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EA/Bioware equals...

hh33hh33 chicago, ILPosts: 55Member

Hubris & arrogance defined.....

Despite the fact that SWTOR's inevitable failure is going to hurt indie developers seeking investment capital, it will end up becoming a positive in the long run.

It may take a few years, but we may actually get to see developers start taking risks and see some innovation in this genre. I realize that I said earlier that I did not want to see SWTOR fail, I've changed my mind.

The MMO market needs a catastrophic wipeout like SWTOR in order to move forward to the next level. I'm willing to bet that the top dogs at Blizzard are laughing their collective asses off right now at EA/Bioware.

PS- I never played WoW if you think I am some fanboi.

Comments

  • dubyahitedubyahite Lincoln, NEPosts: 2,483Member

    If anything is going to hurt the indie MMO developers, it's the string of crappy games they have released over and over with a few exceptions.

     

    They are frequently extremely buggy and often very poorly supported by the developers. Don't get me wrong, I love indie games, but in the MMO world they very rarely are able to release a complete product that doesn't completely fall apart. 

     

    Saying that TOR's failure or success would be good for the industry or bad for the industry is a very simplistic view of the subject. People aren't going to stop investing in indie games because TOR is a failure or success. Indie developers in the MMO genre are their own worst enemy more often than not. 

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  • Darklighter1Darklighter1 Salem, NHPosts: 250Member Common

    Originally posted by hh33

    Hubris & arrogance defined.....

    Despite the fact that SWTOR's inevitable failure is going to hurt indie developers seeking investment capital, it will end up becoming a positive in the long run.

    It may take a few years, but we may actually get to see developers start taking risks and see some innovation in this genre. I realize that I said earlier that I did not want to see SWTOR fail, I've changed my mind.

    The MMO market needs a catastrophic wipeout like SWTOR in order to move forward to the next level. I'm willing to bet that the top dogs at Blizzard are laughing their collective asses off right now at EA/Bioware.

    PS- I never played WoW if you think I am some fanboi.

    I doubt this since the same things happened when WoW released.  Many bugs, server crashes, failed patches.  Every new MMO is a massive new set of code.  Adding stuff to it always has the chance of problems, and that goes for any game/MMO, not just SWTOR. 

    Give them time to "learn the ropes".  If a year or two down the road Bioware is still having issues, then yeah I will join you in being annoyed.  But it's been less than 6 months since the game released. 

    And please explain since the "hubris & arrogance" comment since you glanced right over it.

  • HurvartHurvart ystadPosts: 565Member

    Originally posted by hh33

    Hubris & arrogance defined.....

    Despite the fact that SWTOR's inevitable failure is going to hurt indie developers seeking investment capital, it will end up becoming a positive in the long run.

    It may take a few years, but we may actually get to see developers start taking risks and see some innovation in this genre. I realize that I said earlier that I did not want to see SWTOR fail, I've changed my mind.

    The MMO market needs a catastrophic wipeout like SWTOR in order to move forward to the next level. I'm willing to bet that the top dogs at Blizzard are laughing their collective asses off right now at EA/Bioware.

    PS- I never played WoW if you think I am some fanboi.

    But other fail games like AoC and WAR didnt make the market any better. They continue to try to make the same type of games and hope the next one will be a success.

    I guess some indie developers are trying. But they often fail because players want AAA-polish and AAA-quality. And without that they complain and leave. Or never even try the games because they dont think a lower budget game can be good.

  • RefMinorRefMinor MyTownPosts: 3,452Member
    Originally posted by Darklighter1


    Originally posted by hh33

    Hubris & arrogance defined.....
    Despite the fact that SWTOR's inevitable failure is going to hurt indie developers seeking investment capital, it will end up becoming a positive in the long run.
    It may take a few years, but we may actually get to see developers start taking risks and see some innovation in this genre. I realize that I said earlier that I did not want to see SWTOR fail, I've changed my mind.
    The MMO market needs a catastrophic wipeout like SWTOR in order to move forward to the next level. I'm willing to bet that the top dogs at Blizzard are laughing their collective asses off right now at EA/Bioware.
    PS- I never played WoW if you think I am some fanboi.

    I doubt this since the same things happened when WoW released.  Many bugs, server crashes, failed patches.  Every new MMO is a massive new set of code.  Adding stuff to it always has the chance of problems, and that goes for any game/MMO, not just SWTOR. 

    Give them time to "learn the ropes".  If a year or two down the road Bioware is still having issues, then yeah I will join you in being annoyed.  But it's been less than 6 months since the game released. 

    And please explain since the "hubris & arrogance" comment since you glanced right over it.

     

    Hubris is announcing your MMO will change the way people play and make MMOs forever, reality is you becoming an object lesson in how not to do it.
  • JoeyMMOJoeyMMO SomewherePosts: 1,326Member

    I think we'll be up for a long wait to see EA turn to innovation and risk taking. I'm not sure TOR's failure would really be such a great thing. If new concepts in gaming become successful, like GW2 and maybe even TSW and TERA, then the market can start hoping again. Nothing like the sweet smell of success...

    imageimage
  • miguksarammiguksaram Fort Meade, MDPosts: 826Member Uncommon

    SWTOR is to the MMO community as John Madden has been to sports games for over a decade.  People already knew going into the game is was another iteration of the same thing they having been playing for years nevertheless it was an guaranteed success.  And THAT is why EA backed it.

  • fivorothfivoroth LondonPosts: 3,661Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Darklighter1

    Originally posted by hh33

    Hubris & arrogance defined.....

    Despite the fact that SWTOR's inevitable failure is going to hurt indie developers seeking investment capital, it will end up becoming a positive in the long run.

    It may take a few years, but we may actually get to see developers start taking risks and see some innovation in this genre. I realize that I said earlier that I did not want to see SWTOR fail, I've changed my mind.

    The MMO market needs a catastrophic wipeout like SWTOR in order to move forward to the next level. I'm willing to bet that the top dogs at Blizzard are laughing their collective asses off right now at EA/Bioware.

    PS- I never played WoW if you think I am some fanboi.

    I doubt this since the same things happened when WoW released.  Many bugs, server crashes, failed patches.  Every new MMO is a massive new set of code.  Adding stuff to it always has the chance of problems, and that goes for any game/MMO, not just SWTOR. 

    Give them time to "learn the ropes".  If a year or two down the road Bioware is still having issues, then yeah I will join you in being annoyed.  But it's been less than 6 months since the game released. 

    And please explain since the "hubris & arrogance" comment since you glanced right over it.

    There's a huge difference between WoW and SWTOR. Yes, WoW did have many bugs, server crashes but WoW was still the most polished MMO at that time which SWTOR clearly is not. WoW had a lot of server crashes because the servers couldn't handle the bandwidth. WOW steadily grew and the servers crashed all the time because of hte number of players in one place (city raids!!). WoW's sub number never went down, they always went up until they started hitting some crazy milestones. Look at SWTOR. They are offering so much free time nowadays. This never happened to WoW in the early years! Hell, it took 1-2 years for a trial to come out. 

    WoW also did a lot of things much better compareed to other MMOs in the market at the time. I seriously doubt SWTOR will be a success story like WoW.

    Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.

  • jpnzjpnz SydneyPosts: 3,529Member

    EA / Bioware equals, 'here is my wallet, when can I get your next game?'

     

    It is always funny to see people spout the 'failure leads to innovation' mantra.

    It is a false statement proven throughout history that anyone that knows how the 'real world' works understands.

    Gdemami -
    Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  • huskie77huskie77 Nowhere, NEPosts: 354Member

    Originally posted by jpnz

    EA / Bioware equals, 'here is my wallet, when can I get your next game?'

     

    It is always funny to see people spout the 'failure leads to innovation' mantra.

    It is a false statement proven throughout history that anyone that knows how the 'real world' works understands.

    Your statement is complete gibberish. History has proven that failure does indeed lead to innovation. Saying otherwise and with certainty means your head is burried in the sand or an equally dark hole.

     

    Get over your elitist self. It's fine not to agree with a point he makes, but don't state that a few million years of human history is bunk.

    image
  • XthosXthos Columbus, OHPosts: 2,628Member

    I didn't like it as a MMO, but I am mixed on it, I think the VO for every quest was way too much, and the mmo/single player story stuff didn't mix right...Atleast it may get people to only VO a story aspect or something, and stay away from trying to voice everything over...I just don't think you can mix personal story and a mmo the way they did, maybe someone will do it right, but I prefer mmos, and I want depth, not a half way mmo...

     

    I will not say I wish it to close down, as some seem to really like it, but I do not want it to be a big success either, because I don't want to see clones of it popping up, which it appears we are safe from, for now...So 300- 500k paying subs, they will eventually make their money back, and it will stay open, just will not be what they were wanting, and maybe it would keep Lucas from making them do something crazy that would just destroy it further.

     

    I wouldn't feel bad for EA/BW if it did fail, but as a gamer, I know what it is like to like something and for it to get abandoned and left to rot basically (Vanguard).  So I won't wish that on those that do like it.

     

  • jpnzjpnz SydneyPosts: 3,529Member

    Originally posted by huskie77

    Originally posted by jpnz

    EA / Bioware equals, 'here is my wallet, when can I get your next game?'

     

    It is always funny to see people spout the 'failure leads to innovation' mantra.

    It is a false statement proven throughout history that anyone that knows how the 'real world' works understands.

    Your statement is complete gibberish. History has proven that failure does indeed lead to innovation. Saying otherwise and with certainty means your head is burried in the sand or an equally dark hole.

     

    Get over your elitist self. It's fine not to agree with a point he makes, but don't state that a few million years of human history is bunk.

    Oh?

    Let me check the news on a certain company called Apple.

    Iphones

    The success of the Iphone (remember the original Iphone?) led to huge innovation in the mobile market.

    Yeah, remember those phones that were before the original Iphone back in 2007? Yeah.. LOL

    And that's one tech area that happened in the last 5 years.

    I am sorry but the 'real world' doesn't abide by how you think it should. :)

     

    You are more than welcomed to deny facts but don't be surprized if people call you out on it.

     

    Gdemami -
    Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  • HurvartHurvart ystadPosts: 565Member

    Originally posted by huskie77

    Originally posted by jpnz

    EA / Bioware equals, 'here is my wallet, when can I get your next game?'

     

    It is always funny to see people spout the 'failure leads to innovation' mantra.

    It is a false statement proven throughout history that anyone that knows how the 'real world' works understands.

    Your statement is complete gibberish. History has proven that failure does indeed lead to innovation. Saying otherwise and with certainty means your head is burried in the sand or an equally dark hole.

     

    Get over your elitist self. It's fine not to agree with a point he makes, but don't state that a few million years of human history is bunk.

    It will eventually lead to change. But not always innovation in that case. The worst that could happen is that the whole genre would die. If no one is prepared to invest any money anymore it could be a huge problem for all MMO-fans.

    Procucts dis appear because no one is interested anymore. Trends and peoples taste changes. Investors and companies figure out new and better ways to make money. New products become popular and people forget the old ones.

  • UnlightUnlight Ottawa, ONPosts: 2,540Member

    Originally posted by Darklighter1

    Originally posted by hh33

    Hubris & arrogance defined.....

    Despite the fact that SWTOR's inevitable failure is going to hurt indie developers seeking investment capital, it will end up becoming a positive in the long run.

    It may take a few years, but we may actually get to see developers start taking risks and see some innovation in this genre. I realize that I said earlier that I did not want to see SWTOR fail, I've changed my mind.

    The MMO market needs a catastrophic wipeout like SWTOR in order to move forward to the next level. I'm willing to bet that the top dogs at Blizzard are laughing their collective asses off right now at EA/Bioware.

    PS- I never played WoW if you think I am some fanboi.

    I doubt this since the same things happened when WoW released.  Many bugs, server crashes, failed patches.  Every new MMO is a massive new set of code.  Adding stuff to it always has the chance of problems, and that goes for any game/MMO, not just SWTOR. 

    Give them time to "learn the ropes".  If a year or two down the road Bioware is still having issues, then yeah I will join you in being annoyed.  But it's been less than 6 months since the game released. 

    And please explain since the "hubris & arrogance" comment since you glanced right over it.

    "It [World of Warcraft] is a touchstone. It has established standards, it's established how you play an MMO. Every MMO that comes out, I play and look at it. And if they break any of the WoW rules, in my book that's pretty dumb."

    - Greg Zeschuk

    Incidentally, it was this quote right here that broke me of the respect and confidence I had in this company, dating all the way back to Baldur's Gate 1. 

  • KakkzookaKakkzooka Waterbury, CTPosts: 591Member

    SWTOR's downfall will do nothing but benefit the MMORPG community.

    There was a thread on here awhile back that equated the (at that time: prelaunch) downfall of SWTOR with the overall health of MMORPGs. There were champions of both side of the argument. Once SWTOR released and the playerbase experienced how EA took a no-frills approach to the entire project (I fault Bioware much less for this, even though I lump them in when I'm on one of my daily rants) and . . . it shows.

    If  a major development company takes over a project, cobbles it together haphazardly and then tosses it to general consumers with an air of indifference, when those general consumers see how horrid the whole experience is, then they're going to presume that all MMORPGs are shoddy.  Then they'll be less inclined to want to try a new MMORPG.

    So this is why I hope EA takes a major clip to the balls for the steaming pile of crap they've just released. The players deserved much better considering how dedicated they were, and game players in general deserve better treatment.

    The message that needs to be sent is: "We pay your fucking bills. And we don't have to."

    So, the moral of the story is: "Kids, when you know a game is shitty - don't buy it just because you can."

    Because you're also a large part of the problem.

    Re: SWTOR

    "Remember, remember - Kakk says 'December.'"

  • RefMinorRefMinor MyTownPosts: 3,452Member
    Originally posted by jpnz


    Originally posted by huskie77


    Originally posted by jpnz


    EA / Bioware equals, 'here is my wallet, when can I get your next game?'
     
    It is always funny to see people spout the 'failure leads to innovation' mantra.
    It is a false statement proven throughout history that anyone that knows how the 'real world' works understands.

    Your statement is complete gibberish. History has proven that failure does indeed lead to innovation. Saying otherwise and with certainty means your head is burried in the sand or an equally dark hole.

     

    Get over your elitist self. It's fine not to agree with a point he makes, but don't state that a few million years of human history is bunk.

    Oh?

    Let me check the news on a certain company called Apple.

    Iphones

    The success of the Iphone (remember the original Iphone?) led to huge innovation in the mobile market.

    Yeah, remember those phones that were before the original Iphone back in 2007? Yeah.. LOL

    And that's one tech area that happened in the last 5 years.

    I am sorry but the 'real world' doesn't abide by how you think it should. :)

     

    You are more than welcomed to deny facts but don't be surprized if people call you out on it.

     

     

    You could argue that the iPhone innovated based on the non user friendly FAILURE of the previous smartphones to capture a good market segment.
  • KakkzookaKakkzooka Waterbury, CTPosts: 591Member

    Originally posted by RefMinor

    Originally posted by jpnz

    Originally posted by huskie77


    Originally posted by jpnz

    EA / Bioware equals, 'here is my wallet, when can I get your next game?'

     

    It is always funny to see people spout the 'failure leads to innovation' mantra.

    It is a false statement proven throughout history that anyone that knows how the 'real world' works understands.

    Your statement is complete gibberish. History has proven that failure does indeed lead to innovation. Saying otherwise and with certainty means your head is burried in the sand or an equally dark hole.

     

    Get over your elitist self. It's fine not to agree with a point he makes, but don't state that a few million years of human history is bunk.

    Oh?

    Let me check the news on a certain company called Apple.

    Iphones

    The success of the Iphone (remember the original Iphone?) led to huge innovation in the mobile market.

    Yeah, remember those phones that were before the original Iphone back in 2007? Yeah.. LOL

    And that's one tech area that happened in the last 5 years.

    I am sorry but the 'real world' doesn't abide by how you think it should. :)

     

    You are more than welcomed to deny facts but don't be surprized if people call you out on it.

     

     

    You could argue that the iPhone innovated based on the non user friendly FAILURE of the previous smartphones to capture a good market segment.

    Except that the iPhone just recently incorporated many parts of Android's UI. The notification system and info panel, particularly. Those aspects of those phones were fantastic, it was just the physical design of the phones that sucked.

    But your point contrasts mine nicely. I'm in the other camp. I think that when products are just pooped out into the market with nary a concern but for profit, everyone suffers.

    Re: SWTOR

    "Remember, remember - Kakk says 'December.'"

  • jpnzjpnz SydneyPosts: 3,529Member

    Originally posted by Kakkzooka

    Originally posted by RefMinor


     

     

    You could argue that the iPhone innovated based on the non user friendly FAILURE of the previous smartphones to capture a good market segment.

    Except that the iPhone just recently incorporated many parts of Android's UI. The notification system and info panel, particularly. Those aspects of those phones were fantastic, it was just the physical design of the phones that sucked.

    But your point contrasts mine nicely. I'm in the other camp. I think that when products are just pooped out into the market with nary a concern but for profit, everyone suffers.

    The financial sector has a saying 'Everyone is greedy'.

    If a sector is successful, more companies jump in  -> more competition -> more innovation.

    Its really eco-101 but not everyone follows the news or see what is actually happening in the real world I guess. vOv

    Gdemami -
    Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  • RefMinorRefMinor MyTownPosts: 3,452Member
    Originally posted by Kakkzooka


    Originally posted by RefMinor


    Originally posted by jpnz


    Originally posted by huskie77



    Originally posted by jpnz


    EA / Bioware equals, 'here is my wallet, when can I get your next game?'
     
    It is always funny to see people spout the 'failure leads to innovation' mantra.
    It is a false statement proven throughout history that anyone that knows how the 'real world' works understands.

    Your statement is complete gibberish. History has proven that failure does indeed lead to innovation. Saying otherwise and with certainty means your head is burried in the sand or an equally dark hole.

     

    Get over your elitist self. It's fine not to agree with a point he makes, but don't state that a few million years of human history is bunk.

    Oh?

    Let me check the news on a certain company called Apple.

    Iphones

    The success of the Iphone (remember the original Iphone?) led to huge innovation in the mobile market.

    Yeah, remember those phones that were before the original Iphone back in 2007? Yeah.. LOL

    And that's one tech area that happened in the last 5 years.

    I am sorry but the 'real world' doesn't abide by how you think it should. :)

     

    You are more than welcomed to deny facts but don't be surprized if people call you out on it.

     

     

    You could argue that the iPhone innovated based on the non user friendly FAILURE of the previous smartphones to capture a good market segment.

    Except that the iPhone just recently incorporated many parts of Android's UI. The notification system and info panel, particularly. Those aspects of those phones were fantastic, it was just the physical design of the phones that sucked.

    But your point contrasts mine nicely. I'm in the other camp. I think that when products are just pooped out into the market with nary a concern but for profit, everyone suffers.

     

    I was referring to the smartphones such as the Sony Ericson P910 etc that came before the iPhone. Android is a post iPhone system.

     

    EDIT: deleted as mixed up two different posters
  • RefMinorRefMinor MyTownPosts: 3,452Member
    Originally posted by jpnz


    Originally posted by Kakkzooka


    Originally posted by RefMinor



     

     

    You could argue that the iPhone innovated based on the non user friendly FAILURE of the previous smartphones to capture a good market segment.

    Except that the iPhone just recently incorporated many parts of Android's UI. The notification system and info panel, particularly. Those aspects of those phones were fantastic, it was just the physical design of the phones that sucked.

    But your point contrasts mine nicely. I'm in the other camp. I think that when products are just pooped out into the market with nary a concern but for profit, everyone suffers.

    The financial sector has a saying 'Everyone is greedy'.

    If a sector is successful, more companies jump in  -> more competition -> more innovation.

    Its really eco-101 but not everyone follows the news or see what is actually happening in the real world I guess. vOv

     

    Not really, the innovation comes about because those that all jumped in start failing and others see that and change up their direction. Economics is about cycles of success and failure as a whole, the innovation generally comes along with the failure.
  • stragen001stragen001 ReadingPosts: 1,720Member

    Originally posted by jpnz

    Originally posted by huskie77


    Originally posted by jpnz

    EA / Bioware equals, 'here is my wallet, when can I get your next game?'

     

    It is always funny to see people spout the 'failure leads to innovation' mantra.

    It is a false statement proven throughout history that anyone that knows how the 'real world' works understands.

    Your statement is complete gibberish. History has proven that failure does indeed lead to innovation. Saying otherwise and with certainty means your head is burried in the sand or an equally dark hole.

     

    Get over your elitist self. It's fine not to agree with a point he makes, but don't state that a few million years of human history is bunk.

    Oh?

    Let me check the news on a certain company called Apple.

    Iphones

    The success of the Iphone (remember the original Iphone?) led to huge innovation in the mobile market.

    Yeah, remember those phones that were before the original Iphone back in 2007? Yeah.. LOL

    And that's one tech area that happened in the last 5 years.

    I am sorry but the 'real world' doesn't abide by how you think it should. :)

     

    You are more than welcomed to deny facts but don't be surprized if people call you out on it.

     

    You could also argue that the failure of apples other products in computing such as all of the rubbish Apple Mac computers, the IMac, the MacBook etc led them to innovate and find something that worked. IE the IPod (which is where apple started to bounce back) and the Iphone.

    Before the IPod, Apple were a joke of a company with only a very small niche in the computing market. 

    Cluck Cluck, Gibber Gibber, My Old Mans A Mushroom

  • BurntvetBurntvet Baltimore, MDPosts: 2,940Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by stragen001

    Originally posted by jpnz


    Originally posted by huskie77


    Originally posted by jpnz

    EA / Bioware equals, 'here is my wallet, when can I get your next game?'

     

    It is always funny to see people spout the 'failure leads to innovation' mantra.

    It is a false statement proven throughout history that anyone that knows how the 'real world' works understands.

    Your statement is complete gibberish. History has proven that failure does indeed lead to innovation. Saying otherwise and with certainty means your head is burried in the sand or an equally dark hole.

     

    Get over your elitist self. It's fine not to agree with a point he makes, but don't state that a few million years of human history is bunk.

    Oh?

    Let me check the news on a certain company called Apple.

    Iphones

    The success of the Iphone (remember the original Iphone?) led to huge innovation in the mobile market.

    Yeah, remember those phones that were before the original Iphone back in 2007? Yeah.. LOL

    And that's one tech area that happened in the last 5 years.

    I am sorry but the 'real world' doesn't abide by how you think it should. :)

     

    You are more than welcomed to deny facts but don't be surprized if people call you out on it.

     

    You could also argue that the failure of apples other products in computing such as all of the rubbish Apple Mac computers, the IMac, the MacBook etc led them to innovate and find something that worked. IE the IPod (which is where apple started to bounce back) and the Iphone.

    Before the IPod, Apple were a joke of a company with only a very small niche in the computing market. 

     

    This.

    At 2 separate points in its corporate life, Apple nearly went bankrupt. But each time, they were re-capitalized through buy-outs and came out with new and innovative products.

    Sometimes, an entire market sector needs to go down, before it can reinvent itself.

    In the video game market, this happened in the early 80s, where virtually every single video game maker at the time either restructured or went under. It took the better part of 10 years, but the industry rediscovered creativity and innovation and eventually became the video game market we have today.

    We might be getting ready for the same thing in the MMO genre, because like the early 80s video game market, the current market for MMOs and a lot of other games is over-saturated with crap product, and at a certain point, no matter how cheap the price, people will stop paying for an inferior product and idea.

    That might be what we are seeing here.

     

  • manakanamanakana StockholmPosts: 75Member

    Originally posted by Darklighter1

    Originally posted by hh33

    Hubris & arrogance defined.....

    Despite the fact that SWTOR's inevitable failure is going to hurt indie developers seeking investment capital, it will end up becoming a positive in the long run.

    It may take a few years, but we may actually get to see developers start taking risks and see some innovation in this genre. I realize that I said earlier that I did not want to see SWTOR fail, I've changed my mind.

    The MMO market needs a catastrophic wipeout like SWTOR in order to move forward to the next level. I'm willing to bet that the top dogs at Blizzard are laughing their collective asses off right now at EA/Bioware.

    PS- I never played WoW if you think I am some fanboi.

    I doubt this since the same things happened when WoW released.  Many bugs, server crashes, failed patches.  Every new MMO is a massive new set of code.  Adding stuff to it always has the chance of problems, and that goes for any game/MMO, not just SWTOR. 

    Give them time to "learn the ropes".  If a year or two down the road Bioware is still having issues, then yeah I will join you in being annoyed.  But it's been less than 6 months since the game released. 

    And please explain since the "hubris & arrogance" comment since you glanced right over it.

    You can't use this as an argument anymore. Yes, Blizzard had problems at launch. Yes, servers crashed and there were a lot of bugs like with many other MMOs. But they were using the technology of 2004. It has developed so much in these 8 years.  

    Why should we wait 2 years for Bioware to learn the ropes when they should have done it during the many years of development? Companies need to stop the rush to get their games out to the people, and actually finish the games.

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