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Originally posted by vanderghast SWG was a flawed, badly designed mess of a game from day one thanks to a designer that thought star wars was about crafting and player housing littering planets rather than adventure and space battles etc. Had the game been some generic sci fi game it probably wouldn't have been so bad, but the fact that it carried the name star wars made it a mess and nothing like star wars. Not one bit of that game felt star wars. The engine was clunky and bad, the graphics weren't even good when it came out let alone by todays standards. Everything about the game was bugged, boring or just badly designed. It should have been put out of it's misery long long ago.
I suppose you're going to say TOR is more Star Warsy? The movies were only a small part of the Star Wars universe, so to say SWG was nothing about Star Wars is an obvious troll remark. JTL had plenty of space combat, more so then TOR and as for the crafting and player built cities. Sure, they don't define Star Wars, but the fact they were so well designed is reason enough to mention them.
The fact you think it was a huge waste of a game, has me wondering if any game has satisfied you. Cause in my 25+ years of computer gaming, I can honestly say there weren't many MMO's that actually had an entertainment value outside of combat. Just out of curiousity, what MMO have you played that you can honestly say was a better game then SWG overall? I can think of maybe 2 and my quote is a good idea of which 2 those might be.
While it didn't necessarily follow the canon of Star Wars, it was still a Star Warsy game. The difference between it and TOR was that SWG let you choose how you wanted to exist in the Star Wars universe - if you didn't want to be the hero and wanted to be the Watto or Uncle Owen of the Star Wars universe then those options were available to you however if you wanted to be the hero that you see in the movie, those options were available to you too. In SWTOR your characters story is pretty much predetermined when you choose your characters profession.
It was the fact that you could virtually live in the Star Wars universe that made it so appealing to many.
The game was due for a reboot, but the problem historically is that each new incarnation becomes more stripped down than the previous version. It's like we get better graphics (for the most part) but have to shed depth of play.
To be honest, if they would have remade the game as SWG2, they would have more than likely fucked it up. Things that sound good in meetings often turn out shitty in implementation, and I know they would have killed the damn thing anyway if they would have made a 2.
Look at the successor, it's about as bare-bones as you can get. Sony would have gotten rid of player housing and anything else that was particularly bothersome to them over the years. Because we buy shit like that, simplified.
Maybe another company will come in and take the best of what has been done. Maybe they will even figure out how to make the game deep without scaring off the mass audience that drives the money wheels.
Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011
It was the fact that you could virtually live in the Star Wars universe that made it so appealing to many.
No other Star Wars game has had that. SWTOR especially doesnt even come close to achieving it
Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFTPlaying: SkyrimFollowing: The RepopulationI want a Virtual World, not just a Game.ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)
There is the fact that you could play any role you want in swg. There is also the fact that if you play the "hero" which you play by default in swtor was done better in swg to some extend. What I am talking about here is the gear. In swg, you could equip whatever suited you best in the color you wanted and when the appearance tab came, there were virtually unlimited possibilities.
Now going to swtor... you equip yourself with either crafted gear or customizeable (orange) gear while you lvl up but only to be undergeared by special pvp / pve gear for the end game which btw looked as ugly as possible in most peoples eyes including mine. I expected to get a better jedi experience in swtor only to be disappointed. Bioware could (and should) have addressed this problem in their update 1.2 but mostly failed to do so.
I am beginning to doubt the quality of bioware as an mmo developer just like most of us unfortunately do with soe which yes, includes myself. The dev team soe had during the last year did get a 10 on the scale of 1-10 (10 being the best) no question but it did take a too long time for them to realize that.
The sad irony is, if they had simply modernized SWG they would have had a mega hit.
It is really sad that game developers are just incapable of taking the games we love and giving them a modern KISS( KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID)!
Instead they have to completely reinvision the game and create what they think the game should be rather than what the fans idolize.
The same thing happened with Everquest 2, and later Vanguard, they promised the fans a modernization of the game we loved, but when we got EQ2 and later Vanguard they were nothing like the original but instead totally new games with new designs new concepts and nothing familiar to the fans of the original.
Same thing happened with Star Wars, SWG had some of the most loyal fans of any mmo ever, 10 years after it's release, thousands of fans still sit around reminesing about the game, the community, and all they offered.
Why would any INTELLIGENT business not capitalize on a pre-exsisting fanbase of thousands when offering a new product, rather than as EA/Bioware chose and instead allienate those thousands of fans by basically slapping them in the face and then calling them names when they asked for things they loved in the original.
I mean on a business level the whole debacle has been the work of madmen from the start.
If you think for a minute that 10 years from now anyone will be sitting around reminesing about how great SWTOR was well don't put any money on it.
From what I can tell is that SWG got shut down because SOE wanted to take SWG F2P, but LA did not.
With SOE taking all their games F2P, and not one left P2P, I am thinking the reason SWG shut down is partly because of SOE. If they were not going F2P crazy, SWG may not have shut down either. Hence Smedleys statement saying SWG shut down mutually between SOE and LA
EQOA got shut down and I think that it was as could not go F2P, as the game is loaded from disc with a small patch / updates on memory card. A patch to make F2P would be too much for it.
Shutting down SWG is not LAs biggest failure (if SOE did not want to keep it going as P2P), but LA not resurrecting under themselves or letting EA take over (as F2P) from SOE is their biggest failure - I am hoping this is still a possibility, especially if SWTOR has less interest than SWG did, by the end of the year, or that EA/LA can see that at the rate of decline over these past few months that SWTOR is bombing harder than SWG did.
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Originally posted by ignore_me Look at the successor, it's about as bare-bones as you can get. Sony would have gotten rid of player housing and anything else that was particularly bothersome to them over the years. Because we buy shit like that, simplified.
I doubt it. Nearly all of SOE's other MMOs have player housing, and they are enhancing it, not cutting it back.
Originally posted by vanderghast SWG was a flawed, badly designed mess of a game from day one thanks to a designer that thought star wars was about crafting and player housing littering planets rather than adventure and space battles etc.
It may not have been very Star Warsy but the resource gathering, crafting and player housing built communities which is something all the fully voiced stories can't hope to create in SWTOR.
SWG and SWTOR are two very different games however and a topic for another discussions but to me an MMO is about playing with other people and interacting with them not playing alongside them.
As to whether shutting SWG was LAs biggest fault, I think that lies with the ill-fated and well documented CU/NGE problems. I do think that there was still some life in SWG beit premium or F2P. At the end half a dozen servers could have carried on for a long time as they had a core of established and committed gamers.
Originally posted by vanderghast SWG was a flawed, badly designed mess of a game from day one thanks to a designer that thought star wars was about crafting and player housing
The gathering resources, crafting and housing was why I loved SWG more than any other MMO that I have ever played.
Originally posted by bigsmiff Originally posted by grimal Healthy Population? Lol! You mean the one server that all the free transfers went to?
Do you even know what you are taking about? I had toons on several servers and I had no problem finding groups. And, I am talking about before the shutdown announcement. Please know what you are spouting off about before you comment. Starsider, Chilastra, Europe-Chimera were all doing good before the shutdown announcement. The servers weren't brimming over with people, but they weren't dead either.
Admittedly, I didnt play when the shutdown was announced but I think I did play sometime last year or the year prior. The only server with a population was Starsider. I rolled some toons there and got well above lvl 40 and couldn't for the life of me find any groups at all. The only population was max level, bots, or unfriendly. I went back a few months later and it was still the same. My original toons were from Chilastra and that server was dead as far as I could tell.
From my understanding, the servers only went high pop when Sony allowed that 45 or so day free gametime. So I am not sure what in the heck you are talking about...but I'll throw it right back at ya: Do you even know what you are talking about?
Originally posted by grimal Originally posted by bigsmiff Originally posted by grimal Healthy Population? Lol! You mean the one server that all the free transfers went to?
There were free server transfers before the shutdown announcement. The 3 servers that I mentioned had really nice population numbers and I know this since I had toons on all 3 of them that I played regularly. I should have asked you if you knew that instead of making the comment that I did...apologies.
Chilastra didn't really die until SOE announced the shutdown. Before that it had the most active PvP population across the servers, often beating Starsider which had superior numbers.
Originally posted by Obraik Originally posted by grimal Originally posted by bigsmiff Originally posted by grimal Healthy Population? Lol! You mean the one server that all the free transfers went to?
Admittedly chilastra has had slow months, but for the most part was extremely active
Originally posted by CasualMaker Originally posted by ignore_me Look at the successor, it's about as bare-bones as you can get. Sony would have gotten rid of player housing and anything else that was particularly bothersome to them over the years. Because we buy shit like that, simplified.
I mean for new titles. If EQNext has it I will be pleasantly surprised.
Their biggest failure occured long before shutdown.
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
Chilastra didn't really die until SOE announced the shutdown.
Exactly...I gave my account to my son when the announcement came. I told him to have fun with it and do whatever he wanted to with all of my goodies since they were gonna poof anyway.
Just because I want turn based combat does not mean I want to play Final Fantasy 1. It means I want a new game to come out with it.
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Originally posted by Zekiah Their biggest failure occured long before shutdown.
Exactly. That was back in November of 2005 when SOE implemented the WOW patch and pissed all over their loyal fans.To add insult to injury, you had SOE spokespeople that pretty much belittled the fans of their game for not liking what they did. When you treat your fans in such a crappy manner, you guarentee them of never returning no matter how many carrots you dangle in front of them. That's just Customer Service 101.
The shutdown last year was just anti-climatic. We all knew it was going to happen it was only a question of when. And I still haven't played an SOE game to this day and I likely never will.
Currently Playing: Star Wars The Old Republic
Originally posted by ktanner3
We all knew it was going to happen it was only a question of when. And I still haven't played an SOE game to this day and I likely never will.
No one knew that SWG was going to get shut down, not even SOE.
It certainly should not have gotten shut down last year, as no matter how low the population got it was still better than other active MMOs.
The game had 13 servers, most other MMOs only have about 5 or 6 servers or less. DCUO only has 4 servers total, and in June 2011 SWG had 4 FULL servers, with the rest medium/Light, and DCUO was still P2P, and none were FULL. Vanguard has only 2 servers, and even on the free 45 days both servers stayed at rock bottom. SOE were in discussion of dropping servers down again, and be no less than 4 by 2012, as stated here.
The next course of action would have been to take the game F2P. If after that it did not do well still then it would have been known it would get shut down.
SWG got shut down before its time, and all because LA did not want it to go F2P
Originally posted by ktanner3 Originally posted by Zekiah Their biggest failure occured long before shutdown.
Please get over the Pre-CU FTW or Pre-Patch 9 FTW or even Pre-NGE/Post CU FTW crap.
It was Old in 2008.
MMO History: 2528 days in SW:G
Originally posted by hipiap Oh FFS.... Please get over the Pre-CU FTW or Pre-Patch 9 FTW or even Pre-NGE/Post CU FTW crap. It was Old in 2008.
If you don't want to hear it, you're in the wrong place.
Originally posted by CasualMaker Originally posted by hipiap Oh FFS.... Please get over the Pre-CU FTW or Pre-Patch 9 FTW or even Pre-NGE/Post CU FTW crap. It was Old in 2008.
I happen to be in that "other" place as well..
Jedimonkeylizard is in all Star Wars MMO's forever.
Originally posted by hipiap Originally posted by ktanner3 Originally posted by Zekiah Their biggest failure occured long before shutdown.
Get over it? I did. I no longer give SOE anymore money. Judging by the state of their MMOs I'd say I'm not the only one.
Anyways, the title of the thread is "Was shutting down SWG LA's biggest failure yet?" That opens up other possible answers.
Have to agree that their biggest failure was changing a game basic combat mechanics not once but twice or at least allowing SOE too and expecting that they would draw huge crowds by dumbing it down and reducing the professions. Also they underestimated how the players would react thinking that what they lose in loyal playerbase they not only make up easily but that these players they pulled the carpet out from under would simple just adapt to new game or silently move to the next game. Two hard lessons that Soe and LA learned the hard way. Shutting it down completely after telling everyone that they didnt see why two SW mmo's couldnt run at the same time was their third worst decision. Don't know who holds the most blame there SOE or LA, but it'd be nice if any of these companys that make games for us to buy would actually appreciate us past the first purchase of their games. Honestly these companys today seem to lose all interest in what the players want as soon as they lose out on their dream of being the next WOW. Frankly Lucasarts and Soe both disappointed alot of ppl when they couldnt work out an agreement to keep a game that still had a viable population of players actively subing in their game. Lucasarts more then Soe for saying that there was no reason to shut down SWG just because SWTOR was coming out and then having the final day of the servers being active on the same day of SWtors 1st early admission day the 15th of december.
Just my opinion, also I said their worst and 3rd worst failures as I count both the CU and the NGE together as the CU was only a placeholder while they worked on the NGE, 3rd being shuting the game completely down. I reserve their second biggest Failure for Star wars force unleashed two that took me 6 hours to beat on hard mode, making it the sadest 60 bucks I ever spent.