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Originally posted by Sorrow The industry has spent a lot of money and done some intensive testing and they have learned : 1) modern gamers have zero attention span. 2) modern gamers are morons incapable of thinking thier way out of a wet paper sack. 3) modern gamers are lazy and never finish any game or task put in front of them. Therefore game developers reason : 1) make games that require no focus or concentration! 2) make games that require no intelligence or thought processes! 3) make games that are shallow, small, and uninspired! I mean to a degree I do agree with them, the US due to a failed public education system, as well as, this whole ME generations bullshit has now spawned two back to back generations of brainless idiotic lemmings, with a third generation of even dumber kids on the way. That being said he study that game developers are ignoring is that the average age of most gamers today is on the rise, in 2011 the average age of gamers is 41. That means most of us buying and playing these games are from an older generation of gamers. We are the last generation in the US not let down by public education. We are creative, we are focused, we are free thinkers with drive motivation and we are not only capable we are driven to think outside the box. Problem is the game developers are not making games for our generation, they are not making games for the people buying them. Instead they are making them for our kids, and our grandkids when that is not who is actually playng them. As a result most of us get very bored very easy with every game that comes along.
I can't believe I'm the first one to refute this.
This post is the most self/generation aggrandizing, us vs. them hogwash I've seen on this thread yet.
First off, marketers aren't stupid. They know who they are targetting, and it isn't kids (though some games do target kids). So stop thinking you're so much F***ing better than modern gamers when you are a modern gamer.
Second, although you see modern games as being dumbed down, they are just cleaner. When you look at old school games, they were difficult due to THE WRONG REASONS. EQ was difficult due to having to camp for 12 hours for a spawn? EQ was difficult due to randomness in the combat system? More thought is going into today's games than ever went into most of the MMOs of yesteryear, including those that were grand successes. It has to, they have to be both massively appealing and find a way to differentiate themselves (though they don't put nearly enough emphasis on the latter, IMO). Also, complexity by obtuse mechanics is not good.
Third, MMOs are not failing because of the school system. Of all the random things to blame... Also you don't give nearly enough credit to children, who arguably do not have creativity, focus, or "drive motivation" impacted by a struggling school system.
Depends on who you are, but in general, if you like more open worlds, less instance/railed, no daily grinds as 'end game', and crafting/harvesting that means something, ....In general yes, its over...
Has been for 5-6 years or so imo. I could go through a list of games that have fallen into these catagories, and have crafting systems as a token system to say they have it, but aren't worth even doing...Bland harvesting systems, quest rails that basically hold your hand through what they want you to do, small worlds with only 1-2 options of places to play for your level, and only 1-2 starting areas, where older games usually had starting areas and diversity for almost all races...
Now I say this in general, as some games do things better than others, but no one seems to be putting anything out that has quality in most of these areas...Its I can grind these dungeons/quests/scenarios on a 24hr timer, so now I log in today and I do my checklist...oh wow, what fun...Now I log out till I rinse/repeat tomorrow...
Some people like the limits/focus/polish, whatever you want to call it, some don't... Last MMO that I thought had quality alternative play, and variety was Vanguard, but it has a horrible launch and couldn't recover...If the game would of released in the shape it was 6 months or so after it was released, it probably would of been a different story imo.
It sure seems like it. Everything interesting about the RPG genre has been stripped out except combat being labeled as "time sinks". You hit max level in only a few weeks. Everyone gets great gear for basically showing up. PvP is meaningless unless you like repitive and predictable instanced battlegrounds that have no impact on the game world. Crafting has been reduced to side show making goods nobody wants. Exploration is almost non-existant except for a few indie games. Interacting with other players has been minimized so that everyone can solo.
All we have left is little combat gimmicks that are fun for a few hours but wear off quickly and pretty graphics which add zero to game play.
It's not suprising that cash shops are becoming popular. That way, they lure you in, take your money and move you along to the next game as quickly as possible.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.-- Herman Melville
Originally posted by dave6660 It sure seems like it. Everything interesting about the RPG genre has been stripped out except combat being labeled as "time sinks". You hit max level in only a few weeks. Everyone gets great gear for basically showing up. PvP is meaningless unless you like repitive and predictable instanced battlegrounds that have no impact on the game world. Crafting has been reduced to side show making goods nobody wants. Exploration is almost non-existant except for a few indie games. Interacting with other players has been minimized so that everyone can solo. All we have left is little combat gimmicks that are fun for a few hours but wear off quickly and pretty graphics which add zero to game play. It's not suprising that cash shops are becoming popular. That way, they lure you in, take your money and move you along to the next game as quickly as possible.
Doesn't GW2 answer some of that? At least claim to fix pvp, exploration, and fewer instances?
Taru-Gallante-Blood elf-Elysean-Kelari-Crime Fighting-Imperial Agent
i played swg until the day it was murdered off for TOR.
since then i have struggled to find one that can give me the same satisfaction.
DDO comes closest and vanguard may do the job when it goes f2p
but gw2 is the one i'm looking forward to that i have high hopes for. No shitty raids means pve doesnt become some pointless gear grind that is utterly pointless
Currently playing- SWG PreCU & GW 2Have tried WoW, AoC, & Vanguard, SWG:NGE, GW, LOTRO & SWTORBest MMO: SWGWorst MMO: SWTOR
Originally posted by Edeus Originally posted by dave6660 It sure seems like it. Everything interesting about the RPG genre has been stripped out except combat being labeled as "time sinks". You hit max level in only a few weeks. Everyone gets great gear for basically showing up. PvP is meaningless unless you like repitive and predictable instanced battlegrounds that have no impact on the game world. Crafting has been reduced to side show making goods nobody wants. Exploration is almost non-existant except for a few indie games. Interacting with other players has been minimized so that everyone can solo. All we have left is little combat gimmicks that are fun for a few hours but wear off quickly and pretty graphics which add zero to game play. It's not suprising that cash shops are becoming popular. That way, they lure you in, take your money and move you along to the next game as quickly as possible.
Time will tell. I don't buy into the hype. I want to see it for myself.
Originally posted by TangentPoint Originally posted by jacklo Who wants to start a game that's been going for 5 years or more, pay for all the expansions and never have a hope of being competitive?
I happily would. I know others who would as well. Certainly there are more I don't know who do and would.
Not everyone looks at a MMO that's been out a while and thinks "gee, I'll never be competitive with people who started years before me, so why bother?".
For myself, I think "Holy crap, look at how much stuff this game has to do. This game could keep me entertained for years, easily, if I can get into it". I find the idea of a single MMO keeping me entertained for years appealing. I'm excited to go through what all those people who came before me already did. At the least, I don't feel I should be given a faster or easier ride through it than they had, simply because I chose to start much later than they did.
I've never understood the attitude of people who rate a MMORPG by how quickly they can 'catch up to everyone else'. I play a game to enjoy and experience it for myself. I just can't grasp why someone would pick up a game with years worth of content, only to look beyond all that content and the potential fun they can have with it, because all they care about is being able to hang out with the high level people who've already done it all. Is it about playing the game for one's own entertainment, or merely about "being part of the cool crowd" as soon as possible?
I've tried to see it from that perspective. The conclusion I come to every time is that if my enjoyment of a game depended on how quickly I could get to the end of it, I probably wouldn't want to play it at all. Similarly, if the value of my experience came from "how far along I am compared to people who started 3 years before me" instead of "how far have I come and how much have I experienced in the 3 months since I started", I would have missed the point of playing in the first place. It's such a self-defeating attitude some people have.
It would depend on whether or not you have a group of friends joining you, or whether or not the game offers engaging solo content. It would also depend on a helpful community that you feel like you are a part of, since it IS a "massively multiplayer" game, and whether or not the game allows for you to participate in all aspects of the game from an early level, such as: Do you need a party to explore some instanced content? Are there zones and quests that require more than one person to complete?
What you're saying may apply for YOU, but it's all entirely situational depending on the game content.
I can only speak for myself but I'd say yes....I played EQ1 from 2000-05 and haven't subbed to any game for longer than 6 months since...The honest truth is there are just too many games out there and the majority are free......While I have played a couple of free games for longer than 6 months, it really doesn't count as I only play them for short periods of time...... I just don't think at this time that there is going to be a game out there that is soooo good that I'd be willing to play and pay for it for many years.
To much money to make off of sick people like us. MMO's and companies like EA are here to stay.
Yup, as stated in other posts here, there are too many choices.
Also community seems to have gone away. I understand guilds solve that for many. But for me it doesnt. My first MMO community, and the one I stuck with for 5 years was City of Heros, Virtue server. VU, FTW!!!!!!!
Recently I started to have the converstation with myself if I wasn't looking for the wrong thing in my quest for "a game to play". Although I feel I will always like to sit down and "game it up", I also feel it is time to exploit some other activities.
MMOs are a mega-consumer-good now, and as much as I am a money lovin capitalist, when goods/services become that large, they start to suck, in what seems to be all facets. Just look at the Wal+Mart shopping experiance: Sure that loot is easy to get and cheap, but the rest of the customers are all being dickish, the staff is unhelpfull, and that cheap shit is junk. THat doesn't mean I don't still go get my cheap junk, XD. I just realize it "Is what it is.".
Don't lament the days of not being able to log out for shear addiction's sake, remember them in golden light. On the other hand don't beat a dead horse.
I've been playing Runescape for over 7 years now.
THERE IS NO SHAME.
Originally posted by Nevulus Are the days of playing one MMO for many years over? Yes The days of dedication are over. Endgame in a MMO nowadays is to unsub and get on a forum, then bash the game you no longer play because it did not live up to the hype you yourself created for it.
I agree. I never knew why they would get upset because they no longer found a game fun. Your saying they are convincing themselves that any one game would be that good? Thats rediculous.
MMOs to me are becoming like my consoles. Many titles to choose from so you play a few until you find one that hooks you. Complete the content then move on, unless the developer is skilled enough to add content at that point. Exactly like console DLC. Though I cant go back to console since Ive went MMO.
MMOs have changed (for the better) since those early days. I dont see them coming back because games are not being developed with a hook that make you want to come back. They took out the sandbox elements and focused on the theme park.
No one wants to play a theme park for seven years.
Originally posted by donpopukiAre the days of playing one MMO for many years over?
I'm still playing WoW, and it's been on and off since a bit before launch in 2004. Now, if you mean new games after WoW, then yes, it seems so.
Originally posted by donpopuki Are the days of playing one MMO for many years over?
They're gone until another awesome MMO comes out. It'll happen. Before WoW came out(don't freak, I'm not really calling WoW an awesome MMO), I never thought there could be something like WoW. I was following WoW pre-beta. I thought it would be cool to play an mmo in the Warcraft universe, but I thought it was going to suck because it seemed it would be a themepark grind with holy trinity combat. (I didn't use those terms back then lol.) I still think it sucks.... My point is... It swept the oscars. It became the #1 MMO for something I never thought was possible: it captured a new MMO audience with its accessibility, marketing, and blizzardy. I always thought the next BIG ONE would be new and different. All along success was possible by refining the basic model.
So before WoW, everything was an EQ clone. WoW's success reinforces the pre-established strategy of cloning 90% of the previous MMO. The industry isn't stupid. I think they thought the massive wave of new MMORPG players would make WoW-clones guaranteed monster hits. But it didn't. Even the people who got started w/WoW don't like them enough to play as much as they played WoW.
That brings us to what? Like 2010. WHAT?? DARKFALL ACTUALLY CAME OUT? That's what I'm leading this paragraph with because I feel like a lot of weirder MMOs are out by 2010 or are getting more play as people try new things. Which is cool because it means these games can survive now. Even if they don't have millions of subscribers. But still none of the nichey games are hitting it big or anything. Then Rift comes out, and now it seems like it was just another hype monster.... So I feel that the industry is just as lost as it was post-EQ pre-WoW. Except more games can survive now so there is a lot to try out. (hence mmo-hopping) But still the AAA are copying each other 90%. So, you only play for that 10% new stuff, and you probably only put in 10% of the time you spent with the last MMO...... Me.., they are exponentially losing me. It's like when I try a new MMO, I put in like 10% of 10% of 10% of 10% of 10%..... and so on.
Are the days of playing one MMO for 7 years gone? No. Especially if you really enjoy any of the nichey games that are out right now. (But I guess a lot of people aren't fully satisfied with their fav niche-mmo...?... ... Isn't that awfully interesting???) I say the next super big one is out there now. It's waiting for you. It's hidden amongst the hype-monsters.
BUT! I guess that doesn't really answer your question. Because maybe the next really popular MMO will only be REALLY popular for like 1 or 2 years for some reason. Maybe because you're right? I don't think you are. I think we're just stuck. I think we were stuck before, we were climbing out, and then WoW & EQ2 kicked us in the face, and we fell back in... What's coming out now, TERA, GW2, Secret World, D3/PoE, Archlord X, Dominus, and :P glitch? We'll see...
You realize a majority of those making this crap we see today and the teachers of those generations are of your generation right?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Originally posted by Gajari I'm still playing WoW, and it's been on and off since a bit before launch in 2004. Now, if you mean new games after WoW, then yes, it seems so.
Me too although i started WOW much later than 2004 (right after BC).
However, what is the big deal? So we don't play a single game for years .. what is the problem? A single player game is lucky if it lasts 4 weeks.
I don't see a compelling apriori reason why game needs to last many years. It is not like we have a shortage of them. There are way more games than we have time to play.
The bigger question is that now that Wall Street and big corporations have become aware of video games, and are actively smothering small companies along with creativity, adequate development time, and craft, in pursuit of a fast profit, will there ever bee a game you would care to play for years? This morning I saw the announcement of the release of the new Halo game in November pop up on the CBS Financial and Stock news. Along with pork bellies futures and Goldman Sachs reports.
Ballerinas are always on their toes. Why don't they just get taller ballerinas?
Originally posted by nariusseldon Originally posted by Gajari I'm still playing WoW, and it's been on and off since a bit before launch in 2004. Now, if you mean new games after WoW, then yes, it seems so.
Some of us like games where there is a lot to learn, do and see which cannot be accomplished in 4 weeks. In a game like Eve Online, after 4 weeks I can safely say that player is still wet behind the ears.
I play different genres for different reasons. Arcade games are good for quick fun action. I play RPG's for a longer term experience.
The right game then yes subbed to SWG for 9 years and if another game came along and captured me as it did then do doubt I'd have 9 years there.
MMO's COULD be made to keep people for many years i.e EVE online
However companies are choosing to just shoot out clone after clone after clone after clone until the market is saturated with 100's of shallow boring games.
Playing: PO, EVEWaiting for: WoD Favourite MMOs: VG, EVE, FE and DDOAny person who expresses rage and loathing for an MMO is preposterous. He or she is like a person who has put on full armor and attacked a hot fudge sundae.
Are those days over?
simply too much choice on the market these days.
We entered the Warcraft years for gaming, and the new generation of gamers expect games to be on easy mode, if its too hard, they post themselves on youtube an look like a fool infront of millions...gaming needs to go back to the hardcore years, thats when they will be successful again.