenaNet has taken with this, but I keep having a few niggling issues in the back of my mind with it, and most of 'em center around community.
    DAoC, pre-cross server WoW, Warhammer, even SWTOR, I like the community that builds up around PvP. You see a guild tag, or a name, you know if it is likely to be a challenging match or an easy match. You build friendly rivalries, and those things definitely took up a life of their own on forums, and in the game itself. My personal belief is that they undeniably added something enjoyable to my PvP experience.
    This isnt a concern, or a complaint, but I do wonder how much I'm going to miss that added layer of enjoyment in GW2. It's just "Green Invader" or "Red Invader", and a guild tag, there is no sense of a permanent rivalry, it's a rivalry that changes every couple of weeks, and I dont know how deeply that matters. Yankees and Red Sox, Bears and Packers, these are rivalries that date back years and years, and that brings something extra for fans.
    I realize how the matchmaking system works (and I like it) and I dont know that I'd trade the benefits of it for a permanent rivalry, at least I wont know for awhile until I see how it plays out. Anyone else feel like they'll miss a little something because of the way WvWvW is set up? Miss a favorite rival player, or guild kind of thing?

    Do baseball teams play the same opponents all the time...or football teams play the same team over and over ?(yes ,I'm listening for your answer) Are there rivalrys among  those teams ? (listens intently)
     
    I think over time there will develope rivalrys between servers.It will take a bit of time.But servers with good players........those players don't like to loose.So you will see some intense fights...and guilds moving from a server full of wusses to some with blood lust.


    /shrug

    Yes, they do play each other consistently, which is how the rivalries develop. Red Sox and Yankess have played for over a 100 years, and that's exactly what single server communities have. No offense, but why would you draw such an absurd conclusion that they need to play every game against one another, or that I was even suggesting that? You think I'm saying that they have to play every game against one another to form that rivalry? WvWvW is more like saying the Yankees are bitter rivals with the Florida Marlins, I mean hey, they play 6 games against each other every 4 years. You dont want to draw the distinction that 6 games every 4 years might not be rivals on the same level as 14 games against one another every year for 100+ years? Hmmm, okay.


    On an single server, I dont see the same person in every instancted PvP game, I dont see the same person every day I go out into the world and PvE, and I dont see them every single day I visit a forum. However, I do see them fairly frequently, and more importantly, consistently. How long might it be between your seeing the same person here? It could be 2 weeks, it could be 6 weeks, it could be never.

    Dont get me wrong, I can see, in-time, servers building rivalries, and in some cases better rivalries because when you "win" you can boot someone down the tree, and it does give a sense of winning. That's definitely a positive, but I dont know how much that replaces knowing the people you see every day. Maybe it will, no idea, but like I said....just one of the inevitable parts of this system that make me take a step back. Still dig it, just know I'll miss the other part, at least until, and if the server rivalry can replace it.

  • BaikalBaikal Chicago, TXPosts: 1,025Member


    Originally posted by Adalwulff


    Originally posted by Wolvards


    Originally posted by Baikal
     



    Originally posted by Adalwulff
     
    EDIT: And how can you, the OP, include your enemies when talking about WvWvW community?? How are they apart of your community? This thread is just wrong....


     

    I'll ask the same question that someone else did to another poster. Have you ever played a game like DAoC or Warhammer, a single server game where one of the core elements is based around RvR style PvP? I dont mean it in a snarky way either, because I suspect if you had played one of those games you'd understand.
    People on a server, are a community, just because they are on different factions doesnt mean that arent. That was one of the joys of games and titles like I named earlier. Just because people were on another faction and fought them did not mean they were not part of the same community, and the fact that I saw them in instanced PvP, in the world, and on forums it made for a much better relationship. People were not Friar 2038 I'd see that week, but it was a person, someone I got to know from all the extended contact a single server allows.
    That's the difference I originally pointed out in the thread, is that servers making up the 3 worlds instead of 3 factions on the same world mean limited contact, and changing fights every couple of weeks. Single server they were your community, in the GW2 server there isnt a community, and that's what I was regretting.
    Hope I'm clearer trying to explain.

    This ^
    Playing Hibs, i know a few other faction players, never once have i talked to them, but i know how they play.
    Castertroy is a keep camping homo LOL.
    Billings is a zerger and a good one at that.
    Clumsy is a hell of an offensive leader, uses siege properly too.
    Kzar was similar to billings, but liked flanking a little more.
    Oprah is in the same boat with billings.
    Those are all just the BG leaders that i fought against.
    I knew them, i mean i didn't, but i did.
    Can't really describe it unless you've been there first hand. Leading an attack. And seeing the name that you really hoped wasn't going to be there, and knowing this was going to be a long fought out fight now.
    You knew that when clumsy came over, he was going to take anything and everything he possibly could. Billings just wanted realm points. We knew this cause we've all been playing so long together.
     
    Edit: as to the OPs point, about it feeling like you won't know your enemy, i feel exactly the same way. I wan't to know who they are, and have long enough to know how they play. Talking to them on forums going, DUDE!!!! that last fight was EPIC!!!

     
    Ya, I know exactly what your talking about, but why couldnt you answer my question? All you did was prove exactly what I said, all you care about is your opinion, your vision of the WvW as you saw it in DAOC and other games.
    I was there in DAOC, for many years. I remember a few stealthers, who were always backstabbing somebody, but that is not where my fondest memories are.
    I remember my guild mates more than my enemies, thats the point you guys seem to be missing. Its funny how I can see your point, but you are unable to see mine, or even comprehend how I could possibly dissagree with you.
    As for community, there is no way in hell, Im going to belive that the enemy servers are apart of my community. That doesnt even make sense. I dont talk to them. I dont plan sieges with them. I dont defend keeps with them. I dont do dungeons with them...ect...ect
    To each his own I guess.


    Chief, after reading your post, I'm going to suggest that you stop, and go back and read exactly what I've said. I've tried two times, I guess I'll take one last try to punch thru. So please dont tell me all I care about is my own opinion. I dont think my point is universal, and I dont think it's the only one with merit, but I do think that before you critique it, you really oughta understand what I'm saying, because this is the 2nd time you've tried to suggest I'm saying something when in fact I'm saying the exact opposite. Short version is that I never said there is a community feeling to the WvWvW in GW2, which is what I was lamenting. Not sure why you would think that I ever said that enemy server are a part of my community, in fact I've been pretty clear all along that they arent, and that's something I'm not keen on.

    I do NOT feel that in GW2 enemy servers are part of "my community" in the same sense that different factions on the same server were still a part of "my community." That's exactly what I'm saying is the problem, because I'm not going to talk to them, I'm not going to engage in world PvP (other than WvWvW), I'm not doing anything with them, other than seeing some random faces.

    If they were on a different faction, same server (like I pointed out in other titles) I'm talking to them on forums, I'm fighting world PvP with them, I'm fighting instanced PvP, I'm encountering them out in the world, and then they most certainly are involved in day to day activities. That's where I can know, respect, hate, anything else the "other faction" because I have that. Here it's just random, nameless and faceless people, just because that's how the system will work, unless after awhile it sorts itself to the point you end up playing the same servers nearly non-stop.

    We arent missing a point about remembering guildmates at all, we're making a point that you dont get to know and become as familiar with your enemy. Sure, I remember tons of friends and things we did, but Wolvards expressed it pretty well, you DO get to know your opponents, and that's part of the fun. (Note I did not say all of the fun, but it's part of it) It is also a part of the strategy, you know who leads the best warbands. Put it this way, the community I remember was not JUST my guildmates, I remember some of the enemy, because they were active and memorable members of the community.

    The short version, and hopefully simplified version of what I'm saying, is that the GW2 WvWvW system makes me feel like the enemy isnt near the part of the community when compared to my experiences of multi-faction but same server titles. Personally, I'll miss that, but I understand why ArenaNet did what they did, and I think it's a good thing, but I think you definitely lose some of community found in other titles, if only for WvWvW PvP. As other people have pointed out, perhaps in-time server rivalries will develop and take the place of the factional rivalries and be just as good. That could happen, and I'd be thrilled, it's just that with the WvWvW system as is, I dont KNOW that it'll happen.

    Cheers

  • SiphaedSiphaed Everywhere!Posts: 876Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Baikal

    Dont misunderstand me, I love the direction that ArenaNet has taken with this, but I keep having a few niggling issues in the back of my mind with it, and most of 'em center around community.

    DAoC, pre-cross server WoW, Warhammer, even SWTOR, I like the community that builds up around PvP. You see a guild tag, or a name, you know if it is likely to be a challenging match or an easy match. You build friendly rivalries, and those things definitely took up a life of their own on forums, and in the game itself. My personal belief is that they undeniably added something enjoyable to my PvP experience.

    This isnt a concern, or a complaint, but I do wonder how much I'm going to miss that added layer of enjoyment in GW2. It's just "Green Invader" or "Red Invader", and a guild tag, there is no sense of a permanent rivalry, it's a rivalry that changes every couple of weeks, and I dont know how deeply that matters. Yankees and Red Sox, Bears and Packers, these are rivalries that date back years and years, and that brings something extra for fans.

    I realize how the matchmaking system works (and I like it) and I dont know that I'd trade the benefits of it for a permanent rivalry, at least I wont know for awhile until I see how it plays out. Anyone else feel like they'll miss a little something because of the way WvWvW is set up? Miss a favorite rival player, or guild kind of thing?

     

     

    SERVER PRIDE!  Well, realalistically it's "World" as they refer it to.   However that itself will get a server, not a guild, to be trying to hold a point.  Who cares if guild X or guild Y is helping or not, the overall World/Server/Realm depends on every man, woman, and child holding their ground or pushing to take the next position.  


13»
Sign In or Register to comment.