If you don't like using a keyboard please go back to console games and DC Universe. I don't mean to be rude but I feel that it is people like you that are ruining the MMORPG genre. MMOs are supposed to be role playing games/worlds - not action games.
Ever stop and think a MMO could be both a game/world and an action game?
MIND BLOWN
Then make a MMOFPS and stop bastardizing MMORPGs.
In the words of Mc Enroe 'you can't be serious?' Go back to MUDs (joke) I guess. Actaully I guess that should be go back to pen and paper RPGS. Most advances in human development have been basterdisations. Games are no different.
I guess you wont be playing GW2 with it's active dogding and blocking and active (albeit 'soft') aiming will not be a game you play, a shame.
As for the idea that anyting one does not personally enjoy just should not be developed thats bullcrap too. I don't like period dramas but don't campaign to have them banned. Some while ago someone bsaterdised SiFi and period and came up with 'steampunk' again a genre I also dont particulary enjoy, does it bother me that others enjoy it? In a word, no.
If you don't like using a keyboard please go back to console games and DC Universe. I don't mean to be rude but I feel that it is people like you that are ruining the MMORPG genre. MMOs are supposed to be role playing games/worlds - not action games.
Then go back to your "roleplaying" MMO? GW2 is clearly a very action oriented game.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
I play both console games (XBOX and PS3) and PC games. But with MMO's on PC I rarely consider a gamepad as viable. Simply because I don't want to have more controllers then necessary for the same game. The keyboard+mouse are needed regardless (chat and drag 'n drop), so using gamepad in addition to this is far from efficient. Having to lay down a gamepad so I can chat would annoy me to no end.
Add to that that GW2 caters to FPS style movement and reaction of your toon, coupled with 10+ keybinds it just means that keyboard+mouse is the most efficient. But I don't see this as a requirement for enjoying the game though. Friends of mine are clickers, who use barely keybinds. Thanks to me they got a little used to wasd (so they at least can walk back without turning around lol), but I'm afraid that GW2 will present a tough challenge for them.
If you are really set on using a gamepad, use its macro's to map keybinds. Making the devs develop gamepad control is a waste of development time imo. Even if you use voicechat+gamepad, you won't be able to do without keyboard entirely.
there is a small team working on a GW2 console port, Controler support in a MMORPG is kinda sketchy to me. Its the whole point of a MMO to be social? how do you plan on communicating with anyone on a controller?
On the keyboard perhaps?
Anyway I do not know how GW2 plays but I was thinking the other day how mmorpgs could improve combat so I thought they could make it more like Devil may cry or fighting games like Soul Caliber. A controller would be much better for that.
After reading you have to jump, dodge, move in GW2, I really hope it plays like an action game. And not press 1, 3,4,2,1,3,6, etc.
Balderdash! Key/Mouse action owns anyone with a controller! It has been proven time and time again. There is such an overabundance of proof on this it is not even worth siting it. You need to get out more.
Of course! I must have been winning all the time to other people with controllers then otherwise I must be crazy.. because beating keyboard with a controller is impossible apparently.
I was talking strictly MMO here, not FPS.
No, I'm not crazy and I'm not just making stuff up for the sake of it. I don't need citing or proof to your claim, I've already tried it myself. I wouldn't argue the point if I had been losing. Why would I want to keep using a controller if it wasn't working for me?
Keyboard turners and clickers say the same thing you know. Exactly the same thing. "It works for me" "I beat people all the time"
Yet when faced with anyone truely skilled, they get utterly destroyed and cry "Hack!" instantly.
In short, you may win.. in fact, I'd say you probably do win a fair amount more then you lose. However, never assume that makes you good.. because the *vast majority of MMO players are horrible*. I'd say 1% are decent, but honestly? I think I'm going a bit too high.
I never said I was good. I don't think I'm perfect and know I make user error mistakes, but I know those failings are down to 'me' not the control scheme I'm using. Practice makes perfect with everything. Keyboard people need to realise that the only reason they think controllers are bad is because they can't use them themselves, but that doesn't mean that other people havn't found ways to or taken the time to master them.
You're assuming I'm something I'm not here. In fact, PvP isn't even my primary focus in mmos. I rarely even talk to people in PvP whether I'm winning or losing. I don't try to boast about winning or anything like that, I've only said it here because I know that it's proof controllers are viable.
I agree with what you are saying. Keyboard users have a bad attitude though, they say controllers are crap and useless and we can't do as good with them. Controller users don't say that though, we just say that it works exactly the same if you are good with controllers. Many keyboard users are pretty ignorant and a little childish to be honest concerning this.
EDIT: For the record, I also hate games that were designed and dumbed down with controllers in mind. Drag and drop UIs are are far better than ones like skyrims.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
It won't work with a controler because you would have to wait for cooldowns. Therefore it can't be as fluent as a action game. DCU uses skillchains but they are repetitive ->boring. They would need one kind of abilities that loads up power and another kind that consums power. They need a new design but it's too late for that.
GW2 goes console for extra $$. Make yourself friend with the bastardization!
I agree, support for controllers should be built into the game.
As it is I will try Pinnacle to configure my Xbox Controller for play with the game. It's a lot of fun playing with the controller in Champions Online. It's a shame that more PC Gamers haven't embraced the change in market and still deride PC controllers.
I do agree , though, that developers should present a user interface and mouse/keyboard control scheme specific to the PC environment when creating games for ,or porting games to ,the platform.
there is a small team working on a GW2 console port, Controler support in a MMORPG is kinda sketchy to me. Its the whole point of a MMO to be social? how do you plan on communicating with anyone on a controller?
There is actually an undermount keyboard for xbox 360 controllers, it would blow minds if they could integrate that with the controller scheme for fast chatting rather than switching back to the keyboard. as well as voice chat.
there is a small team working on a GW2 console port, Controler support in a MMORPG is kinda sketchy to me. Its the whole point of a MMO to be social? how do you plan on communicating with anyone on a controller?
There is actually an undermount keyboard for xbox 360 controllers, it would blow minds if they could integrate that with the controller scheme for fast chatting rather than switching back to the keyboard. as well as voice chat.
Unless Console gamers are willing to buy a mouse and keyboard for their console to MMO one of two things must happen. Console gamers will lose more often as a keyboard and mouse give way more options and a smart gamer knows how to use that. Or they need to dumb down the interface to make a level playing field between the PC and console gamers and that just fails for the PC gamers as DCU proved. PC gamers like the options we have and dont like dumbed down UIs. It has never worked well and wont till developers find a new system that brings balance.
If you don't like using a keyboard please go back to console games and DC Universe. I don't mean to be rude but I feel that it is people like you that are ruining the MMORPG genre. MMOs are supposed to be role playing games/worlds - not action games.
The accessibility of controllers doesn't make a game more or less RPG worthy. The gameworld, community, and immersion factor of the gameplay will do that for you.
FFXI is a stellar MMORPG and was designed primarily for controllers. No one can say that game isn't immersive. To the opposite, all of us have a list of MMOs designed for kb/m that aren't immersive at all.
But I do understand where I think you are going here... MMOs have shown a larger focus on fluff than substance in the last 5 years to expand to larger, less RPG based, audiences.
I lament that fact, but don't see it changing until people stop supporting bad games.
If you don't like using a keyboard please go back to console games and DC Universe. I don't mean to be rude but I feel that it is people like you that are ruining the MMORPG genre. MMOs are supposed to be role playing games/worlds - not action games.
I think you missed his point. I agree with the OP because I have played games such as FFXI that offered the controller option. You can still use the keyboard if you like but that option was available to those who prefer a different play style. I personally liked the controler option but it really depends on the flow of the game and the rest of the UI for me. The only problem I see with the controller option is that it might force people into using "crutch" combinations simply out of laziness.
It was not until I started playing games like WoW that I actually started really using the keyboard and ever since that I can't stop.
I know you say you werent being rude but it's kind of harsh to say "people like you" that are ruining the game. Especially if the controller feature is an OPTION and not something people are forced to do. I personally like to be very active when playing mmorpgs, I love constant movement in pvp so I understand what he meant by "action games" when comparing with consol games. He was simply making a reference in which people would be able to better understand his perspective, if you disagree that's fine but bashing his opionon wasn't cool.
Nice post OP, I can't wait to see what's to come as well, and prepurchase is next week. /grin
Press keep getting invites to the betas, no wonder they would sell the beta access. I dont mean to be rude im glad you went in 2 times!! you must be very lucky *cough* part of the press, but yeah i guess a press person is better to inform others about the game and give it more hype?
Again im glad you went inside for the second time even if IS unfair, i guess why would they like to beta test with someone who didnt even play Guild Wars 1? is that how they think? thats how i think they are thinking i havent meet a single person, normal gamer that have been invited that is not friend of friend of someone who works for them or a press.
It's funny, conpanies have been making gamepads for the PC for almost as long as there have been consoles.
I had a gamepad I used for PC gaming when the PS1 was king of console gaming.
Some of you people act like the gamepad is something that has never been done before.
Breaking news! Gamepads for the PC are possibly older then a lot of the people screaming, "Noez, keepz your CONSOLE CONTROLLER out of my mmoz!".
Hello, ingnorant, illinformed masses, the only "console controller" I own is the one that came in the box with my xbox and PS3 COMPUTER ENTERTAINMENT SYSTEMS! My other "controller" happens to plug into, and work with, my PC, 360, PS2 and PS3; it only requires 2 diffierent plug ins for it to work on all those systems because 3 out of 4 of those systems all use the exact same USB interface. Funny how that works.
It's strange, I stopped using the wod controller to describe any form of a controller the day I upgraded from an atari to an NES. It's always been a gamepad, whether I used that gamepad to play on the PC or anything since nintendo started exporting the Famicon to the US. Because, you know, my mouse is as much a controller as my gamepad is. My mouse just happens to be shapped differently, and require LESS skill to use.
PS, my gamepad moves at the same speed as my mouse; that would be 2000 dpi, and I don't play games at 2000 dpi because it's overkill. 1200-1600 dpi is suffiicient, and my gamepad can move at those speeds as well.
GW2 isn't an FPS, so the whole BS gamepad vs controller arguement is pointless, because you can't debate preference. You'll use what you ENJOY and what is COMFORTABLE for YOU. Lots of people that need to get over themselves and the whole lolconsolegamersruinpcgames attitude. It's childish and moronic. I play games on just about every system out, and none are superior. Because they're made to be played for entertainment, and that means FUN.
^^^ a bunch of words falling on deaf ears and blind eyes. ^^^
About the controls stop over reacting.....it is still an overated tab lock target game
If u want a TRUE action game like u said then TERA it is....
Better combat
better graphics
Better art design
and ofc better pvp...SKILLED pvp
The bad of tera
Voice acting and the qests type
Tera is by far a better mmo gw2 is way overhyped and the blind fangirls wont accept anything negative about the game they all think gw2 is the second coming of christ well i played it and i say it is not the case.
No raids,no role,no dungeon...might sound cool for the casuals but dont expect the hardcores or mmo vets to stick with gw2 more than 2 month or even buying it.
Overhyped game just like aion was bak then and swtor is now.
Liked the article David, and i agree almost 100% on everything you say. I also would like that the party/group window could remain as the original design of GW. Hope ANet can see it also l8r in eventual polish runs.
Just cant agree with you on the "pad" issue. Gamepads should not ever be given support for mmorpgs. Why? Well, for the same reason they dont sell keyboards to play BF3 on the consoles...its not natural
About the controls stop over reacting.....it is still an overated tab lock target game
If u want a TRUE action game like u said then TERA it is....
Better combat
better graphics
Better art design
and ofc better pvp...SKILLED pvp
The bad of tera
Voice acting and the qests type
Tera is by far a better mmo gw2 is way overhyped and the blind fangirls wont accept anything negative about the game they all think gw2 is the second coming of christ well i played it and i say it is not the case.
No raids,no role,no dungeon...might sound cool for the casuals but dont expect the hardcores or mmo vets to stick with gw2 more than 2 month or even buying it.
Overhyped game just like aion was bak then and swtor is now.
Tera wins nuff said
considering you are posting on a gw2 article you must be bored playing aion 1.5.
tera has better graphics, but it doesn't matter if the game world is bland and uninteresting. Same for the aion like art style.
tera combat sucks considering you can't cast while moving it roots just like aion.
the PvP is nothing more than button mashing and gear based combat.
I am sure your kill 25 rats or 3 BAM are much more interesting than gw2.
not everybody likes raids and randomly less than 10% of gamers are raiders.
Tera is an MMO that failed in its own home turf and in Japan and it will fail in the west.
btw I can see all of this because I played Tera for 1.5 month and I ended up having more fun in aion.
I'm really excited about the release of guild wars 2 but It's rather annoying how there is no controller support. Everyone is talking trash about controllers as opposed to keyboard, but for me personally controller support would be much appreciated since after breaking my wrist a year ago i get intense pain in my wrist after gaming for more than 30 minutes with a keyboard.
Also pre-order in Best Buy Canada would be nice, so i can actually order before all the beta's are over
-Also i played TERA and the combat is better in terms of skill but on an equal note the skills and quests of gw2 are more appealing. If only GW2 didn't have so much mouse selecting...
Comments
In the words of Mc Enroe 'you can't be serious?' Go back to MUDs (joke) I guess. Actaully I guess that should be go back to pen and paper RPGS. Most advances in human development have been basterdisations. Games are no different.
I guess you wont be playing GW2 with it's active dogding and blocking and active (albeit 'soft') aiming will not be a game you play, a shame.
As for the idea that anyting one does not personally enjoy just should not be developed thats bullcrap too. I don't like period dramas but don't campaign to have them banned. Some while ago someone bsaterdised SiFi and period and came up with 'steampunk' again a genre I also dont particulary enjoy, does it bother me that others enjoy it? In a word, no.
Then go back to your "roleplaying" MMO? GW2 is clearly a very action oriented game.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
I play both console games (XBOX and PS3) and PC games. But with MMO's on PC I rarely consider a gamepad as viable. Simply because I don't want to have more controllers then necessary for the same game. The keyboard+mouse are needed regardless (chat and drag 'n drop), so using gamepad in addition to this is far from efficient. Having to lay down a gamepad so I can chat would annoy me to no end.
Add to that that GW2 caters to FPS style movement and reaction of your toon, coupled with 10+ keybinds it just means that keyboard+mouse is the most efficient. But I don't see this as a requirement for enjoying the game though. Friends of mine are clickers, who use barely keybinds. Thanks to me they got a little used to wasd (so they at least can walk back without turning around lol), but I'm afraid that GW2 will present a tough challenge for them.
If you are really set on using a gamepad, use its macro's to map keybinds. Making the devs develop gamepad control is a waste of development time imo. Even if you use voicechat+gamepad, you won't be able to do without keyboard entirely.
Nostromo + Naga Hex = perfect combo
On the keyboard perhaps?
Anyway I do not know how GW2 plays but I was thinking the other day how mmorpgs could improve combat so I thought they could make it more like Devil may cry or fighting games like Soul Caliber. A controller would be much better for that.
After reading you have to jump, dodge, move in GW2, I really hope it plays like an action game. And not press 1, 3,4,2,1,3,6, etc.
I never said I was good. I don't think I'm perfect and know I make user error mistakes, but I know those failings are down to 'me' not the control scheme I'm using. Practice makes perfect with everything. Keyboard people need to realise that the only reason they think controllers are bad is because they can't use them themselves, but that doesn't mean that other people havn't found ways to or taken the time to master them.
You're assuming I'm something I'm not here. In fact, PvP isn't even my primary focus in mmos. I rarely even talk to people in PvP whether I'm winning or losing. I don't try to boast about winning or anything like that, I've only said it here because I know that it's proof controllers are viable.
I agree with what you are saying. Keyboard users have a bad attitude though, they say controllers are crap and useless and we can't do as good with them. Controller users don't say that though, we just say that it works exactly the same if you are good with controllers. Many keyboard users are pretty ignorant and a little childish to be honest concerning this.
EDIT: For the record, I also hate games that were designed and dumbed down with controllers in mind. Drag and drop UIs are are far better than ones like skyrims.
It won't work with a controler because you would have to wait for cooldowns. Therefore it can't be as fluent as a action game. DCU uses skillchains but they are repetitive ->boring. They would need one kind of abilities that loads up power and another kind that consums power. They need a new design but it's too late for that.
GW2 goes console for extra $$. Make yourself friend with the bastardization!
anyone interested in joining a guildwars 2 guild ?
I agree, support for controllers should be built into the game.
As it is I will try Pinnacle to configure my Xbox Controller for play with the game. It's a lot of fun playing with the controller in Champions Online. It's a shame that more PC Gamers haven't embraced the change in market and still deride PC controllers.
I do agree , though, that developers should present a user interface and mouse/keyboard control scheme specific to the PC environment when creating games for ,or porting games to ,the platform.
There is actually an undermount keyboard for xbox 360 controllers, it would blow minds if they could integrate that with the controller scheme for fast chatting rather than switching back to the keyboard. as well as voice chat.
Unless Console gamers are willing to buy a mouse and keyboard for their console to MMO one of two things must happen. Console gamers will lose more often as a keyboard and mouse give way more options and a smart gamer knows how to use that. Or they need to dumb down the interface to make a level playing field between the PC and console gamers and that just fails for the PC gamers as DCU proved. PC gamers like the options we have and dont like dumbed down UIs. It has never worked well and wont till developers find a new system that brings balance.
The accessibility of controllers doesn't make a game more or less RPG worthy. The gameworld, community, and immersion factor of the gameplay will do that for you.
FFXI is a stellar MMORPG and was designed primarily for controllers. No one can say that game isn't immersive. To the opposite, all of us have a list of MMOs designed for kb/m that aren't immersive at all.
But I do understand where I think you are going here... MMOs have shown a larger focus on fluff than substance in the last 5 years to expand to larger, less RPG based, audiences.
I lament that fact, but don't see it changing until people stop supporting bad games.
I think you missed his point. I agree with the OP because I have played games such as FFXI that offered the controller option. You can still use the keyboard if you like but that option was available to those who prefer a different play style. I personally liked the controler option but it really depends on the flow of the game and the rest of the UI for me. The only problem I see with the controller option is that it might force people into using "crutch" combinations simply out of laziness.
It was not until I started playing games like WoW that I actually started really using the keyboard and ever since that I can't stop.
I know you say you werent being rude but it's kind of harsh to say "people like you" that are ruining the game. Especially if the controller feature is an OPTION and not something people are forced to do. I personally like to be very active when playing mmorpgs, I love constant movement in pvp so I understand what he meant by "action games" when comparing with consol games. He was simply making a reference in which people would be able to better understand his perspective, if you disagree that's fine but bashing his opionon wasn't cool.
Nice post OP, I can't wait to see what's to come as well, and prepurchase is next week. /grin
Press keep getting invites to the betas, no wonder they would sell the beta access. I dont mean to be rude im glad you went in 2 times!! you must be very lucky *cough* part of the press, but yeah i guess a press person is better to inform others about the game and give it more hype?
Again im glad you went inside for the second time even if IS unfair, i guess why would they like to beta test with someone who didnt even play Guild Wars 1? is that how they think? thats how i think they are thinking i havent meet a single person, normal gamer that have been invited that is not friend of friend of someone who works for them or a press.
<a href="http://s526.photobucket.com/albums/cc344/zori4/Guild Wars 2 Beta/?action=view&current=zoyita.png" target="_blank"><img src="http://i526.photobucket.com/albums/cc344/zori4/Guild Wars 2 Beta/zoyita.png" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
It's funny, conpanies have been making gamepads for the PC for almost as long as there have been consoles.
I had a gamepad I used for PC gaming when the PS1 was king of console gaming.
Some of you people act like the gamepad is something that has never been done before.
Breaking news! Gamepads for the PC are possibly older then a lot of the people screaming, "Noez, keepz your CONSOLE CONTROLLER out of my mmoz!".
Hello, ingnorant, illinformed masses, the only "console controller" I own is the one that came in the box with my xbox and PS3 COMPUTER ENTERTAINMENT SYSTEMS! My other "controller" happens to plug into, and work with, my PC, 360, PS2 and PS3; it only requires 2 diffierent plug ins for it to work on all those systems because 3 out of 4 of those systems all use the exact same USB interface. Funny how that works.
It's strange, I stopped using the wod controller to describe any form of a controller the day I upgraded from an atari to an NES. It's always been a gamepad, whether I used that gamepad to play on the PC or anything since nintendo started exporting the Famicon to the US. Because, you know, my mouse is as much a controller as my gamepad is. My mouse just happens to be shapped differently, and require LESS skill to use.
PS, my gamepad moves at the same speed as my mouse; that would be 2000 dpi, and I don't play games at 2000 dpi because it's overkill. 1200-1600 dpi is suffiicient, and my gamepad can move at those speeds as well.
GW2 isn't an FPS, so the whole BS gamepad vs controller arguement is pointless, because you can't debate preference. You'll use what you ENJOY and what is COMFORTABLE for YOU. Lots of people that need to get over themselves and the whole lolconsolegamersruinpcgames attitude. It's childish and moronic. I play games on just about every system out, and none are superior. Because they're made to be played for entertainment, and that means FUN.
^^^ a bunch of words falling on deaf ears and blind eyes. ^^^
About the controls stop over reacting.....it is still an overated tab lock target game
If u want a TRUE action game like u said then TERA it is....
Better combat
better graphics
Better art design
and ofc better pvp...SKILLED pvp
The bad of tera
Voice acting and the qests type
Tera is by far a better mmo gw2 is way overhyped and the blind fangirls wont accept anything negative about the game they all think gw2 is the second coming of christ well i played it and i say it is not the case.
No raids,no role,no dungeon...might sound cool for the casuals but dont expect the hardcores or mmo vets to stick with gw2 more than 2 month or even buying it.
Overhyped game just like aion was bak then and swtor is now.
Tera wins nuff said
Liked the article David, and i agree almost 100% on everything you say. I also would like that the party/group window could remain as the original design of GW. Hope ANet can see it also l8r in eventual polish runs.
Just cant agree with you on the "pad" issue. Gamepads should not ever be given support for mmorpgs. Why? Well, for the same reason they dont sell keyboards to play BF3 on the consoles...its not natural
considering you are posting on a gw2 article you must be bored playing aion 1.5.
tera has better graphics, but it doesn't matter if the game world is bland and uninteresting. Same for the aion like art style.
tera combat sucks considering you can't cast while moving it roots just like aion.
the PvP is nothing more than button mashing and gear based combat.
I am sure your kill 25 rats or 3 BAM are much more interesting than gw2.
not everybody likes raids and randomly less than 10% of gamers are raiders.
Tera is an MMO that failed in its own home turf and in Japan and it will fail in the west.
btw I can see all of this because I played Tera for 1.5 month and I ended up having more fun in aion.
I'm really excited about the release of guild wars 2 but It's rather annoying how there is no controller support. Everyone is talking trash about controllers as opposed to keyboard, but for me personally controller support would be much appreciated since after breaking my wrist a year ago i get intense pain in my wrist after gaming for more than 30 minutes with a keyboard.
Also pre-order in Best Buy Canada would be nice, so i can actually order before all the beta's are over
-Also i played TERA and the combat is better in terms of skill but on an equal note the skills and quests of gw2 are more appealing. If only GW2 didn't have so much mouse selecting...