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GW2 the melting pot of MMO

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  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,915Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Eir_S

    It IS another WoW clone, as basically stated by the Bioware or EA CEO.  Can't remember which now, but when you issue a statement saying it's "dumb" to change the things WoW did, you're obviously not dedicated to change.

    I think this statement is taken out of context by many. As it's basically saying you don't undo the ways WOW brought the genre forward. If it meant what many of you paint it as they wouldn't even have voiced content. If TOR was exactly like WOW it wouldn't have the issues it has right now.

    In short it says, you can't ignore what made wow successful, it didn't say you have to copy every feature implementation for implementation.

     

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • wowfan1996wowfan1996 NonePosts: 719Member


    Originally posted by Distopia
    In short it says, you can't ignore what made wow successful, it didn't say you have to copy every feature implementation for implementation.
    Unfortunately for clone-makers WoW is successful because of many factors, not just because of its gameplay features. :) I'm actually listening to Cata soundtrack right now and it's a damn nice soundtrack. Of course, gameplay goes first but WoW also has all those little extra things that make the journey really enjoyable. ;)
     
     

    MMORPG genre is dead. Long live MMOCS (Massively Multiplayer Online Cash Shop).

  • garretthgarretth Chandler, AZPosts: 316Member

    Originally posted by wowfan1996

     




    Originally posted by Distopia

    In short it says, you can't ignore what made wow successful, it didn't say you have to copy every feature implementation for implementation.



     

    Unfortunately for clone-makers WoW is successful not just because of its gameplay features. :) I'm actually listening to Cata soundtrack right now and it's a damn nice soundtrack. Of course, gameplay goes first but WoW also has all those little extra things that make the journey really enjoyable. ;)

     

     

    Yep, I'd rather have an original Prada bag than a cheap imitation.  :)

  • El-HefeEl-Hefe Yakima, WAPosts: 609Member

    Originally posted by steeler989

    Originally posted by Lucioon

    GW2 didn't reinvent MMO, they aren't introducing anything new to the Genre, but what they are doing is combining everything that was fun, everything that was innovative in other games and bring them together and evolve them to fit their game.

    I came across a post where someone was discussing whether or not GW2 is Innovative, and introducing anything NEW.

    And someone posted that everything that existed in GW2 existed in a form in every other MMO But they were never all in a single game before. And I believe thats Why GW2 is so popular and will stay popular.

    Dodge mechanic - DDO and Vindictus, TERA

    W v W - DAOC RvR

    Dynamic Events - Rift

    Personal Stories - SWTOR

     

     

     

     

     Now many can argue with this. The "Rifts" Would come up in the same place, be the same thing, and people could just farm on them (Like I did : P )

    GW2 has ACTUAL Dynamic Events, that people don't know what will come up and where.

    it wont take long for people to figure out what events happen where. 

    I've got the straight edge.

  • dontadowdontadow Detroit, MIPosts: 1,044Member Common

    Scaling is certainly the major difference in the advancement of dynamic content.  

    DYnamic is the computer thinking like a DM.  Algorytims and cycles help that thinking.  The more complex, the more dynamic they will be. It's basic computing. 

    Runes of Magic came out 2 years before Rift and the korean versions had dynamic events in those. They were based on a varying timer but scaled poorly and only gave rewards to the first 32 players.  Which allowed guilds, like mine, to run the event like a speakeasy.  

  • wowfan1996wowfan1996 NonePosts: 719Member


    Originally posted by garretth
    Yep, I'd rather have an original Prada bag than a cheap imitation.  :)
    The sad part is that SWTOR is by no means cheap. I still wonder where all the money went.
     

    MMORPG genre is dead. Long live MMOCS (Massively Multiplayer Online Cash Shop).

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,915Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by garretth

    Originally posted by wowfan1996

     




    Originally posted by Distopia

    In short it says, you can't ignore what made wow successful, it didn't say you have to copy every feature implementation for implementation.



     

    Unfortunately for clone-makers WoW is successful not just because of its gameplay features. :) I'm actually listening to Cata soundtrack right now and it's a damn nice soundtrack. Of course, gameplay goes first but WoW also has all those little extra things that make the journey really enjoyable. ;)

     

     

    Yep, I'd rather have an original Prada bag than a cheap imitation.  :)

    I'd rather have a discussion that didn't diverge into comments like this. image

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • stayBlindstayBlind Suwannee, GAPosts: 527Member

    Originally posted by GeezerGamer

    Originally posted by steeler989


    Originally posted by Lucioon

    GW2 didn't reinvent MMO, they aren't introducing anything new to the Genre, but what they are doing is combining everything that was fun, everything that was innovative in other games and bring them together and evolve them to fit their game.

    I came across a post where someone was discussing whether or not GW2 is Innovative, and introducing anything NEW.

    And someone posted that everything that existed in GW2 existed in a form in every other MMO But they were never all in a single game before. And I believe thats Why GW2 is so popular and will stay popular.

    Dodge mechanic - DDO and Vindictus, TERA

    W v W - DAOC RvR

    Dynamic Events - Rift

    Personal Stories - SWTOR

     

     

     

     

     Now many can argue with this. The "Rifts" Would come up in the same place, be the same thing, and people could just farm on them (Like I did : P )

    GW2 has ACTUAL Dynamic Events, that people don't know what will come up and where.

    GW2's DE's are anything but dynamic. It's a cyclical flow chart of events

    Yes, but GW2 the DE's are the primary focus of the game. In Rift and WAR they were a footnote to stale quest hub style leveling.

    Little forum boys with their polished cyber toys: whine whine, boo-hoo, talk talk.

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,915Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Slaanesh24

     

    Yes, but GW2 the DE's are the primary focus of the game. In Rift and WAR they were a footnote to stale quest hub style leveling.

    Wait there were quests in WAR? image

    ( for those who can't see it: sarcasm, all I remember was PVP and those things no one did)

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • Ice-QueenIce-Queen USA, GAPosts: 2,451Member Uncommon

    I actually like the idea of a game company taking the best from mmos past and putting their own spin on it, making it better. I can think of many times talking to friends and my husband about things from different games that would all be good in just one game. What I don't like is when they try to clone another game like Warhammer and SWTOR tried to do with WoW, and then do it poorly. If they're going to clone a game, do it correctly and have the basic features at least at launch, and have a vision of what you'd like to do with your game.

    image

    What happens when you log off your characters????.....
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
    Dark Age of Camelot

  • DerpybirdDerpybird Boston, MAPosts: 991Member

    Originally posted by wowfan1996

     




    Originally posted by Distopia

    In short it says, you can't ignore what made wow successful, it didn't say you have to copy every feature implementation for implementation.





    Unfortunately for clone-makers WoW is successful because of many factors, not just because of its gameplay features. :) I'm actually listening to Cata soundtrack right now and it's a damn nice soundtrack. Of course, gameplay goes first but WoW also has all those little extra things that make the journey really enjoyable. ;)

     

     

     

    Except for many, the enjoyable ride stopped in Cata...

    "Loading screens" are not "instances".
    Your personal efforts to troll any game will not, in fact, impact the success or failure of said game.

  • RazephonRazephon LondonPosts: 626Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Slaanesh24

    Originally posted by GeezerGamer


    Originally posted by steeler989


    Originally posted by Lucioon

    GW2 didn't reinvent MMO, they aren't introducing anything new to the Genre, but what they are doing is combining everything that was fun, everything that was innovative in other games and bring them together and evolve them to fit their game.

    I came across a post where someone was discussing whether or not GW2 is Innovative, and introducing anything NEW.

    And someone posted that everything that existed in GW2 existed in a form in every other MMO But they were never all in a single game before. And I believe thats Why GW2 is so popular and will stay popular.

    Dodge mechanic - DDO and Vindictus, TERA

    W v W - DAOC RvR

    Dynamic Events - Rift

    Personal Stories - SWTOR

     

     

     

     

     Now many can argue with this. The "Rifts" Would come up in the same place, be the same thing, and people could just farm on them (Like I did : P )

    GW2 has ACTUAL Dynamic Events, that people don't know what will come up and where.

    GW2's DE's are anything but dynamic. It's a cyclical flow chart of events

    Yes, but GW2 the DE's are the primary focus of the game. In Rift and WAR they were a footnote to stale quest hub style leveling.

    Having played GW2 now several times (without NDA) and seen pretty much all footage of it on the net I wanna clarify:

    YES YOU CAN PLAY GW2 LIKE NORMAL MMOS. There are these things called 'heart quests', where you enter an area and perform a variety of activities to gain favor with an NPC. Once you gain favor with this NPC he allows you to trade with him to gain access to certain items. There are a LOT of heart quests in GW2. Moreso than Dynamic events.

    This game will be more like Rift than people realise. The difference being, in Rift you could see on the map where events/invasions are about to unfold. In GW2 you kind of need to know the map to know where all the big Dynamic events take place. Most of the time you'll just stumble upon them or be in the right area. Your exploration of the map is primarily led by two things: hearts and skill points. Dynamic events are things you stop and notice along the way to these activities.

    I'm in the same boat as the OP. GW2 has taken things that were done well and evolved them. That is however enough for me. I'm happy with that. My expectations are met. I will enjoy GW2.

    Currently waiting for the MMO industry to put out something good.
  • KhinRuniteKhinRunite ManilaPosts: 879Member

    Originally posted by Lucioon

    GW2 didn't reinvent MMO, they aren't introducing anything new to the Genre, but what they are doing is combining everything that was fun, everything that was innovative in other games and bring them together and evolve them to fit their game.

    I came across a post where someone was discussing whether or not GW2 is Innovative, and introducing anything NEW.

    And someone posted that everything that existed in GW2 existed in a form in every other MMO But they were never all in a single game before. And I believe thats Why GW2 is so popular and will stay popular.

    Dodge mechanic - DDO and Vindictus, TERA

    W v W - DAOC RvR

    Dynamic Events - Rift

    Personal Stories - SWTOR

    PS : understand that GW2 brought everything that was fun, evolve it, changing it to fit their game is a good thing. No one is denying it. Rift did invent the dynamic rifts, but GW2 brought it further, it actually made it dynamic. It combined normal questing, with the concept and made it work better.

    PS: SWTOR tried to combine MMO with Story and RPG, but it focused on Profession stories, yet forgotten about choices that mattered. GW2 took that idea and focused on PERSONAL stories, stories based on Race with Profession to direct how and where the stories go. Its an evolution of their concept.

    What makes a game great isn't to try something new, rather is to bring what is already there, and Evolve it to the next stage where it becomes something entirely new.

     

     

     

    SWTOR and TERA have no business being up in that list. It's not like GW2 devs just thought of implementing the similar features AFTER they were released. Give me another game that pays as much attention to personalized story that was around much longer.

    I'm not even going to bother arguing with the random people here about the semantics of "Dynamic Events".  But no, they're not like Rift. They only share the name.

  • wowfan1996wowfan1996 NonePosts: 719Member


    Originally posted by Slaanesh24
    In Rift and WAR they were a footnote to stale quest hub style leveling.
    I liked PQs in WAR but when I started playing PvE zones had already been abandoned so I never had a chance to try most of them. I agree about quest hubs though - it's an outdated concept. Even MMOs that still have quests are evolving away from them. People did quests in early Rift because there was no LFD but now it seems only completionists bother with them. There are dailies of course, but if there were less grindy ways to get rep nobody would do dailies either.
     

    MMORPG genre is dead. Long live MMOCS (Massively Multiplayer Online Cash Shop).

  • DerpybirdDerpybird Boston, MAPosts: 991Member

    This game will be more like Rift than people realise. The difference being, in Rift you could see on the map where events/invasions are about to unfold. In GW2 you kind of need to know the map to know where all the big Dynamic events take place. Most of the time you'll just stumble upon them or be in the right area. Your exploration of the map is primarily led by two things: hearts and skill points. Dynamic events are things you stop and notice along the way to these activities.

    I'm in the same boat as the OP. GW2 has taken things that were done well and evolved them. That is however enough for me. I'm happy with that. My expectations are met. I will enjoy GW2.

    While having played Rift for only 2 months, i believe that I can say that it is not like GW2 at all. Rifts were intrusive events that popped up in the world. There was no real context for them, they were all essentially the same (yes, closing a rift might involve slightly different tactics, and yes there were different kinds of rifts), and the only impact they had on the world appeared to be if they weren't stopped they might take over a quest hub. Again, not an expert here, so I freely admit that I could be wrong.

    In GW2 the events are part of the environment. Some of them are triggered by the player (e.g. hey, sure, we'll help escort your caravan), but most occur whether you are there or not, and whether your participate or not. And success/failure conditions lead to additional events, so failing to fight off a centaur attack means that later you may have to join to retake the town, or defeating the attack means you might rally to take on the centaur base. They are a "cause and effect" pendulum, with some events unfolding over a significant period of time, others shorter. This creates a feeling that you are part of the world, and not that the world is your themepark where you walk up to a questgiver and say sure I'll play this game and get sent off into some phased instance. You're there, along with whoever is around you, often doing a variety of tasks that all contribute to a "victory" or "defeat" condition. And all of this scales in complexity depending on the number of people joining in. Area "bosses" even gain or lose abilities based on number of participants.

    Exploration can be guided by the hearts, yes, but there are around 200 hidden areas (as per ANet website) that you find by exporing, whether they are high up, deep down, or underwater.

    "Loading screens" are not "instances".
    Your personal efforts to troll any game will not, in fact, impact the success or failure of said game.

  • StriderXedStriderXed AURORA, ILPosts: 257Member

     

    This is where the sorry excuse of the game is B2P and if you do not like just wait for the next content patch or some crap. B2P is a complete and utter failure system of a payment model. ArenaNET can say screw you and we do what we want and answer to noone.

     

    Damn nail on the head. It makes complete sense to make a game for the players, and then piss them off later because the game is b2p. Destroying loyality and trust for one another, while expecting to bring in new customers with such a bad rep. Looking at gw1...Yup! This sounds just like ArenaNet.

    image

  • megera23megera23 BurgasPosts: 239Member

    I think the OP should read this.

     

    http://www.guildwarsinsider.com/campaigns-cancelled-guild-wars-ii-news-years/

     

    A comparison between what Arenanet first announced they want to have in GW2 back in 2007 and what they have today. So the only thing that should remain on that list is the WvW, to which Arenanet in fact have admitted that they were inspired by DAoC.

     

    Also, GW1 had different storylines, based on the campaign you happened to play. In Nightfall(2006), based on choices you made, you even got to go through different paths. It's only natural that Arenanet would keep and expand on an indea they already had implemented in their first game.

  • aesperusaesperus Hamshire, NVPosts: 5,128Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by megera23

    I think the OP should read this.

    http://www.guildwarsinsider.com/campaigns-cancelled-guild-wars-ii-news-years/

    A comparison between what Arenanet first announced they want to have in GW2 back in 2007 and what they have today. So the only thing that should remain on that list is the WvW, to which Arenanet in fact have admitted that they were inspired by DAoC.

    Also, GW1 had different storylines, based on the campaign you happened to play. In Nightfall(2006), based on choices you made, you even got to go through different paths. It's only natural that Arenanet would keep and expand on an indea they already had implemented in their first game.

    Excellent find. I think that is exactly why so many of us trust Anet with this one.

    They have shown that when they say they are going to do something, they actually do it. There are a few things on that list that got scrapped / modified, but none of the major concepts got scrapped. They are still in there, and play very much like how they said they would back in 2007.

  • EvereghaloEvereghalo Dallas, TXPosts: 51Member

    Originally posted by Rohn

    Originally posted by steeler989


    Originally posted by Lucioon

    GW2 didn't reinvent MMO, they aren't introducing anything new to the Genre, but what they are doing is combining everything that was fun, everything that was innovative in other games and bring them together and evolve them to fit their game.

    I came across a post where someone was discussing whether or not GW2 is Innovative, and introducing anything NEW.

    And someone posted that everything that existed in GW2 existed in a form in every other MMO But they were never all in a single game before. And I believe thats Why GW2 is so popular and will stay popular.

    Dodge mechanic - DDO and Vindictus, TERA

    W v W - DAOC RvR

    Dynamic Events - Rift

    Personal Stories - SWTOR

     

     

     

     

     Now many can argue with this. The "Rifts" Would come up in the same place, be the same thing, and people could just farm on them (Like I did : P )

    GW2 has ACTUAL Dynamic Events, that people don't know what will come up and where.

     

    They aren't dynamic, they are scripted along a track.  "Oh look, the bandits are attacking that town... again."  Same as earlier today, and yesterday, and the day before that.  Phases of an event won't change - the bandits won't decide to adopt another tactic, or attack a different town, or quit permanently.  They will go from Phase 1, to 2, to 3, and on and on, until players intervene.

    GW2 is indeed a melting pot.  It's an amalgamation of everything that's wrong with MMORPGs today.  Ultra-fast leveling, instant gratification 80's for PvP, instance-only e-sport PvP (and yes, WvW is an instance), meaningless gameworld, "P2W" cash shop, catering to the casual solo player, etc.

    It has everything other games have been bashed relentlessly for.

    Yea, well you are in the minority.

    MMO's have changed, they are BIG business, and what you cite as a bad thing are here to stay.

    image
  • Grimrist000Grimrist000 Northridge, CAPosts: 82Member

    if anything, i see Dynamic Events as GW1's quest and missions system brought into a persistent world. Anet tried to incorporate DE's in GW back in 2006 or 2007 in a canceled campaign called GW:Utopia, but they were afraid it's going to change the game a little too much(or was it technical limitations with the engine? can't remember) so they ended up making GW2 instead, which makes me doubt Rift had any influence on the creation of DE's since i don't think Trion has started releasing any info about RIft at that time. maybe WAR did, but that might be stretch cause like i said, GW1's quests and missions operated pretty much the same way as DE's since its release. the only difference is that, in GW1, it's instanced. 

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,915Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by aesperus

    Originally posted by megera23

    I think the OP should read this.

    http://www.guildwarsinsider.com/campaigns-cancelled-guild-wars-ii-news-years/

    A comparison between what Arenanet first announced they want to have in GW2 back in 2007 and what they have today. So the only thing that should remain on that list is the WvW, to which Arenanet in fact have admitted that they were inspired by DAoC.

    Also, GW1 had different storylines, based on the campaign you happened to play. In Nightfall(2006), based on choices you made, you even got to go through different paths. It's only natural that Arenanet would keep and expand on an indea they already had implemented in their first game.

    Excellent find. I think that is exactly why so many of us trust Anet with this one.

    They have shown that when they say they are going to do something, they actually do it. There are a few things on that list that got scrapped / modified, but none of the major concepts got scrapped. They are still in there, and play very much like how they said they would back in 2007.

    I find this statement weird in that Strain is now creating a complex game, at least seemingly @ Zombie Labs. I also find it somewhat concerning in that while easy-to-grasp and "fun" games are good for time kills, they don't tend to make long term homes for many, including myself.

    It also in a way contradicts what many have been saying in the press or elsewhere, or even that they failed to reach that level of ease.

    "We’re battling against complexity. We don’t want to make complicated games. We want to make fun, easy-to-grasp games that are easy to get into and not frontloaded with complexity.”

    I can't really say much in regard to the rest, it was an interesting read, and a long one. But I was done with GW1 before EOTN released. Due to that I really didn't pay much attention to GW information or A-net statements from then until only a few months ago.

     

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • elockeelocke Manassas, VAPosts: 4,205Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by gaeanprayer

    Originally posted by elocke


    Originally posted by Lucioon

    GW2 didn't reinvent MMO, they aren't introducing anything new to the Genre, but what they are doing is combining everything that was fun, everything that was innovative in other games and bring them together and evolve them to fit their game.

    I came across a post where someone was discussing whether or not GW2 is Innovative, and introducing anything NEW.

    And someone posted that everything that existed in GW2 existed in a form in every other MMO But they were never all in a single game before. And I believe thats Why GW2 is so popular and will stay popular.

    Dodge mechanic - DDO and Vindictus, TERA

    W v W - DAOC RvR

    Dynamic Events - Rift

    Personal Stories - SWTOR

     

     

     

     

    So...would we say they are pulling a Blizzard 2004 WoW moment?  That's what WoW did but with games before 2004 and look how well that turned out for them.  Hence, why I can't wait to play GW2.  I wonder if it will cause a GW2 clone domino effect for the next 8 years.  Hmmm....

    First off, your sig is hilarious. You're probably going to get in trouble for the size of it, but I love it anyway.

    Secondly, GOD I hope you're wrong in your post. I absolutely love GW2 and am looking forward to it more than any game I've ever been excited about, but I do NOT want people to clone it constantly the way we've had everyone clone WoW for nearly the last decade. There is more than one way to create a fun environment for people to play in, and whether GW2 gets it right or not, I don't want to play a hundred other iterations of it. When I get a new game, I want it to be ~a new game~, not a reskin of what already exists.

    Oh, I agree. I want my MMORPGs to be nice and diverse and give me something different in each.  But it would be quite telling if the same domino effect happened wouldn't it?  It might help us as consumers point out which companies suck and are in it for Profit ONLY and which ones actually want to make great games.  Just a thought.

    image
  • Scripture1Scripture1 Philadelpihia, PAPosts: 426Member

    Originally posted by Lucioon

    GW2 didn't reinvent MMO, they aren't introducing anything new to the Genre, but what they are doing is combining everything that was fun, everything that was innovative in other games and bring them together and evolve them to fit their game.

     

     

     

     

    The fact of the matter is that somewhere in the backdrop of things, there is still an element that says "This is our game" which is whats most important. If the facts only relied on making things better then there would be more issues. For me there is certainly a new "shiny toy" feeling about it all.

    image
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