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Guildwars 2 PVE and PVP Problem

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  • DKLondDKLond AlbertslundPosts: 579Member Uncommon

    Won't happen before level 3 or 4?

    Well, that's a looooooong time isn't it.

    You unlock weapon skills VERY fast - and each weapon can be fully unlocked in less than an hour.

  • aesperusaesperus Hamshire, NVPosts: 5,128Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by DKLond

    I can't confirm or deny that I actually played it for several hours on more than one occasion.

    For some reason, you're calling me a troll or an idiot - and you seem to assume that I don't know what I'm talking about, and you seem to think you're the only person here who might have played it.

    For one, you can say whether or not you've played the game (it's not a breach of NDA). Mentioning if you are part of a beta with a currently running NDA is. So yes, you could easily confirm it if you wanted to.

    In response to why I find you're statements fishy, you talk about how the rewards don't matter, and how that's supposed to magically make the game more interesting.

    Well, no and no. The rewards do matter, they are just balanced. This has been explained multiple times even in this same thread. Gear does scale with lvl, and gets more varied as well. You just don't have an endgame gear set with stats far & above everything else, or a magic 'pvp stat' which makes you better in pvp specifically.

    Furthermore, this idea that the 'loot' is the purpose of the content completely misses the entire point to this game. The loot is there, and it to some extent determines how you play (or rather, you choose which loot you want to suit your own playstyle). The story, exists in 2 parts. 1) personal, this revolves entirely around you, and while you are rewarded with better loot, the focus is on expanding your story & personal instance. Again, it's about customization, and is not unlike the class quests in TOR, with the exception that you actually get to see the results of your actions. Then there is 2) the Dynamic events, which you could look at like the 'world story'. Don't wanna help that outpost? Fine, don't help it. However, later down the road you may find that it's completely unavailable to you, and you not only lose a waypoint, but also have to clear that outpost of enemies to start getting it back to the way it was.

    This also doesn't even touch on the whole 'lateral progression' concept, in which this game is built on. Having to unlock that one awesome skill is a pretty significant advantage as well. Unlike with most other games, where you can just lvl up to the appropriate lvl; which is now extremely easy to do in many MMOs.

  • evilastroevilastro EdinburghPosts: 4,270Member

    Originally posted by FateFatality

    SO HERE I GO

    i was talking in another thread about Guildwars 2 PVE and PVP

    So this is my problem i like guildwars 2 it looks awsome but as more info goes by and closer we are to realse of guildwars 2 i started to think hard about  following list below

    END GAME

    PVP

    PVE

    DYNAMIC EVENTS

    End Game:

    So we have not got lot of info what Guildwars 2 End game will be like so i can only say from what anet has told us so far and info we have been given

    it seems like guildwars 2 endgame consist of PVP and PVE content but seems like End game content will be more PVP then PVE

    i will get to reason why i think this furthure down

    There is plenty to do in both PvE and PvP, your problem as you discuss below is that you don't see the point in doing PvE without a carrot on a stick.

    This leads me to believe that you don't actually enjoy PvE at all, and only do it as some sort of e-peen contest?

    PVP:

    PVP is player vs player we all know this so we have WvW PVP and 5v5 PvP and i bet guildwars 2 PVP will be really good no doubt about it due to fact guildwars 2 is not gear dependent so all end game gear will be same as everyone elses with different visuals and if balance of classes is done right then PVP should be top notch

    Sure

    PVE:

    now this is were i have my major problem as i said about PVP.

    so we all know gear is cosmetic so is doing dungeons worth hassle if you can do PVP? if you can gain exp and gear and money from PVP?

    So that you can play whatever you prefer? Rather than grinding some PvE encounter you don't enjoy just to be competitive in PvP, you can just jump straight into PvP and have fun. GW2 is B2P. They dont need to give you a false sense of progression in the form of a gear treadmill.

    This is my issue and now dynamic events so reason why dynamic events is make questing inovative and it does it looks reallllyyyy gooooodd but PROBLEM!!!! why would i bother? as mention all items are cosmetic and have very little benifits to me so theres no rewards to do it justice.... also have this feeling that there will be no incenstive to do more then whats needed in guildwars 2

    Why would you bother? Because you enjoy PvE and having fun with friends in a dungeon? If you dont enjoy PvE, why should you be forced to play it just for some carrot on a stick?

    we have the sidekick feature in guildwars 2 so we can do any content with friends ect but again why would i go and do any of content guildwas 2 has to offer if im not going benfit even exp/leveling has no incenstive due to this feature so all i am left with is to do pvp

    Once again, because you enjoy doing it? Its not like other games where you are forced to do things you dont enjoy just for that extra reward. In EQ2 you can mentor down to lower level players, theres no gear incentive as a higher level player to do so, yeah you can get some extra AA, but once you are capped its pointless, unless you just want to help your friends - same as GW2. GW2 at least keeps giving you karma for helping lower level friends, which can be used for higher level karma gear.

    Now you have story mode but we all know no matter what a single player RPG will have a better story then a MMO can offer

    Sure? But some people like their MMOs to have more story, it certainly doesnt hurt you that its there, as you can just skip the cutscenes.

    im just stuck on this issue and im not sure if im missing something i know games are supose be for fun but ideal of fun is be rewarded even single player games reward you for your time and fact everything is just cosmetic makes me feel like PVE will be pointless and no incenstive to do it

    If you dont enjoy grinding for appearance gear, there is no point. But I would argue that grinding appearance gear in GW2 remains just as fun as grinding for gear in another game. Having a bit of gear with a 3% drop chance that gives 1% more cast speed doesnt really make the actual content more fun does it? If you think it does then I am really concerned about the future of MMOs. 

    If you didnt enjoy the actual grinding aspect, then why are you complaining? Its confusing. Clearly you prefer just to PvP, GW2 lets you do that without stupid time sinks blocking you from being competitive.

     

  • aesperusaesperus Hamshire, NVPosts: 5,128Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by DKLond

    Won't happen before level 3 or 4?

    Well, that's a looooooong time isn't it.

    You unlock weapon skills VERY fast - and each weapon can be fully unlocked in less than an hour.

    Not necessarily, but it can be.

    Furthermore, it's the first 3 weapon skills that unlock VERY fast. The last two take significantly longer. Can be done in less than an hour if you're killing lots of stuff constantly / grinding mobs. However, there is more to do than just that.

  • DKLondDKLond AlbertslundPosts: 579Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by aesperus

    Originally posted by DKLond

    I can't confirm or deny that I actually played it for several hours on more than one occasion.

    For some reason, you're calling me a troll or an idiot - and you seem to assume that I don't know what I'm talking about, and you seem to think you're the only person here who might have played it.

    For one, you can say whether or not you've played the game (it's not a breach of NDA). Mentioning if you are part of a beta with a currently running NDA is. So yes, you could easily confirm it if you wanted to.

    In response to why I find you're statements fishy, you talk about how the rewards don't matter, and how that's supposed to magically make the game more interesting.

    Well, no and no. The rewards do matter, they are just balanced. This has been explained multiple times even in this same thread. Gear does scale with lvl, and gets more varied as well. You just don't have an endgame gear set with stats far & above everything else, or a magic 'pvp stat' which makes you better in pvp specifically.

    Furthermore, this idea that the 'loot' is the purpose of the content completely misses the entire point to this game. The loot is there, and it to some extent determines how you play (or rather, you choose which loot you want to suit your own playstyle). The story, exists in 2 parts. 1) personal, this revolves entirely around you, and while you are rewarded with better loot, the focus is on expanding your story & personal instance. Again, it's about customization, and is not unlike the class quests in TOR, with the exception that you actually get to see the results of your actions. Then there is 2) the Dynamic events, which you could look at like the 'world story'. Don't wanna help that outpost? Fine, don't help it. However, later down the road you may find that it's completely unavailable to you, and you not only lose a waypoint, but also have to clear that outpost of enemies to start getting it back to the way it was.

    This also doesn't even touch on the whole 'lateral progression' concept, in which this game is built on. Having to unlock that one awesome skill is a pretty significant advantage as well. Unlike with most other games, where you can just lvl up to the appropriate lvl; which is now extremely easy to do in many MMOs.

    Yes, confirming to be in the beta (having played it means being in the beta) under NDA is considered a breach. So, if I confirmed having played it - I would be in breach. If you can't figure out the truth from that, there's little I can do.

    I'm not saying rewards don't matter - I'm saying they're less significant than is traditional. This is 100% factual straight from the developers - and it's part of the intended design.

    I've specifically said that loot IS NOT the point of the game. That was, well, MY POINT. They've removed loot as the primary focus as an intended design goal. I'm making it very plain that I don't see how that will make the content "more fun" or better in any way whatsoever.

    Now, it's very true that there's a personal story. I forgot to mention that. It will depend on your personal preference, but from what I've seen of the story - it's amateur hour with juvenile dialogue/writing. That's not a fact, that's just my opinion.

    I don't like SWtOR (at all) - but I have to say the story/dialogue aspect in that game is MUCH better than GW2. I'd almost prefer the personal story not to be there.

    Yes, the dynamic events are actually very good. I find that they make the leveling process more pleasant and I like that it's not forced upon you. Problem is, though, that the content is recycled in the events - and once you've seen the content, there's no more content. That's the same issue with EVERY MMO in existence, and it will be exactly the same problem in GW2.

    What "traditional themeparks" do, is they EXTEND content artificially by introducing the vertical gear progression. Now, I fully agree with ArenaNET that that's a pretty hollow and weak way of extending the lifetime of the game.

    However, if you TAKE AWAY the vertical loot progression - you have to replace it with something more meaningful, if you're going to improve or solve the problem of limited content. GW2 DOES NOT replace it with anything I consider meaningful.

    That's because I don't like their WvW PvP at all, and I don't see any point in fighting over something that resets every 2 weeks. It's artificial and hollow to me.

    If YOU like WvW and YOU like fighting in the same instance for a long time, for "prestige" and minor gear upgrades - then that's great. Lots of people like that sort of thing - like in Battlefield 3 and similar games.

    Personally, I need something more meaningful with an actual impact on the actual world of the game.

    The "lateral" progression is part of the problem, as well. Because you will see the VAST majority of what your character can do within the first 20-30 hours. Weapon skills are unlocked VERY quickly - and your utility skills can be unlocked as soon as you get the skill points required and you're at the appropriate level (IIRC - at level 30 - you can unlock everything).

    This means you have nothing significant to look forward to in terms of character progression around level 30. Well, apart from passive boosts and changes from Traits.

    Also, the combat flow in PvE is basically spamming the same 2-3 skills OVER AND OVER - with the occasional utility skill. Weapon switching has a signficant cooldown - so you won't be switching them DURING combat. It's really very boring in my opinion.

    It looks great and it feels great - but there's just not enough variety.

    We don't have to agree, of course, but that's my opinion.

  • GroovyFlowerGroovyFlower RdamPosts: 1,245Member

    Originally posted by FateFatality

    SO HERE I GO

    i was talking in another thread about Guildwars 2 PVE and PVP

    So this is my problem i like guildwars 2 it looks awsome but as more info goes by and closer we are to realse of guildwars 2 i started to think hard about  following list below

    END GAME

    PVP

    PVE

    DYNAMIC EVENTS

    End Game:

    So we have not got lot of info what Guildwars 2 End game will be like so i can only say from what anet has told us so far and info we have been given

    it seems like guildwars 2 endgame consist of PVP and PVE content but seems like End game content will be more PVP then PVE

    i will get to reason why i think this furthure down

    PVP:

    PVP is player vs player we all know this so we have WvW PVP and 5v5 PvP and i bet guildwars 2 PVP will be really good no doubt about it due to fact guildwars 2 is not gear dependent so all end game gear will be same as everyone elses with different visuals and if balance of classes is done right then PVP should be top notch

    PVE:

    now this is were i have my major problem as i said about PVP.

    so we all know gear is cosmetic so is doing dungeons worth hassle if you can do PVP? if you can gain exp and gear and money from PVP?

    This is my issue and now dynamic events so reason why dynamic events is make questing inovative and it does it looks reallllyyyy gooooodd but PROBLEM!!!! why would i bother? as mention all items are cosmetic and have very little benifits to me so theres no rewards to do it justice.... also have this feeling that there will be no incenstive to do more then whats needed in guildwars 2

    we have the sidekick feature in guildwars 2 so we can do any content with friends ect but again why would i go and do any of content guildwas 2 has to offer if im not going benfit even exp/leveling has no incenstive due to this feature so all i am left with is to do pvp

    Now you have story mode but we all know no matter what a single player RPG will have a better story then a MMO can offer

    im just stuck on this issue and im not sure if im missing something i know games are supose be for fun but ideal of fun is be rewarded even single player games reward you for your time and fact everything is just cosmetic makes me feel like PVE will be pointless and no incenstive to do it

     

    Again lol... topic about endgame its getting tiresome, are you guys not getting tired keep this subject digging up?

    B2P thats all for 50 bucks you can play untill lvl80 do PVE and PvP no pressure on subcription every month you can take as long as you want for 50 BUCKS only yeh!!!

    So who give (a brown waste product) about endgame you prolly get fun for few hundred hours before even reaching lvl80 for 50 BUCKS so what are you blabbering about endgame be happy you get so much for you 50BUCKS.

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member

    Originally posted by DKLond

    It looks great and it feels great - but there's just not enough variety.

    Effectively, the same song heard for many months after the opening of GW1, and leading to the same argument.

    Get ready to complain about itemization, a lot, because you're moving from one of the most heavily itemized games ever designed to a different idea.

    We expect players from WoW to complain, and beg Anet to make another WoW.  That has been their response upon arrival in an Anet product.  Thus far, Anet has declined making WoW again (to their credit).  Many other companies have succumbed to this temptation, and pretty much without exception created a string of failures.

    Not such a bad thing, a little variety in game design.

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • GroovyFlowerGroovyFlower RdamPosts: 1,245Member

    Originally posted by Cursedsei

    Gear isn't entirely cosmetic, unsure where you got that idea in your head from, but it wasn't entirely cosmetic in the first game either. First GW gave an increase in armor as the obvious example between its initial sets and the max sets, yet the biggest difference was that end sets of weapons and armor would allow you to further customize it with insignias and inscriptions.

    The same will more than likely be said with GW2. The statistics on the gear are going to have some say in power, but its more about finding the style you prefer and fine-tuning the statistics of your gear to suit your playstyle. I mean sure a Necromancer in GW1 could go with just his basic armor, but a Necromancer who has invested in some +1 skill insignias will be capable of slightly more damage/etc than him. And do note I said "slightly".

     

    End game wise, Arena.Net has stated it in the past it considers the "end game" to start right near the beginning. Levels scale down to fit the area you are in, same with the dungeons that exist in the game. This also isn't some Pay-to-play title that forces developers to string you along a boring gear-grind treadmill as a way of keeping you subscribed. They are hoping people buy the box, play the game and enjoy it enough that they don't mind paying a little later on for costume pieces or the like, or expansions when they are released.

    So you'll have

    1) Dynamic Events

    2) Explorable(and world also) Dungeons (which have so far been shown to be rather challenging to go through)

    3) PvP through either the lobby-styled maps or the 2-week persistent WvWvW battles.

     

     

    Also, I'm going to have to disagree quite heavily on "single player rpgs will always have better stories". That isn't a fact, its an opinion, and one I don't share. I can list off several Single Player RPGs whose stories are so cliche-ridden and dull that even Farmville would sound more intrigueing.

    Still some solo RPG have alot better storys then any mmo to date, but not all offcorse i agree about that hehe.

    Guild Wars 2 will be awesome for many things and that for only around 60 euro's i think thats awesome compare to other games.

    Bang for buck GW2 100% AWESOME

    Bang for buck WoW 60% MEDIOCRE at best.

  • DKLondDKLond AlbertslundPosts: 579Member Uncommon

    I think the B2P model is great.

    But the problem with GW2 is that I'm not going to want to invest hundreds of hours in a game without a meaningful goal. It's the same reason I've stopped playing themeparks altogether, and GW2 is no different (except it doesn't even have the loot/power carrot).

    I don't care if it's free or expensive. My time is ultimately what matters to me, and I need a good reason to sink hundreds of hours into a game.

    Maybe ArcheAge? Certainly has the potential.

  • aesperusaesperus Hamshire, NVPosts: 5,128Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by DKLond



    However, if you TAKE AWAY the vertical loot progression - you have to replace it with something more meaningful, if you're going to improve or solve the problem of limited content. GW2 DOES NOT replace it with anything I consider meaningful.

    This really begs the question. What do you feel is meaningful?

  • IPolygonIPolygon ViennaPosts: 707Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by DKLond

    I think the B2P model is great.

    But the problem with GW2 is that I'm not going to want to invest hundreds of hours in a game without a meaningful goal. It's the same reason I've stopped playing themeparks altogether, and GW2 is no different (except it doesn't even have the loot/power carrot).

    I don't care if it's free or expensive. My time is ultimately what matters to me, and I need a good reason to sink hundreds of hours into a game.

    Maybe ArcheAge? Certainly has the potential.

    Bye then. They won't change the design of GW2 to accommodate all players.

  • VoiidiinVoiidiin Barrow, AKPosts: 817Member

    Hmmm another gear is go(o)d thread.

    I just don't see why all these players who want same as my last game in a game obviously trying to get away from that. 

    The game is not made to cater to those players who enjoy the WoW blueprint of gameplay. What is so hard to grasp about this idealogy ? I do not see posters here begging for more players to ditch WoW/clones to come play GW2, in fact i see the opposite generally, most of the time GW2 fans are telling those who want conformity to WoW/clones to just pass on the game.

    Anyhow, I wish ANet would just release the damned game, so tired of having to re-explain the simple concepts ANet has set out for GW2's progression.

    Lolipops !

  • aesperusaesperus Hamshire, NVPosts: 5,128Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Voiidiin

    Anyhow, I wish ANet would just release the damned game, so tired of having to re-explain the simple concepts ANet has set out for GW2's progression.

    I completely agree, though I do want them to 'get it right', so I don't mind waiting a little longer. However, the game has spoiled other MMOs for me, and I find it really hard playing anything else atm =/.

  • DraftbeerDraftbeer SzarvasPosts: 517Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by DKLond

    I think the B2P model is great.

    But the problem with GW2 is that I'm not going to want to invest hundreds of hours in a game without a meaningful goal. It's the same reason I've stopped playing themeparks altogether, and GW2 is no different (except it doesn't even have the loot/power carrot).

    I don't care if it's free or expensive. My time is ultimately what matters to me, and I need a good reason to sink hundreds of hours into a game.

    Maybe ArcheAge? Certainly has the potential.

    Well - I don't need any 'meaningful reason' to play a VIDEO GAME. Maybe it's just me.

  • nookey91nookey91 enschedePosts: 42Member

    for the pvp section, guild wars has 3 pvp modes

    WvWvW  

    Structured pvp wich is 5v5 only

    and ( free)structured pvp there is no rating with this, but with this mode you can go up to 10 vs 10 

  • DKLondDKLond AlbertslundPosts: 579Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by aesperus

    Originally posted by DKLond



    However, if you TAKE AWAY the vertical loot progression - you have to replace it with something more meaningful, if you're going to improve or solve the problem of limited content. GW2 DOES NOT replace it with anything I consider meaningful.

    This really begs the question. What do you feel is meaningful?

     First of all, it's important to establish that "meaningful" is different to each os us.

    There's nothing "objectively" meaningful - even in real life. Some people think having children is meaningful, others think getting rich is meaningful and so on.

    Games, naturally, are partially meaningless regardless of what you do in them - because they're not "real" and they mean almost nothing in terms of real life.

    With that said, I think some games DO have meaning - and the MMO genre in particular - has the potential to have meaningful gameplay, because they represent shared experiences. For some reason, I think sharing an experience makes it have more meaning.

    To me, it would be about giving players as much freedom and control as possible. Let them create content for themselves, and let them set their own goals. Give them land to fight over and let them make their own rules for the land they control. Let them craft everything, and let crafting be about personal skill and personal style. Make it so that all crafters can put their own ideas into play, and profit from being unique and skilled. Make it so that the individual can achieve as much as the group - only in different ways. Make loot be significant, but EXTREMELY rare, unique and hard to attain. Do NOT make loot something trivial or "grindy" that everyone must go through to climb the ranks. Make finding a magical weapon a rare event, and something you have to work REALLY hard for. But not "work" as in grind your way through endless content. No, work as in becoming EXTREMELY good at the game, be it combat or cerebral challenges. Give the players a horizon - and ensure that only the most skilled or decidated players can travel to the far end.

    Stuff like that.

    Games like EVE Online and Darkfall are closer to my idea of "meaningful" in terms of core design - but they both have significant flaws.

    Ultimately, I've yet to see an MMO with enough meaning and with enough entertainment to serve as underpinning to make me invest in it.

    The only game on the horizon that seems to go for this in a smart way, and in a way that might just make it more successful than the traditional sandbox is ArcheAge.

    Check it out, and you'll see something akin to my idea of meaningful.

    As for GW2 - please understand that I'm not "bashing it". I think it will be a very successful title - and I think a lot of players will be enjoying it. I'm simply saying how, from my point of view, I don't see it being all that great - and that you have to be a different kind of player (than I am) to enjoy it.

    We're on a public forum - which is about the exchange of opinion. I guess you could say I'm hoping someone will make me "see the light" - so I can add GW2 as a game to look forward to. I was originally quite taken in be the hype and the way ANET presented their design. So, it's been really disappointing to see what the game is actually like.

     

  • VesaviusVesavius BristolPosts: 7,645Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Kakkzooka

    I heard about this game "Life," but I'm not sure if I'll like it because the end-game is nothing but laying in a box and rotting.

    I mean . . . what's the point?

     

    I have played that game! And I can confirm from it, people will happily grind purely for cosmetic rewards...

  • FateFatalityFateFatality AnalholePosts: 85Member

    Originally posted by DKLond

    Originally posted by aesperus


    Originally posted by DKLond





    However, if you TAKE AWAY the vertical loot progression - you have to replace it with something more meaningful, if you're going to improve or solve the problem of limited content. GW2 DOES NOT replace it with anything I consider meaningful.

    This really begs the question. What do you feel is meaningful?

     First of all, it's important to establish that "meaningful" is different to each os us.

    There's nothing "objectively" meaningful - even in real life. Some people think having children is meaningful, others think getting rich is meaningful and so on.

    Games, naturally, are partially meaningless regardless of what you do in them - because they're not "real" and they mean almost nothing in terms of real life.

    With that said, I think some games DO have meaning - and the MMO genre in particular - has the potential to have meaningful gameplay, because they represent shared experiences. For some reason, I think sharing an experience makes it have more meaning.

    To me, it would be about giving players as much freedom and control as possible. Let them create content for themselves, and let them set their own goals. Give them land to fight over and let them make their own rules for the land they control. Let them craft everything, and let crafting be about personal skill and personal style. Make it so that all crafters can put their own ideas into play, and profit from being unique and skilled. Make it so that the individual can achieve as much as the group - only in different ways. Make loot be significant, but EXTREMELY rare, unique and hard to attain. Do NOT make loot something trivial or "grindy" that everyone must go through to climb the ranks. Make finding a magical weapon a rare event, and something you have to work REALLY hard for. But not "work" as in grind your way through endless content. No, work as in becoming EXTREMELY good at the game, be it combat or cerebral challenges. Give the players a horizon - and ensure that only the most skilled or decidated players can travel to the far end.

    Stuff like that.

    Games like EVE Online and Darkfall are closer to my idea of "meaningful" in terms of core design - but they both have significant flaws.

    Ultimately, I've yet to see an MMO with enough meaning and with enough entertainment to serve as underpinning to make me invest in it.

    The only game on the horizon that seems to go for this in a smart way, and in a way that might just make it more successful than the traditional sandbox is ArcheAge.

    Check it out, and you'll see something akin to my idea of meaningful.

    As for GW2 - please understand that I'm not "bashing it". I think it will be a very successful title - and I think a lot of players will be enjoying it. I'm simply saying how, from my point of view, I don't see it being all that great - and that you have to be a different kind of player (than I am) to enjoy it.

    We're on a public forum - which is about the exchange of opinion. I guess you could say I'm hoping someone will make me "see the light" - so I can add GW2 as a game to look forward to. I was originally quite taken in be the hype and the way ANET presented their design. So, it's been really disappointing to see what the game is actually like.

     

    well im not dissapointed in the game my self but i just still feel Gw2 PVE will suck to be honest lake of feeling of progress

  • aesperusaesperus Hamshire, NVPosts: 5,128Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by DKLond

    To me, it would be about giving players as much freedom and control as possible. Let them create content for themselves, and let them set their own goals. Give them land to fight over and let them make their own rules for the land they control. Let them craft everything, and let crafting be about personal skill and personal style. Make it so that all crafters can put their own ideas into play, and profit from being unique and skilled. Make it so that the individual can achieve as much as the group - only in different ways. Make loot be significant, but EXTREMELY rare, unique and hard to attain. Do NOT make loot something trivial or "grindy" that everyone must go through to climb the ranks. Make finding a magical weapon a rare event, and something you have to work REALLY hard for. But not "work" as in grind your way through endless content. No, work as in becoming EXTREMELY good at the game, be it combat or cerebral challenges. Give the players a horizon - and ensure that only the most skilled or decidated players can travel to the far end.

    The entire post could've been shortened to this one paragraph.

    I can't say that I'm surprised, it did sound like you wanted a sandbox game. (Which this game was never meant to be). I'm sorry if you got the wrong impression. There is Archeage on the horizon though. You'd probably get more enjoyment over there.

  • wowfan1996wowfan1996 NonePosts: 719Member


    Originally posted by FateFatality
    Dynamic events is new twist but this feature alone is not enough to keep anyone playing long term its about concerns of longtivity and other Content PVP and PVE issues that need more insight
    Don't speak for everyone, please. I played WAR exclusively for PvP and I was more than willing to pay a monthly fee for that. And I'd still be playing it today if Mythic didn't completely ruin it in 1.4. If GW2 will have at least a pale semblance of class balance, I'll buy it and I'll play it forever even if it won't have any PvE at all.
     
    I just don't understand why all the people who love gear treadmills so much don't go and play some MMO with gear progression. There's an excellent choice of those right now. No need to wait.  
     
     

    MMORPG genre is dead. Long live MMOCS (Massively Multiplayer Online Cash Shop).

  • cesmode8cesmode8 Posts: 318Member Uncommon

    On a serious note, here is my opinion about "endgame" and what there is to do in GW2. 

    Let''s "make believe you gaiz" that it takes 1.5-2 months to reach max level.  This would be almost typical of most MMOs.  Now what? 



    1. Farm dungeons for specific dungeon sets.  Your gear stats do change, but it is a swap of 10 crit for 10 power or something of that nature.  So, optimize it the way you want.


    2. Farm Mats for crafting


    3. Continue exploring.  Chances are, you havent seen everything yet.  Also, different zones have changed since the last time you were there two months ago. Help lowbies out, because the sidekicking system kicks you down to their level.


    4. Get a group of friends, guildees, pugs and take down world bosses.


    5. PVP


    6. WvWvW


    7. Skill point challanges.

    So, after reaching max level in 1-2 months, the above should provide possibly another month or two of enjoyment.  But you are now getting bored.  So you have two options:



    1. Stop playing until a content patch is released(which I wouldassume would be more frequent than most games.  Probably on par with Trion/rift).


    2. Roll an alt.  This would allow you to experience the game and STORY from a whole new light.


    The above two options could last you another few months until a content patch IS released.  In which case the cycle repeats.


     


    Things to note:


    1. All MMOs have dungeons


    2. All MMOs have farming/professions


    3. SOME MMOs encourage exploration, some game designs make it very difficult.  Content becomes old, outdated, very stale when you revisit them in ANY other game except GW2.


    4. Other games have Raids.  Not many other games have world bosses.  (Honestly, WoW doesnt have them anymore, although I hear they are coming back.  I am not even sure Rift does (not including invasions/rifts/raidrifts))


    5. All MMOs have PVP


    6. Not all games have WvWvW. 


    7. Not every game has Skill Point challanges.  The clost could be datacron hunting in SWTOR.


    So as you see, the game is not all that different at end game than your run of the mill WoW, Rift, SWTOR, etc.  With the exception of instanced raiding, the game is the same at end game.  Only, GW2 will have WvWvW, content in any zone/dungeon that is never outdated, and skill point challanges.


     


    Feast on this.


     

  • DKLondDKLond AlbertslundPosts: 579Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by aesperus

    Originally posted by DKLond

    To me, it would be about giving players as much freedom and control as possible. Let them create content for themselves, and let them set their own goals. Give them land to fight over and let them make their own rules for the land they control. Let them craft everything, and let crafting be about personal skill and personal style. Make it so that all crafters can put their own ideas into play, and profit from being unique and skilled. Make it so that the individual can achieve as much as the group - only in different ways. Make loot be significant, but EXTREMELY rare, unique and hard to attain. Do NOT make loot something trivial or "grindy" that everyone must go through to climb the ranks. Make finding a magical weapon a rare event, and something you have to work REALLY hard for. But not "work" as in grind your way through endless content. No, work as in becoming EXTREMELY good at the game, be it combat or cerebral challenges. Give the players a horizon - and ensure that only the most skilled or decidated players can travel to the far end.

    The entire post could've been shortened to this one paragraph.

    I can't say that I'm surprised, it did sound like you wanted a sandbox game. (Which this game was never meant to be). I'm sorry if you got the wrong impression. There is Archeage on the horizon though. You'd probably get more enjoyment over there.

     Actually, I wanted to say more in my post - which is why it was longer. I don't speak on a public forum to satisfy the demands of individuals. I just speak to understand and be understood - if possible.

    I don't necessarily want a sandbox game. I play all kinds of games. I just want a meaningful reason to invest so many hours into a single game - and my suggestion is just my own concept of introducing meaning. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one in the world with such a concept - and I was hoping GW2 would be an example of a concept I would consider meaningful. Their marketing campaign and videos seemed to suggest that they were "all about the player" and stuff like that, and I consider myself a player.

    But you're quite right that it's not meant to be for me - and that's ok. I'll be looking elsewhere. But I think it's totally valid to explain why - and speak openly about it.

  • wowfan1996wowfan1996 NonePosts: 719Member


    Originally posted by cesmode8
    All MMOs have PVP
    You forgot to mention that the quality of PvP in your typical gear grinder is so terribly low that a simple /facepalm just doesn't cut it. Rift is a good example of what I'm talking about. If you want to PvP in Rift game and you want to be anything but a total cannon fodder, you can't escape PvE grind. Because top tier PvE relics have so much better stats than top tier PvP gear that the lack of valor doesn't matter anymore. So if you want to be competitive, you have to raid. And you have to grind faction reps for enchants. Heck, even their damn "PvP" dailies are all about grinding mobs.
     

    MMORPG genre is dead. Long live MMOCS (Massively Multiplayer Online Cash Shop).

  • dageezadageeza london, KYPosts: 578Member

    Most of us know pretty much where most gear progression games end up and about when we will exhaust all or most available content so we do tradeskills and alts and whine about how bored we are as we slay often less equipped players in pvp as we build up more gold and or achievements while we wait for the new expansion so we can rinse n repeat and retool again because we know our gear is gonna suck in the new world..YAWN!

    This successful treadmill gaming system has been around for a very long time and its sole purpose has been to keep us paying to play by warping our minds with rulesets, timers and timesinks in order to assure we cant blow through the end game content to fast...

    For many years this was great fun but for many myself included it has gone somewhat stale because every game is now very much like every other game..

    GW2 is being made for players that want to take a break from or have had enough of the progressive treadmill and actually want to have fun again with plenty of gear and achievement challenges as prizes to show off and available to any that have the skills to take em...

    100v100v100 pvp oh my!

    Sign me up and let me in!

    Playing GW2..

  • dontadowdontadow Detroit, MIPosts: 1,044Member Common

    Originally posted by aesperus

    Originally posted by DKLond



    To me, it would be about giving players as much freedom and control as possible. Let them create content for themselves, and let them set their own goals. Give them land to fight over and let them make their own rules for the land they control. Let them craft everything, and let crafting be about personal skill and personal style. Make it so that all crafters can put their own ideas into play, and profit from being unique and skilled. Make it so that the individual can achieve as much as the group - only in different ways. Make loot be significant, but EXTREMELY rare, unique and hard to attain. Do NOT make loot something trivial or "grindy" that everyone must go through to climb the ranks. Make finding a magical weapon a rare event, and something you have to work REALLY hard for. But not "work" as in grind your way through endless content. No, work as in becoming EXTREMELY good at the game, be it combat or cerebral challenges. Give the players a horizon - and ensure that only the most skilled or decidated players can travel to the far end.

    The entire post could've been shortened to this one paragraph.

    I can't say that I'm surprised, it did sound like you wanted a sandbox game. (Which this game was never meant to be). I'm sorry if you got the wrong impression. There is Archeage on the horizon though. You'd probably get more enjoyment over there.

    This is a great idea, and sounds like archage, but this isn't an RPG.  It's a city building game.  I dont think this element belongs in a catagory of MMORPG.  RPGs are fairly specific, adventuring, fighting evil things, saving the land.  For me, building a house or a boat isn't exciting if i'm playing an RpG.

    Now, i play games like Evony and Stronghold.  What you're describing would be like those games (which they do not catagorize as rpgs) but  on a personal level.  

    I"m all for, if you are going to do something do it 100 percent. It's why i don't like crafting in games.  RPGs aren't the above described games. You can't get too in depth in it. So it simply becomes an alternate source to make money for those who don'twant to adventure. 

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