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If you thought Ilum PVP was bad wait till you pvp after 1.2

Hi, i would like to keep this post short because i know long posts scare people and they won't bother to read it. I would like to mention some serious oversgihts and blunders made in PVP in patch 1.2

 

- (1) No Penality for leavin warzones. Yes you can just leave as many warzones as you like if you are not winning.

 

- (2) Harsh penalities on loss which ls directly connected to the above point and rest of the points below.

 

- (3) Too much focus on getting medals. After 1.2 in order to get most commendations you have to get most medals which can be accumilated through defense points, killing blows,planting bombs, scoring goals etc. Although nice in theory to work as a deterrant against those who just want to afk and leech off others, it has failed big time in practise.

Why? because if you are on losing side the best option is to turtle close to turrets and doors and try to get as many medals as possible. The end result is same people going afk but this time close to defense objectives.

If you get less than 3 medals you get zero commendations, zero XP and zero cash. getting 3 medals net you around 15 to 20 commendations and to get 40+ commendations you need 8 or more medals. Result is that people are too worried about losing medals and there is lot more turtling than fighting. Healer and dps usually just rush to turrets and refuse to move if they know they are going to lose, so why not get atleast 3 medals? or go home empty handed.

This problem gets more serious when you are constantly matched against premades in full BM and Warhero gear. You have no chance to win so either turtle to get 3 medals or quit the match..which takes us back to the first point i made.

 

- (4) After 1.2 matches do not close down if you enter a warzone with less players. So either you toughen it up and keep fighting outnumbered or lose and go home with zero rewards or.... get measly 10 to 15 commendations because you failed to get enough medals.

 

- (5) PVP weekly and PVP daily gives equal reward. Yes sir, 99 warzone commendations, 99 ranked commendations. Before 1.2 players used to get atleast 4 bags for completing weekly. Now doesn't matter if you put double effort in completing weekly, reward is the same.

 

- (6) Huge nerf on cash from PVP. Now even if you hate PVE well suck it up, grind PVE dailies. There is no option or choice anymore.

 

- (7) Insane amount of money sink in 1.2. Simple legacy gear costs around 500 to 600K for full set. Taking mods out of BM gear will set you back with 500K. Things like mail box in your ship and droids for repare costs cool 1 to 2 mill credits. Legacy unlocks can go up to 1 mill and over. Things like cutting your cool down on fleet pass can cost a million or more.

Nerf to PVP cash has just made it a huge grind for PVP players. PVE players are still fine.

 

- (8) Still with me? if you want to PVP roll biochem. Since the commendations have been nerfed and healers have been nerfed further. You will have to spend a lot of commendations on stims from PVP vendors for survival. Who would want to do that when commendations are hard to come by and you would rather save it for gear instead of spending it on stims and medpacks?

 

- (9) Due to people constantly leaving matches, if you replace one of them or join in late and lost you will again get zero in everything. Apparently you didn't have enough time to win minimum of 3 medals by defending,  killing blows etc.

 

So who is benefiting the most out of 1.2? people in full BM / Warhero gear rolling in premades. (Yes i have full BM gear too). I am all about penalities for loss and giving more rewards to winners but why put such harsh penalities that your progression comes to a halt which only further helps in increasing the already widening gap between those who are well geared and those who just started PVP at 50?

Before this patch we thought BW is making right move and will help players gear up faster so that the only thing differentiates them is skill. I love progression and i love playing for incentives too but at the same time i would also like to have matches where players are on equal footing in terms of gear.

The current system discourages anyone who was unable to get BM sets pre 1.2. Penalities are too harsh which has made PVP a big pain. Why break something which was working just fine? right now we are playing a half system because ranked warzones didn't make it in last patch. Why not just release it in full form rather than aggraveting current PVP player base?

 

P.S : The reason i made this topic here is because i got sick of general attitude of fans on SWTOR forums. All valid concerns are being dismissed as whining and crybabies. I know this website isn't a fan site so i am hoping to get more balanced thoughts on this. I would really appreciate your contribution and hope this won't turn into SWTOR sucks and BW is fail topic. Keep discussion free of flames please.

I repeat again i am wearing full BM gear and as of 1.2 i have stopped doing premades because i know it is unfair to those just starting out. i am not looking for welfare epics or easy loot either. I just want to know if others feel the same... that with 1.2 whatever PVP was left in swtor is going to end up dead?

 

edit; Ahh crap i couldn't keep it short now could i? /sad face

«134

Comments

  • MrSaltyMrSalty South Windsor, CTPosts: 39Member Uncommon

    good post.

  • Chrome1980Chrome1980 LondonPosts: 511Member

    Originally posted by MrSalty

    good post.

    Thanks and sorry for critting you with a wall of text. But there are so many issues that making small post about it is just impossible.

  • WraithoneWraithone Salt Lake City, UTPosts: 3,594Member Uncommon

    You make some good points. Its been obvious that who ever is making the design decisions over there, doesn't have a clue about the actual implications involved. WAY too many Dev's do not play their own game, so they make bone headed mistakes. 

    But over and above that. Bioware isn't really a PvP focused company.  Thus the overwhelming focus of ToR is PvE.  Unless or until they get some people who understand how such games actually work, it might be best to find a game with a PvP focus. 

  • wowfan1996wowfan1996 NonePosts: 719Member

    It's quite obvious at this point that BioWare wants to silently purge SWTOR of all kinds of PvP.

    MMORPG genre is dead. Long live MMOCS (Massively Multiplayer Online Cash Shop).

  • Chrome1980Chrome1980 LondonPosts: 511Member

    Originally posted by Wraithone

    You make some good points. Its been obvious that who ever is making the design decisions over there, doesn't have a clue about the actual implications involved. WAY too many Dev's do not play their own game, so they make bone headed mistakes. 

    But over and above that. Bioware isn't really a PvP focused company.  Thus the overwhelming focus of ToR is PvE.  Unless or until they get some people who understand how such games actually work, it might be best to find a game with a PvP focus. 

    Sad thing is that (speaking from my own server's experince) people who PVP outnumber those who PVE. Because PVP is fast and there is less downtime compared to PVE where you spend most of the time spamming for LFG. I dislike PVE in SWTOR and if simply moving on is an option then i fear SWTOR is going to lose a lot of subs.

    My own guild which has 40 active members and mostly PVP players would just have to move on? i can't accept that. We put too much time and effort into PVP since release.

    Choices are good but in SWTOR PVP players are running out of choices and options.

  • VesaviusVesavius BristolPosts: 7,645Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Wraithone

    You make some good points. Its been obvious that who ever is making the design decisions over there, doesn't have a clue about the actual implications involved. WAY too many Dev's do not play their own game, so they make bone headed mistakes. 

    But over and above that. Bioware isn't really a PvP focused company.  Thus the overwhelming focus of ToR is PvE.  Unless or until they get some people who understand how such games actually work, it might be best to find a game with a PvP focus. 

     

    Mythic?

  • HimemiyaHimemiya ''s-GravenhagePosts: 139Member

    Originally posted by Chrome1980

    Originally posted by MrSalty

    good post.

    Thanks and sorry for critting you with a wall of text. But there are so many issues that making small post about ir is just impossible.

    A wall of text has no spaces, paragraphs etc. This ain't one :)

    L2P TERA combat:

  • RefMinorRefMinor MyTownPosts: 3,452Member
    Originally posted by wowfan1996

    It's quite obvious at this point that BioWare wants to silently purge SWTOR of all kinds of PvP.

     

    Gabe Amantangelo, Galactic peace envoy
  • MMOarQQMMOarQQ BoogalululuPosts: 636Member

    Game lacks content? Just make the grind longer...

     

    Fucking brilliant.

  • CetraCetra SingaporePosts: 354Member Uncommon

    None of the developers at bioware understand a sh1t about mmo gaming. All patches since launch have left me disappointed.

    They are better off making singleplayer games.

    I cant wait for GW2 to kick swtor butt. Expect swtor to go f2p next year.

  • WorstluckWorstluck the valley, CAPosts: 1,269Member

    Well there is always the ever present rumor or guess that some of the people who designed SWTOR's PvP were yanked directly from Warhammer Online and we all know how they turned out.  They couldn't fix the open world pvp part of the game (lag, fortresses, balance, etc) so they focused on scenarios. 

     

    I believe that there should have been almost zero focus on PvP.  Bioware should have just focused on what they do best.  They have created a bigger mess with this pvp stuff then if it was never in the game in the first place.  It probably didn't help either that they hyped the pvp saying they have 'top men' working on it and saying how awesome Ilum is going to be. 

    image

  • Chrome1980Chrome1980 LondonPosts: 511Member

    Just have a look at front page. Granted there will always be those who will whine and complain for just anything but there are some very valid concerns and topics which are simply being dismissed as whining.

    http://www.swtor.com/community/forumdisplay.php?f=76

  • PocahinhaPocahinha cidadePosts: 550Member

    Bioware is totaly ignorant about what an mmorpg is.

  • CetraCetra SingaporePosts: 354Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Worstluck

    It probably didn't help either that they hyped the pvp saying they have 'top men' working on it and saying how awesome Ilum is going to be. 

    Exactly!! Bioware love to say "we have a dedicated team working on <insert watever> blah blah blah". but the end results always come out as crap. So much for their professional team. Bioware could have hired a group of gamers as consultants and achieve better results.

  • wowfan1996wowfan1996 NonePosts: 719Member


    Originally posted by Cetra
    Expect swtor to go f2p next year.
    Don't get your hopes up too high. SWG never went F2P. WAR never really went F2P either (since their endless trial covers such a tiny part of the game you can't even call it freemium).
     

    MMORPG genre is dead. Long live MMOCS (Massively Multiplayer Online Cash Shop).

  • ArkiniaArkinia Palm Harbor, FLPosts: 251Member

    Originally posted by Chrome1980

    Hi, i would like to keep this post short because i know long posts scare people and they won't bother to read it. I would like to mention some serious oversgihts and blunders made in PVP in patch 1.2

     

    - (1) No Penality for leavin warzones. Yes you can just leave as many warzones as you like if you are not winning.

     

    - (2) Harsh penalities on loss which ls directly connected to the above point and rest of the points below.

     

    - (3) Too much focus on getting medals. After 1.2 in order to get most commendations you have to get most medals which can be accumilated through defense points, killing blows,planting bombs, scoring goals etc. Although nice in theory to work as a deterrant against those who just want to afk and leech off others, it has failed big time in practise.

    Why? because if you are on losing side the best option is to turtle close to turrets and doors and try to get as many medals as possible. The end result is same people going afk but this time close to defense objectives.

    If you get less than 3 medals you get zero commendations, zero XP and zero cash. getting 3 medals net you around 15 to 20 commendations and to get 40+ commendations you need 8 or more medals. Result is that people are too worried about losing medals and there is lot more turtling than fighting. Healer and dps usually just rush to turrets and refuse to move if they know they are going to lose, so why not get atleast 3 medals? or go home empty handed.

    This problem gets more serious when you are constantly matched against premades in full BM and Warhero gear. You have no chance to win so either turtle to get 3 medals or quit the match..which takes us back to the first point i made.

     

    - (4) After 1.2 matches do not close down if you enter a warzone with less players. So either you toughen it up and keep fighting outnumbered or lose and go home with zero rewards or.... get measly 10 to 15 commendations because you failed to get enough medals.

     

    - (5) PVP weekly and PVP daily gives equal reward. Yes sir, 99 warzone commendations, 99 ranked commendations. Before 1.2 players used to get atleast 4 bags for completing weekly. Now doesn't matter if you put double effort in completing weekly, reward is the same.

     

    - (6) Huge nerf on cash from PVP. Now even if you hate PVE well suck it up, grind PVE dailies. There is no option or choice anymore.

     

    - (7) Insane amount of money sink in 1.2. Simple legacy gear costs around 500 to 600K for full set. Taking mods out of BM gear will set you back with 500K. Things like mail box in your ship and droids for repare costs cool 1 to 2 mill credits. Legacy unlocks can go up to 1 mill and over. Things like cutting your cool down on fleet pass can cost a million or more.

    Nerf to PVP cash has just made it a huge grind for PVP players. PVE players are still fine.

     

    - (8) Still with me? if you want to PVP roll biochem. Since the commendations have been nerfed and healers have been nerfed further. You will have to spend a lot of commendations on stims from PVP vendors for survival. Who would want to do that when commendations are hard to come by and you would rather save it for gear instead of spending it on stims and medpacks?

     

    - (9) Due to people constantly leaving matches, if you replace one of them or join in late and lost you will again get zero in everything. Apparently you didn't have enough time to win minimum of 3 medals by defending,  killing blows etc.

     

    So who is benefiting the most out of 1.2? people in full BM / Warhero gear rolling in premades. (Yes i have full BM gear too). I am all about penalities for loss and giving more rewards to winners but why put such harsh penalities that your progression comes to a halt which only further helps in increasing the already widening gap between those who are well geared and those who just started PVP at 50?

    Before this patch we thought BW is making right move and will help players gear up faster so that the only thing differentiates them is skill. I love progression and i love playing for incentives too but at the same time i would also like to have matches where players are on equal footing in terms of gear.

    The current system discourages anyone who was unable to get BM sets pre 1.2. Penalities are too harsh which has made PVP a big pain. Why break something which was working just fine? right now we are playing a half system because ranked warzones didn't make it in last patch. Why not just release it in full form rather than aggraveting current PVP player base?

     

    P.S : The reason i made this topic here is because i got sick of general attitude of fans on SWTOR forums. All valid concerns are being dismissed as whining and crybabies. I know this website isn't a fan site so i am hoping to get more balanced thoughts on this. I would really appreciate your contribution and hope this won't turn into SWTOR sucks and BW is fail topic. Keep discussion free of flames please.

    I repeat again i am wearing full BM gear and as of 1.2 i have stopped doing premades because i know it is unfair to those just starting out. i am not looking for welfare epics or easy loot either. I just want to know if others feel the same... that with 1.2 whatever PVP was left in swtor is going to end up dead?

     

    edit; Ahh crap i couldn't keep it short now could i? /sad face

    waaaaaa! j/k, I'm over there, as well. The only ones who will be left playing this horrid mess are the one's you just mentioned. 

  • Zeus.CMZeus.CM ZagrebPosts: 1,788Member

    So when this game is going f2p again?

  • ScribZScribZ Buffalo, NYPosts: 424Member

    Great post OP. This is exactly why I for one will probably not be back for much more of SWTOR. It used to be fun to get into a PvP match and do whatever needed to be done to help your team win. Now...if you are not concentrating on your own personal medal count your just wasting your entire day away.

    I even tested this out yesterday to be sure before I tossed in the preverbial towel. I played 9 matches, in those 9 I did the ole 'help the team' by tossing some heals, crowd controls, and generally helping to win idea. Of the 9 we won 3, and at the end of it all I had added 215 commendations to my inventory after 2 hours of play. The next 9 matches I said 'screw the team' and went in it for myself, who cares if the team wins or not. We won 2 of the 9 matches, and at the end of the 2 hours of play time I added 410 commendations to my inventory total. Sure I got more commendations, but I was no longer having fun doing PvP, I was grinding commendations and that was all.

    On my 50, who is already Valor rank 54, I was planning on doing enough matches to get my 750/750 pilot III scooter. But after this, I think its just not worth it anymore. 1.2 may have brought some good things to this game in other areas, but I honestly think it just killed it on the PvP side of the house. :(

    Oh well, at least there is D3 Beta to play for now until GW2 and TSW come out.

  • ArkiniaArkinia Palm Harbor, FLPosts: 251Member

    Originally posted by thedarkess

    So when this game is going f2p again?

    next Thursday 

  • hikaru77hikaru77 buenos airesPosts: 1,035Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Cetra

    None of the developers at bioware understand a sh1t about mmo gaming. All patches since launch have left me disappointed.

    They are better off making singleplayer games.

    I cant wait for GW2 to kick swtor butt. Expect swtor to go f2p next year.

    You know?, there is a lot of people who really like the 1.2 and the pvp changes, but they dont lose their time qqing on mmorpg.com and swtor.com. And plus they just give us a free month while we wait for the ranked wz. And gw2 wont ¨kick swtor¨, is a b2p game. 

  • Jason2444Jason2444 Kingman, AZPosts: 372Member

    How this game still has PvPers is beyond me.

    MMOs played: WoW, Star Wars Galaxies, Star Wars: The Old Republic, Guild Wars, Planetside, Global Agenda, Star Trek Online, RIFT, Everquest 2, Age of Conan, Warhammer Online, EvE online, APB
    Best MMO Companies: Trion Worlds, ArenaNet, CCP
    Worst MMO Companies: Electronic Arts

  • RyowulfRyowulf Greensburg, PAPosts: 668Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by hikaru77

    Originally posted by Cetra

    None of the developers at bioware understand a sh1t about mmo gaming. All patches since launch have left me disappointed.

    They are better off making singleplayer games.

    I cant wait for GW2 to kick swtor butt. Expect swtor to go f2p next year.

    You know?, there is a lot of people who really like the 1.2 and the pvp changes, but they dont lose their time qqing on mmorpg.com and swtor.com. And plus they just give us a free month while we wait for the ranked wz. And gw2 wont ¨kick swtor¨, is a b2p game. 

    What do those people like about the pvp changes, since the negatives look pretty bad?

    Or are you just supporting the game no matter that they do?

  • Jason2444Jason2444 Kingman, AZPosts: 372Member

    Originally posted by hikaru77

    You know?, there is a lot of people who really like the 1.2 and the pvp changes

    All 5 of them

    MMOs played: WoW, Star Wars Galaxies, Star Wars: The Old Republic, Guild Wars, Planetside, Global Agenda, Star Trek Online, RIFT, Everquest 2, Age of Conan, Warhammer Online, EvE online, APB
    Best MMO Companies: Trion Worlds, ArenaNet, CCP
    Worst MMO Companies: Electronic Arts

  • Chrome1980Chrome1980 LondonPosts: 511Member

    Originally posted by hikaru77

    Originally posted by Cetra

    None of the developers at bioware understand a sh1t about mmo gaming. All patches since launch have left me disappointed.

    They are better off making singleplayer games.

    I cant wait for GW2 to kick swtor butt. Expect swtor to go f2p next year.

    You know?, there is a lot of people who really like the 1.2 and the pvp changes, but they dont lose their time qqing on mmorpg.com and swtor.com. And plus they just give us a free month while we wait for the ranked wz. And gw2 wont ¨kick swtor¨, is a b2p game. 

    Yes people sitting in full BM and Warhero gear are loving 1.2. I already mentioned that. The same people who were busy farming gear pre 1.2 on easy mode. These same people who are in panic mode now because players are asking for old system back. Who would want to leave their gear advantage? why they were quite before 1.2 and now they are telling everyone that harsh penalities on loss are brilliant.

    It is sad that i put so much effort in my OP and you are simply dismissing it as QQ. The same reason why i stopped posting on official forums.

  • gervaise1gervaise1 .Posts: 2,083Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by thedarkess

    So when this game is going f2p again?

    They may have to agree any changes with LucasArts - depends on the agreement; they may simply pay LA $X and can do what they want or they may have some sort of sub based formula, the idea being that the more/less popular the franchise is the more/less money LA gets.

    It also depends what you mean by f2p. A lot of the 1.2 changes seem to introduce huge timesinks - which crys out incoming inst-win cash shop. Easier, imo, would be to make the patches paid DLC - trouble is they would have to be good enough to make people pay whatever $$$ EA ask. Not a lot of new content in 1.2 when looked at objectively.

    The other thing imo is introduce a small 'sub' for doing the PvP bit - like CoD; 6 monthly or yearly charge.

    Like Warhammer however the game isn't really geared to an f2p cash shop. And it has cost a lot of money - whatever the actual figure the payback is supposed to come from the subscriptions. 

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