Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Fuzzy Avatars Solved! Please re-upload your avatar if it was fuzzy!

Why the sudden omission of Night/Day cycles and dynamic weather?

13

Comments

  • Grimrist000Grimrist000 Northridge, CAPosts: 82Member

    Originally posted by Loke666

    Originally posted by xr00t3dx

    Originally posted by Puremallace


    Originally posted by Boognishe

    GW2 has day/night cycles and weather.. Just sayin' ..

    Rift had it before GW2 :O

    And many before Rift, whats your point?

    I am pretty sure that was sarcasm...

    think xr00t3dx screwed up the quote.

    he was quoting Puremallace.

     

    OT: devs cutting costs, or being lazy. 

  • KertKert Hinton, ABPosts: 69Member

    Originally posted by brody71

    Originally posted by Asheram


    Originally posted by brody71


    Originally posted by Sharkypal


    Originally posted by atticusbc


    Originally posted by Boognishe

    GW2 has day/night cycles and weather.. Just sayin' ..

    wait it does? that... makes me so happy...

    From the videos I have seen, it certainly looks like it does which is good news :D

    it won't be anymore dynamic then the other games mentioned in this thread.  the day/night cycle is on a 4 hour loop. 

    Hmm, a 4 hour loop sounds alot more dynamic than a 0 hour loop to me.

    point being when things ae programmed to happen it's far from dynamic.  (talking weather, obviously day/night has a cycle)

    (night every 4 hours also seems like overkill to me,  shall see how it goes)

    Yeah... thats so lame a 4 hour loop. Imagine if the day night cycles fit into a 24 hour time period, with the sunrise, and sunset on a dynamic loop relating to the worlds distance from the sun, and orbit around that sun every 365 days.... That'd be so awesome....

     

    Fallen Earth

    Lord of the Rings Online

    Uncharted Waters Online

    Just to name a few, all have day/night and weather. Granted some are less dynamic than others.

    I loved the sandstorms on Tatooine in SWG. I really do think that some of these type of small features are the reason why a large number of newer games fail to immerse their subscribers/players. Everything feels stale and static. Even a day/night loop breaks up the monotony sometimes.

  • M1sf1tM1sf1t San Francisco, CAPosts: 1,583Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Loke666
    Agreed, I actually wish that the games went further instead and added seasons instead of taking stuff like this away.
    At least GW2 have it, I hope it will "inspire" other devs to add it to newer games.
    I would really love to see all seasons in a MMO, it is technically possible...

    Sage of Ryzom is the only game I know that has seasons on top of weather and day/night cycles. In fact its the only game that ties in the availability of certain harvested resources (which include migrating mobs) with the in game seasons.

    Games I've played/tried out:WAR, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, AoC, EQ1, EQ2, WoW, Vangaurd, FFXI, D&DO, Lineage 2, Saga Of Ryzom, EvE Online, DAoC, Guild Wars,Star Wars Galaxies, Hell Gate London, Auto Assault, Grando Espada ( AKA SoTNW ), Archlord, CoV/H, Star Trek Online, APB, Champions Online, FFXIV, Rift Online, GW2.

    Game(s) I Am Currently Playing:

    GW2 (+LoL and BF3)

  • RequiamerRequiamer ???Posts: 2,034Member

    From my experience mmo that don't have day/night cycle are more the exception that the rule. Weather in an other hand is not a very old feature, maybe from 2000 or around, and most mmo don't have it.

    But the problem with it is more like it lost its meaningless. In old rpg, darkness was really a threat, you needed to have torchlight in dungeons, and running around by night seriously reduce your vision (diablo is an example everyone know). But since pretty much every player would use some kind of cheat or raise their gamma level on screen, so dark night was scrapped entirely. To achieve that properly they would probably have to handle dark night on a texture level, i'm pretty damn sure it is possible to do, but its just not obvious to achieve, and well at this point i don't think any game company even want to make some non obvious work, they already have very hard time doing the obvious so.

    When it come to weather being a meaningful feature in a game, i think i know just a single one, very old 2d game where weather is actually full part of the game, and your character have to wear warmer or colder depending on the seasons and weather to survive, a single game over probably the thousands i played since i was born. Even pen&paper game couldn't handle that much details as weather, computer game could definitely have done it if there development went the Muds route of richness and boiling imagination, but well, monetary needs and shallow packaging being more important as it seam, you can be sure this kind of feature won't  come before few decades. You just have to wait for a genius to do it first so that everyone can copy/paste his work for pretty much zero investment, lol.

  • UsualSuspectUsualSuspect CardiffPosts: 1,243Member

    Originally posted by VirgoThree

    I'd have to imagine the main answer to this question would have to be art direction. In SWTOR all of the areas are precisely laid out in a certain composition and the lighting is no exception to this. The lights are static so that they can control exactly how the area will look on first arrival and it all flows together into the one artistic vision for that vista. 

    Dynamic lightning definitely throws a wrench into controlling the mood, composition, and overall feel of the scene. I do not really agree with making everything static, but it is not a game breaker for me.

    I really doubt it is a technical limitation, or project limitation in terms of cutting costs. It would just make most sense it was purely an artistic decision.

    Ah yes, Bioware and their 'Artistic Vision'. We all know how well that's working out for them - see ME3 ending controversy. The thing I find about TOR's 'scenes', as in the cut scenes when you're talking to someone, is that they all feel so dry and clinical. If that's the vision they had then great for them, but I think I'd much rather see a more dynamic world where the npc's might actually move when the rain starts. Hell, with TOR, just to see them move at all would be great, the image of the exterior of the Jedi Temple on Tython is still burned into my brain:

    Forward to 1:25. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3Rrk6lgi24

    That's one interesting artistic vision they have there.

     

  • KertKert Hinton, ABPosts: 69Member

    Originally posted by UsualSuspect

    Ah yes, Bioware and their 'Artistic Vision'. We all know how well that's working out for them - see ME3 ending controversy. The thing I find about TOR's 'scenes', as in the cut scenes when you're talking to someone, is that they all feel so dry and clinical. If that's the vision they had then great for them, but I think I'd much rather see a more dynamic world where the npc's might actually move when the rain starts. Hell, with TOR, just to see them move at all would be great, the image of the exterior of the Jedi Temple on Tython is still burned into my brain:

    Forward to 1:25. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3Rrk6lgi24

    That's one interesting artistic vision they have there.

     

    The complete lack of life in SW:TOR is one of the big reasons I left... of course there are 50 more, but the complate lack of immersion and believability of the environment is an issue that bugs me.

    I wanted to see the twin sunset on Tatooine, I wanted to experience the city lights of Coruscant at night (of course not being inside 'tunnels' would help that even more), seeing and expreiencing a snowstorm on Hoth would be impressive.

    But none of those things happen.

    As much as some of the design decisions and the direction of the game have turned me off, I will say this for LOTRO, the environment is gorgeous.

  • ComafComaf Chicago, ILPosts: 1,154Member Common

    The industry is steering away from depth, complexity, and anything else that might deter an overseas subscriber. 

     

    Even rain and weather shifts can be too dynamic and RP'ish for gamers.  Better to just focus on battlegrounds and a button on the screen that says "push here for pvp."

     

    Considering the mass market that is Korea and China, you might want to just start learning a new language if you plan to stay in the cash shop mmorpg genre.

    image
  • gaeanprayergaeanprayer Somewhere Out There, PAPosts: 2,320Member Uncommon

    I may have a bit of a bias here, as I'm colorblind and have trouble seeing when games go overboard with the evening look, but I never thought day/night cycles were immersion-breaking or even mattered much? There are a few games where specific things happen or specific monsters activate with the change in cycle, that's a little different. But for the most part, does it really matter whether you're killing under the sun or under the moon?

     

    Unless I'm suddenly unable to play adequately because it's too dark, I don't think I've ever even noticed the change in time/weather in games that have the feature.

    "Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."

  • MelisandreMelisandre Roseville, CAPosts: 2Member

    Most MMOs I've played have had a day/night cycle and a few of them had a noticeable weather system. Even WoW had some of the craziest rain storms I've seen in a game. The nights in most MMOs haven't been that impressive because it never really feels like its DARK enough. SWG had one of the darkest nights I can remember.

  • just1opinionjust1opinion Kansas City, MOPosts: 4,844Member

    Originally posted by chibineko89

    Originally posted by xr00t3dx

    Originally posted by Puremallace


    Originally posted by Boognishe

    GW2 has day/night cycles and weather.. Just sayin' ..

    Rift had it before GW2 :O

     

    And many before Rift, whats your point?

    rift also had DEs 1st but gw2 will have what seems to b much better ones

    probably the same with the day/night cycle

    granted rift is over a year old now so gw2 has an advantage there

     

    Warhammer had DEs (PQs) before Rift....again....what's the point?  If you're trying to claim Rift as being the first to do anything....good luck on that.

    President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club

  • AldersAlders Jack Burton'sPosts: 1,857Member Uncommon

    I remember undead would come out at night in FFXI and would wipe out your entire party if you were not careful.  Also certain world spawns would only appear at night as well.  I really miss stuff like that.

  • austriacusaustriacus limaPosts: 611Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Kert

    Originally posted by brody71


    Originally posted by Asheram


    Originally posted by brody71


    Originally posted by Sharkypal


    Originally posted by atticusbc


    Originally posted by Boognishe

    GW2 has day/night cycles and weather.. Just sayin' ..

    wait it does? that... makes me so happy...

    From the videos I have seen, it certainly looks like it does which is good news :D

    it won't be anymore dynamic then the other games mentioned in this thread.  the day/night cycle is on a 4 hour loop. 

    Hmm, a 4 hour loop sounds alot more dynamic than a 0 hour loop to me.

    point being when things ae programmed to happen it's far from dynamic.  (talking weather, obviously day/night has a cycle)

    (night every 4 hours also seems like overkill to me,  shall see how it goes)

    Yeah... thats so lame a 4 hour loop. Imagine if the day night cycles fit into a 24 hour time period, with the sunrise, and sunset on a dynamic loop relating to the worlds distance from the sun, and orbit around that sun every 365 days.... That'd be so awesome....

     

    Fallen Earth

    Lord of the Rings Online

    Uncharted Waters Online

    Just to name a few, all have day/night and weather. Granted some are less dynamic than others.

    I loved the sandstorms on Tatooine in SWG. I really do think that some of these type of small features are the reason why a large number of newer games fail to immerse their subscribers/players. Everything feels stale and static. Even a day/night loop breaks up the monotony sometimes.

    That would work in a world with only 1 timezone. The reality is that MMOs are played by people all over the world and sometimes theres no publisher in your area so by doing what you propose, some people might never see the daytime in the game since they have no choice but to play in an european or US server.

     

  • MelisandreMelisandre Roseville, CAPosts: 2Member

    There have been plenty of MMOs with day/night cycles and weather but what I really like about GW2 is that the day/night and weather will have an impact on the world as affecting abilities, events.

  • KalferKalfer HappylandPosts: 779Member

    As graphics get better and game systems become more complicated, things go out the window. Ask yourself why an old game like UO that was released in 1997, had so many features that most MMOs wouldn't dream off today!? It's because sometimes complex technologies can make things worst.

     

    +1 for Skynet. 

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Posts: 14,784Member Uncommon

    If you're going to have day/night cycles, don't synchronize them with Earth's day/night cycles or else some people only ever get to see one or the other.

    A Tale in the Desert has roughly 9 hour days, and some spawns dependent on (in-game) time of day.  Some plant growth locations change with the game's seasons, too.

    Uncharted Waters Online has day/night cycles, sunshine, clouds, rain, snow, thunderstorms, blizzards (rare), and a sun and moon visibly going overhead.  And the moon even goes through phases as days pass.

  • KalferKalfer HappylandPosts: 779Member

    Best realized virtual world, on this subject; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHBfTdvrjrs&feature=channel&list=UL

     

     

     

     

    edit:

     

    and why they need to make a new vice city: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cje7fcdsJmc < even with the crude ps2 2002 graphics, look how effective it still is in terms of change. VC is amazing.

  • nyxxisnyxxis Independence, MOPosts: 62Member

    I loved UO at night. Everyone breaking out lanterns, or lamps or candles on the steps of homes that people wanted to be noticed. It is even lost in lotro, the moria ram with a hanging lantern attached but it serves no real purpose. How about building your sheild skill in a dungeon in UO cause you have to carry a lantern because you cant afford nightsight pots or cant spell cast.

    If I see a candle in a building, that implys it gets dark so it better light up.

     

    image

    All Murlocs must die horrible, painful, bloody deaths!

  • chibineko89chibineko89 seneca falls, NYPosts: 107Member

    Originally posted by just1opinion

    Originally posted by chibineko89


    Originally posted by xr00t3dx

    Originally posted by Puremallace


    Originally posted by Boognishe

    GW2 has day/night cycles and weather.. Just sayin' ..

    Rift had it before GW2 :O

     

    And many before Rift, whats your point?

    rift also had DEs 1st but gw2 will have what seems to b much better ones

    probably the same with the day/night cycle

    granted rift is over a year old now so gw2 has an advantage there

     

    Warhammer had DEs (PQs) before Rift....again....what's the point?  If you're trying to claim Rift as being the first to do anything....good luck on that.

    the point was it doesnt matter who had it 1st what matters is who implements it better

  • KonfessKonfess Dallas, TXPosts: 956Member Uncommon

    Modern particle effects are taxing on a rendering system.  I don't have the data, but I feel confident that the number of systems that can truly handle Weather and Day/Night are in less than 10% of the player base.  The percentage may be as high as 30%, but even that feels like we are pushing it.

    What do devs know from data collection of graphics settings?  More players turn off or counter these effects.  So time and effort spent developing them, are seen as a waste of money, 'why don’t they—‘.

    How long does night las in an MMO?  Two hours seems just right, four hours seems like an eternity.  Some people only have two hours at a time to play.  If that window only has 15 minutes of night or day what do they do if the cycle controls NPCs or Mobs?  Devs make their games so whatever window you have to play, you can play and do what ever it is you need or want to do.

    If a Dev makes a Horror game that takes place in darkness, then the player will turn up the brightness in the graphics settings!  Come ON!

    Pardon any spelling errors
    Konfess your cyns and some maybe forgiven
    Boy: Why can't I talk to Him?
    Mom: We don't talk to Priests.
    As if it could exist, without being payed for.
    F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing.

  • KertKert Hinton, ABPosts: 69Member

    Originally posted by austriacus

    That would work in a world with only 1 timezone. The reality is that MMOs are played by people all over the world and sometimes theres no publisher in your area so by doing what you propose, some people might never see the daytime in the game since they have no choice but to play in an european or US server.

     

    Axtually my post was sarcasm related to the criticism of the 4 hour loop. Mostly was pointing out that it's not like our own cycle here on Earth isn't "programmed" aside from slight variations due to season, the sun rises and sets in a predictable pattern.

    A game may shorten it, but really you're only talking about scale. As for time zones... the game itself could be it own "virtual world" with different timezones based on where you are on the "virtual world" and as you travel across the world the time zones change, days get longer/shorter depending on the location and hemisphere....

    *sigh* Nevermind, I just don't have the gumption to bother writing this all out.

  • UsualSuspectUsualSuspect CardiffPosts: 1,243Member

    Originally posted by Konfess

    Modern particle effects are taxing on a rendering system.  I don't have the data, but I feel confident that the number of systems that can truly handle Weather and Day/Night are in less than 10% of the player base.  The percentage may be as high as 30%, but even that feels like we are pushing it.

    We had day/night cycles and weather patterns back in 1999 with EQ1, systems have come a pretty long way since then. It's as taxing as the programmers want to make it. Having a single light source (the sun) move across a landscape is the most basic of lighting tricks, most games have multiple light sources from various angles. Weather is the more difficult to do, but even then, it doesn't have to render every raindrop or water puddle, it entirely depends on the engine being used and the complexity that the programmers want to put into the little details.

  • AsheramAsheram Posts: 1,971Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Alders

    I remember undead would come out at night in FFXI and would wipe out your entire party if you were not careful.  Also certain world spawns would only appear at night as well.  I really miss stuff like that.

    I just watched a gameplay video for Dragon's Dogma Gameplay Preview and made me think of this thread.

    If this can be done in a single player offline game it would seem like it should be easier to do in a online game that is always plugged in and having a crew creating stuff to happen at random in different areas.

    Kind of like how the crews did in a couple of movies i just watched recently-The Hunger Games and The Cabin in the Woods.

    Thats the whole benefit of being online besides being able to play with other people is it not? 

    image
  • SharkypalSharkypal SomewherePosts: 1,137Member

    Originally posted by Asheram

    Originally posted by Alders

    I remember undead would come out at night in FFXI and would wipe out your entire party if you were not careful.  Also certain world spawns would only appear at night as well.  I really miss stuff like that.

    I just watched a gameplay video for Dragon's Dogma Gameplay Preview and made me think of this thread.

    If this can be done in a single player offline game it would seem like it should be easier to do in a online game that is always plugged in and having a crew creating stuff to happen at random in different areas.

    Kind of like how the crews did in a couple of movies i just watched recently-The Hunger Games and The Cabin in the Woods.

    Thats the whole benefit of being online besides being able to play with other people is it not? 

    Wow, that Dragon's Dogma game looks pretty damn good. Absolutely brilliant use of Night to create atmosphere and a real sense of danger and confusion.

  • RefMinorRefMinor MyTownPosts: 3,452Member
    Originally posted by VirgoThree

    I'd have to imagine the main answer to this question would have to be art direction. In SWTOR all of the areas are precisely laid out in a certain composition and the lighting is no exception to this. The lights are static so that they can control exactly how the area will look on first arrival and it all flows together into the one artistic vision for that vista. 
    Dynamic lightning definitely throws a wrench into controlling the mood, composition, and overall feel of the scene. I do not really agree with making everything static, but it is not a game breaker for me.
    I really doubt it is a technical limitation, or project limitation in terms of cutting costs. It would just make most sense it was purely an artistic decision.

     

    It is technically difficult to make such a dead sterile world, it takes skill in the art direction to bleach all life out.
Sign In or Register to comment.