I am writing lore in excerpt form that is compose in a timeline. That's the only way I know how to do it. What I've seen in the thread from some of the links is that lore is actually written in short story form. Which is interesting.
Do you care about lore of the world outside of the main plot that progresses the story? Do you actually read the lore or do you even care?
Does anyone actually read lore? What would make lore more intriguing for those who don't read it?
Nope, I don't give a rat's ass about game lore. I've read so many fantasy novels and played so many fantasy games over the decades (tabletop as well as computer) that I no longer care. It's just generic "yadda yadda" now.
As for the second question, trust me, NOTHING would make me take an interest in game lore, though I admit I would be your worst-case scenario as a player. Good luck with it though and enjoy yourself writing it up - doubtless many other people would take the time to enjoy it!
A good way to make people interested in lore is to place related things all over the map, not only in the quests becasue only 1% of players read the quest logs. I mean for example if you place a giant smoking hole in the grounds people would start to wonder WTF is that and what happened there, also lore books (like D3 books or KoA stones) can be a good way to tell the lore, as long as they are short, if they are too long they can get boring and lose all interest.
I am writing lore in excerpt form that is compose in a timeline. That's the only way I know how to do it. What I've seen in the thread from some of the links is that lore is actually written in short story form. Which is interesting.
If you will take an advise: timelines are fine, but timelines are only a part of real lore, in many ways like we see history. This and that happened and something different after that. That's very important and fine and good - but lore is more than what exists in history books.
A good example would be like in the Lord of the Rings (the books) where lore is also common things, like, for example that hobbits don't get gifts on their birthday but instead give gifts to visitors. Or that the hobbits to the east of the Brandywine are looked upon as weird by the hobbits of the Shire. No history book would mention these seemingly unimportant things but for a good RP-experience these litte quirks are almost more important than everything what we would call history.
In a good RP-environment there must be a place for a common peasant, a man that hasn't seen a history book in his entire lifetime, but the thing about people being weird or giving gifts on his birthday, that the peasant would know.
I maintain this List of Sandbox MMORPGs. Please post or send PM for corrections and suggestions.
Do you care about lore of the world outside of the main plot that progresses the story? Do you actually read the lore or do you even care? I am actually starting to write lore for that map I posted two threads ago. I will say that I find it tedious sometimes when I write lore. I want lore to be exciting and to feel like the world had some substance to it.
Does anyone actually read lore? What would make lore more intriguing for those who don't read it?
The best outlet for players to get lore is through quests. Are there any other avenues in which a player can recieve lore?
I do unlike many on this site I still play most games especially an rpg based game with the idea that my character is living in this world and moved by the conditions events etc. that happen in that world.
regardless of how others feel I enjoyed the lore of WOW for the two or so years I played it and lore was what made LOTRO my prefered mmo after playing WOW.
I do like to point out though I get a bit peeved by the idea that developers need to conform the lore to fit a certain players perceptions which tends to be the bane of most lore in mmorpg's, people just can;'t get over certain things changed real or percieved and it tends to bog down the experience.
I'd like to see lore used more directly in game play. This is more for a Sandbox World game, since Themeparks pretty much guide the players through it without much mystery, although that probably doesn't have to be that way.
But imagine if a game has a huge world, with a very deep lore and history that's revealed in the game.
Through:
Books and scrolls in great libraries and found in the world
NPC wise men that tell stories when prompted
Scripts written on walls, statues, floors, etc., in dungeons and ruins
Magical crystal balls that speak
Speaking statues
Stories told by "Gypsies"
Inscriptions on items (weapons, rings, etc.)
Old wive's tales
Maps on floors/walls
etc., imagination's the limit.
And imagine that clues; lost names, descriptions, insignias of ancient people and cults, locations, etc.; are noted in all of that. This could be used so that players can solve things about events in game. New events can be made using these as clues.
They aren't specific to a quest or plot, they are about the past in that world. So players can discover that a current event involves a long lost Assassin's cult, or that the attacking hoards or Orcs are associated somehow with an old ruins, and things like that. Instead of being told where to go, who's behind something, etc., players can discover this through game play.
For games that I subscribe to for over a few months I must care deeply about something in the game. It could be the gameplay, it could be the lore, it could be the people I play it with. WoW had some great storyline arcs carried over from warcraft 2 and 3 and as such I enjoyed the lore. I loved learning all the things about Dereth and Asheron and the sword of lost light etc etc. I liked having GMs play as characters from the matrix at in game events. All of these things heightened my experience and made me play these games longer then I would of otherwise.
I do not have many recent games to quote because the games lore has been dulled down or I have not played enough to care about it yet.
I also agree that lore through quest text as the majority of the more is a lame way to do it and needs to be a mix.
Lore does not bring me to a game but it sure does keep me there.
I see lore more as an optional thing which can only add to a game. It's great when it's there, particularly when it permeates the world and isn't "Here, read this text." It's not necessarily bad when it's not there.
The only time it's detrimental is if lore is both poorly done and in your face constantly.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Lore is a very important factor for me when choosing an MMO, its the main reason I played WoW for some long, say what ya want about WoW, it have very rich and detailed Lore.
If a game doesnt have a good background of lore I dont play it much, which is why I dont play most of the F2P asian style MMO's, they dont have much lore outside a few paragraphs of opening story.
It's good to see a decent amount of people that enjoy lore. I find it very interesting that lore can make or break if someone plays a game or not. What I also find interesting is that a good world map with good lore goes a long way.
Would anyone be sincerely interested if I posted some excerpts from my mmo lore? Would anyone actually read it? I'd really like some feedback. If so should I go ahead and post it in this thread or make a new one?
It's good to see a decent amount of people that enjoy lore. I find it very interesting that lore can make or break if someone plays a game or not. What I also find interesting is that a good world map with good lore goes a long way.
Would anyone be sincerely interested if I posted some excerpts from my mmo lore? Would anyone actually read it? I'd really like some feedback. If so should I go ahead and post it in this thread or make a new one?
Post it here, let's see what you've got.
I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil
Nope. I don't care about the lore or read quest text or any stories. I'm here to play a game.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own. -- Herman Melville
After reading most of this thread, a question came up: many folks distinguish between lore and story. What are the distinguishing factors? What integrates lore and story? What separates them?
For me, lore and story are integrated and therefore important regarding immersion. A basic story or bit of lore might be enough to get me started in a game, but if you want my time and money, it's the lore/story that will keep me immersed for years.
An example would be LOTRO, where the game lore follows the books very closely. Yet in order to build a game around it, you have to create storylines that intersect where the player meets heroic opportunities, then flesh out those bones.
I'd be willing to read and critique some of the OP's story. Please post a link.
After reading most of this thread, a question came up: many folks distinguish between lore and story. What are the distinguishing factors? What integrates lore and story? What separates them?
For me, lore and story are integrated and therefore important regarding immersion. An example would be LOTRO, where the game lore follows the books very closely. Yet in order to build a game around it, you have to create storylines that intersect where the player meets heroic opportunities, then flesh out those bones.
I'd be willing to read and critique some of the OP's story. Please post a link.
For me, Lore is the backstory, the setting, everything about the world. Story is what is happeing right now.
I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil
Having well written lore is good and all, but whats more important is presentation of said lore.
I couldn't stand WoW or Rift in this regard as they spoon-fed me every little bit of lore and more. There was no mystery, there was no adventure or exploration. There was only tourism.
It's good to see a decent amount of people that enjoy lore. I find it very interesting that lore can make or break if someone plays a game or not. What I also find interesting is that a good world map with good lore goes a long way.
Would anyone be sincerely interested if I posted some excerpts from my mmo lore? Would anyone actually read it? I'd really like some feedback. If so should I go ahead and post it in this thread or make a new one?
I'm glad this thread has fleshed out so much, and that so many people have given you mostly-sound feedback.
I'd like to read some of the lore, for sure!
I have a sizable collection of books based on game lore, and for the most part, it's been enjoyable.
There was a lore bit in vanilla WoW that was very immersive - the Onyxia chain.
Whenever a member of our guild was at that point in the chain and headed to Stormwind to confront her, we all gathered as a silent honor guard on that walk. And when it came time for me to make that walk, I actually cried. It was probably the only time in WoW that I felt like a real hero.
Two years and two expansions later, after the quest chain had been removed from the game and we were all in Northrend gathering to fight the Lich King, I stood aside for the parade as Bolvar walked past, stopped and then whispered, "I'll never forget what you did that day in Stormwind."
Only characters who completed the original chain got that whisper. I think I played WoW for another two years just because of how that was presented. /salute to the devs for that one.
Add me to the "gameplay is more important than anything else" list.....Most of the games that have good lore (LoTRO, WoW, SWTOR, etc) seem to get boring fast....It may simply be because they all tend to be quest heavy......I like lore when it establishes which factions don't like each other and plays in well with the game, but otherwise I could care less.
I care more about theme. I care just enough to want things to make enough sense that I don't notice inconsistencies.
“It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money - that's all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot - it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better.”
Comments
I am writing lore in excerpt form that is compose in a timeline. That's the only way I know how to do it. What I've seen in the thread from some of the links is that lore is actually written in short story form. Which is interesting.
Nope, I don't give a rat's ass about game lore. I've read so many fantasy novels and played so many fantasy games over the decades (tabletop as well as computer) that I no longer care. It's just generic "yadda yadda" now.
As for the second question, trust me, NOTHING would make me take an interest in game lore, though I admit I would be your worst-case scenario as a player. Good luck with it though and enjoy yourself writing it up - doubtless many other people would take the time to enjoy it!
A good way to make people interested in lore is to place related things all over the map, not only in the quests becasue only 1% of players read the quest logs. I mean for example if you place a giant smoking hole in the grounds people would start to wonder WTF is that and what happened there, also lore books (like D3 books or KoA stones) can be a good way to tell the lore, as long as they are short, if they are too long they can get boring and lose all interest.
No, read about it in a book. The gameplay is all that matters
Yes I like Lore insofar as the Setting of the World my character exists in is concerned. And I think it is important for a game to have it.
Order of the Silver Star, OSS
ESKA, Playing MMORPG's since Ultima Online 1997 - Order of the Silver Serpent, Atlantic Shard
If you will take an advise: timelines are fine, but timelines are only a part of real lore, in many ways like we see history. This and that happened and something different after that. That's very important and fine and good - but lore is more than what exists in history books.
A good example would be like in the Lord of the Rings (the books) where lore is also common things, like, for example that hobbits don't get gifts on their birthday but instead give gifts to visitors. Or that the hobbits to the east of the Brandywine are looked upon as weird by the hobbits of the Shire. No history book would mention these seemingly unimportant things but for a good RP-experience these litte quirks are almost more important than everything what we would call history.
In a good RP-environment there must be a place for a common peasant, a man that hasn't seen a history book in his entire lifetime, but the thing about people being weird or giving gifts on his birthday, that the peasant would know.
I maintain this List of Sandbox MMORPGs. Please post or send PM for corrections and suggestions.
I do unlike many on this site I still play most games especially an rpg based game with the idea that my character is living in this world and moved by the conditions events etc. that happen in that world.
regardless of how others feel I enjoyed the lore of WOW for the two or so years I played it and lore was what made LOTRO my prefered mmo after playing WOW.
I do like to point out though I get a bit peeved by the idea that developers need to conform the lore to fit a certain players perceptions which tends to be the bane of most lore in mmorpg's, people just can;'t get over certain things changed real or percieved and it tends to bog down the experience.
I'd like to see lore used more directly in game play. This is more for a Sandbox World game, since Themeparks pretty much guide the players through it without much mystery, although that probably doesn't have to be that way.
But imagine if a game has a huge world, with a very deep lore and history that's revealed in the game.
Through:
Books and scrolls in great libraries and found in the world
NPC wise men that tell stories when prompted
Scripts written on walls, statues, floors, etc., in dungeons and ruins
Magical crystal balls that speak
Speaking statues
Stories told by "Gypsies"
Inscriptions on items (weapons, rings, etc.)
Old wive's tales
Maps on floors/walls
etc., imagination's the limit.
And imagine that clues; lost names, descriptions, insignias of ancient people and cults, locations, etc.; are noted in all of that. This could be used so that players can solve things about events in game. New events can be made using these as clues.
They aren't specific to a quest or plot, they are about the past in that world. So players can discover that a current event involves a long lost Assassin's cult, or that the attacking hoards or Orcs are associated somehow with an old ruins, and things like that. Instead of being told where to go, who's behind something, etc., players can discover this through game play.
Once upon a time....
In single player games yes, not so much in MMO's though.
For games that I subscribe to for over a few months I must care deeply about something in the game. It could be the gameplay, it could be the lore, it could be the people I play it with. WoW had some great storyline arcs carried over from warcraft 2 and 3 and as such I enjoyed the lore. I loved learning all the things about Dereth and Asheron and the sword of lost light etc etc. I liked having GMs play as characters from the matrix at in game events. All of these things heightened my experience and made me play these games longer then I would of otherwise.
I do not have many recent games to quote because the games lore has been dulled down or I have not played enough to care about it yet.
I also agree that lore through quest text as the majority of the more is a lame way to do it and needs to be a mix.
Lore does not bring me to a game but it sure does keep me there.
I see lore more as an optional thing which can only add to a game. It's great when it's there, particularly when it permeates the world and isn't "Here, read this text." It's not necessarily bad when it's not there.
The only time it's detrimental is if lore is both poorly done and in your face constantly.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
I enjoy well written lore. I tend to prefer single player games lore, like the Mass Effect games, Dragon Age, The Witcher, than I do for mmos.
Lore is a very important factor for me when choosing an MMO, its the main reason I played WoW for some long, say what ya want about WoW, it have very rich and detailed Lore.
If a game doesnt have a good background of lore I dont play it much, which is why I dont play most of the F2P asian style MMO's, they dont have much lore outside a few paragraphs of opening story.
GW2 has a rich lore background so I cant wait
It's good to see a decent amount of people that enjoy lore. I find it very interesting that lore can make or break if someone plays a game or not. What I also find interesting is that a good world map with good lore goes a long way.
Would anyone be sincerely interested if I posted some excerpts from my mmo lore? Would anyone actually read it? I'd really like some feedback. If so should I go ahead and post it in this thread or make a new one?
Post it here, let's see what you've got.
I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil
Nope. I don't care about the lore or read quest text or any stories. I'm here to play a game.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.
-- Herman Melville
After reading most of this thread, a question came up: many folks distinguish between lore and story. What are the distinguishing factors? What integrates lore and story? What separates them?
For me, lore and story are integrated and therefore important regarding immersion. A basic story or bit of lore might be enough to get me started in a game, but if you want my time and money, it's the lore/story that will keep me immersed for years.
An example would be LOTRO, where the game lore follows the books very closely. Yet in order to build a game around it, you have to create storylines that intersect where the player meets heroic opportunities, then flesh out those bones.
I'd be willing to read and critique some of the OP's story. Please post a link.
For me, Lore is the backstory, the setting, everything about the world. Story is what is happeing right now.
I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil
Having well written lore is good and all, but whats more important is presentation of said lore.
I couldn't stand WoW or Rift in this regard as they spoon-fed me every little bit of lore and more. There was no mystery, there was no adventure or exploration. There was only tourism.
I'm glad this thread has fleshed out so much, and that so many people have given you mostly-sound feedback.
I'd like to read some of the lore, for sure!
I have a sizable collection of books based on game lore, and for the most part, it's been enjoyable.
I'll only care about lore if there are hooks that can reel me in.
Gameplay > All
Just how I feel. I have nothing against lore, but gameplay makes up the majority of my decision-making process to buy or subscribe to a game.
Enter a whole new realm of challenge and adventure.
There was a lore bit in vanilla WoW that was very immersive - the Onyxia chain.
Whenever a member of our guild was at that point in the chain and headed to Stormwind to confront her, we all gathered as a silent honor guard on that walk. And when it came time for me to make that walk, I actually cried. It was probably the only time in WoW that I felt like a real hero.
Two years and two expansions later, after the quest chain had been removed from the game and we were all in Northrend gathering to fight the Lich King, I stood aside for the parade as Bolvar walked past, stopped and then whispered, "I'll never forget what you did that day in Stormwind."
Only characters who completed the original chain got that whisper. I think I played WoW for another two years just because of how that was presented. /salute to the devs for that one.
Add me to the "gameplay is more important than anything else" list.....Most of the games that have good lore (LoTRO, WoW, SWTOR, etc) seem to get boring fast....It may simply be because they all tend to be quest heavy......I like lore when it establishes which factions don't like each other and plays in well with the game, but otherwise I could care less.
I care more about theme. I care just enough to want things to make enough sense that I don't notice inconsistencies.
--John Ruskin