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How Exactly does position matter in combat?

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  • darkehawkedarkehawke SouthendPosts: 178Member

    i do not know of any flanking or rear attack bonuses.

    i aim to see more come next weekend. yeah ignore some of the more silly replies you got. how someone could tell you hadnt seen a video from your op is beyond me...

    Currently playing- SWG PreCU & GW 2
    Have tried WoW, AoC, & Vanguard, SWG:NGE, GW, LOTRO & SWTOR
    Best MMO: SWG
    Worst MMO: SWTOR

  • TheYear1500TheYear1500 Boise, IDPosts: 346Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Requiamer

    Originally posted by TheYear1500


    Originally posted by atziluth

    Since targeting is not necessary positioning is important in at least one simple aspect... not getting hit while hitting your target. Considering some hits can 1 shot or take 90% of your health... not being in the area of the swing will be very important. Other than that I have not heard of or seen any bonus to flank or rear attacks. However, they might be added or could be in the game, but no one has talked about it. 

    Your thinking of Tera not GW2.  NO shots take 90% of someone health or can 1 shot anything.  

    They are some mobs that seam to be able to one shot you or almost, i have seen some vid with that.

    Ya i was mistaken.  For some reason i was stuck on PVP.  You and he are correct.  Lots of Mobs do hit that hard.  

  • DerpybirdDerpybird Boston, MAPosts: 991Member

    Originally posted by ariboersma

    Originally posted by Charlizzard

    This is an excellent, extended video with a good player showing proper use of skills and positioning. It's 30 minutes, if you choose to watch it and have any questions let me know.

    http://www.gameinformer.com/games/guild_wars_2/b/pc/archive/2012/04/13/guild-wars-2-video-preview.aspx

    ;) I already posted it, the vid anyways.

    Oops.

    It really is terrific though isn't it, showing a very thoughtful combat system.

    "Loading screens" are not "instances".
    Your personal efforts to troll any game will not, in fact, impact the success or failure of said game.

  • ariboersmaariboersma Yankton, SDPosts: 1,802Member

    Originally posted by Charlizzard

    Originally posted by ariboersma


    Originally posted by Charlizzard

    This is an excellent, extended video with a good player showing proper use of skills and positioning. It's 30 minutes, if you choose to watch it and have any questions let me know.

    http://www.gameinformer.com/games/guild_wars_2/b/pc/archive/2012/04/13/guild-wars-2-video-preview.aspx

    ;) I already posted it, the vid anyways.

    Oops.

    It really is terrific though isn't it, showing a very thoughtful combat system.

    yes it is! I hope the OP watches it and is sitting down ;)

    image

  • ChrisboxChrisbox Monroe, NJPosts: 1,707Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by ariboersma

    Originally posted by Charlizzard


    Originally posted by ariboersma


    Originally posted by Charlizzard

    This is an excellent, extended video with a good player showing proper use of skills and positioning. It's 30 minutes, if you choose to watch it and have any questions let me know.

    http://www.gameinformer.com/games/guild_wars_2/b/pc/archive/2012/04/13/guild-wars-2-video-preview.aspx

    ;) I already posted it, the vid anyways.

    Oops.

    It really is terrific though isn't it, showing a very thoughtful combat system.

    yes it is! I hope the OP watches it and is sitting down ;)

    About half way through actually and learning quite a bit, I've been playing Tera open beta and Im starting to think GW2 has a similar combat system minus the aiming obviously, regardless I'll finally be able to try it out myself in the next beta weekend.  The video

    Played-Everything
    Playing-FFXIV:ARR

  • korent1991korent1991 CakovecPosts: 1,390Member

    Originally posted by TheYear1500

    Originally posted by atziluth

    Since targeting is not necessary positioning is important in at least one simple aspect... not getting hit while hitting your target. Considering some hits can 1 shot or take 90% of your health... not being in the area of the swing will be very important. Other than that I have not heard of or seen any bonus to flank or rear attacks. However, they might be added or could be in the game, but no one has talked about it. 

    Your thinking of Tera not GW2.  NO shots take 90% of someone health or can 1 shot anything.  

    You obviously haven't seen charrzooka yet :D... well it doesn't 1 shot you but it does a lot of damage if you don't avoid it.

    2 shot ? xD

    "Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life."
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    image
  • KuppaKuppa Boulder, COPosts: 3,292Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Chrisbox

    Originally posted by ariboersma


    Originally posted by Charlizzard


    Originally posted by ariboersma


    Originally posted by Charlizzard

    This is an excellent, extended video with a good player showing proper use of skills and positioning. It's 30 minutes, if you choose to watch it and have any questions let me know.

    http://www.gameinformer.com/games/guild_wars_2/b/pc/archive/2012/04/13/guild-wars-2-video-preview.aspx

    ;) I already posted it, the vid anyways.

    Oops.

    It really is terrific though isn't it, showing a very thoughtful combat system.

    yes it is! I hope the OP watches it and is sitting down ;)

    About half way through actually and learning quite a bit, I've been playing Tera open beta and Im starting to think GW2 has a similar combat system minus the aiming obviously, regardless I'll finally be able to try it out myself in the next beta weekend.  The video

    Ive played the Tera beta. I love the combat, although it could be better in some things. But, I can't stand the art or the rest of the game. Its way to much like any other MMO in that regard. That's why Im hopin that GW2 will break some of that.

    image


    image

  • RequiamerRequiamer ???Posts: 2,034Member

    Originally posted by Chrisbox

    Originally posted by ariboersma


    Originally posted by Charlizzard


    Originally posted by ariboersma


    Originally posted by Charlizzard

    This is an excellent, extended video with a good player showing proper use of skills and positioning. It's 30 minutes, if you choose to watch it and have any questions let me know.

    http://www.gameinformer.com/games/guild_wars_2/b/pc/archive/2012/04/13/guild-wars-2-video-preview.aspx

    ;) I already posted it, the vid anyways.

    Oops.

    It really is terrific though isn't it, showing a very thoughtful combat system.

    yes it is! I hope the OP watches it and is sitting down ;)

    About half way through actually and learning quite a bit, I've been playing Tera open beta and Im starting to think GW2 has a similar combat system minus the aiming obviously, regardless I'll finally be able to try it out myself in the next beta weekend.  The video

    Ye they are quiet similar, i think both games tried to transform and adapt fps like combat to fit more mmorpg. Few things are definitly different, but i think they kind of both had the same intention to begin with, "how to make action combat work better in mmorpgs?".

  • ariboersmaariboersma Yankton, SDPosts: 1,802Member

    Originally posted by Chrisbox

    Originally posted by ariboersma


    Originally posted by Charlizzard


    Originally posted by ariboersma


    Originally posted by Charlizzard

    This is an excellent, extended video with a good player showing proper use of skills and positioning. It's 30 minutes, if you choose to watch it and have any questions let me know.

    http://www.gameinformer.com/games/guild_wars_2/b/pc/archive/2012/04/13/guild-wars-2-video-preview.aspx

    ;) I already posted it, the vid anyways.

    Oops.

    It really is terrific though isn't it, showing a very thoughtful combat system.

    yes it is! I hope the OP watches it and is sitting down ;)

    About half way through actually and learning quite a bit, I've been playing Tera open beta and Im starting to think GW2 has a similar combat system minus the aiming obviously, regardless I'll finally be able to try it out myself in the next beta weekend.  The video

    it sort of is.. with Tera you are locked into an attack and cannot move and not all classes can dodge. With GW2 you have more targeted abilities but IMO a better action type combat. Another thing with Tera and perhaps you didn't experience it with the class you played but it got VERY repetetive and all I was doing was spamming one ability and then space, space, space for the combos. That seemed to be the case for both archer(to lvl 9) and mystic(to lvl 21).

    edit: also the REALLY annoying cursor leaving in Tera.. was really a pain to play my Mystic which had a lot of very situational abilities I wanted to have on side bars.

    image

  • PurgatusPurgatus San Diego, CAPosts: 342Member

    Position is vital for lots of reasons in GW2:

     

    1) Your abilites will go off regardless of range, and may not hit. If you are out of range of a Direct Damage skill, it will go into cooldown with no effect.

    2) enemies have directional and conal attacks that can be evaded with good positioning.

    3) AoE is Prevalent. Walls, Cones, Domes, etc. Many of these have direct effect effects on the enemy movment so proper placement is important or can obstrute attacks meant for allies

     

  • DLangleyDLangley Beaumont, TXPosts: 1,407Member

    Stay on topic please. Thanks.

  • TwoThreeFourTwoThreeFour Virginia, VAPosts: 2,131Member

    Originally posted by Purgatus

    Position is vital for lots of reasons in GW2:

     

    1) Your abilites will go off regardless of range, and may not hit. If you are out of range of a Direct Damage skill, it will go into cooldown with no effect.

    2) enemies have directional and conal attacks that can be evaded with good positioning.

    3) AoE is Prevalent. Walls, Cones, Domes, etc. Many of these have direct effect effects on the enemy movment so proper placement is important or can obstrute attacks meant for allies

     

     

    Your answer is concise and analytical, thank you. It tooks less than a minute to read while giving lots of relevant information. It is that kind of posts that are good in a forum, which is why I think linking to a video is a bad way to go in comparison.

     

    I am very intrigued in knowing exactly how positioning works in connection with the aggro-system. I've seen statements/videos claiming/showing/implicating that it does matter but no specifics with numbers and probabilities. 

  • atziluthatziluth Portsmouth, NHPosts: 1,195Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by TheYear1500

    Originally posted by atziluth

    Since targeting is not necessary positioning is important in at least one simple aspect... not getting hit while hitting your target. Considering some hits can 1 shot or take 90% of your health... not being in the area of the swing will be very important. Other than that I have not heard of or seen any bonus to flank or rear attacks. However, they might be added or could be in the game, but no one has talked about it. 

    Your thinking of Tera not GW2.  NO shots take 90% of someone health or can 1 shot anything.  

    Here is the video.

    http://www.gameinformer.com/games/guild_wars_2/b/pc/archive/2012/04/13/guild-wars-2-video-preview.aspx

    Read you later post... yes I was talking PvE not PvP. No worries though.

    2nd edit) Same video as the other posts.... by far one of the best out there for learning useful information about the combat system and what to expect past 30. Also another poster was correct there are some elite skills that can quickly take you out in PvP if you don't move... Barrage and the mortar being two that come to mind. 

    -Atziluth-

    - Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.

  • UngoHumungoUngoHumungo Middletown, OHPosts: 518Member

    Originally posted by Purgatus

    Position is vital for lots of reasons in GW2:

     

    1) Your abilites will go off regardless of range, and may not hit. If you are out of range of a Direct Damage skill, it will go into cooldown with no effect.

    2) enemies have directional and conal attacks that can be evaded with good positioning.

    3) AoE is Prevalent. Walls, Cones, Domes, etc. Many of these have direct effect effects on the enemy movment so proper placement is important or can obstrute attacks meant for allies

     

    I would like to add to this.....

    4) The positions of certain skills have direct influence as well adding to the combo system, you may choose that positioning your firewall in front of  the ranged combatants giving them the combo bonus from it, is more prudent than placing it directly on the enemy.

     

    thats all I got :D

    There are times when one must ask themselves is it my passion that truly frightens you? Or your own?

  • PurgatusPurgatus San Diego, CAPosts: 342Member

    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

    Originally posted by Purgatus

    Position is vital for lots of reasons in GW2:

     

    1) Your abilites will go off regardless of range, and may not hit. If you are out of range of a Direct Damage skill, it will go into cooldown with no effect.

    2) enemies have directional and conal attacks that can be evaded with good positioning.

    3) AoE is Prevalent. Walls, Cones, Domes, etc. Many of these have direct effect effects on the enemy movment so proper placement is important or can obstrute attacks meant for allies

     

     

    Your answer is concise and analytical, thank you. It tooks less than a minute to read while giving lots of relevant information. It is that kind of posts that are good in a forum, which is why I think linking to a video is a bad way to go in comparison.

     

    I am very intrigued in knowing exactly how positioning works in connection with the aggro-system. I've seen statements/videos claiming/showing/implicating that it does matter but no specifics with numbers and probabilities. 

    Thank you. In the TERA forum, as I just made an acount, and my posts are low, my opinion is not worth much. lol. (though I fully expect it as I am belittling that game somewhat)

     

    Aggro does indeed seem to factor distance.

     

    Say a Thief pulls aggro from a Guardian. The guardian can lay down a wall of warding preventing the mob from getting to the Thief and another character could close in and get aggro.

     

    I almot forgot one other crucial thing, Combo Attacks.

     

    Laying down certain skills is imperitive to createing effective combinations. Correct placement of a Guardian symbol, for example, would mean the difference between a volley of shots doing damage and a volley of shots doing damage and clearing debuffs on the character in the mob's face.

  • PhramePhrame Philadelphia, PAPosts: 29Member

    Originally posted by darkehawke

    i do not know of any flanking or rear attack bonuses

    Thief has a few of these. These two traits:

    http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Flanking_Critical_Chance

    http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Flanking_Stikes

    Pair with this sword/dagger combo skill:

     

    http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Flanking_Strike_(dual_skill)

     

    Not sure about other classes, though there may be a few.

  • BaniscoBanisco LoquilandiaPosts: 240Member

    Originally posted by Phrame

    Originally posted by darkehawke

    i do not know of any flanking or rear attack bonuses

    Thief has a few of these. These two traits:

    http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Flanking_Critical_Chance

    http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Flanking_Stikes

    Pair with this sword/dagger combo skill:

     

    http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Flanking_Strike_(dual_skill)

     

    Not sure about other classes, though there may be a few.

    Rangers with shortbows get a bonus to damage wen attaking from the sides, also the longbow deals more damage the farther you are.

  • Terminus-EstTerminus-Est GlasgowPosts: 352Member

    Originally posted by Banisco

    Rangers with shortbows get a bonus to damage wen attaking from the sides, also the longbow deals more damage the farther you are.

    The last one seems a bit strange. There is obviously no physics reason for this, so it isn't a realism thing, and I would have thought, gameplay wise, it would be more dynamic to make shorter distances yield more damage.

  • asianbboy101asianbboy101 what, MNPosts: 82Member

    Originally posted by Terminus-Est

    Originally posted by Banisco



    Rangers with shortbows get a bonus to damage wen attaking from the sides, also the longbow deals more damage the farther you are.

    The last one seems a bit strange. There is obviously no physics reason for this, so it isn't a realism thing, and I would have thought, gameplay wise, it would be more dynamic to make shorter distances yield more damage.

    It's already been confirmed. The further your're away from your opponent, the more damage you do on your long bow. Check on wiki or youtube videos or guru forum. The dev there confirmed it.

  • Terminus-EstTerminus-Est GlasgowPosts: 352Member

    Originally posted by asianbboy101

    Originally posted by Terminus-Est


    Originally posted by Banisco



    Rangers with shortbows get a bonus to damage wen attaking from the sides, also the longbow deals more damage the farther you are.

    The last one seems a bit strange. There is obviously no physics reason for this, so it isn't a realism thing, and I would have thought, gameplay wise, it would be more dynamic to make shorter distances yield more damage.

    It's already been confirmed. The further your're away from your opponent, the more damage you do on your long bow. Check on wiki or youtube videos or guru forum. The dev there confirmed it.

    No - I wan't saying it was any different. I have seen this said by the devs too. I was just meaning that it seems a strange design decision. But then I haven't played the game yet, so maybe it is unfair to say...

  • MeowheadMeowhead New Carlisle, INPosts: 3,716Member

    Originally posted by Terminus-Est

    No - I wan't saying it was any different. I have seen this said by the devs too. I was just meaning that it seems a strange design decision. But then I haven't played the game yet, so maybe it is unfair to say...

    The mesmer great sword attack is like that too, where the further away you are, the more damage the beam does.

    I don't see why it's that strange of a design decision (Even if it doesn't make much physics sense)  It means that those particular weapons, there is a clear advantage to being further away, with diminishing returns the closer you get.  If everything was more powerful closer up, people would just stand toe to toe no matter what weapon it is they were using. :)

  • ShojuShoju Hicksville, NYPosts: 771Member Uncommon

    There is also the issue of threat.  Proximity is one of the factors in deciding whether or not a mob is going to choose your face to turn into ground beef or not.

  • aesperusaesperus Hamshire, NVPosts: 5,128Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Shoju

    There is also the issue of threat.  Proximity is one of the factors in deciding whether or not a mob is going to choose your face to turn into ground beef or not.

    This ^

    Thread (or more accurately aggro) is determined not only by proximity, but also health (players with lower HP will get attacked more often), as well as damage output (characters doing more damage will tend ot get attacked more often). All of this is constantly calculated throughout the fight, so if you are a squishy caster type, you may want to make sure that you are positioning yourself so that either a more durable class can intercept attacks aimed at you, or so that you can deal damage as well as buff / support allies via cross-class combos.

    There's a lot of examples, & I feel this explain this fairly well in the video where Anet plays a mesmer (can't seem to find it for some reason). Basically, in that example he starts playing w/ a thief. He would constantly position himself so he was not only avoiding the big Ettin attacks, but also so he could knock those attacks away from his allies, or so that if they did try to attack him it would miss the thief.

  • terrantterrant Virginia Beach, VAPosts: 1,683Member

    Originally posted by Terminus-Est

    Originally posted by asianbboy101


    Originally posted by Terminus-Est


    Originally posted by Banisco



    Rangers with shortbows get a bonus to damage wen attaking from the sides, also the longbow deals more damage the farther you are.

    The last one seems a bit strange. There is obviously no physics reason for this, so it isn't a realism thing, and I would have thought, gameplay wise, it would be more dynamic to make shorter distances yield more damage.

    It's already been confirmed. The further your're away from your opponent, the more damage you do on your long bow. Check on wiki or youtube videos or guru forum. The dev there confirmed it.

    No - I wan't saying it was any different. I have seen this said by the devs too. I was just meaning that it seems a strange design decision. But then I haven't played the game yet, so maybe it is unfair to say...

    There's a certain logic to it. A longer shot with a REAL longbow would have a longer drop phase (remember, arrows in the real world travel in an arc). Since velocity increases over time as an item falls (up to terminal anyway), the longer an arrow falls, the more velocity it has when it lands, hence more damage.

  • Terminus-EstTerminus-Est GlasgowPosts: 352Member

    Originally posted by terrant

    Originally posted by Terminus-Est

    No - I wan't saying it was any different. I have seen this said by the devs too. I was just meaning that it seems a strange design decision. But then I haven't played the game yet, so maybe it is unfair to say...

    There's a certain logic to it. A longer shot with a REAL longbow would have a longer drop phase (remember, arrows in the real world travel in an arc). Since velocity increases over time as an item falls (up to terminal anyway), the longer an arrow falls, the more velocity it has when it lands, hence more damage.

    No. Unless you are really tall and shooting ants on the ground, the gravitational effect cancels out. The arrow has to go up as much as it goes down, so the increase in potential energy (and decrease in kinetic energy and thus speed) on the way up cancels with the decrease in potential energy (and increase in kinetic energy and thus speed) on the way down. Gravity is a conservative force. In fact, the arrow should slow down due to air resistance, making the damage less for further away targets.

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