All of this stuff will be fixed in a patch just before the game goes F2P in early 2014!
Just a (sarcastic humor) warning folks, dont go falling in love with any skill on the grinding,,, i mean skill wheel within the first year because fudgecom will likely still be using subscribers as beta testers and things will get broke,,, i mean will change...:)
I reckon that the animations that are currently in the game, that we saw from beta are the ones that they fully intended to be in at release.......... until the feedback from players saying that they are clunky and awkward looking en-masse.
Now they are changing them.
Well, at least they are listening.....
As a former video game design student. Animations are pretty much the last thing you worry about graphically ... when we budget its for animations to be handled last. There is a couple of reasons for this:
1) We want to handle all the animations at once. So it would be redudent and non-cost effective to say do animations in the middle then program more into the game and have to bring back the animation team to complete said animations. Most animators are paid for the length of time they are working. So doing this would mean you'd have to retain the animation team for essentially doing nothing.
2) The nature of graphical effects may require changing the animation.
3) Programming may interfere with the animation requiring you to change said animation. (this is rare but happens more then people realize)
Same i work for IT-Consulting Company for Infrastructure Maintenance and i had my nose into a Game Development Company. Its pretty much like you described it.
The guys to make stuff pretty and shiny are the last to get the call for duty after pretty much everything else is done. IF they get to complete the job then is a diffrent story.
The problem is that people have been complaining about the animations for over a year, if you go on Youtube which i do to get a feel for the general audience's first reactions to new mmo trailers, the majority not already fans think the combat looks like ass, it is costing Funcom new converts. The modern looks means they cant hide behind a stylistic, fantasy or sci fi look, the uncanny valley or worse cheap impression is going to be their unless they do more than other new mmos have to. Personaly I dont think the technology is there yet for a modern mmo.
For their sake, I hope so. The casting animation is stupid silly.
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
I reckon that the animations that are currently in the game, that we saw from beta are the ones that they fully intended to be in at release.......... until the feedback from players saying that they are clunky and awkward looking en-masse.
Now they are changing them.
Well, at least they are listening.....
As a former video game design student. Animations are pretty much the last thing you worry about graphically ... when we budget its for animations to be handled last. There is a couple of reasons for this:
1) We want to handle all the animations at once. So it would be redudent and non-cost effective to say do animations in the middle then program more into the game and have to bring back the animation team to complete said animations. Most animators are paid for the length of time they are working. So doing this would mean you'd have to retain the animation team for essentially doing nothing.
2) The nature of graphical effects may require changing the animation.
3) Programming may interfere with the animation requiring you to change said animation. (this is rare but happens more then people realize)
Same i work for IT-Consulting Company for Infrastructure Maintenance and i had my nose into a Game Development Company. Its pretty much like you described it.
The guys to make stuff pretty and shiny are the last to get the call for duty after pretty much everything else is done. IF they get to complete the job then is a diffrent story.
Just wanted to post in the non troll/fanboi side argument in this thread. Most have ignored it since it doesnt fit their snarky feeling on the developer.
Ya right. I'll believe it when I see it. These are the animations you're all getting when the game launches. He's full of shit, just like the rest of the spin doctors over at Funcom. Prove me wrong TSW! I'm seriously...please, because I want to like your game.
Here's hoping. I was very excited about the game until I saw some actual gameplay footage. No lighting affects on character models. Sound effects that sound like they were made by (possibly for) deaf people...seriously, the "click, click" of a gun shot in that game is just sad. Terrible, clunky animations. I'd love to chalk it up to "just a beta" but looking at other games on schedule for a similar, or possibly even later release than the Secret World are looking and sounding a lot better in their betas.
the way TSW is doing things is: they are creating the content first, the game was already finished (content wise) sometime ago, this was their primary goal, to make polished content, that is also why some content was cut, because it would not ready till launch.
now that the game is finished (again, content wise), they are just working on animations (character and cutscenes), balance of the game builds/skills and bugs.
you should expect good amount of polished content through the whole game, a little more bugs on launch than SW:TOR, and animations on par with AoC animations.
I can understand why they're doing it that way, specially considering that one of the big complains about AoC was lack of content, and not only on endgame, there were at least two big 5+ level gaps where you had nothing to do but repeat the same repeatable quests over and over before you got high enough level to get new quests.
If the Content Team and the Art and Animation Team are the same people, then Funcom has bigger problems than jerky, ugly character movement.
Definitely adds to the pile of reasons why I won't be preordering this title until I've gotten a chance to see it first hand. Funcom's track record of doing stuff like this is too long and I'd rather wait to play it once its in the state it really deserves to be in.
I always wondered if I would have enjoyed AOC more had I joined it about a year or so after launch.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I read somewhere that there are still many placeholder animations in Anarchy Online. I think the floating text that you see appear over your head when you use special attacks or martial arts attacks were supposed to be placeholders for actual animations. How long has anarchy online been around? I believe they're still using these "placeholders."
I frankly could care less about character animations or graphics in general for that matter.
If the content is engagin and character development is half as thought provoking as they are touting it to be I'll play this game, if not, there are plenty of others out there.
I can't think of a single example of a game I quit playing or refused to play based on looks and animations alone. Probably cause I grew up on a diet of Atari and a shelves full of PC games that could all fit on a 1g USB drive now.
As for Funcom's track record, nuts to that. Inthe realm of music there are literally hundreds if not thousands of one hit wonders or bands that released one trancendant album and the rest of their catalog being pure shit. Perhaps this is Funcom's magnum opus, everything is conjecture till open beta.
This is ALWAYS stated before a game launches, and then it launches with the exact same animations that were seen in beta. What you see now is likely the finished product. I wouldn't get your hopes up.
This is ALWAYS stated before a game launches, and then it launches with the exact same animations that were seen in beta. What you see now is likely the finished product. I wouldn't get your hopes up.
right on.. its a Failcoms game afterall.
nothing will be changed after release..
haters gonna hate.
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
I frankly could care less about character animations or graphics in general for that matter.
Really? If I had to continuously watch that retarded casting animation currently in game, I'd launch my 'puter out the window.
You should at least hope they fix that one, it's ridiculous.
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
Ya really, I mean I just finished playing thru Ogre Battle from the ps1 for like the 6th time. Combat animations from that are limited to maybe 6 for 30+ hrs of gameplay.
Didn't make the game any less fun, for me at least, ymmv
I read somewhere that there are still many placeholder animations in Anarchy Online. I think the floating text that you see appear over your head when you use special attacks or martial arts attacks were supposed to be placeholders for actual animations. How long has anarchy online been around? I believe they're still using these "placeholders."
HA! AO Animations. What were there like 6......EVER? My Advie in Wolf Morph...Everything from every attack, buff, cast heal everything was a back arch-hunch motion or a bite. If not in wolf morph. It was Poke Poke Slash, Poke Poke Slash, Poke Poke Slash (did I miss one?)
I remember taking my Engi through TL4 using Mochies to cast a slayer. I'd take max level RK mish. !st mish I had that was full of Slayers, I got to enjoy my Slayer playing "Slayer Droid Patty Cake" with the other slayers.
Ya really, I mean I just finished playing thru Ogre Battle from the ps1 for like the 6th time. Combat animations from that are limited to maybe 6 for 30+ hrs of gameplay.
Didn't make the game any less fun, for me at least, ymmv
I find the casting animation one of the most annoying looking animations I've ever seen but maybe that's just me.
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
Ya really, I mean I just finished playing thru Ogre Battle from the ps1 for like the 6th time. Combat animations from that are limited to maybe 6 for 30+ hrs of gameplay.
Didn't make the game any less fun, for me at least, ymmv
Graphics is not cut and dry like you make it to be. Certain genres and certain game's graphics ages much better than other, especially graphics that is not meant to be realistic in the first place, like this one and many other 2d rpgs of the days gone by.
But try to load up Half Life 1 now... or Wing Commander 3 (the space battle part) or any other game of old that went with the realistic approach (like TSW uses) and your eyes will bleed in 3 seconds flat.
But hey, if you can do that... more power to you. I certainly can't, not without brain pain.
Now, not trying to say gameplay is less important, but that graphics need to be a certain minimum or then it detracts heavily from the mentioned gameplay, in my opinion at least.
"If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"
Age of Conan was broken promise after broken promise, anyone remember how Funcom spouted over and over how AoC was going to be for mature audiences ? Yet all of that mature content was chopped out and ignored.
... so you don't consider nudity and decapitations to be mature content? ...
Anything you don't like before launch is a placeholder. Anything you don't like after launch is being fixed next patch. Anything you still don't like will be addressed first expansion. After that, who cares, you've given them hundreds of dollars by then.
I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.
They're not forcing you to buy the game heck if you already had the chance to play it consider yourself much more informed then most.
Animations arent key to a games developement is feature that has to be polished before lunch because the timing for animations deal with cast times so it affect dps etc.. So this falls into one of the last things that finalized before lunch.
"Making animations for over 500 abilities is quite the task, therefore we have to use some placeholder animations on some of the abilities when showing a game still in production. We are working on it, and it will be amazing "
This is good news for those who think that animations are too poor to enjoy the game :>
WIth any other developer i would have believed it, but with Funcom after Age of Conan...nope not believing it. Really they made so many promises for Age of Conan and we are still waiting for them to show up in the game! Not gonna believe a word from them untill i see the game once its retail.
Comments
This! No matter what Age of Conan was at launch and all the bugs and issues it suffered from!
If one thing was polished and well done in that game, it were the animations!
So in that respect.... I have faith that the animations will be sorted before launch.
Bah dont worry folks, its funcom!
All of this stuff will be fixed in a patch just before the game goes F2P in early 2014!
Just a (sarcastic humor) warning folks, dont go falling in love with any skill on the grinding,,, i mean skill wheel within the first year because fudgecom will likely still be using subscribers as beta testers and things will get broke,,, i mean will change...:)
Playing GW2..
Same i work for IT-Consulting Company for Infrastructure Maintenance and i had my nose into a Game Development Company. Its pretty much like you described it.
The guys to make stuff pretty and shiny are the last to get the call for duty after pretty much everything else is done. IF they get to complete the job then is a diffrent story.
uh ooh here come the usual funcom excuses. This game will be a mess just like their other mmo's.
The problem is that people have been complaining about the animations for over a year, if you go on Youtube which i do to get a feel for the general audience's first reactions to new mmo trailers, the majority not already fans think the combat looks like ass, it is costing Funcom new converts. The modern looks means they cant hide behind a stylistic, fantasy or sci fi look, the uncanny valley or worse cheap impression is going to be their unless they do more than other new mmos have to. Personaly I dont think the technology is there yet for a modern mmo.
For their sake, I hope so. The casting animation is stupid silly.
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
I can understand some casting animations being placeholders, but do they really want me the believe the JUMPING animation is too?
Caused it looked horrible last time I checked and that is such an universal animation that was prolly done quite early.
"If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"
Just wanted to post in the non troll/fanboi side argument in this thread. Most have ignored it since it doesnt fit their snarky feeling on the developer.
Ya right. I'll believe it when I see it. These are the animations you're all getting when the game launches. He's full of shit, just like the rest of the spin doctors over at Funcom. Prove me wrong TSW! I'm seriously...please, because I want to like your game.
Joined - July 2004
If the Content Team and the Art and Animation Team are the same people, then Funcom has bigger problems than jerky, ugly character movement.
Joined - July 2004
Definitely adds to the pile of reasons why I won't be preordering this title until I've gotten a chance to see it first hand. Funcom's track record of doing stuff like this is too long and I'd rather wait to play it once its in the state it really deserves to be in.
I always wondered if I would have enjoyed AOC more had I joined it about a year or so after launch.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I read somewhere that there are still many placeholder animations in Anarchy Online. I think the floating text that you see appear over your head when you use special attacks or martial arts attacks were supposed to be placeholders for actual animations. How long has anarchy online been around? I believe they're still using these "placeholders."
I frankly could care less about character animations or graphics in general for that matter.
If the content is engagin and character development is half as thought provoking as they are touting it to be I'll play this game, if not, there are plenty of others out there.
I can't think of a single example of a game I quit playing or refused to play based on looks and animations alone. Probably cause I grew up on a diet of Atari and a shelves full of PC games that could all fit on a 1g USB drive now.
As for Funcom's track record, nuts to that. Inthe realm of music there are literally hundreds if not thousands of one hit wonders or bands that released one trancendant album and the rest of their catalog being pure shit. Perhaps this is Funcom's magnum opus, everything is conjecture till open beta.
right on.. its a Failcoms game afterall.
nothing will be changed after release..
haters gonna hate.
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
Really? If I had to continuously watch that retarded casting animation currently in game, I'd launch my 'puter out the window.
You should at least hope they fix that one, it's ridiculous.
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
Ya really, I mean I just finished playing thru Ogre Battle from the ps1 for like the 6th time. Combat animations from that are limited to maybe 6 for 30+ hrs of gameplay.
Didn't make the game any less fun, for me at least, ymmv
Vid for example
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=ogre%20battle%20ps1&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCwQtwIwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D1ndK8DlWy9I&ei=1MmWT5-hEOji2QXg_oSNDg&usg=AFQjCNHKMy476fNr6eC7RdRpyT2Mj82Bww&cad=rja
HA! AO Animations. What were there like 6......EVER? My Advie in Wolf Morph...Everything from every attack, buff, cast heal everything was a back arch-hunch motion or a bite. If not in wolf morph. It was Poke Poke Slash, Poke Poke Slash, Poke Poke Slash (did I miss one?)
I remember taking my Engi through TL4 using Mochies to cast a slayer. I'd take max level RK mish. !st mish I had that was full of Slayers, I got to enjoy my Slayer playing "Slayer Droid Patty Cake" with the other slayers.
Alright well, if ya like 'em, ya like 'em.
I find the casting animation one of the most annoying looking animations I've ever seen but maybe that's just me.
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
Eh, too easy.
Graphics is not cut and dry like you make it to be. Certain genres and certain game's graphics ages much better than other, especially graphics that is not meant to be realistic in the first place, like this one and many other 2d rpgs of the days gone by.
But try to load up Half Life 1 now... or Wing Commander 3 (the space battle part) or any other game of old that went with the realistic approach (like TSW uses) and your eyes will bleed in 3 seconds flat.
But hey, if you can do that... more power to you. I certainly can't, not without brain pain.
Now, not trying to say gameplay is less important, but that graphics need to be a certain minimum or then it detracts heavily from the mentioned gameplay, in my opinion at least.
"If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"
... so you don't consider nudity and decapitations to be mature content? ...
- Leiros
MMO-Speak 101
Anything you don't like before launch is a placeholder. Anything you don't like after launch is being fixed next patch. Anything you still don't like will be addressed first expansion. After that, who cares, you've given them hundreds of dollars by then.
I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.
They're not forcing you to buy the game heck if you already had the chance to play it consider yourself much more informed then most.
Animations arent key to a games developement is feature that has to be polished before lunch because the timing for animations deal with cast times so it affect dps etc.. So this falls into one of the last things that finalized before lunch.
WIth any other developer i would have believed it, but with Funcom after Age of Conan...nope not believing it. Really they made so many promises for Age of Conan and we are still waiting for them to show up in the game! Not gonna believe a word from them untill i see the game once its retail.
Game is out in a few weeks. That Funcom post is damage control.