None of the developers at bioware understand a sh1t about mmo gaming. All patches since launch have left me disappointed.
They are better off making singleplayer games.
I cant wait for GW2 to kick swtor butt. Expect swtor to go f2p next year.
You know?, there is a lot of people who really like the 1.2 and the pvp changes, but they dont lose their time qqing on mmorpg.com and swtor.com. And plus they just give us a free month while we wait for the ranked wz. And gw2 wont ¨kick swtor¨, is a b2p game.
Please explain to us how implementing Ranks is gonna fix all this mess with PVP?
I can give you the answer... it's really simple: It won't fix a darn thing! It will make it even worse than it already is, as it will only broaden the gap with people that are already fully geared out (going to top the ranks) towards everyone else.
Seriously, Bioware would be better of telling the PVP'ers they are sorry and remove PVP completely from the game and just focus on PVE and fix that up and at least try to keep those people subscribed to the game.
None of the developers at bioware understand a sh1t about mmo gaming. All patches since launch have left me disappointed.
They are better off making singleplayer games.
I cant wait for GW2 to kick swtor butt. Expect swtor to go f2p next year.
You know?, there is a lot of people who really like the 1.2 and the pvp changes, but they dont lose their time qqing on mmorpg.com and swtor.com. And plus they just give us a free month while we wait for the ranked wz. And gw2 wont ¨kick swtor¨, is a b2p game.
Yes people sitting in full BM and Warhero gear are loving 1.2. I already mentioned that. The same people who were busy farming gear pre 1.2 on easy mode. These same people who are in panic mode now because players are asking for old system back. Who would want to leave their gear advantage? why they were quite before 1.2 and now they are telling everyone that harsh penalities on loss are brilliant.
It is sad that i put so much effort in my OP and you are simply dismissing it as QQ. The same reason why i stopped posting on official forums.
Also remember that a lot of these people in full BM/ WH leveled against bolstered opponents, and who can forget the Ilum exploit ?
Im a sorc healer in full BM gear and I stopped playing Friday night. I tried the new system Thursday evening and couldnt stand the fact that they totally ruined my class. I went back Friday with a fresh outlook and tried to make it work. Sorc healers in its new state is total garbage. They nerfed our heals, made everyone else stronger and took away my dark infusion quick heal. I can now get stunned and get killed before the stun wears off. Due to the long cast times, I can no longer use dark infusion because I get stunned or interrupted. ToR was fun while it lasted but I will just spend my money on another company that has some sort of clue on how to run an mmo.
Don't get your hopes up too high. SWG never went F2P. WAR never really went F2P either (since their endless trial covers such a tiny part of the game you can't even call it freemium).
SWG never went F2P because LA was always intent on shutting it down to eliminate SWTOR's competition.
Why announce a game to shut down that was actually growing population wise and making SOE a bit of cash with that ridiculous trading card game.
But EA makes enough money from other games to let SWTOR run along to avoid the whole Free to Play outcry.
My guess is it'll go f2p once a lot more big games come out
Currently playing- SWG PreCU & GW 2 Have tried WoW, AoC, & Vanguard, SWG:NGE, GW, LOTRO & SWTOR Best MMO: SWG Worst MMO: SWTOR
Don't get your hopes up too high. SWG never went F2P. WAR never really went F2P either (since their endless trial covers such a tiny part of the game you can't even call it freemium).
SWG never went F2P because LA was always intent on shutting it down to eliminate SWTOR's competition.
Why announce a game to shut down that was actually growing population wise and making SOE a bit of cash with that ridiculous trading card game.
But EA makes enough money from other games to let SWTOR run along to avoid the whole Free to Play outcry.
My guess is it'll go f2p once a lot more big games come out
SW:TOR's whole design screams F2P with Cashshop.
Mark my words.... in the EA board backchamber this game was designed to go F2P in the near future.
Switching this game to F2P in the near future and adding a Cashshop is peace of cake for them, as all content is already heavily gated / instanced... so easy to sell in Quest/Zone packs and adding new ones. Basically like how Turbine has done with DDO and LOTRO. Just that with the heavy instancing / gating in SW:TOR it will be even easier.
Don't get your hopes up too high. SWG never went F2P. WAR never really went F2P either (since their endless trial covers such a tiny part of the game you can't even call it freemium).
SWG never went F2P because LA was always intent on shutting it down to eliminate SWTOR's competition.
Why announce a game to shut down that was actually growing population wise and making SOE a bit of cash with that ridiculous trading card game.
But EA makes enough money from other games to let SWTOR run along to avoid the whole Free to Play outcry.
My guess is it'll go f2p once a lot more big games come out
SW:TOR's whole design screams F2P with Cashshop.
Mark my words.... in the EA board backchamber this game was designed to go F2P in the near future.
Switching this game to F2P in the near future and adding a Cashshop is peace of cake for them, as all content is already heavily gated / instanced... so easy to sell in Quest/Zone packs and adding new ones. Basically like how Turbine has done with DDO and LOTRO. Just that with the heavy instancing / gating in SW:TOR it will be even easier.
This has been the running theory for months now at the studio where I work. Sad part is, I'm not sure I'd even care to play it if it did go F2P
Why do I write, create, fantasize, dream and daydream about other worlds? Because I hate what humanity does with this one.
Don't get your hopes up too high. SWG never went F2P. WAR never really went F2P either (since their endless trial covers such a tiny part of the game you can't even call it freemium).
SWG never went F2P because LA was always intent on shutting it down to eliminate SWTOR's competition.
Why announce a game to shut down that was actually growing population wise and making SOE a bit of cash with that ridiculous trading card game.
But EA makes enough money from other games to let SWTOR run along to avoid the whole Free to Play outcry.
My guess is it'll go f2p once a lot more big games come out
SW:TOR's whole design screams F2P with Cashshop.
Mark my words.... in the EA board backchamber this game was designed to go F2P in the near future.
Switching this game to F2P in the near future and adding a Cashshop is peace of cake for them, as all content is already heavily gated / instanced... so easy to sell in Quest/Zone packs and adding new ones. Basically like how Turbine has done with DDO and LOTRO. Just that with the heavy instancing / gating in SW:TOR it will be even easier.
F2P works well for SWTOR, you just charge for spacebarring in cutscenes.
My thoughts exactly. I thought all the PvPer's had left based on all the forum bitching. I'm starting to think PvPer's make up about 25% of the population and 95% of the posts.
I have been having fun on my level 16 operative in pvp. I'm healing and now I always get in the top 3 for medals after a game, usually in the 12-16 medals range which with MVP votes will usually put me close to 100 commendations. They have increased the price of the low level pvp gear again though.
I think your complaints just highlight yet again that SWTOR isn't a good game for people who want to play at max level because most of your proplems seem to spring from that. Low level PvP is fine still.
You make some good points. Its been obvious that who ever is making the design decisions over there, doesn't have a clue about the actual implications involved. WAY too many Dev's do not play their own game, so they make bone headed mistakes.
But over and above that. Bioware isn't really a PvP focused company. Thus the overwhelming focus of ToR is PvE. Unless or until they get some people who understand how such games actually work, it might be best to find a game with a PvP focus.
Sad thing is that (speaking from my own server's experince) people who PVP outnumber those who PVE. Because PVP is fast and there is less downtime compared to PVE where you spend most of the time spamming for LFG. I dislike PVE in SWTOR and if simply moving on is an option then i fear SWTOR is going to lose a lot of subs.
My own guild which has 40 active members and mostly PVP players would just have to move on? i can't accept that. We put too much time and effort into PVP since release.
Choices are good but in SWTOR PVP players are running out of choices and options.
I managed to get to level 50, mainly solo. I managed to get through two or three flashpoints TOTAL in that time. I can't justify spending my play time in an attempt to find a group.
Yikes. I realized many of these points doing some PVP the last 2 days. This is really bad. The OP summed it all up really well, and it's really a disaster.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Very good post OP (nope, it's not a wall of text, as it has been pointed out you are using spaces, paragraphs and so on )
I can't help but wonder if it is some sort of misplaced pride on BioWare's part that pushes them not to listen to good, constructive feedback. It's like they are saying: Hey, we have mastered the craft of game-making, we are the masters of story-telling (which precisely SWTOR has shown they are not anylonger) so we will master the craft of MMO pvping too. Some of the points you make here were made on the PTR forums but were buried under tons of L2P mentality.
What's even worst is that BW seems to think (as most developers do) that because they are able to read some metric which is unaccesible to players they can see the truth behind the game, like if the reading of a spreadsheet gave them access to the mystical platonic knowledge of how a battle really unfolds.
But the truth is never like that. Have you ever seen those videos where a developer is explaining something about the videogame they are creating and when you see how they are playing you find yourself thinking "Heal yourself now!" or "CC the enemy!" or "why is he not peeling off of his teammate?". Well, that's because most of the time developers are crap at playing the game. Sure, some of them play it and do it in order either to have fun or to actually experience what's going on in situ, but if you pitch good high-ranked PvP players against a team of developers most of the time players will win.
How BW should have assesed players concerns regarding this patch? You grab some experienced PVE players (the best from your realms) and bring them to your PTR and put them in PVE situations and listen to their feedback then you grab High-ranked PvP guilds and put them on WZs and listen to their feedback.
But they did not do this, PvP was given to PvE players who do not understand the specific complexities of a PvP scenario.
A full PvP guild would not want, for example, healing to be nerfed into oblivion because that would nerf THEIR team too, and the lonely scrub that jumps into a WZ and can´t kill a healer on its own and runs to the forums to complain it's the one that is listened to.
Bravo BW, you will need to give another free month (based on some random parameter you decide) again next month.
Well here is the result of 2 pvp games today. In both I got 8 medals and both were the new pvp map so a good way to see the difference between a win and a loss.
Losing Game
Valour: 2100
XP: ~5000
Commendations: 45
Credits: 189
Winning Game
Valour: 3200
XP: ~5000
Commendation: 95
Credits: 2200
So it looks like the main difference is a win gives you double the number of commendations and a hell of a lot more credits, 10x at least what I got for a loss.
Well here is the result of 2 pvp games today. In both I got 8 medals and both were the new pvp map so a good way to see the difference between a win and a loss.
Losing Game
Valour: 2100
XP: ~5000
Commendations: 45
Credits: 189
Winning Game
Valour: 3200
XP: ~5000
Commendation: 95
Credits: 2200
So it looks like the main difference is a win gives you double the number of commendations and a hell of a lot more credits, 10x at least what I got for a loss.
Something here seems off. I know I made several Warzones, lost them and didn't get a SINGLE XP. I know, because my char was level 14 and just a TAD before levelling. If I had gotten any XP I would have dinged, which I didn't. Then later I lost a warzone and DID ding, so I did get XP. But after what logic I get XP one time and not many other times still escapes me. Not sure if it's just buggy or an elaborate plan.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Comments
Please explain to us how implementing Ranks is gonna fix all this mess with PVP?
I can give you the answer... it's really simple: It won't fix a darn thing! It will make it even worse than it already is, as it will only broaden the gap with people that are already fully geared out (going to top the ranks) towards everyone else.
Seriously, Bioware would be better of telling the PVP'ers they are sorry and remove PVP completely from the game and just focus on PVE and fix that up and at least try to keep those people subscribed to the game.
Good wall of text.. read it all.
Also remember that a lot of these people in full BM/ WH leveled against bolstered opponents, and who can forget the Ilum exploit ?
serious pvp'ers don't play swtor.
Im a sorc healer in full BM gear and I stopped playing Friday night. I tried the new system Thursday evening and couldnt stand the fact that they totally ruined my class. I went back Friday with a fresh outlook and tried to make it work. Sorc healers in its new state is total garbage. They nerfed our heals, made everyone else stronger and took away my dark infusion quick heal. I can now get stunned and get killed before the stun wears off. Due to the long cast times, I can no longer use dark infusion because I get stunned or interrupted. ToR was fun while it lasted but I will just spend my money on another company that has some sort of clue on how to run an mmo.
True dat.
I'm so enjoying the tears from all the ex-OP classes.
Playing sniper and only sniper since launch and having to suffer as an UP class for over 3 months was really painful.
Now I completely faceroll these crybabies who got nerfed.
I never said anything about OP classes in my topic. Not even close.
SWG never went F2P because LA was always intent on shutting it down to eliminate SWTOR's competition.
Why announce a game to shut down that was actually growing population wise and making SOE a bit of cash with that ridiculous trading card game.
But EA makes enough money from other games to let SWTOR run along to avoid the whole Free to Play outcry.
My guess is it'll go f2p once a lot more big games come out
Currently playing- SWG PreCU & GW 2
Have tried WoW, AoC, & Vanguard, SWG:NGE, GW, LOTRO & SWTOR
Best MMO: SWG
Worst MMO: SWTOR
dont forget most of the proper pvpers have left by now
you're probably facerolling lev 10's
Currently playing- SWG PreCU & GW 2
Have tried WoW, AoC, & Vanguard, SWG:NGE, GW, LOTRO & SWTOR
Best MMO: SWG
Worst MMO: SWTOR
SW:TOR's whole design screams F2P with Cashshop.
Mark my words.... in the EA board backchamber this game was designed to go F2P in the near future.
Switching this game to F2P in the near future and adding a Cashshop is peace of cake for them, as all content is already heavily gated / instanced... so easy to sell in Quest/Zone packs and adding new ones. Basically like how Turbine has done with DDO and LOTRO. Just that with the heavy instancing / gating in SW:TOR it will be even easier.
This has been the running theory for months now at the studio where I work. Sad part is, I'm not sure I'd even care to play it if it did go F2P
BOYCOTTING EA / ORIGIN going forward.
Don't get your hopes up too high. SWG never went F2P. WAR never really went F2P either (since their endless trial covers such a tiny part of the game you can't even call it freemium).
SWG never went F2P because LA was always intent on shutting it down to eliminate SWTOR's competition.
Why announce a game to shut down that was actually growing population wise and making SOE a bit of cash with that ridiculous trading card game.
But EA makes enough money from other games to let SWTOR run along to avoid the whole Free to Play outcry.
My guess is it'll go f2p once a lot more big games come out
SW:TOR's whole design screams F2P with Cashshop.
Mark my words.... in the EA board backchamber this game was designed to go F2P in the near future.
Switching this game to F2P in the near future and adding a Cashshop is peace of cake for them, as all content is already heavily gated / instanced... so easy to sell in Quest/Zone packs and adding new ones. Basically like how Turbine has done with DDO and LOTRO. Just that with the heavy instancing / gating in SW:TOR it will be even easier.
F2P works well for SWTOR, you just charge for spacebarring in cutscenes.My thoughts exactly. I thought all the PvPer's had left based on all the forum bitching. I'm starting to think PvPer's make up about 25% of the population and 95% of the posts.
Why would anybody want competitive pvp in SWTOR. It does not exist in any triple AAA release. Go play EVE is you have the "BALLS" for great pvp.
All ppl do on this website is complain like bitches.
The Gaming Community Can Kiss My Arse
I have been having fun on my level 16 operative in pvp. I'm healing and now I always get in the top 3 for medals after a game, usually in the 12-16 medals range which with MVP votes will usually put me close to 100 commendations. They have increased the price of the low level pvp gear again though.
I think your complaints just highlight yet again that SWTOR isn't a good game for people who want to play at max level because most of your proplems seem to spring from that. Low level PvP is fine still.
The Enlightened take things Lightly
Thank you for not complaining, it was nice to finally see a post that didn't complain about others!
I swear - I think these devs are getting paid by a rival company to tank SWTOR even further.
Currently playing SWTOR and it's MUCH better than it was at launch.
I managed to get to level 50, mainly solo. I managed to get through two or three flashpoints TOTAL in that time. I can't justify spending my play time in an attempt to find a group.
Yikes. I realized many of these points doing some PVP the last 2 days. This is really bad. The OP summed it all up really well, and it's really a disaster.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Sometimes I wonder...
P.S: very good wrap up OP, BioWare is certainly clueless about PvP in MMO.
Not really liking pvp after 1.2.
Very good post OP (nope, it's not a wall of text, as it has been pointed out you are using spaces, paragraphs and so on
)
I can't help but wonder if it is some sort of misplaced pride on BioWare's part that pushes them not to listen to good, constructive feedback. It's like they are saying: Hey, we have mastered the craft of game-making, we are the masters of story-telling (which precisely SWTOR has shown they are not anylonger) so we will master the craft of MMO pvping too. Some of the points you make here were made on the PTR forums but were buried under tons of L2P mentality.
What's even worst is that BW seems to think (as most developers do) that because they are able to read some metric which is unaccesible to players they can see the truth behind the game, like if the reading of a spreadsheet gave them access to the mystical platonic knowledge of how a battle really unfolds.
But the truth is never like that. Have you ever seen those videos where a developer is explaining something about the videogame they are creating and when you see how they are playing you find yourself thinking "Heal yourself now!" or "CC the enemy!" or "why is he not peeling off of his teammate?". Well, that's because most of the time developers are crap at playing the game. Sure, some of them play it and do it in order either to have fun or to actually experience what's going on in situ, but if you pitch good high-ranked PvP players against a team of developers most of the time players will win.
How BW should have assesed players concerns regarding this patch? You grab some experienced PVE players (the best from your realms) and bring them to your PTR and put them in PVE situations and listen to their feedback then you grab High-ranked PvP guilds and put them on WZs and listen to their feedback.
But they did not do this, PvP was given to PvE players who do not understand the specific complexities of a PvP scenario.
A full PvP guild would not want, for example, healing to be nerfed into oblivion because that would nerf THEIR team too, and the lonely scrub that jumps into a WZ and can´t kill a healer on its own and runs to the forums to complain it's the one that is listened to.
Bravo BW, you will need to give another free month (based on some random parameter you decide) again next month.
Don Quixote's Delusions
Well here is the result of 2 pvp games today. In both I got 8 medals and both were the new pvp map so a good way to see the difference between a win and a loss.
Losing Game
Valour: 2100
XP: ~5000
Commendations: 45
Credits: 189
Winning Game
Valour: 3200
XP: ~5000
Commendation: 95
Credits: 2200
So it looks like the main difference is a win gives you double the number of commendations and a hell of a lot more credits, 10x at least what I got for a loss.
The Enlightened take things Lightly
Something here seems off. I know I made several Warzones, lost them and didn't get a SINGLE XP. I know, because my char was level 14 and just a TAD before levelling. If I had gotten any XP I would have dinged, which I didn't. Then later I lost a warzone and DID ding, so I did get XP. But after what logic I get XP one time and not many other times still escapes me. Not sure if it's just buggy or an elaborate plan.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert