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I don't think those add up to actually viable builds, though, so I don't like those kinds of number spraying. But the truth is Diablo 2 had a pretty small pool of viable builds, and Diablo 3s system has potential for many more due to the improved structure of the skill system.
Originally posted by Fadedbomb Originally posted by Axxar I don't think those add up to actually viable builds, though, so I don't like those kinds of number spraying. But the truth is Diablo 2 had a pretty small pool of viable builds, and Diablo 3s system has potential for many less due to the dumbed down structure of the skill system.
Fixed that for you.
The new "skill system" they've implemented is pathetic. There's no way anyone who isn't trolling can seriously comment that the new system they have for Diablo 3 is in ANY way, shape, or form "better". Please stop trolling.
Nones trolling just because they might not agree with you.
I'd also suggest you don't go around editing what people have said just becasue they don't fit in with your, 'It's not Diablo I with better graphics, so it's crap', argument.
But I guess you played Diablo I loads so you know better huh? Your entitled to your opinion but seriously don't post on a public forum if your not prepared for some views that don't fit in with your own.
This looks like a job for....The Riviera Kid!
What is wrong with you? People who defend the game respectfully are being considered trolls now? This is no more than bullying on a web forum, time to grow up.
Originally posted by skeaser Here's what I've disliked so far: My internet here isn't the greatest so it sucks having lag spikes playing solo.
That there is the biggest issue I have with Diablo 3 and the whole always-online DRM. There is a bloody good reason why Ubisoft got flamed to hell and back over the use of it, and why they've been backing down from using it in future games. Anyone remember when their game servers got a little cyber-bullying thrown towards them? It forced all of the games that used the Always-On DRM at the time to become completely unplayable for a period of time.
And yet I'm not seeing nearly as much of that same force thrown Activision-Blizzards way, and its more than likely only because of "Hey its Blizzard, it MUST be alright if they do it!". They aren't doing it for the players benefit that's for sure. No one I knew that played Diablo 2 (a good hefty chunk of people both offline and online) were ever bothered by having single-player and multi-player characters separate. And why? Because Single Player was for when you didn't have internet access and/or just wanted to play around on your own, and multi was for when you and your friends felt like screwing around online and chat it up at the same time.
As for the other things, I have no clue why they do that now either. The Town Portals have always been a "one-way each way" item, and its stupid to change it since that was always a convenient and helpful system (funny too considering Acti-Blizz is all about the "Convenience" of players now).
And its doubly stupid to have unidentified items if it takes nothing to identify them. In fact, again it goes against that "convenience" Acti-Blizz is all about. It's definitely not an improvement over the earlier systems that's for sure.
As for the OP, grow up. You may have some good points, but you're better off sticking to making arguments and defending and addressing yours and others opinions, instead of childishly quoting and "fixing" someone's post. So once you graduate from that kindergarden behavior, try and actually post instead of blatantly trolling.
I'd love to check out the open beta and see what it is like for myself, but every time I've tried to logon I get an error saying the servers are full.
That I think is the biggest failing of this game. I shouldn't be stopped from playing a single player game because there are too many other people playing it.
The Enlightened take things Lightly
"Seriously, one of the major gripes I hear about Diablo 3 is that they ONLY kept the Barbarian from Diablo 2. Hardcore fans created petition after petition for MANY of the "core" classes to return from Diablo 2 to Diablo 3 only to be completely shot down by Blizzard with a firm "NO". Granted this was supposed to be a (+), but it was worth mentioning. "
They will all appear, do not worry about that. either you will get them in groups in a few "expansion" or you will be able to buy them class by class for extra money. They saved the barbarian because they needed ONE original class, otherwise there would have been an uproar. but you will see all the others showing up later as well, I promise. its about makin gmoney here, not costumer satisfaction.
Like in D2: on the homepage at first, the Assasin and the druid guy was in the lineup at first.. then removed closer to launch. I wondered where they went, then got my answer in the expansion. same here. They are allready done, all the classes. They have just removed them to make more money. They KNOW you are willing to pay for them.
"This is not a game to be tossed aside lightly. It should be thrown with great force"
It's much better. In D2 you had all of 2-3 skills to use because of how their skill system was. You would pump points in to max out 4 maybe 5 skills(most of which synergized with the main spell you wanted to use). All this added up to using 2-3 skills total most of the time. Seriously go look up the builds. You'll find 4-5 skills maxed to 20 and the rest are 1 points just to get to good skills. The system worked but it was anything but great.
A system where I can actually use other spells and have them be viable is sooo much better, not to mention the huge amount of flexibility it offers people in builds.
You gathered all that from playing 1/4 of Act 1?
Originally posted by Fadedbomb The fact of the matter is that, from a Diablo Fan's point of view, Diablo 3 is a travesty and does nothing but spit in the fan's face. The amount of dumbed down childish antics that are prevalent throughout this Stress Test AND Closed Beta is absolutely insane. I'm sorry that you disagree, but it is the truth here. Again, if you enjoy the game props to you, but most of us cannot.
No, the fact of the matter is that from a personal viewpoint, Diablo 3 spits in YOUR face. As a huge fan of Diablo 2 who played it for years, I am personally impressed with what they've done so far, and my cousin (who also is a big Diablo fan) and I have been having a blast with the beta, and can't wait for May 15th.
Please don't try and speak for an entire fanbase ever again. Thanks.
Originally posted by Cursedsei Originally posted by skeaser Here's what I've disliked so far: My internet here isn't the greatest so it sucks having lag spikes playing solo.
Back then you might've not had internet access all the time due to various reasons. Nowadays you have internet everywhere you go. I think soon even my calculator will be able to connect to the internet just for lolz. So I don't get why people cry so much about this.
Even back then after a while I would never play D2 single player because it was pointless. No progression, no fun.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Originally posted by Kost You gathered all that from playing 1/4 of Act 1? Impressive.
Embarrassing, is what I'd say.
Anyone quoting the "dumbing down" of the skill system probably thinks the universe is geocentric even in the face of all contrary evidence. Not only do they not understand what has been implemented in D3, and the inherent flexibility it provides, but their ego is clouding their judgement. Just because you can pick something in a skill tree doesn't make you a badass.
They don't realize that the illusion of choice in D2 didn't buy them anything and they used the same cookie cutter builds as everyone else. At least on anything higher than Nightmare, anyway.
The internet is an amazing platform for some people to showcase their deficiencies as a person.
Originally posted by Lobotomist Originally posted by darkbalth Open Beta has not even been out for 24 hours and alot of time servers have been down. I am willing to bet 3/4 of the people complaining didnt even play the beta. I have played since diablo 1 and I find diablo 3. Of course the game changed some why wouldnt it. Why remake diablo 1 or 2 if i want to play them i will play them not a remade version. Even for those that did play the beta it is lvl 1-13! enough said on that. Stop trolling on all the forumns you find because you do not like blizzard.
I played the game.
I waited for the damn thing for 10 years. Now i finally got into beta. I was bored after 5 hours.
Just for comparison, i am playing Path of Exile (beta) that is also diablo clone. And the game is 1000% more addicting
You are getting bored after playing a 30 minute beta for 5 hours. Consider this for a moment..
@ OP - as a legacy player since D1, I can tell you were a serious player from the points you bring up. I agree with you 90%. I can live with things evolving and changing; but some of the missing features really do take away things that I loved about the series in the first place.
I won't try to judge how easy it is off this sample, but I will say it definitely felt
1.) very very linnear ... very narrowly pathed ... too hand held with beacons and icons
2.) lacked the Diablo atmosphere / feeling
3.) just felt like a different game. Like a knock-off?
I mean I will likely buy it based on my desire to see the story through .. but I was disapointed in what the game / game play / atmosphere / visuals / odd story elements .. have become.
Originally posted by stayghost @ OP - as a legacy player since D1, I can tell you were a serious player from the points you bring up. I agree with you 90%. I can live with things evolving and changing; but some of the missing features really do take away things that I loved about the series in the first place. I won't try to judge how easy it is off this sample, but I will say it definitely felt 1.) very very linnear ... very narrowly pathed ... too hand held with beacons and icons 2.) lacked the Diablo atmosphere / feeling 3.) just felt like a different game. Like a knock-off? I mean I will likely buy it based on my desire to see the story through .. but I was disapointed in what the game / game play / atmosphere / visuals / odd story elements .. have become.
Amen to this. Pretty much my feelings exactly.
You know what?
God damn it, I can't believe I'm going to say this...
It's a better skill system than D2. It really is. After playing the game for a few hours and messing around with it, D3's skill system really is better. It's dumbed down, yes... but not in the way most people seem to think. I think a better way of putting it would be 'idiot proof'. You really can't gimp yourself with this system, even if you TRY. Every playstyle seems viable, and even if you pick a poor spell/rune combination, you can simply TP out to a safe area and try something else.
Yes, you can reset your skills in D2 by talking to Akara after clearing the Den of Evil, or by collecting essences (I don't really remember, it's been years), but that's a huge pain in the ass. Not to mention that essences can only be collected on Hell difficulty, which is pretty much where you find out your particular build is crap anyway. I've had that happen to me and it SUCKS.
The system in D3 allows for consequence-free experimentation, and you don't have to scour the web looking for info about viable builds and such, which is good because I'm getting too old for that shit.
That being said, I don't find it all to be rainbows and sunshine, not by a long shot. The graphics remind me of Torchlight a LOT more than any Diablo game has a right to, the gore and piles of bodies be damned. I also don't really care for the health orbs very much, as they remove almost all challenge from the game (on normal), a few close calls with groups of teleporting mobs notwithstanding.
I do wish they'd have left having to find runes in the game. Getting them all up front is just silly, and pandering to the 'me now' generation. Finding a kickass rune for your favorite skill after slaughtering several armies' worth of zombies would've been very rewarding.
About all I can think of ATM. I actually enjoyed my time in game much more than I thought I would, and I will say that a purchase has gone from 'no way in hell' to a resounding 'maybe'. If only they didn't have that damned RMAH...
Edit: If this had not been a Diablo game, I'd buy it for sure. But it feels like Diablo in name only, which bothers me a lot.
Oh noes, other people like something I dont, so they must be trolling!
Id suggest you get over yourself and learn that different people like different things, I know it may be shocking that your opinion isnt the end all be all of everything, but its a fact you need to get over.
Apparently stating the truth in my sig is "trolling"Sig typo fixed thanks to an observant stragen001.
Originally posted by fivoroth Originally posted by Cursedsei Originally posted by skeaser Here's what I've disliked so far: My internet here isn't the greatest so it sucks having lag spikes playing solo.
To your first point, availability means jack squat if the connection itself is inconsistent. I may have internet connectivity on my computer, but its not consistent. Some days it'll go with just one disconnect, other days its kicking me offline every half hour. And heck, while we have long since graduated from dial-up, there are times where our service likes to pretend it is still the early 90s, kicking us off for random periods of times as soon as someone calls the house phone.
And again, it also doesn't account for if you decide to take the game on a laptop with you somewhere. I know I'm not the only one who has relatives who still don't have the internet, and if they do its certainly ain't anything better than dial-up.
You also ignored the other point I brought up. It's not just your internet stability that matters, but their servers as well. Again, Ubisoft has had more than a few attacks made on their authentication servers, which has reduced all of their at-the-time Always-On DRM PC titles reduced to nothing more than gigabyte-sized junk folders. Internet stability, much less server stability, should never interfere with my, or anyone elses, single-player experience.
As for your second point, that is entirely subjective. So you don't play single-player because you can't group up for your e-peen boosting epic "lewtz". That doesn't mean its a useless mode, and I never even claimed people played it for that. Its good for when you just want to play the game to play it.
You make me look like a total D3 devotee, and my own fairly well-read summation of D3 (within the framework of 'why I choose another game over D3') can be found on the off-topic board for that little 'Path of Exile' game some people here have mentioned. You have delivered a devastating write-up. I'm not entirely sure I agree with all of your points (Wizard and Monk DO fit into the Diablo universe -- just as Sierra about the latter, the former is just a rehash of the Sorcerer/Sorceress archetype), but it's very clear you've come to the same conclusion myself and many others have over the course of Diablo 3's closed beta and its increasingly disappointing iterations.
Please allow me to add a +1 recommending you to Path of Exile. I found it after pretty much reaching the same place as you re: D3. I got into the beta, then I wrote about it, and then I showed my support in other ways. I stipulate this because I have been accused of 'shilling' in the past. Quite the opposite -- I see disgruntled ex-Diablo fans like myself and want to share with them the joy of possibly playing a game that, in my opinion, carries the torch that D3 dropped. It's still closed beta and rough around the edges, but...it has that thing. That 'it' that makes a meaty, authentic ARPG/diablo type game work.
Anyway, that was a very thorough assault you made. I think we can safely say you're now immune to those 'see you at launch' twits. Good for you.
Hope you give PoE a go, maybe we'll see you there. If not, there's still Torchlight 2 and Grim Dawn. This is a good time for us ARPG veterans, and not just because of D3. If anything, ARPG gamers may well remember this as the worst time D3 could have picked to rear its ugly head...
PS apologies if you've addressed any of this throughout the course of the thread. I admit I didn't read all of it.
I just realized YOU'RE trolling with this post. Nice one.
Originally posted by fivoroth Back then you might've not had internet access all the time due to various reasons. Nowadays you have internet everywhere you go. I think soon even my calculator will be able to connect to the internet just for lolz. So I don't get why people cry so much about this. Even back then after a while I would never play D2 single player because it was pointless. No progression, no fun.
This is completely untrue. Not everyone has access to internet all the time and even if they did, it isn't always a good enough connection to play an online game.
Ever have to go on a trip somewhere with your laptop where the only internet was some poor wifi connection that you have to share with other people? Try gaming with that... it doesn't work that well.
Playing MUDs and MMOs since 1994.
quote from Ops review:
-The game is so ungodly easy it's rather sad. In my 4 different playthroughs from 1-10 I NEVER died once. I even NEVER had to pop an hp-pot. At LEAST in Diablo 2 even in the "normal" difficulty you died a couple times unless you were an uber-elitist who knew 100% what they were doing. HP pots were mandatory, and you never cryed foul even if you got one of those crappy ones. An HP pot generally meant life or death most of the time! Diablo 3? NOPE!
You really should of at least done some research....NO previous versions of Diablo had the difficulty modes offered in D3.
Normal...deliberately very easy so anyone with little or no RPG exp can pick up and play
Inferno...you're gonna die lots. this mode will most definately challenge anyone
Try to sound more informed if you're going to do a review
Originally posted by Distaste It's much better. In D2 you had all of 2-3 skills to use because of how their skill system was. You would pump points in to max out 4 maybe 5 skills(most of which synergized with the main spell you wanted to use). All this added up to using 2-3 skills total most of the time. Seriously go look up the builds. You'll find 4-5 skills maxed to 20 and the rest are 1 points just to get to good skills. The system worked but it was anything but great. A system where I can actually use other spells and have them be viable is sooo much better, not to mention the huge amount of flexibility it offers people in builds.
I am actually very curious about how the rune/skill system works out and I find it a potentially attractive alternative to the old skill tree system. It depends on how Blizzard implemented it though of course.
I loved D1 and D2, but they were extremely cookie cutter, especially if you wanted to be viable in Hell mode. I made some less optimal builds in D2 but I never planned to get the characters beyond Nightmare. I remember Blizzard nerfing and boosting certain classes too with each patch so that sometimes an entire class was lacklustre and got sidelined. It has been years now, but I remember Druids as basically being sort of fail overall in patch 9, and of course the long-term supremacy of Amazons.
I thought it was a pity too that the end-all and be all of D2 was doing cow levels in Hell mode. The synergy system just made it more cookie cutter than the game was at the start and in that sense I didn't like that change.
I really hope that they won't go through another cycle of boosting and nerfing entire classes again though. Each class and every build should be viable in the hardest difficulties of the game.
Though D2 was a classic game, I do think a lot of things could have been improved. I don't know if D3 has improved on them since I haven't beta'ed, but I hope so. I am willing to give this game a shot when it comes out.
Sadly, the people who cry about this game being 'easy', to bright and other stupid things are elitists, pure and simple.
The fear of blood tends to create fear for the flesh.
OP has mauled the game based on first impressions and makes some good points.
I'm on the fence. Seemd not to GRAB me as the other Diablo games did but (a) maybe the ol rose glasses are kicking in and the real "addiction" factor came later for D1 and D2 too, and (b) unlike the OP I think the skill system has merits (and subtleties that a first look doesn't see) so I am prepared to give it a shot.
Kind of a small thing but the lore bits and pieces made an impression on me, being voiced over when you encounter them, was something I really liked - it broke up the combat and engaged you with the world.
Originally posted by Fadedbomb Originally posted by Omnifish Originally posted by Fadedbomb Originally posted by Axxar I don't think those add up to actually viable builds, though, so I don't like those kinds of number spraying. But the truth is Diablo 2 had a pretty small pool of viable builds, and Diablo 3s system has potential for many less due to the dumbed down structure of the skill system.
They ARE, in fact, trolling when they outright claim that the newer system has "more viable" combinations than the old system. Just because they're trying to outlandishly defend the game for its worse points, and YOU want the game to not be attacked for said horrible points does NOT make me a troll.
It means I'm not willing to sit on the side lines and let people, yet again, just accept anything Blizzard makes without a haphazard "WHY DID YOU DO THIS?!".
Seriously, I'm frustrated because the MAJORITY of the replies, PMs, and replies on other Action-RPg forums are in agreement with me. Yet, the minority of Casual players, or people whom have never played Diablo before, are crying foul.
Look, I'm sorry, but if Blizzard made World of Warcraft 2, and it was in the design of STAR WARS GALAXIES you would cry foul like no other. Diablo 3 is that EXACT scenario for Diablo fans so please go somewhere else!
Stop this bullshit. Who made you the diablo-fan spokesperson?
I love Diablo. I love Diablo 2.
And guess what? I........Love.........Diablo..........3. That's right.
You know why? Because I understand and embrace changes. I don't want Diablo 2 with a big 3 slapped onto it. I want the next best thing. And this is it.