Honestly, I'm unhappy with it too. I'm guessing it's becuase lighting and shading tend to be one of the things that KILLS framerate, so DX11 tends to mean the game runs slower. /Shrug. We can hope they'll add support eventualy, WoW and other games have.
Not sure why everyone is so bent out of shape about no DX11 support. Sure DX11 gives tessalation, but that's honestly the only advantage. Aside from that there is nothing you can do with DX11 that you can't do in 10 or 9. The only thing is it has to be programmed differently. Your hlsl libraries have to be shuffled a bit and, bam, same results. DX11 is a bit more optimized to run certain shaders, but the actual advantages over 9 or 10 are actually pretty minimal. Want to know a secret. When crysis 2 was released the game looked pretty damn awesome(not as good as crysis 1 imo) but it was only running DX9 and every shader, with the exception of per-pixel bokeh depth of field and tesselation, was exactly the same. There was almost no graphical difference other than my bricks looked brickier...
Besides you have to account for the fact that not all cards that are currently in users systems support DX11. There are a large number of users who have dx11 ready cards, but you can't discount the minority. On top of that DX11 isnt something you can just plug in and go. Their entire engine has to be redone to work around dx11 and have fallbacks for DX10 and 9. So it's not like something they can throw in last minute. We see how well that went with crysis 2. So if it's not in there at launch, chances are it will never be there,
so what if your bricks dont stick out a bit. The game is awesome by itself and looks incredible in DX9. Besides DX11 is still very unstable when being used at its full potential. Not only that its implementation is a bit fishy and there has yet to be a developer who can effectively implement it into a game. Crytek and DICE games had some trouble figuring out wtf to do with tesselation. Works great for bricks and oceans...but what the heck else can we realy use it on effectively without increasing geometry beyond the realtime cache.
So gw2 has no dx11 support...youll just have to get over it mates.
EDIT: and besides, even if they did add dx11 support the game would look no different as their models arent even optimized to accept proper tesselation.
MMO's are the ark of the gaming world. Let it take us in new directions.
You can guys expect DX11 support sometime in future. My opinion is that they have greater issues than this particular, heck many even complained about performance issues within the game. Have a patience guys, let them optimize it first.
Main MMO at the moment: Guild Wars 2 Waiting for: Pathfinder Online
Originally posted by MMO_REVIEWER Not sure why everyone is so bent out of shape about no DX11 support. Sure DX11 gives tessalation, but that's honestly the only advantage. Aside from that there is nothing you can do with DX11 that you can't do in 10 or 9. The only thing is it has to be programmed differently. Your hlsl libraries have to be shuffled a bit and, bam, same results. DX11 is a bit more optimized to run certain shaders, but the actual advantages over 9 or 10 are actually pretty minimal. Want to know a secret. When crysis 2 was released the game looked pretty damn awesome(not as good as crysis 1 imo) but it was only running DX9 and every shader, with the exception of per-pixel bokeh depth of field and tesselation, was exactly the same. There was almost no graphical difference other than my bricks looked brickier...
For the technical blind yes. For everyone else Crysis2 is still behind Crysis1 and Warhead by large. Not the engine but the used graphic fidelity. Especialy lightning and reflections as shadows got toned down a lot and have been not real time interacting / calculated at many scenes. You know the things DX10 and 11 do better, exactly the things you want to use dx10 / 11 for. The things DX9 can't render fluid even with raw gpu / cpu power in 5 years.
DX11 is way more than just tessellation. For GW2 you could have the shadow of individual leaves reflecting and dancing on your face as the sun glares through. Some shadows stretching and falling leaves dance with their shadows on the ground. The difference from dx10 to 11? Shader 5.0 and the vastly improved multi-threading. Which means roughly by crytek terms 30% more leaves reflecting on water, spinning shadows for the same power!
For a MMO that means i could have dynamic shadows interacting with a torch for a raid of 20 players not just a group. On a medicore DX11 card.
Originally posted by MMO_REVIEWER Besides you have to account for the fact that not all cards that are currently in users systems support DX11. There are a large number of users who have dx11 ready cards, but you can't discount the minority. On top of that DX11 isnt something you can just plug in and go. Their entire engine has to be redone to work around dx11 and have fallbacks for DX10 and 9. So it's not like something they can throw in last minute. We see how well that went with crysis 2. So if it's not in there at launch, chances are it will never be there, so what if your bricks dont stick out a bit. The game is awesome by itself and looks incredible in DX9. Besides DX11 is still very unstable when being used at its full potential. Not only that its implementation is a bit fishy and there has yet to be a developer who can effectively implement it into a game. Crytek and DICE games had some trouble figuring out wtf to do with tesselation. Works great for bricks and oceans...but what the heck else can we realy use it on effectively without increasing geometry beyond the realtime cache. So gw2 has no dx11 support...youll just have to get over it mates. EDIT: and besides, even if they did add dx11 support the game would look no different as their models arent even optimized to accept proper tesselation.
Yes this is however true, but as already said, DX11 isn't about tesselation only. It's a pure money thing.
You have really "bad" lightning, reflections and shadows with DX9, but everyone can run these settings. You can get most effects good enough with DX10. You only need Vista / Win7. Most people should fill in these requirements today. You can get the most out of DX11 but DX11 requires DX11 hardware and Win7. Not really many people.
Realistically they would need to either drop support for Dx9 or do all three. I can understand ANet if they don't want to handle three APIs just to please all.
Not sure why everyone is so bent out of shape about no DX11 support. Sure DX11 gives tessalation, but that's honestly the only advantage. Aside from that there is nothing you can do with DX11 that you can't do in 10 or 9. The only thing is it has to be programmed differently. Your hlsl libraries have to be shuffled a bit and, bam, same results. DX11 is a bit more optimized to run certain shaders, but the actual advantages over 9 or 10 are actually pretty minimal. Want to know a secret. When crysis 2 was released the game looked pretty damn awesome(not as good as crysis 1 imo) but it was only running DX9 and every shader, with the exception of per-pixel bokeh depth of field and tesselation, was exactly the same. There was almost no graphical difference other than my bricks looked brickier...
For the technical blind yes. For everyone else Crysis2 is still behind Crysis1 and Warhead by large. Not the engine but the used graphic fidelity. Especialy lightning and reflections as shadows got toned down a lot and have been not real time interacting / calculated at many scenes. You know the things DX10 and 11 do better, exactly the things you want to use dx10 / 11 for. The things DX9 can't render fluid even with raw gpu / cpu power in 5 years.
DX11 is way more than just tessellation. For GW2 you could have the shadow of individual leaves reflecting and dancing on your face as the sun glares through. Some shadows stretching and falling leaves dance with their shadows on the ground. The difference from dx10 to 11? Shader 5.0 and the vastly improved multi-threading. Which means roughly by crytek terms 30% more leaves reflecting on water, spinning shadows for the same power!
For a MMO that means i could have dynamic shadows interacting with a torch for a raid of 20 players not just a group. On a medicore DX11 card.
Originally posted by MMO_REVIEWER
Besides you have to account for the fact that not all cards that are currently in users systems support DX11. There are a large number of users who have dx11 ready cards, but you can't discount the minority. On top of that DX11 isnt something you can just plug in and go. Their entire engine has to be redone to work around dx11 and have fallbacks for DX10 and 9. So it's not like something they can throw in last minute. We see how well that went with crysis 2. So if it's not in there at launch, chances are it will never be there,
so what if your bricks dont stick out a bit. The game is awesome by itself and looks incredible in DX9. Besides DX11 is still very unstable when being used at its full potential. Not only that its implementation is a bit fishy and there has yet to be a developer who can effectively implement it into a game. Crytek and DICE games had some trouble figuring out wtf to do with tesselation. Works great for bricks and oceans...but what the heck else can we realy use it on effectively without increasing geometry beyond the realtime cache.
So gw2 has no dx11 support...youll just have to get over it mates.
EDIT: and besides, even if they did add dx11 support the game would look no different as their models arent even optimized to accept proper tesselation.
Yes this is however true, but as already said, DX11 isn't about tesselation only.
It's a pure money thing.
You have really "bad" lightning, reflections and shadows with DX9, but everyone can run these settings.
You can get most effects good enough with DX10. You only need Vista / Win7. Most people should fill in these requirements today.
You can get the most out of DX11 but DX11 requires DX11 hardware and Win7. Not really many people.
Realistically they would need to either drop support for Dx9 or do all three. I can understand ANet if they don't want to handle three APIs just to please all.
DX9/DX10 is a good enough compromise to me.
I like that you point at tesselation alot :P. The reason I mention it so much is because it seems to be all that people care about from DX11. The average consumer realy doesn't care about the performance increases...they just want to see bricks shooting out of buildings like stray bullets. Looks cool to them. Ofcourse DX11 isn't just tesselation and the features you talked about sound great...but you ahve to remember this must be done on a larger scale for gw2...and for any mmo. So yes you can have leaves dancing a merry jig across your face for hours on end...in a standalone title like Crysis 2 or Battlefield 3, but in an mmo where information, such as these leaves dancing, must be updated in realtime back and forth between client and server it becomes more of a task. Because player A sees these leaves dancing the server has to make sure that player B can see them as well. it's not so much of can our hardware handle it...its more of can servers keep up with DX11. The other part is that all the performance advantages we gain from DX11 are almost negated entirely by large scale MMO's like GW2. Sure the game will run incredibly fast...but stuff 300-500 people on a WvW map and have them all grouped up in a big cluster fuck of awesome ass-raping...and there goes all that performance you gained. The architecture can handle it just fine...the servers are a different story. Data being pushed through a stream is always the same. You use skill A and the server has to make sure that everyone knows that you used skill A and every one has to see the particle effect for skill A. It has to determine if it should fire off the DX9 or DX11 shader depending on the players settings. It's alot of thinking for a server to have to do.
That's pretty much the point I was getting at. DX11 just isn't viable for an MMO quite yet. In the future when server technology evolves a bit more...yes.
MMO's are the ark of the gaming world. Let it take us in new directions.
I like that you point at tesselation alot :P. The reason I mention it so much is because it seems to be all that people care about from DX11. The average consumer realy doesn't care about the performance increases...they just want to see bricks shooting out of buildings like stray bullets. Looks cool to them. Ofcourse DX11 isn't just tesselation and the features you talked about sound great...but you ahve to remember this must be done on a larger scale for gw2...and for any mmo. So yes you can have leaves dancing a merry jig across your face for hours on end...in a standalone title like Crysis 2 or Battlefield 3, but in an mmo where information, such as these leaves dancing, must be updated in realtime back and forth between client and server it becomes more of a task. Because player A sees these leaves dancing the server has to make sure that player B can see them as well. it's not so much of can our hardware handle it...its more of can servers keep up with DX11. The other part is that all the performance advantages we gain from DX11 are almost negated entirely by large scale MMO's like GW2. Sure the game will run incredibly fast...but stuff 300-500 people on a WvW map and have them all grouped up in a big cluster fuck of awesome ass-raping...and there goes all that performance you gained. The architecture can handle it just fine...the servers are a different story. Data being pushed through a stream is always the same. You use skill A and the server has to make sure that everyone knows that you used skill A and every one has to see the particle effect for skill A. It has to determine if it should fire off the DX9 or DX11 shader depending on the players settings. It's alot of thinking for a server to have to do.
That's pretty much the point I was getting at. DX11 just isn't viable for an MMO quite yet. In the future when server technology evolves a bit more...yes.
Uhm? Are you trolling? Sorry but what the...? This statement was ridiculous. You don't sync such things. NEVER not even in an FPS.
Oh and then magic ponys! Server goes oh oh. totally. Seriously..what the hell did i just read? So wrong on so many levels.
So i instaled the game and its all running for the beta weekend but i must say this game runs in directx 9 ? not directx 11 can anyone explain me this ?
Especially that directx 11 would provide a better performance playing than Directx 9 especially on nvidia graphic cards.
You clearly don't know what you're talking about. Hopefully this beta weekend will give you calrity and possibly an answer to your question.
My understanding is that DX10 will be supported but perhaps no option to enable in the beta builds. At the very least I would love to see solid DX10 options. Infinitely better than DX9. I've only seen basic elements from DX11 added to any mmo thus far.
REally... dx10 was the worst dx ever released, its hardly anything of an improvement from dx9 with few lighting buffs loss or no change in fps (what it did do was make it easier on devs if they are making only dx10+ games, and of course in a true fation of a monoploy in reality makign it 10 times harder because now you had to make both dx9 shaders and dx10+ shaders for everythign in the game for backwards compatbility. The REAL fix make all games in the future dx9 games inreality with dx 10 and 11 code "stuck" on them). pretty much might as well have dx9 to dx11 as 10 is w/e.
I said it long ago don't even mind what dx your card has , if you have the fps go ahead and bumb itup you might get a small improvement, but overall it isn't worth much. (high character details and ultra textures >>>> dx upgrade most of the time).
The positive aspect if the shader code is implemented well you often will see improvement visually (small to mod) for little to no fps change (possible small bump). Additionally, AA etc. often are more resource effective with dx10+.
It appears that gw2 will be dx10 (stuck-on or full coded) but not avalible for the first big beta (not an awful idea). Oh and while dx11 offers features that preform well visually (with preformence hits) it uses the base base that 10 does (dx 11 is kinda like dx10 with bloom [not actually boom, thast was an example, of bonus features that you pay for in preformence]) .
PS for mmos your not going to utilze much of anything in dx10 and 11. Mainly improved shader coding. some lighting and effects.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
Not sure why everyone is so bent out of shape about no DX11 support. Sure DX11 gives tessalation, but that's honestly the only advantage. Aside from that there is nothing you can do with DX11 that you can't do in 10 or 9. The only thing is it has to be programmed differently. Your hlsl libraries have to be shuffled a bit and, bam, same results. DX11 is a bit more optimized to run certain shaders, but the actual advantages over 9 or 10 are actually pretty minimal. Want to know a secret. When crysis 2 was released the game looked pretty damn awesome(not as good as crysis 1 imo) but it was only running DX9 and every shader, with the exception of per-pixel bokeh depth of field and tesselation, was exactly the same. There was almost no graphical difference other than my bricks looked brickier...
For the technical blind yes. For everyone else Crysis2 is still behind Crysis1 and Warhead by large. Not the engine but the used graphic fidelity. Especialy lightning and reflections as shadows got toned down a lot and have been not real time interacting / calculated at many scenes. You know the things DX10 and 11 do better, exactly the things you want to use dx10 / 11 for. The things DX9 can't render fluid even with raw gpu / cpu power in 5 years.
DX11 is way more than just tessellation. For GW2 you could have the shadow of individual leaves reflecting and dancing on your face as the sun glares through. Some shadows stretching and falling leaves dance with their shadows on the ground. The difference from dx10 to 11? Shader 5.0 and the vastly improved multi-threading. Which means roughly by crytek terms 30% more leaves reflecting on water, spinning shadows for the same power!
For a MMO that means i could have dynamic shadows interacting with a torch for a raid of 20 players not just a group. On a medicore DX11 card.
Originally posted by MMO_REVIEWER
Besides you have to account for the fact that not all cards that are currently in users systems support DX11. There are a large number of users who have dx11 ready cards, but you can't discount the minority. On top of that DX11 isnt something you can just plug in and go. Their entire engine has to be redone to work around dx11 and have fallbacks for DX10 and 9. So it's not like something they can throw in last minute. We see how well that went with crysis 2. So if it's not in there at launch, chances are it will never be there,
so what if your bricks dont stick out a bit. The game is awesome by itself and looks incredible in DX9. Besides DX11 is still very unstable when being used at its full potential. Not only that its implementation is a bit fishy and there has yet to be a developer who can effectively implement it into a game. Crytek and DICE games had some trouble figuring out wtf to do with tesselation. Works great for bricks and oceans...but what the heck else can we realy use it on effectively without increasing geometry beyond the realtime cache.
So gw2 has no dx11 support...youll just have to get over it mates.
EDIT: and besides, even if they did add dx11 support the game would look no different as their models arent even optimized to accept proper tesselation.
Yes this is however true, but as already said, DX11 isn't about tesselation only.
It's a pure money thing.
You have really "bad" lightning, reflections and shadows with DX9, but everyone can run these settings.
You can get most effects good enough with DX10. You only need Vista / Win7. Most people should fill in these requirements today.
You can get the most out of DX11 but DX11 requires DX11 hardware and Win7. Not really many people.
Realistically they would need to either drop support for Dx9 or do all three. I can understand ANet if they don't want to handle three APIs just to please all.
DX9/DX10 is a good enough compromise to me.
I like that you point at tesselation alot :P. The reason I mention it so much is because it seems to be all that people care about from DX11. The average consumer realy doesn't care about the performance increases...they just want to see bricks shooting out of buildings like stray bullets. Looks cool to them. Ofcourse DX11 isn't just tesselation and the features you talked about sound great...but you ahve to remember this must be done on a larger scale for gw2...and for any mmo. So yes you can have leaves dancing a merry jig across your face for hours on end...in a standalone title like Crysis 2 or Battlefield 3, but in an mmo where information, such as these leaves dancing, must be updated in realtime back and forth between client and server it becomes more of a task. Because player A sees these leaves dancing the server has to make sure that player B can see them as well. it's not so much of can our hardware handle it...its more of can servers keep up with DX11. The other part is that all the performance advantages we gain from DX11 are almost negated entirely by large scale MMO's like GW2. Sure the game will run incredibly fast...but stuff 300-500 people on a WvW map and have them all grouped up in a big cluster fuck of awesome ass-raping...and there goes all that performance you gained. The architecture can handle it just fine...the servers are a different story. Data being pushed through a stream is always the same. You use skill A and the server has to make sure that everyone knows that you used skill A and every one has to see the particle effect for skill A. It has to determine if it should fire off the DX9 or DX11 shader depending on the players settings. It's alot of thinking for a server to have to do.
That's pretty much the point I was getting at. DX11 just isn't viable for an MMO quite yet. In the future when server technology evolves a bit more...yes.
So wrong.... If the tech is there, I want it.
Also:
For The Secret World, Funcom has implemented DirectX 11, allowing the firm “to push the technology even further.”
“It’s easy to say you’re running a game in DirectX 11, but that doesn’t necessarily mean it looks better,” he continued, referring to the API’s efficient, performance-improving technology.
“You actually need to put some work into it, so the main thing we’re doing that really adds up is Tessellation, where instead of just having a texture that pretends to have geometry, which is normally a Normal Map, we take that texture and generate a Displacement Map that then generates geometry at run-time, so it’s not just the pebbles on the road that from certain angles look like they have depth and volume, we actually take that fake depth and volume and convert it to real geometry.”
My understanding is that DX10 will be supported but perhaps no option to enable in the beta builds. At the very least I would love to see solid DX10 options. Infinitely better than DX9. I've only seen basic elements from DX11 added to any mmo thus far.
Actually, no. Making a DirectX 10 game at this point would be catastrophically stupid. The problem is that DX10 isn't backward compatible, so you have to make both a DX10 and DX9 code path, or else make it so that no one running XP or older hardware can play your game. DirectX 11 doesn't have such problems.
As for DirectX 11, it depends on what features they wanted to implement. If they're not going to use anything that isn't already in DirectX 9.0c, then why go DX11? Besides, the only important graphical feature that DX11 added was tessellation.
"DirectX 10 will be supported. It will not be required."
__________________
Gaile Gray
Support Liaison
ArenaNet
That's a sufficiently confused answer as to make it sound like she doesn't know what it uses, either. My best guess is that she means that if you have a DirectX 10 video card, it will work, because it also supports earlier versions of DirectX. Even if you want to use some features that are present in DX10 or 10.1 but not any features specific to DX11, you'd make it a DirectX 11 game, if only so that it suffices to code everything once rather than twice.
----
"Not sure why everyone is so bent out of shape about no DX11 support. Sure DX11 gives tessalation, but that's honestly the only advantage."
There are a few other things such as order-independent transparency (so that you can have several transparent objects in front of each other), but tessellation is the only important graphical feature. Supposedly there is some stuff in DX11 to make it easier to make the game scale well to many processor cores.
"Besides you have to account for the fact that not all cards that are currently in users systems support DX11. There are a large number of users who have dx11 ready cards, but you can't discount the minority. On top of that DX11 isnt something you can just plug in and go. Their entire engine has to be redone to work around dx11 and have fallbacks for DX10 and 9."
DirectX 11 is backward compatible at least to 9.0c, and possibly further. If you code a game once in DX11, and it sees DX9.0c hardware, it disables the DX10 and later graphical features and still works. DX10 notably couldn't do this, which was one of the reasons why it never caught on. Another was that it didn't really have a point, as none of the graphical features it introduced were worthwhile. And then there was also the Vista requirement. But I digress.
That said, depending on how much code they're reusing from the GW1 game engine, it might have saved a lot of work just to make the game DX9.0c.
"DX11 is way more than just tessellation. For GW2 you could have the shadow of individual leaves reflecting and dancing on your face as the sun glares through. Some shadows stretching and falling leaves dance with their shadows on the ground."
Other graphical features, yes. Other important graphical features, no. Shadows of individual leaves would just be more stuff that everyone would have to turn off because it's too demanding for current hardware. And wouldn't look terribly nice even if it weren't.
You can guys expect DX11 support sometime in future. My opinion is that they have greater issues than this particular, heck many even complained about performance issues within the game. Have a patience guys, let them optimize it first.
Well was in beta of Gw2 for 4 months or more and i cant manage to get past first zone becasue the game looks so bad with maxed out graphics. Even forcing AO and Aniostroping makes it bearable.
Problem is with the consistency of the models, textures and shaders. Game feels like it was developed 5 years ago. Art sure is amazing but what if the models look so simple it bleeds your eyes out and lack of proper shadows kills the immersion.
After playing TSW on max details in dx11 + teslation with 60-100 fps in any zone or mass pvp (150+ ppl) w/o fps drop below 60 EVER.
In GW2 if you max out everything the game strugles like it wants to die, and it dont really looks good or anything. It feels like it was done for 5 year old hardware. No mater how good PC you got it wont make much of a diference.
Maybe it gets slightly better later on but i just cant make myself play a game that forfits such obvious benefits of using modern technology like sinple ambient occlusion or high resolution textures, natural looking trees, shaders etc...
game runs well here but i got a pretty good rig... DX11 usually gives "worse" performance in games or pretty much the same performance as dx9 but you get some nifty effects in dx11 dx9 cannot do.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Well was in beta of Gw2 for 4 months or more and i cant manage to get past first zone becasue the game looks so bad with maxed out graphics. Even forcing AO and Aniostroping makes it bearable.
Problem is with the consistency of the models, textures and shaders. Game feels like it was developed 5 years ago. Art sure is amazing but what if the models look so simple it bleeds your eyes out and lack of proper shadows kills the immersion.
After playing TSW on max details in dx11 + teslation with 60-100 fps in any zone or mass pvp (150+ ppl) w/o fps drop below 60 EVER.
In GW2 if you max out everything the game strugles like it wants to die, and it dont really looks good or anything. It feels like it was done for 5 year old hardware. No mater how good PC you got it wont make much of a diference.
Maybe it gets slightly better later on but i just cant make myself play a game that forfits such obvious benefits of using modern technology like sinple ambient occlusion or high resolution textures, natural looking trees, shaders etc...
What is it with the graphics of this game? I can't put my finger on it, but the models look so flat almost like I'm playing a game from a decade a go. I don't know how to put my finger on it. I just don't understand why everyone keeps saying the graphics are so great.
What is it with the graphics of this game? I can't put my finger on it, but the models look so flat almost like I'm playing a game from a decade a go. I don't know how to put my finger on it. I just don't understand why everyone keeps saying the graphics are so great.
think you started your warcraft client by mistake.. or really don't remember what models looked like a decade ago.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
What is it with the graphics of this game? I can't put my finger on it, but the models look so flat almost like I'm playing a game from a decade a go. I don't know how to put my finger on it. I just don't understand why everyone keeps saying the graphics are so great.
think you started your warcraft client by mistake.. or really don't remember what models looked like a decade ago.
Funny. "Almost" like a decade ago. Key word being "almost." So, yes, around the time of WoW or EQ2 launching. The models look paper thin. Does no one else agree?
What is it with the graphics of this game? I can't put my finger on it, but the models look so flat almost like I'm playing a game from a decade a go. I don't know how to put my finger on it. I just don't understand why everyone keeps saying the graphics are so great.
think you started your warcraft client by mistake.. or really don't remember what models looked like a decade ago.
Funny. "Almost" like a decade ago. Key word being "almost." So, yes, around the time of WoW or EQ2 launching. The models look paper thin. Does no one else agree?
no clue what you mean by "paper thin"
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Comments
Lulz.
Honestly, I'm unhappy with it too. I'm guessing it's becuase lighting and shading tend to be one of the things that KILLS framerate, so DX11 tends to mean the game runs slower. /Shrug. We can hope they'll add support eventualy, WoW and other games have.
Why are you disappointed when they have stated GW2 won't use DX 11 long before the first beta?
Not sure why everyone is so bent out of shape about no DX11 support. Sure DX11 gives tessalation, but that's honestly the only advantage. Aside from that there is nothing you can do with DX11 that you can't do in 10 or 9. The only thing is it has to be programmed differently. Your hlsl libraries have to be shuffled a bit and, bam, same results. DX11 is a bit more optimized to run certain shaders, but the actual advantages over 9 or 10 are actually pretty minimal. Want to know a secret. When crysis 2 was released the game looked pretty damn awesome(not as good as crysis 1 imo) but it was only running DX9 and every shader, with the exception of per-pixel bokeh depth of field and tesselation, was exactly the same. There was almost no graphical difference other than my bricks looked brickier...
Besides you have to account for the fact that not all cards that are currently in users systems support DX11. There are a large number of users who have dx11 ready cards, but you can't discount the minority. On top of that DX11 isnt something you can just plug in and go. Their entire engine has to be redone to work around dx11 and have fallbacks for DX10 and 9. So it's not like something they can throw in last minute. We see how well that went with crysis 2. So if it's not in there at launch, chances are it will never be there,
so what if your bricks dont stick out a bit. The game is awesome by itself and looks incredible in DX9. Besides DX11 is still very unstable when being used at its full potential. Not only that its implementation is a bit fishy and there has yet to be a developer who can effectively implement it into a game. Crytek and DICE games had some trouble figuring out wtf to do with tesselation. Works great for bricks and oceans...but what the heck else can we realy use it on effectively without increasing geometry beyond the realtime cache.
So gw2 has no dx11 support...youll just have to get over it mates.
EDIT: and besides, even if they did add dx11 support the game would look no different as their models arent even optimized to accept proper tesselation.
MMO's are the ark of the gaming world. Let it take us in new directions.
Right, I totally forgot about the Direct X 11 Crysis (2).
You can guys expect DX11 support sometime in future. My opinion is that they have greater issues than this particular, heck many even complained about performance issues within the game. Have a patience guys, let them optimize it first.
Main MMO at the moment: Guild Wars 2
Waiting for: Pathfinder Online
For the technical blind yes. For everyone else Crysis2 is still behind Crysis1 and Warhead by large. Not the engine but the used graphic fidelity. Especialy lightning and reflections as shadows got toned down a lot and have been not real time interacting / calculated at many scenes. You know the things DX10 and 11 do better, exactly the things you want to use dx10 / 11 for. The things DX9 can't render fluid even with raw gpu / cpu power in 5 years.
DX11 is way more than just tessellation. For GW2 you could have the shadow of individual leaves reflecting and dancing on your face as the sun glares through. Some shadows stretching and falling leaves dance with their shadows on the ground. The difference from dx10 to 11? Shader 5.0 and the vastly improved multi-threading. Which means roughly by crytek terms 30% more leaves reflecting on water, spinning shadows for the same power!
For a MMO that means i could have dynamic shadows interacting with a torch for a raid of 20 players not just a group. On a medicore DX11 card.
Yes this is however true, but as already said, DX11 isn't about tesselation only.It's a pure money thing.
You have really "bad" lightning, reflections and shadows with DX9, but everyone can run these settings.
You can get most effects good enough with DX10. You only need Vista / Win7. Most people should fill in these requirements today.
You can get the most out of DX11 but DX11 requires DX11 hardware and Win7. Not really many people.
Realistically they would need to either drop support for Dx9 or do all three. I can understand ANet if they don't want to handle three APIs just to please all.
DX9/DX10 is a good enough compromise to me.
I like that you point at tesselation alot :P. The reason I mention it so much is because it seems to be all that people care about from DX11. The average consumer realy doesn't care about the performance increases...they just want to see bricks shooting out of buildings like stray bullets. Looks cool to them. Ofcourse DX11 isn't just tesselation and the features you talked about sound great...but you ahve to remember this must be done on a larger scale for gw2...and for any mmo. So yes you can have leaves dancing a merry jig across your face for hours on end...in a standalone title like Crysis 2 or Battlefield 3, but in an mmo where information, such as these leaves dancing, must be updated in realtime back and forth between client and server it becomes more of a task. Because player A sees these leaves dancing the server has to make sure that player B can see them as well. it's not so much of can our hardware handle it...its more of can servers keep up with DX11. The other part is that all the performance advantages we gain from DX11 are almost negated entirely by large scale MMO's like GW2. Sure the game will run incredibly fast...but stuff 300-500 people on a WvW map and have them all grouped up in a big cluster fuck of awesome ass-raping...and there goes all that performance you gained. The architecture can handle it just fine...the servers are a different story. Data being pushed through a stream is always the same. You use skill A and the server has to make sure that everyone knows that you used skill A and every one has to see the particle effect for skill A. It has to determine if it should fire off the DX9 or DX11 shader depending on the players settings. It's alot of thinking for a server to have to do.
That's pretty much the point I was getting at. DX11 just isn't viable for an MMO quite yet. In the future when server technology evolves a bit more...yes.
MMO's are the ark of the gaming world. Let it take us in new directions.
Uhm? Are you trolling? Sorry but what the...? This statement was ridiculous. You don't sync such things. NEVER not even in an FPS.
Oh and then magic ponys! Server goes oh oh. totally. Seriously..what the hell did i just read? So wrong on so many levels.
I'm done here, *facepalm*
You clearly don't know what you're talking about. Hopefully this beta weekend will give you calrity and possibly an answer to your question.
REally... dx10 was the worst dx ever released, its hardly anything of an improvement from dx9 with few lighting buffs loss or no change in fps (what it did do was make it easier on devs if they are making only dx10+ games, and of course in a true fation of a monoploy in reality makign it 10 times harder because now you had to make both dx9 shaders and dx10+ shaders for everythign in the game for backwards compatbility. The REAL fix make all games in the future dx9 games inreality with dx 10 and 11 code "stuck" on them). pretty much might as well have dx9 to dx11 as 10 is w/e.
I said it long ago don't even mind what dx your card has , if you have the fps go ahead and bumb itup you might get a small improvement, but overall it isn't worth much. (high character details and ultra textures >>>> dx upgrade most of the time).
The positive aspect if the shader code is implemented well you often will see improvement visually (small to mod) for little to no fps change (possible small bump). Additionally, AA etc. often are more resource effective with dx10+.
It appears that gw2 will be dx10 (stuck-on or full coded) but not avalible for the first big beta (not an awful idea). Oh and while dx11 offers features that preform well visually (with preformence hits) it uses the base base that 10 does (dx 11 is kinda like dx10 with bloom [not actually boom, thast was an example, of bonus features that you pay for in preformence]) .
PS for mmos your not going to utilze much of anything in dx10 and 11. Mainly improved shader coding. some lighting and effects.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
Maybe they're going to surprise us with DX12 support.
So wrong.... If the tech is there, I want it.
Also:
For The Secret World, Funcom has implemented DirectX 11, allowing the firm “to push the technology even further.”
“It’s easy to say you’re running a game in DirectX 11, but that doesn’t necessarily mean it looks better,” he continued, referring to the API’s efficient, performance-improving technology.
“You actually need to put some work into it, so the main thing we’re doing that really adds up is Tessellation, where instead of just having a texture that pretends to have geometry, which is normally a Normal Map, we take that texture and generate a Displacement Map that then generates geometry at run-time, so it’s not just the pebbles on the road that from certain angles look like they have depth and volume, we actually take that fake depth and volume and convert it to real geometry.”
just look here
seriously, even AoC has DX11 and it is almost 4 years old...
I'm sad, but I think the artstyle will help negate the lack of DX11.
That's a sufficiently confused answer as to make it sound like she doesn't know what it uses, either. My best guess is that she means that if you have a DirectX 10 video card, it will work, because it also supports earlier versions of DirectX. Even if you want to use some features that are present in DX10 or 10.1 but not any features specific to DX11, you'd make it a DirectX 11 game, if only so that it suffices to code everything once rather than twice.
----
"Not sure why everyone is so bent out of shape about no DX11 support. Sure DX11 gives tessalation, but that's honestly the only advantage."
There are a few other things such as order-independent transparency (so that you can have several transparent objects in front of each other), but tessellation is the only important graphical feature. Supposedly there is some stuff in DX11 to make it easier to make the game scale well to many processor cores.
"Besides you have to account for the fact that not all cards that are currently in users systems support DX11. There are a large number of users who have dx11 ready cards, but you can't discount the minority. On top of that DX11 isnt something you can just plug in and go. Their entire engine has to be redone to work around dx11 and have fallbacks for DX10 and 9."
DirectX 11 is backward compatible at least to 9.0c, and possibly further. If you code a game once in DX11, and it sees DX9.0c hardware, it disables the DX10 and later graphical features and still works. DX10 notably couldn't do this, which was one of the reasons why it never caught on. Another was that it didn't really have a point, as none of the graphical features it introduced were worthwhile. And then there was also the Vista requirement. But I digress.
That said, depending on how much code they're reusing from the GW1 game engine, it might have saved a lot of work just to make the game DX9.0c.
"DX11 is way more than just tessellation. For GW2 you could have the shadow of individual leaves reflecting and dancing on your face as the sun glares through. Some shadows stretching and falling leaves dance with their shadows on the ground."
Other graphical features, yes. Other important graphical features, no. Shadows of individual leaves would just be more stuff that everyone would have to turn off because it's too demanding for current hardware. And wouldn't look terribly nice even if it weren't.
Will probably just do an update 6 months after release kind of like Crysis did.
Any evidence of this?
I have not heard even a hint.
Well was in beta of Gw2 for 4 months or more and i cant manage to get past first zone becasue the game looks so bad with maxed out graphics. Even forcing AO and Aniostroping makes it bearable.
Problem is with the consistency of the models, textures and shaders. Game feels like it was developed 5 years ago. Art sure is amazing but what if the models look so simple it bleeds your eyes out and lack of proper shadows kills the immersion.
After playing TSW on max details in dx11 + teslation with 60-100 fps in any zone or mass pvp (150+ ppl) w/o fps drop below 60 EVER.
In GW2 if you max out everything the game strugles like it wants to die, and it dont really looks good or anything. It feels like it was done for 5 year old hardware. No mater how good PC you got it wont make much of a diference.
Maybe it gets slightly better later on but i just cant make myself play a game that forfits such obvious benefits of using modern technology like sinple ambient occlusion or high resolution textures, natural looking trees, shaders etc...
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Im running it at max right now and its super smooth
game runs well here but i got a pretty good rig... DX11 usually gives "worse" performance in games or pretty much the same performance as dx9 but you get some nifty effects in dx11 dx9 cannot do.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
What is it with the graphics of this game? I can't put my finger on it, but the models look so flat almost like I'm playing a game from a decade a go. I don't know how to put my finger on it. I just don't understand why everyone keeps saying the graphics are so great.
think you started your warcraft client by mistake.. or really don't remember what models looked like a decade ago.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
I dunno the game's graphic's look great to me.
Funny. "Almost" like a decade ago. Key word being "almost." So, yes, around the time of WoW or EQ2 launching. The models look paper thin. Does no one else agree?
no clue what you mean by "paper thin"
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Two-dimensional. Lacking depth.
Anet didn't send you your 3d glasses?
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.