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Dont hate Bioware, Hate EA

stragen001stragen001 ReadingPosts: 1,720Member

Recently I have seen a lot of posts, and even news stories on this site being very critical of Bioware, and how they failed to build a proper MMO with SWTOR, screwed up the ending of ME3, and just plain got it wrong with DA2.

You will notice however that ALL of these games have been released since the excellent and well thought of indi studio Bioware got subsumed into the giant clusterf*ck that is EA.

Bioware WAS an amazing company and produced some, if not all of my favorite ever games. Everyone remembers and loves games like the Baldurs Gate series, Planescape Torment, MDK, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, the KOTOR series and ME1

During the time these games were made, Bioware was an independant studio and had full creative and development control of all its titles, and as we can see from the successes above, this was a good thing, that lead to good games.

When Bioware was bought by EA in 2007 is when everything started going downhill. Now, I dont know how much influence EA had, if any, on DA:O because I believe that it was already well under way, and this and ME2 may be the only exceptions to the rule here being that they were good games, produced after EA bought Bioware. However it is my opinion that this is because EA were pretty much leaving Bioware to their own devices at that point

However, Every game since will have been highly influenced by EA and it shows. And they have been poor compared to what we were used to when Bioware had full control. 

Nowadays, Bioware is just a brand of EA. Nothing more. Its just the name. Id imagine a large portion of the management and devs from the independant Bioware of old have moved on and now everything is done EA's way of get it out quick and hype it to hell so that by the time people realise the game is rubbish, we already have their money. Bioware is in fact now an amalgamation of Bioware, Mythic, and EA, and all of Bioware's core values have been lost :(

TL;DR - Its all EA's Fault, there is no Bioware anymore. 

Cluck Cluck, Gibber Gibber, My Old Mans A Mushroom

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Comments

  • JazKW347JazKW347 Vandalia, OHPosts: 54Member

    Sounds like what happened to Cryptic when Perfect World Bought it. I really hate when crap like this happens.

    image
  • DauzqulDauzqul Detroit, MIPosts: 1,402Member Uncommon

    You kidding me? It's because of BioWare we have this single-player bs.

    They have no clue.

  • dthmndthmn Phoenix, AZPosts: 11Member

    Originally posted by stragen001

    Recently I have seen a lot of posts, and even news stories on this site being very critical of Bioware, and how they failed to build a proper MMO with SWTOR, screwed up the ending of ME3, and just plain got it wrong with DA2.

    You will notice however that ALL of these games have been released since the excellent and well thought of indi studio Bioware got subsumed into the giant clusterf*ck that is EA.

    Bioware WAS an amazing company and produced some, if not all of my favorite ever games. Everyone remembers and loves games like the Baldurs Gate series, Planescape Torment, MDK, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, the KOTOR series and ME1

    During the time these games were made, Bioware was an independant studio and had full creative and development control of all its titles, and as we can see from the successes above, this was a good thing, that lead to good games.

    When Bioware was bought by EA in 2007 is when everything started going downhill. Now, I dont know how much influence EA had, if any, on DA:O because I believe that it was already well under way, and this and ME2 may be the only exceptions to the rule here being that they were good games, produced after EA bought Bioware. However it is my opinion that this is because EA were pretty much leaving Bioware to their own devices at that point

    However, Every game since will have been highly influenced by EA and it shows. And they have been poor compared to what we were used to when Bioware had full control. 

    Nowadays, Bioware is just a brand of EA. Nothing more. Its just the name. Id imagine a large portion of the management and devs from the independant Bioware of old have moved on and now everything is done EA's way of get it out quick and hype it to hell so that by the time people realise the game is rubbish, we already have their money. Bioware is in fact now an amalgamation of Bioware, Mythic, and EA, and all of Bioware's core values have been lost :(

    TL;DR - Its all EA's Fault, there is no Bioware anymore. 

     

    You are wrong in every way possible. 

    EA is definitally no better, perhaps up to par with how crappy Activision is.

    But to state that it's EA's fault for BioWare having terrible games? That's just BS.

    BioWare never made any good games, and don't use friggin KOTOR to defend that, because that game wasn't all that great either. 

    BioWare was decent at best with games, then slowly progessed to become a hell of alot worse which is where they are now.

    It's not EA's fault, it IS BIoWare's fault for not knowing how to make a proper game.  Companies like iD show the same thing with Rage. How a game like Wolfenstein and DOOM can be the best of games back then, and they turn things into terrible games like RAGE and DOOM 3. 

    EA is nothing but the publisher and has barely any influence over BioWare, get that through your thick BioDrone skull and realize the truth.

  • dthmndthmn Phoenix, AZPosts: 11Member

     
  • stragen001stragen001 ReadingPosts: 1,720Member

    Originally posted by dthmn

    Originally posted by stragen001

     

    You are wrong in every way possible. 

    EA is definitally no better, perhaps up to par with how crappy Activision is.

    But to state that it's EA's fault for BioWare having terrible games? That's just BS.

    BioWare never made any good games, and don't use friggin KOTOR to defend that, because that game wasn't all that great either. 

    BioWare was decent at best with games, then slowly progessed to become a hell of alot worse which is where they are now.

    It's not EA's fault, it IS BIoWare's fault for not knowing how to make a proper game.  Companies like iD show the same thing with Rage. How a game like Wolfenstein and DOOM can be the best of games back then, and they turn things into terrible games like RAGE and DOOM 3. 

    EA is nothing but the publisher and has barely any influence over BioWare, get that through your thick BioDrone skull and realize the truth.

    So you are saying that Baldurs Gate series, Planescape Torment, MDK, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, the KOTOR series and ME1 were rubbish?

    I think the majority of people would disagree wtih you on that....

    Also, EA IS Bioware. There is no such thing as Bioware anymore. 

    Cluck Cluck, Gibber Gibber, My Old Mans A Mushroom

  • joocheesejoocheese San Antonio, TXPosts: 845Member

    There's a special place in the deepest and darkest corner of Hell for EA Games. I'm counting the days when EA Games files for bankruptcy.

  • Ice-QueenIce-Queen USA, GAPosts: 2,451Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by mmoDAD

    You kidding me? It's because of BioWare we have this single-player bs.

    They have no clue.

    I agree, it was BW devs/team leads that didn't listen to testers, not EA.

    image

    What happens when you log off your characters????.....
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
    Dark Age of Camelot

  • WorstluckWorstluck the valley, CAPosts: 1,269Member

    Originally posted by stragen001

    Originally posted by dthmn


    Originally posted by stragen001

     

    You are wrong in every way possible. 

    EA is definitally no better, perhaps up to par with how crappy Activision is.

    But to state that it's EA's fault for BioWare having terrible games? That's just BS.

    BioWare never made any good games, and don't use friggin KOTOR to defend that, because that game wasn't all that great either. 

    BioWare was decent at best with games, then slowly progessed to become a hell of alot worse which is where they are now.

    It's not EA's fault, it IS BIoWare's fault for not knowing how to make a proper game.  Companies like iD show the same thing with Rage. How a game like Wolfenstein and DOOM can be the best of games back then, and they turn things into terrible games like RAGE and DOOM 3. 

    EA is nothing but the publisher and has barely any influence over BioWare, get that through your thick BioDrone skull and realize the truth.

    So you are saying that Baldurs Gate series, Planescape Torment, MDK, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, the KOTOR series and ME1 were rubbish?

    I think the majority of people would disagree wtih you on that....

    Also, EA IS Bioware. There is no such thing as Bioware anymore. 

     

    Haha yeah.  Those games were generally accepted as a good to great games.  In my opinion they are.  I can definitely see a decline in their game since them being bought by EA.  I know that every game they have released since Kotor I have enjoyed a little less.  I am no biodrone but they did make some good games.

    image

  • GroovyFlowerGroovyFlower RdamPosts: 1,245Member

    Originally posted by stragen001

    Recently I have seen a lot of posts, and even news stories on this site being very critical of Bioware, and how they failed to build a proper MMO with SWTOR, screwed up the ending of ME3, and just plain got it wrong with DA2.

    You will notice however that ALL of these games have been released since the excellent and well thought of indi studio Bioware got subsumed into the giant clusterf*ck that is EA.

    Bioware WAS an amazing company and produced some, if not all of my favorite ever games. Everyone remembers and loves games like the Baldurs Gate series, Planescape Torment, MDK, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, the KOTOR series and ME1

    During the time these games were made, Bioware was an independant studio and had full creative and development control of all its titles, and as we can see from the successes above, this was a good thing, that lead to good games.

    When Bioware was bought by EA in 2007 is when everything started going downhill. Now, I dont know how much influence EA had, if any, on DA:O because I believe that it was already well under way, and this and ME2 may be the only exceptions to the rule here being that they were good games, produced after EA bought Bioware. However it is my opinion that this is because EA were pretty much leaving Bioware to their own devices at that point

    However, Every game since will have been highly influenced by EA and it shows. And they have been poor compared to what we were used to when Bioware had full control. 

    Nowadays, Bioware is just a brand of EA. Nothing more. Its just the name. Id imagine a large portion of the management and devs from the independant Bioware of old have moved on and now everything is done EA's way of get it out quick and hype it to hell so that by the time people realise the game is rubbish, we already have their money. Bioware is in fact now an amalgamation of Bioware, Mythic, and EA, and all of Bioware's core values have been lost :(

    TL;DR - Its all EA's Fault, there is no Bioware anymore. 

    In other words Bioware are such weak minded minions that EA dictate and Bioware obey like a slave?

    They can say NO and EA can't do anything about it. Unless Bioware was so stupid to handover the whole leadership and Bioware are just puppet now in the hands of EA, its Bioware's own fault not EA.

  • LucioonLucioon Palm Harbor, FLPosts: 814Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by stragen001

    Recently I have seen a lot of posts, and even news stories on this site being very critical of Bioware, and how they failed to build a proper MMO with SWTOR, screwed up the ending of ME3, and just plain got it wrong with DA2.

    You will notice however that ALL of these games have been released since the excellent and well thought of indi studio Bioware got subsumed into the giant clusterf*ck that is EA.

    Bioware WAS an amazing company and produced some, if not all of my favorite ever games. Everyone remembers and loves games like the Baldurs Gate series, Planescape Torment, MDK, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, the KOTOR series and ME1

    During the time these games were made, Bioware was an independant studio and had full creative and development control of all its titles, and as we can see from the successes above, this was a good thing, that lead to good games.

    When Bioware was bought by EA in 2007 is when everything started going downhill. Now, I dont know how much influence EA had, if any, on DA:O because I believe that it was already well under way, and this and ME2 may be the only exceptions to the rule here being that they were good games, produced after EA bought Bioware. However it is my opinion that this is because EA were pretty much leaving Bioware to their own devices at that point

    However, Every game since will have been highly influenced by EA and it shows. And they have been poor compared to what we were used to when Bioware had full control. 

    Nowadays, Bioware is just a brand of EA. Nothing more. Its just the name. Id imagine a large portion of the management and devs from the independant Bioware of old have moved on and now everything is done EA's way of get it out quick and hype it to hell so that by the time people realise the game is rubbish, we already have their money. Bioware is in fact now an amalgamation of Bioware, Mythic, and EA, and all of Bioware's core values have been lost :(

    TL;DR - Its all EA's Fault, there is no Bioware anymore. 

    When Bioware is small, there are things they wanted to do in their games but couldn't due to financial budgets and what not, so they have to be creative, they have to think outside the box, and with their creativity, we got AAA games that we all love.

    With EA backing up their budgets and providing them with everything they need to accomplish what they wanted, they no longer need to be creative, or think outside the box. They only have to ask and they receive. Thats why we have games that we do now. Bioware has lost its creative juice, and we as gamers is suffering because of it.

    Bottom line, Bioware got lazy

    You can't blame everything on EA, sure, they suck, but still , you have to blame the right people.

    Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.

  • fundayzfundayz Chatown, ONPosts: 463Member

    Originally posted by Tayah

    Originally posted by mmoDAD

    You kidding me? It's because of BioWare we have this single-player bs.

    They have no clue.

    I agree, it was BW devs/team leads that didn't listen to testers, not EA.

    Why do you think they didn't listen though?

    I would say it's because pressure from EA to produce simple, mainstream products in a short period of time. That is, the developers don't have the time to listen to testers and make the necessary changes because of duedates set by the publisher.

  • GroovyFlowerGroovyFlower RdamPosts: 1,245Member

    Originally posted by Lucioon

    Originally posted by stragen001

    Recently I have seen a lot of posts, and even news stories on this site being very critical of Bioware, and how they failed to build a proper MMO with SWTOR, screwed up the ending of ME3, and just plain got it wrong with DA2.

    You will notice however that ALL of these games have been released since the excellent and well thought of indi studio Bioware got subsumed into the giant clusterf*ck that is EA.

    Bioware WAS an amazing company and produced some, if not all of my favorite ever games. Everyone remembers and loves games like the Baldurs Gate series, Planescape Torment, MDK, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, the KOTOR series and ME1

    During the time these games were made, Bioware was an independant studio and had full creative and development control of all its titles, and as we can see from the successes above, this was a good thing, that lead to good games.

    When Bioware was bought by EA in 2007 is when everything started going downhill. Now, I dont know how much influence EA had, if any, on DA:O because I believe that it was already well under way, and this and ME2 may be the only exceptions to the rule here being that they were good games, produced after EA bought Bioware. However it is my opinion that this is because EA were pretty much leaving Bioware to their own devices at that point

    However, Every game since will have been highly influenced by EA and it shows. And they have been poor compared to what we were used to when Bioware had full control. 

    Nowadays, Bioware is just a brand of EA. Nothing more. Its just the name. Id imagine a large portion of the management and devs from the independant Bioware of old have moved on and now everything is done EA's way of get it out quick and hype it to hell so that by the time people realise the game is rubbish, we already have their money. Bioware is in fact now an amalgamation of Bioware, Mythic, and EA, and all of Bioware's core values have been lost :(

    TL;DR - Its all EA's Fault, there is no Bioware anymore. 

    When Bioware is small, there are things they wanted to do in their games but couldn't due to financial budgets and what not, so they have to be creative, they have to think outside the box, and with their creativity, we got AAA games that we all love.

    With EA backing up their budgets and providing them with everything they need to accomplish what they wanted, they no longer need to be creative, or think outside the box. They only have to ask and they receive. Thats why we have games that we do now. Bioware has lost its creative juice, and we as gamers is suffering because of it.

    Bottom line, Bioware got lazy

    You can't blame everything on EA, sure, they suck, but still , you have to blame the right people.

    And right people are Bioware to blame not EA becouse everybody already knew how EA where in the past with other companys, so blame Bioware not EA.

  • SlothnChunkSlothnChunk Kansas City, MOPosts: 460Member Uncommon

    I'm not an EA fan but you can't blame EA for Bioware's mistakes. EA gave Bioware the larget budget in gaming history and what did Bioware do with it? They made a single player game with co-op, dead lifeless worlds with no day/light cycles, left out basic elements found in MMOs for a decade, made space combat on rails, and showed they had no idea what end game combat is. On top of that they picked one of the worst engines I've ever seen.

    Bioware did that not EA. EA didn't spend the most on a game in history for those results. And they waited five years for it...it's not like the demanded it in a 2-3 years or anything.

  • stragen001stragen001 ReadingPosts: 1,720Member

     

    A lot of people seem to be missing a large part of my OP.

    There is no Bioware anymore. Bioware is a brand of EA pure and simple. EA bought 100% of Bioware and now completely own the brand. Since the purchase, what was Bioware has just been absorbed into EA. 

    EA are not just the publisher, EA ARE Bioware. Its not like EA are paying Bioware to develop games, EA are developing games in house under their Bioware brand. 

    Cluck Cluck, Gibber Gibber, My Old Mans A Mushroom

  • LarsaLarsa NurembergPosts: 990Member

    Originally posted by stragen001

    ...

    During the time these games were made, Bioware was an independant studio and had full creative and development control of all its titles, and as we can see from the successes above, this was a good thing, that lead to good games.

    When Bioware was bought by EA in 2007 is when everything started going downhill. ...

    Nowadays, Bioware is just a brand of EA. Nothing more. Its just the name. Id imagine a large portion of the management and devs from the independant Bioware of old have moved on and now everything is done EA's way of get it out quick and hype it to hell so that by the time people realise the game is rubbish, we already have their money. Bioware is in fact now an amalgamation of Bioware, Mythic, and EA, and all of Bioware's core values have been lost :(

    TL;DR - Its all EA's Fault, there is no Bioware anymore. 

    Correction, Stragen.

    In fact the (arguably) best Bioware games came not when Bioware was free to do as they wished but when their projects were heavily influenced and controlled by Atari, WotC and Lucas Arts (BG, NWN, Kotor).

    When Bioware was free to do as they wished (ME, DA:O) Bioware started to produce more interactive movies than computer games. That was a deliberate decision by the Bioware leadership to make Bioware products more accessible for a mass audience (the cinematic experience). From a business point of view Bioware's leadership was right in that - they succeeded.

    That happened long before Bioware got acquired by EA.

    I maintain this List of Sandbox MMORPGs. Please post or send PM for corrections and suggestions.

  • WorstluckWorstluck the valley, CAPosts: 1,269Member

    I understand your post, but I understand where the others are coming from.  Bioware was not forced to sell their souls to EA.  The decision was theirs to make in the first place.  They wanted to expand, they wanted more money for their projects. 

    image

  • SlothnChunkSlothnChunk Kansas City, MOPosts: 460Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by stragen001

     

    A lot of people seem to be missing a large part of my OP.

    There is no Bioware anymore. Bioware is a brand of EA pure and simple. EA bought 100% of Bioware and now completely own the brand. Since the purchase, what was Bioware has just been absorbed into EA. 

    EA are not just the publisher, EA ARE Bioware. Its not like EA are paying Bioware to develop games, EA are developing games in house under their Bioware brand. 

    You're partially right. Several existing EA studios were rebranded with the 'Bioware' label. However, Bioware Austin was created 5+ years ago directly by Bioware before being aquired by EA. They reported to Bioware's leadership, were created by that leadership, and that leadership visited Bioware Austin frequently.

  • HallowelHallowel somewhere in, MIPosts: 42Member

     






    Originally posted by stragen001

    Recently I have seen a lot of posts, and even news stories on this site being very critical of Bioware, and how they failed to build a proper MMO with SWTOR, screwed up the ending of ME3, and just plain got it wrong with DA2.

    You will notice however that ALL of these games have been released since the excellent and well thought of indi studio Bioware got subsumed into the giant clusterf*ck that is EA.

    Bioware WAS an amazing company and produced some, if not all of my favorite ever games. Everyone remembers and loves games like the Baldurs Gate series, Planescape Torment, MDK, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, the KOTOR series and ME1

    During the time these games were made, Bioware was an independant studio and had full creative and development control of all its titles, and as we can see from the successes above, this was a good thing, that lead to good games.

    When Bioware was bought by EA in 2007 is when everything started going downhill. Now, I dont know how much influence EA had, if any, on DA:O because I believe that it was already well under way, and this and ME2 may be the only exceptions to the rule here being that they were good games, produced after EA bought Bioware. However it is my opinion that this is because EA were pretty much leaving Bioware to their own devices at that point

    However, Every game since will have been highly influenced by EA and it shows. And they have been poor compared to what we were used to when Bioware had full control. 

    Nowadays, Bioware is just a brand of EA. Nothing more. Its just the name. Id imagine a large portion of the management and devs from the independant Bioware of old have moved on and now everything is done EA's way of get it out quick and hype it to hell so that by the time people realise the game is rubbish, we already have their money. Bioware is in fact now an amalgamation of Bioware, Mythic, and EA, and all of Bioware's core values have been lost :(

    TL;DR - Its all EA's Fault, there is no Bioware anymore. 



    I agree, as a former volunteer for EA in Ultima Online and an MMOer since 1997, I can safely say that I feel as though EA ruins every MMO they put their greedy hands on.  Before EA bought BioWare, I swore I'd never buy another EA title again.  I went back on this when SWtOR was released and am now regretting that as they are continuing to ruin every MMO they touch, SWtOR is no exception.  I have since quit SWtOR as I just do not forsee good things, which is apparently justified by the things going on right now within SWtOR and EA/BioWare.

    EA needs to stay away from MMOs and stick to what they are good at, which is sports games.

     

    Edit notes: Fixed some typos and inserted an omitted quote.

    ~Ra Hallowel

  • stragen001stragen001 ReadingPosts: 1,720Member

    Originally posted by Hallowel

    I agree, as a former volunteer for EA in Ultima Online and an MMO since 1997, I can safely say that I feel as though EA ruins every MMO they put their greedy hands on.  Before EA bought BioWare, I swore I'd never buy another EA title again.  I went back on this when SWtOR was released and am now regretting that as they are continuing to ruin every MMO they touch, SWtOR is no exception.  I have since quit SWtOR as I just do not forsee good things, which is apparently justified by the things going on right now within SWtOR and EA/BioWare.

    EA needs to stay away from MMOs and stick to what they are good at, which is sports games.

    Hehe made me think of:

    "E.A. - Its in the game" (unless its an MMO feature, in which case it almost certainly isnt in the game)

    Cluck Cluck, Gibber Gibber, My Old Mans A Mushroom

  • Black Isle made Planescape:torment.  The people who made Fallout 1&2.  Not Bioware.

     

    Edit: Also when you compare Black isle games to Bioware games you can see where Bioware falls down in my eyes.  Black Isle ismetric RPGs are truly open and have stories that fit awesomely with that openness and they generally  oftenhave created their own RPG systems or novel twists on a system. 

    Bioware has always been on rails in its stories.  You go here or here, but no where else.  You get the same story arc no matte what you just move one of two pieces around.

    All this hub bub about ME3 ending people don't realize Bioware has never been capable or inclined to make a game like Planescape or Fallout.

    Its not in them.

  • ConnmacartConnmacart OsloPosts: 681Member Uncommon

    Bioware agreed to sell their company and they couldn't have been so naive as to think it would be different from all the other companies EA bought. So Bioware is as much to blame as EA for every crap game being released under theBioware name now.

  • Loser60Loser60 VilniusPosts: 170Member

    I like Bioware, they make some of my favourite games, Ea publishes some of my favourite RTS's too, but they are very, VERY unreliable. I don't really get people boycotting them though.


  • Originally posted by Tayah

    Originally posted by mmoDAD

    You kidding me? It's because of BioWare we have this single-player bs.

    They have no clue.

    I agree, it was BW devs/team leads that didn't listen to testers, not EA.

    Actually alot of QA is handled by the publisher not the Developers.  But still I agree the developers should have been able to realize there was a serious problem with ME3 ending.

  • OpapanaxOpapanax Rochester, NYPosts: 973Member

    Originally posted by Tayah

    Originally posted by mmoDAD

    You kidding me? It's because of BioWare we have this single-player bs.

    They have no clue.

    I agree, it was BW devs/team leads that didn't listen to testers, not EA.

    I'm not trying to bash op but EA didn't sit down and program TOR. That's Bioware devs. which ever ones remain out the bunch. I really don't see how we can let either one escape any of the blame..

    One for making shit, the other one for selling the crap like it were golden nuggets..

    PM before you report at least or you could just block.

  • PyrateLVPyrateLV Las Vegas, NVPosts: 1,096Member Common

    Originally posted by JazKW347

    Sounds like what happened to Cryptic when Perfect World Bought it. I really hate when crap like this happens.

    I think you mean Atari

    Cryptic has done much better in regards to STO since PWE aquired them.

    Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR
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