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Open Beta(trial)? Blizzard was honest with Diablo 3, how about Arenanet???

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  • CelciusCelcius Posts: 1,001Member Uncommon

    Considering GW2 is an MMORPG and Diablo 3 is not, I do not feel like that is a fair measurement of the "honesty" of the companies. Diablo 3 is coming out in a few weeks and GW 2 is still months away probably. They are offering hundreds of thousands of people beta access this weekend without an NDA (this far out from the release date,i might add) Not to mention all the information coming out of the recent press betas.....they have always been transparent when it comes to what the game they are making has in it. You don't have to pay for it to try it if you don't want to (get access from a friend), but people will still be there so you can get an idea of what your friends think of the game. 

  • LooneyLadLooneyLad KavadarciPosts: 13Member

    You cant compare a 2 hours long demo run of D3 to what GW2 can offer. It still amazes me that people continue to put these 2 together. While D3 is a dungeon crawler with the online part glued onto because of the real money shop and nothing else (the game can be a single player or at most a Co-Op experience soooooooo easy), GW2 is a fully fledged MMORPG game that is 99% different from D3...you dont even control you char. in the same way.

  • joocheesejoocheese San Antonio, TXPosts: 845Member

    Only time, sales and subs (active player base for GW2) will decide whether GW2 was a success; comparatively speaking to WOW, SWTOR and Rift (only true games of consequence).

    As for open betas... Diablo 3 is 24 days from being released, its about time they had an open beta!

  • UnlightUnlight Ottawa, ONPosts: 2,540Member

    Originally posted by Meleagar

    Originally posted by joocheese


    Originally posted by Meleagar

    If ANET was honest, they'd GIVE everyone the game and then just ask for donations for however much the individual thought it was worth. And then they'd refuse the donation and double our donation back to us. I mean, you know, if they were really serious about being honest. Then they'd put us all on the payroll and pay us to play.

    wow...

    All I've got to say (can say really) is Meleagar = Troll

    No sense, no reason, no purpose, just pure, simple, unadulterated trolling

    That was sarcasm, in case you didn't get it. It wasn't supposed to be taken seriously. Remember humor?

    I spotted it, but remember that part of the troll initiative is to put people on edge so they attack each other.  That way they can crow about the "awful" GW2 community.  It's actually one of their more effective attack strategies.

  • HurvartHurvart ystadPosts: 565Member

    Originally posted by GenreNinja

    Originally posted by catplay

    I will not gonna spend my money with out trying that game.

    I've seen so many fanboys/haters comments, i really don't fallow any of them until i don't "feel" the game myself.

    So will be there an open beta/trial or Arenanet want to hide something from potential players just to get their money like they did with pre-purchasing the game with out playing?

    Blizzard was honest, they did open beta, they never had NDA for Diablo3, basically, they said "thats the game, play it, you like it, buy it".

    Is wicked how not even GW1 didnt received any kind of trial/beta .. just because they spent money on all GW1 expansions or something.

    This is where I judge much people for being an ill-informed and selfish consumers.

    Beta is not a trial. Period. End of story.  The MMORPG market has blurred the definition of beta, and it deserve this "you owe me a beta to try the game" attitude so much of the audience has adopted.

    Tons, hell the majority, of games have been released and almost all of them offered the game for pre-order without any public beta, much less an open beta. It's not a new concept, it's not wicked, it's not evil, it's not corrup. They don't owe you a trial.

    When you pre-purchase the game, you do exactly that: pre-purchase the game. And one of the perks, is access to the beta, not a trial, but the beta. Not a preview. But the beta. They need people in game, to test the limits of the game. Millions of people want in, and chances are, they aren't ready for millions of people to be in yet. So, to reward those people who are dedicated to the brand, and pre-purchase the game, they get beta access as a perk of buying the game as opposed to selecting random people who may not even be interested in getting the game. It's actually a sound decision on there part and I commend them for sticking to their guns. The only people who will be there, are people who truely want to be there, not people "on the fence" and still convinced they deserve a trial before spending their money on an unreleased game. But people who know they want to play the game, and want it to be a great game. The people who are unsure if they want to play it, they can wait for the game to be finished, so when they do judge the game, they judge it's finished product, not it's work in progress.

     

     



    I think that depends on the companies. Most s c betas are more like demos or trials. And not really intended to be serious beta testing intended to help and support the developers efforts. Only people that they really trust and know are experienced are allowed to participate in that kind of beta. Of course anyone can help stress test. But if we are talking about feed back and suggestions that devs really are interested in. Beta weekends are not intended for that.

    Sometimes there are beta weekends, closed beta and internal beta(or they could perhaps call it VIP beta). 

     

  • joocheesejoocheese San Antonio, TXPosts: 845Member

    Originally posted by Unlight

    Originally posted by Meleagar


    Originally posted by joocheese


    Originally posted by Meleagar

    If ANET was honest, they'd GIVE everyone the game and then just ask for donations for however much the individual thought it was worth. And then they'd refuse the donation and double our donation back to us. I mean, you know, if they were really serious about being honest. Then they'd put us all on the payroll and pay us to play.

    wow...

    All I've got to say (can say really) is Meleagar = Troll

    No sense, no reason, no purpose, just pure, simple, unadulterated trolling

    That was sarcasm, in case you didn't get it. It wasn't supposed to be taken seriously. Remember humor?

    I spotted it, but remember that part of the troll initiative is to put people on edge so they attack each other.  That way they can crow about the "awful" GW2 community.  It's actually one of their more effective attack strategies.



    I'm sorry, completely missed the humor haha

  • ExilorExilor Las Palmas de Gran CanariaPosts: 391Member

    Originally posted by Unlight

    Originally posted by Meleagar


    Originally posted by joocheese


    Originally posted by Meleagar

    If ANET was honest, they'd GIVE everyone the game and then just ask for donations for however much the individual thought it was worth. And then they'd refuse the donation and double our donation back to us. I mean, you know, if they were really serious about being honest. Then they'd put us all on the payroll and pay us to play.

    wow...

    All I've got to say (can say really) is Meleagar = Troll

    No sense, no reason, no purpose, just pure, simple, unadulterated trolling

    That was sarcasm, in case you didn't get it. It wasn't supposed to be taken seriously. Remember humor?

    I spotted it, but remember that part of the troll initiative is to put people on edge so they attack each other.  That way they can crow about the "awful" GW2 community.  It's actually one of their more effective attack strategies.

    ^This exactly.

    It's the Wounded Gazelle Gambit.

    And it's cowardly and despicable :)

  • deathangelldeathangell oviedo, FLPosts: 85Member

    90% of mmo's that come out have a open beta but just liek diablo and many others did the open beta is not until very close to the release date. They reward there pre-purchase with close beta weekends and if the gw 1 fanboys are so loyal like ur self, then u wouldnt have a issue cause you would also pre-purchase. The facts are there is no release date on thsi game so its safe to say the game is not coming out soon which is why u put a NDA on it.

     

    Also as much as we want to say d3 is a mmo its more of a dungeon crawler at this point with friends considering the new system d2 was closer to the mmo state of mind of  making public friends etc of course things could change.

  • LordRelicLordRelic clearfield, UTPosts: 281Member

    Originally posted by Unlight

    Originally posted by monarc333

    Can't the OP prepurchase the game, try the beta, and if he doesnt like the game, cancel his purchase? After all the game is not coming out for a couple months.

    No.  Pre-purchase means the game is bought and the retailer will treat it as such, meaning no returns on open games, only exchanges for same.  Pre-orders can be cancelled at any time because you don't get any tangible benefits from it up front, such as using the pre-purchase code to gain beta access.  Remember, once a code is used, it's gone.  It gets tied to an account and only that account can ever use it.  The retailer can never sell that package to someone else once they've sent you the code.

    Umm i have done it in the past with other games.. I have yet to preorder GW2 but i dont want to burn out on it before its even released so im not worried.  but as for preorders 5 dollars down from gamestop gets it preordered witch will work for the beta weekeds.. ( just like it always has)

  • UngoHumungoUngoHumungo Middletown, OHPosts: 518Member

    Originally posted by catplay

    I will not gonna spend my money with out trying that game.

    I've seen so many fanboys/haters comments, i really don't fallow any of them until i don't "feel" the game myself.

    So will be there an open beta/trial or Arenanet want to hide something from potential players just to get their money like they did with pre-purchasing the game with out playing?

    Blizzard was honest, they did open beta, they never had NDA for Diablo3, basically, they said "thats the game, play it, you like it, buy it".

    Is wicked how not even GW1 didnt received any kind of trial/beta .. just because they spent money on all GW1 expansions or something.

    I think yoyu are misinformed about a few things.....

    Closed Beta means :That you are under a strict NDA (Non-Disclosure Act) you can collect all the information you want but without press access or permission from the publishers can't post the information in a public settting

    Open Beta means that you are not under a NDA and can discuss freely.

    Now as for GW1 you can go do a trial and have been able to do a trial for an extremely long time, its your fault for not realizing this.  Think of GW2 like any other game you buy similiar price, and no monthly subscription I am sure that there are console games people paid 60 bucks for played for 2 weeks and never will play again, so whats the difference

     

    There are times when one must ask themselves is it my passion that truly frightens you? Or your own?

  • MeleagarMeleagar Nunyadambidness, TXPosts: 407Member

    The Troll Initiative!!! Sounds like an Everquest expansion.

  • UnlightUnlight Ottawa, ONPosts: 2,540Member

    Originally posted by LordRelic

    Originally posted by Unlight


    Originally posted by monarc333

    Can't the OP prepurchase the game, try the beta, and if he doesnt like the game, cancel his purchase? After all the game is not coming out for a couple months.

    No.  Pre-purchase means the game is bought and the retailer will treat it as such, meaning no returns on open games, only exchanges for same.  Pre-orders can be cancelled at any time because you don't get any tangible benefits from it up front, such as using the pre-purchase code to gain beta access.  Remember, once a code is used, it's gone.  It gets tied to an account and only that account can ever use it.  The retailer can never sell that package to someone else once they've sent you the code.

    Umm i have done it in the past with other games.. I have yet to preorder GW2 but i dont want to burn out on it before its even released so im not worried.  but as for preorders 5 dollars down from gamestop gets it preordered witch will work for the beta weekeds.. ( just like it always has)

    Actually, pre-ordering will not get you beta weekend access, only pre-purchasing.  The only benefit I know of for pre-ordering is a one day headstart, as opposed to a three day headstart for pre-purchase.

  • RequiamerRequiamer ???Posts: 2,034Member

    Diablo3 is at final stage of beta, GW2 is at the begin of beta stage. SO maybe they will do it later, i personally don't know the anwser to you question OP.

  • SiphaedSiphaed Everywhere!Posts: 879Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by catplay

    I will not gonna spend my money with out trying that game.

    I've seen so many fanboys/haters comments, i really don't fallow any of them until i don't "feel" the game myself.

    So will be there an open beta/trial or Arenanet want to hide something from potential players just to get their money like they did with pre-purchasing the game with out playing?

    Blizzard was honest, they did open beta, they never had NDA for Diablo3, basically, they said "thats the game, play it, you like it, buy it".

    Is wicked how not even GW1 didnt received any kind of trial/beta .. just because they spent money on all GW1 expansions or something.

    There's more than enough information on this game for a love/hate or like/dislike choice by now.  If you "don't feel the game" at this point, most likely it's not for you.

     

    Beta Weekends, which are the only announced Beta Test events thus far, are mainly for those that Pre-purchased.  Because it's a stress test period to actually test the server stability for a ton of people....for those that actually want to and have purchased the game.  Arena Net are pleasing their actual customers, not those people that are on the fense and want a free game play experience.

     

    And what does honesty have to do with a trial.  That's not honest, that's free-beeies.  Honesty is saying one thing, and holding to it.  For example....being DISHONEST is saying that your game would have PvP, then changing your mind and saying it's not going to have it for some time until after the product launched (i.e. Blizzard on Diablo III).

     

     


  • HomituHomitu Hometown, HIPosts: 2,030Member

    Originally posted by catplay

    I will not gonna spend my money with out trying that game.

    I've seen so many fanboys/haters comments, i really don't fallow any of them until i don't "feel" the game myself.

    So will be there an open beta/trial or Arenanet want to hide something from potential players just to get their money like they did with pre-purchasing the game with out playing?

    Blizzard was honest, they did open beta, they never had NDA for Diablo3, basically, they said "thats the game, play it, you like it, buy it".

    Is wicked how not even GW1 didnt received any kind of trial/beta .. just because they spent money on all GW1 expansions or something.

     

    You're free to sign up for beta, which everyone will very likely eventually get in.  D3 has allowed an open beta a mere 3 weeks before the game is released.  When GW2 gets to that stage and you still haven't gotten into beta (not like you actually want to try the game anyway--you clearly don't, based on your posts--but just for the sake of argument), then this complaint might be valid.  

    Praising D3's "beta" as an example of allowing everyone to see the game so they can make an informed decision is also a laughable argument considering how little of the game they've allowed players to play.  They give you about 1 hour's worth of gameplay on a ridiculously easy, face-mashing difficulty.  Not only that, but the content doesn't even differ from the first hour of D1: help Deckard Cain and kill the Skeleton King.  So, we can conclude that we either A) see virtually nothing of the whole game, or B) the game IS virtually nothing.  

    If/when you get to participate in a GW2 beta, you will get to see MUCH more content than D3 has allowed players to see thus far, which is completely counter to your informed decision argument for the two games.   

  • L0C0ManL0C0Man Puerto OrdazPosts: 1,065Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Thane

    ...

    most likely they will throw out keys for the WEs once release has gotten abit closer.

    ...

    They're already doing it in a way. In PAX East back on february they didn't have a stand, but the anet people were walking around giving away beta keys, and they were present on the mmorpg.com panel, and from what I've heard, each seat had a beta key taped under it (someone on reddit.com claimed to have about 40 keys that he got after the event from people that didn't check under their seats and gave them away to people that PMed him), plus more they were giving away on the exit door. I've also seen several sweepstakes on twitter giving away beta key, but none officially from anet, so maybe those were just beta keys obtained from PAX.

    What can men do against such reckless hate?

  • evolver1972evolver1972 Port Orchard, WAPosts: 1,118Member

    Seems to me you have quite a few options.  You can rely on the gameplay videos, etc., but you've said you don't want to do that so that perfectly reasonable route is out of the picture.  You can sign up for the BWEs and hope to get in on one.  It's a possibilty, though probably kind of slim that you will actually get in.  You could wait until they announce a fully open beta, if they do - we don't know if they will or not.  Or you could wait until the game is released, I'm betting they'll offer a free trial of the game through their website.  At least, that's what they ended up doing with GW1.

     

    I do have to say this though....betas are not a trial.  They aren't there to appease your need to try out the game before you buy it.  They are there for the devs to figure out what bugs may be in the game and what kind of polish they need to put on it yet.  Do you never buy a game without playing a trial first?  In this case, it's like buying a console game that you haven't tried, since there's not subscription to go with it.  In fact, most MMOs would fall under that description since most of the subs offer the first month free when buying the box.

     

    I wonder though...judging by your post, you assume that Arenanet is maybe just out to rip people off.  This in the face of all the facts out there about the game and the rep of that company.  Are you just maybe trolling or not able to ask the question a little more objectively?

    image

    You want me to pay to play a game I already paid for???

    Be afraid.....The dragons are HERE!

  • HomituHomitu Hometown, HIPosts: 2,030Member

    Originally posted by Unlight

    Originally posted by LordRelic


    Originally posted by Unlight


    Originally posted by monarc333

    Can't the OP prepurchase the game, try the beta, and if he doesnt like the game, cancel his purchase? After all the game is not coming out for a couple months.

    No.  Pre-purchase means the game is bought and the retailer will treat it as such, meaning no returns on open games, only exchanges for same.  Pre-orders can be cancelled at any time because you don't get any tangible benefits from it up front, such as using the pre-purchase code to gain beta access.  Remember, once a code is used, it's gone.  It gets tied to an account and only that account can ever use it.  The retailer can never sell that package to someone else once they've sent you the code.

    Umm i have done it in the past with other games.. I have yet to preorder GW2 but i dont want to burn out on it before its even released so im not worried.  but as for preorders 5 dollars down from gamestop gets it preordered witch will work for the beta weekeds.. ( just like it always has)

    Actually, pre-ordering will not get you beta weekend access, only pre-purchasing.  The only benefit I know of for pre-ordering is a one day headstart, as opposed to a three day headstart for pre-purchase.

    Neither of you can speak in black and white language as every game will treat such terminology and definitions differently.  Tera, for instance, also required GW2's concept of "pre-purchasing" in order to participate in some of the earlier beta events, even if they did not call it so (they may have, I do not recall).  I paid for the game in full, upfront, from the en-masse website just so I could try the game out.  Once I got my fill of the beta (aka after about 2 hours of straight up kill quests), I sent them a customer service ticket requesting my service be cancelled, which they promptly did along with fully refunding my money.

    For GW2, your pre-purchase money is apparently not refundable.  You are informed as such upon making your purchase.  Pre-orders are different, and are as Unlight said.  

  • catplaycatplay MarbellaPosts: 71Member


    Originally posted by evolver1972
    Seems to me you have quite a few options.  You can rely on the gameplay videos, etc., but you've said you don't want to do that so that perfectly reasonable route is out of the picture.  You can sign up for the BWEs and hope to get in on one.  It's a possibilty, though probably kind of slim that you will actually get in.  You could wait until they announce a fully open beta, if they do - we don't know if they will or not.  Or you could wait until the game is released, I'm betting they'll offer a free trial of the game through their website.  At least, that's what they ended up doing with GW1.
     
    I do have to say this though....betas are not a trial.  They aren't there to appease your need to try out the game before you buy it.  They are there for the devs to figure out what bugs may be in the game and what kind of polish they need to put on it yet.  Do you never buy a game without playing a trial first?  In this case, it's like buying a console game that you haven't tried, since there's not subscription to go with it.  In fact, most MMOs would fall under that description since most of the subs offer the first month free when buying the box.
     
    I wonder though...judging by your post, you assume that Arenanet is maybe just out to rip people off.  This in the face of all the facts out there about the game and the rep of that company.  Are you just maybe trolling or not able to ask the question a little more objectively?


    I am not trolling at all.

    If i like the game i will buy it. If i dont like the game i will not.

    The point is, i want to try it myself.

    And yeah, not allowing me to try and force me to buy it, make me really suspicious, especially after i lost money on a few mmos this last years.

  • NerovipusNerovipus noofyourbusinessPosts: 35Member

    Originally posted by catplay

    I will not gonna spend my money with out trying that game.

    I've seen so many fanboys/haters comments, i really don't fallow any of them until i don't "feel" the game myself.

    So will be there an open beta/trial or Arenanet want to hide something from potential players just to get their money like they did with pre-purchasing the game with out playing?

    Blizzard was honest, they did open beta, they never had NDA for Diablo3, basically, they said "thats the game, play it, you like it, buy it".

    Is wicked how not even GW1 didnt received any kind of trial/beta .. just because they spent money on all GW1 expansions or something.

    Don't play then nobody is forcing you to buy the game.

  • BadSpockBadSpock Somewhere, MIPosts: 7,974Member

    Originally posted by catplay



    I am not trolling at all.

    If i like the game i will buy it. If i dont like the game i will not.

    The point is, i want to try it myself.

    And yeah, not allowing me to try and force me to buy it, make me really suspicious, especially after i lost money on a few mmos this last years.

    Point is you are asking for information that no one knows yet.

    In order to play right now, you have to pre-purchase.

    No one knows if there is going to be a truly open beta or not.

    It really is that simple.

  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread PshPosts: 5,503Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by catplay

     

    I am not trolling at all.

    If i like the game i will buy it. If i dont like the game i will not.

    The point is, i want to try it myself.

    And yeah, not allowing me to try and force me to buy it, make me really suspicious, especially after i lost money on a few mmos this last years.

    You should be suspicious. At some point they want you to give them money to play. Greedy bastards.

     

    But umm... no one is forcing you to buy it. I mean, if you want to play it, you'll probably have to buy it.

  • catplaycatplay MarbellaPosts: 71Member


    Originally posted by BadSpock

    Originally posted by catplay

    I am not trolling at all.
    If i like the game i will buy it. If i dont like the game i will not.
    The point is, i want to try it myself.
    And yeah, not allowing me to try and force me to buy it, make me really suspicious, especially after i lost money on a few mmos this last years.
    Point is you are asking for information that no one knows yet.
    In order to play right now, you have to pre-purchase.
    No one knows if there is going to be a truly open beta or not.
    It really is that simple.

    Thats why i ask, maybe some one knows and can share that info.

  • DerpybirdDerpybird Boston, MAPosts: 991Member

    Originally posted by catplay

    I am not trolling at all.

    If i like the game i will buy it. If i dont like the game i will not.

    The point is, i want to try it myself.

    And yeah, not allowing me to try and force me to buy it, make me really suspicious, especially after i lost money on a few mmos this last years.

    It's curous, because you have previously stated:

     

    "I have waited for GW2. However, i will not buy it because i dont like what i will get. But that's just me.

    I think lots of peoples will buy it expecting next gen mmo. But they will be disappointed as soon as they reach max level.

    I dont want to turn away fanboys, but for me the game fail because:

    - instances everywhere

    - delevel/uplevel

    - no world pvp/ open conflict

    - pve only in hub zones

    - solo unfriendly

    - lame combat system with active dodge ( dungeon with no tank/healer are just way to chaotic). this will draw many many players away, not just me.

    - no raids??"

     

    It appears that you already made your mind up, why start a whole new thread about it unless you have some other agenda? Also, you are mixing fact and opinion, and even some of your "facts" are just plain wrong.

    "Loading screens" are not "instances".
    Your personal efforts to troll any game will not, in fact, impact the success or failure of said game.

  • PurgatusPurgatus San Diego, CAPosts: 342Member

    This is open to anyone who signed up for the beta, so you could "try before you buy." Problem is, they are giving first dibs to those that pre-ordered it, and iwth all the pre-orders it will likely be hard to get in otherwise.

This discussion has been closed.