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Originally posted by Ticotin Originally posted by Ramonski7 PvP does nothing but hamper MMOs with outlandish demands for balance classes. This limited the scope of PvE potential by allowing devs to skip out on making meaningful social content by catering to this game-killing feature. And that's what it is: A overblown, convoluted, mmo wreaking feature that has had it's time in the limelight and needs to step aside once more. True PvP would mean that the game has to include single player advancement and no endgame. I'm all for a real PvE game with no rules. And that includes true PvP. Because in such a game the players ARE part of the environment because they would be a product of said environment.
Some people just want to be told what to do, much like soldier ants. These people often want things to be routine and predictable, as well. They often like this type of environment to go on for years and years, as well...throughout multiple expansions. I'd continue, but I think you see where this is going.
Yeah kinda sad really. Day in and day out I see mmo after mmo released that caters to these two things like there needs to be line drawn to where neither side can cross. I say damn the line and put something in place to give both playing styles a reason to erase that line. I always thought about a system where a pure crafter could advance without any sort of combat inclusion or a merchant who's killed and robbed by a player and had the option of either hiring bountyhunter(PKer) or a hiring a npc mercenary to track and kill the target for him. Then the merchant gets a report that "so-and-so" has been successfully assassinated.
Some players just want a feeling of justice being served, not a chance to revamp their whole playing style to "try" to whup someone's arse, you know?
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Originally posted by Nerf09 Originally posted by bunnyhopper Originally posted by kb056 SWG had, and possibly still has, the best PvE game that has ever existed. PvE=Economyy, SWG had the best Economy ever in terms of PvE. SWG did have PvP but it was seondary to PvE. Pre-Cu had the best PvE/Economy any game has ever had.
Off topic but.... SWG has a good economy? There is no decay and no credit sink, with the most valuable items in general being taken from the trading card game as opposed to being looted or crafted. If you want to see what a true game economy is like try EVE, it's the only one of real note.
Eve Online has nothing on Pre-CU SWG. SWG had the best economy.
Take off the rose tinted glasses, no it didn't. CCP actually employs an economist to oversee the games economy.
Latests quarterly economic newsletter:
SWG had an excellent crafting system and with decay a better economy then the game post NGE, but it has never been a patch on EVE in terms of economy, no mmo has.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
I voted "yes".
The thing about PvP is you pretty much have to min-max and i can't get into that long-term. If i get it into my head i want to be a wood elf tank or a troll florist then that's what i want even if it's not the best build.
I like playing on the PvP servers of PvE games for the extra risk but i generally just play the PvE game unless someone *really* annoys me and then i go research how to stomp their class, collect some neccessary gear, then stomp them. But afterwards i go back to PvE again.
My ideal game would have to have PvP in it for "world" reasons as i'd want multiple races/factions and some of them would be at war - it would make no sense if a Paladin and Shadowknight bumped into each other in a dungeon and didn't fight - but in the games i've tried i haven't come across a PvPvE system that i particularly liked.
I'd be ultra strict about the rules though. Like you could kill players on your own side through voluntary duelling *or* you could switch on an outlaw flag which allowed you to attack someone involuntarily but if you killed them and there were witnesses (NPC or player) then you'd be marked an outlaw permanently and be KOS to the guards from then on (with perma-death) if they got you. Also the game would put a bounty on your head - both cash and faction etc. So you could do all the things that were realistically possible but the consequences of breaking your facton's laws would be realistically extreme as well.
Hell yes. PVP is fun sometimes, PVP sucks sometimes. Ditto on PVE or any other game element. As long as the game is fun though I couldn't care if I'm fighting with, for, or through other players, npcs, or paid staff of the game.
Originally posted by Toquio3 Im not a competitive person and I think pvp / competition brings out the worst in people. Also there is my signature =P
Let's look at the 2 most succesful on line PC games of the last 5 years:
WOW and Call of Duty.
Let's look at what people play for very long periods of time:
Competition based games like SC1/WC3 outrun games like Dragon Age by many many years of playing.
People seek out a challenge and this has to be cooperative and competitive ... "comparing against other humans".
The tric is to combine PVE and PvP within that competitive nature. PvP may never destroy or even hamper too much the individual fun and joy to play a game.
Games who simply lack this kind of competitve/comparing nature are mostly dull and one sided and hence have not very long staying power.
The immersion of a "world" is quickly fading in favor of competitive driven games - be that PVE or PVP.
Look at the polls, the surveys, look what subscriber mmos are successfull - there is not a single one that has only pvp.
PvP is a nice to have on top feature that does not help if the PvE-foundation of the game is weak or void.
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No, if that PvE MMO means kill X amount of rats and X amount of boars for the 80% of game content. That's boring. But if there is enough group content and I can avoid those silly quests I would play a 100% PvE MMO.
Totally agree. In my experience, PvP is overrun by bullies and rude people, who have no concept of strategy or tactics and rely consistently on brute force, who constantly crow about how their build is better than yours or how their equipment is better than yours, and who punctuate their sentences with profanity or leetspeak and can't hold a coherent conversation. If you do well, you become a target for adolescent revenge. If you do badly, you become a target for unceasing insults and belittling. Either way is not fun and not worth it.A PvE-only MMO? If it's a good game, sign me up. I won't miss the PvP features because I'm not using them anyway. And I won't miss the sorts of players who are only attracted to PvP.
I'm still hoping for a PvE-only game. The reason I've enjoyed MMO-games is the cooperative teamplay, exploration of the world and building your character. I can tolerate that PvP exists in a game, as long as it's up to me to choose whether I want to participate or not and as long as there would be no items/loot /rewards that would even remotely look to be of interest in PvE.
My dream game would probably have these features:
My real life is satisfying. I'm neither bullied or am a bully. My experience with hard core pvpers is that they are as a whole unhappy people with an ax to grind. They need to feel powerful and in control in at least one aspect of their life. They are the most vocal gamers, even though they are a minority. Every pvp server I've seen has been a failure. One reason is, because they aren't interested in fighting each other. They'd rather grief other players. Another reason is there just aren't enough of them. I love being a "care bear", so no pvp suits me fine.
I played Everquest for years so I guess the answer is "yes".
Im playing one right now. Vangaurd. And loving It!
I actually would never play a game where there was forced pvp everywhere.
EVe online has a huge safe area where i can take a breadth between wormhole exploration
Playing: PO, EVEWaiting for: WoD Favourite MMOs: VG, EVE, FE and DDOAny person who expresses rage and loathing for an MMO is preposterous. He or she is like a person who has put on full armor and attacked a hot fudge sundae.
theres pretty much allways some kind of PvP going on in MMOs ,it doesnt have to be about killing each other.
for example killing quest monsters before other player,starting to mine just second before other player,doing business with auction house,filling team spot before someone else etc.its all about Player vs Player.
and in many of these cases loser part loses much more than 5 second spawn time after getting killed.
Originally posted by ForumPvP theres pretty much allways some kind of PvP going on in MMOs ,it doesnt have to be about killing each other. for example killing quest monsters before other player,starting to mine just second before other player,doing business with auction house,filling team spot before someone else etc.its all about Player vs Player. and in many of these cases loser part loses much more than 5 second spawn time after getting killed.
More or less, yes. But just as you can make a MMO with only PvP you can make one with only PvE.
I in fact rather have a game that does either things to perfection than one that does both half @ssed as far too many games does.
very surprising results from the poll. almost an 80% in favour.....i would have never guessed so many people love pve so much.
Originally posted by Kaynos1972 And please give the reasons for your answers. Personally PVP has never been my cup of tea. It's not that i never tried, i just dont feel any sense of accomplishement fighting others peoples for what really ? Bragging rights ? There is already TONS of pvp game out there, mostly shooters, why does every MMO that comes out MUST have some sort of PVP in it ? Do you think we could have a succesful MMO without the PVP aspect ?
My answer is a definite NO.
I understand my reasons for it may not be shared by the majority today. Yet this preference comes from the way that I got introduced to MMO's and by implication what an MMO means to me.
To me an MMO is more than a single player game, where the player interacts with the environment on whatever adventure and setting that specific game offers.
For me an MMO is a virtual world, that has an environment yes, but where the Fun of the experience is not comming directly from my interaction versus that environment but rather from my interaction with other players in that environment we all share.
As such, an MMO that is 100% PVE, might just as well be a Single Player RPG, I see no difference between something like that and a single player game that people could even share some adventures online in Cooperative mode versus that environment, like the experience we got with Diablo and Diablo II, none were MMO's even if they had a multiplayer mode, was fun for a while but not something I would play consistently and continuously, there is simply no long term appeal to it.
The appeal of an MMO comes from the possibilities of interaction with other players, the first time I logged in to an MMO many years ago and following several years of playing single player games I said to my self "How wonderfully Cool is this!", it was not necessarilly about the PvP, but the fact that I could interact and share the game world with other players and that our individual choices in that world could affect one another.
PvP is a consequence of Interaction. Whenever there is interaction there is always potential for conflict, depending on the setting and specific situations as formed given a certain Sociaopolitical landscape in that virtual world there is always bound to be some source of conflict that expresses itself in the form of PvP.
In the more moder and degraded MMOs we see, the pvP has been shoeboxed in to specific areas and linked to specific actions, Battlegrounds etc. Its presence is still desirable because it offers a break from the routine and predicatable PVE which in time becomes redundant and boring.
So given the choice between an MMO that is 100% PVE without Battleground and an MMO that is 100% PVE with battlegrounds I would choose the later. Because in the overal view as a player I have the choice for some variety of actions and interaction, and since the Industry is not making Virtual World MMO's anymore (which if they did I would be playing these as a priority for sure).
We (players) are Human beings, we are not machines, a 100% PVE MMO is but a tred mill, it feels like a cage full of Hamster Wheels and every player is a Hamster trying to see who runs faster on their wheel or slower and creating gossip about it (what we call "Communities" today). While the Game hands out chocolate and cheese rewards for the Hamsters depending on their speed.
So no, sorry, I am not a machine nor a hamster, I have better things to do than run on a wheel all day for a chance to get a piece of cheese from the game, it has no appeal to me there is no stimulation of the senses, aesthetic pleasure or feeling of being alive playing in such a game...this things can only come within an aestehically pleasing environment where I as a player can mae my own choices and mistakes, feel the rewards or consequences all while I am in constant interaction with all the other players around me which share that environment and whose choices can affect one another, it simply makes you feel alive.
Isn't that what entertainment is supposed to do anyways?
Sure. I like PvP and can be very competitive but also like other styles of play.
I find that games that focus on one aspect of game play I enoy more. When they try to make it all things to all people I generally don't like it.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.-- Herman Melville
If by no PvP you mean no players killing each other than yes I would play that. After all I am making one. Would be kinda weird if I didn't want to play it.
Played FFXI for 2 years and loved it..
so yes.. I would say yes.
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PvP can be fun. PvE can be fun. Don't need them to mix.
Originally posted by Loke666 Originally posted by ForumPvP theres pretty much allways some kind of PvP going on in MMOs ,it doesnt have to be about killing each other. for example killing quest monsters before other player,starting to mine just second before other player,doing business with auction house,filling team spot before someone else etc.its all about Player vs Player. and in many of these cases loser part loses much more than 5 second spawn time after getting killed.
agree,i would like to see that kind of game also but
first we need "perfect" flagging system,but theres no such thing out there yet.
i really would like to see that some developer starts to really develop one.
Considering I've never enjoyed PVP in MMORPG's -- GW2 might change that.... but aside from that, yeah I'd have no problem at all with it.
But I wouldn't play it BECAUSE it had no PVP. It's all up to the game, how fun/awesome it is in PVE.
BOYCOTTING EA / ORIGIN going forward.
If they made an open world, skill based MMO similar to say, Darkfall (maybe a bit less grindy) or Shadowbane, than nothing short of the internet exploding could keep me away from it.