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Maybe if we stop buying crap titles......

ZecktorinZecktorin Bloomingdale, MIPosts: 231Member

Then Devs would listen and make a good MMO. Rather than something that makes them some money for about 3 or 4 months then subsides.

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Comments

  • ClassicstarClassicstar rotjeknorPosts: 2,690Member

    Good luck convincing the majority of gamers im affraid where a long way from reaching that point.
    I saw this pax panel and my hope was crushed hearing all these developers reapting the same crap we already have in last 10 years over and over again repeating what next guy next to him already said they have learned almost nothing.
    Maybe ARENANET have with Guild Wars 2 i don't know yet, but we have to see and hopefully soon enough?

    If you look at a topic where many love dungeon finders i affraid where long way from reaching that point:(

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  • ClassicstarClassicstar rotjeknorPosts: 2,690Member

    For now i give Arenanet a change to proof me wrong. And also have maybe a littlebit hope with bethesda with may annoucement of maybe a Elder scroll MMO and hopefully a sandbox.

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  • ZecktorinZecktorin Bloomingdale, MIPosts: 231Member

    Originally posted by Classicstar

    For now i give Arenanet a change to proof me wrong. And also have maybe a littlebit hope with bethesda with may annoucement of maybe a Elder scroll MMO and hopefully a sandbox.

    Well a few very good MMOs do exist.  EvE online is really really good.

    To be honest though I dont think GW2 is gonna change the market... Ive played it and yes it was really fun, but nothing to get as excited about as people say. Alot of the gameplay is the same as Gw1.

    Its more fo something you hop min for an hour or two and logg off and find something else to do.

  • KakkzookaKakkzooka Waterbury, CTPosts: 591Member

    Originally posted by Zecktorin

    Originally posted by Classicstar

    For now i give Arenanet a change to proof me wrong. And also have maybe a littlebit hope with bethesda with may annoucement of maybe a Elder scroll MMO and hopefully a sandbox.

    Well a few very good MMOs do exist.  EvE online is really really good.

    To be honest though I dont think GW2 is gonna change the market... Ive played it and yes it was really fun, but nothing to get as excited about as people say. Alot of the gameplay is the same as Gw1.

    Its more fo something you hop min for an hour or two and logg off and find something else to do.

    Sure you did.

    image

    Re: SWTOR

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  • SorrowSorrow St Pete, FLPosts: 1,195Member

    Lech Walensa, an uneducated electrician from Poland, brought about the fall of the Soviet Union, through the power of boycotts and work stoppages. I mean if one average Lech can topple the might of the Soviet Union, you would think we could organize enough to influence a single industry.

    image

  • ThorkuneThorkune Eastern, KYPosts: 1,828Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Zecktorin

    Then Devs would listen and make a good MMO. Rather than something that makes them some money for about 3 or 4 months then subsides.

    I somewhat agree with you. But, if others are like me, they are always looking for that feeling they got when they first played their favorite MMO. I have been searching for it for about 2 years now and I buy everything on the market because of it.

     

  • grimm6thgrimm6th Overland Park, KSPosts: 973Member

    Originally posted by Zecktorin

    Originally posted by Classicstar

    For now i give Arenanet a change to proof me wrong. And also have maybe a littlebit hope with bethesda with may annoucement of maybe a Elder scroll MMO and hopefully a sandbox.

    Well a few very good MMOs do exist.  EvE online is really really good.

    To be honest though I dont think GW2 is gonna change the market... Ive played it and yes it was really fun, but nothing to get as excited about as people say. Alot of the gameplay is the same as Gw1.

    Its more fo something you hop min for an hour or two and logg off and find something else to do.

    GW2.  Its (and I think I am making a safe assumption here) going to be fairly high quality, fun to play, and going to have a lot of people playing it.  I think what a lot of people really want is an easily accessible game that they can play with friends.  The more friends you have in a game, the harder it is to find yourself quitting.

    If the game population and community of a game reaches a certain point, and the population growth remains possitive, I think it would be hard to imagine GW2 NOT effecting the market for the kind of games that come out in the future (4 years from now).  Those are some fairly big ifs, but I anticipate my personal level of enjoyment to be high, as I have many friends eagerly awaiting GW2.

    I used to TL;DR, but then I took a bullet point to the footnote.

  • CromicaCromica West Fargo, NDPosts: 657Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Zecktorin

    Originally posted by Classicstar

    For now i give Arenanet a change to proof me wrong. And also have maybe a littlebit hope with bethesda with may annoucement of maybe a Elder scroll MMO and hopefully a sandbox.

    Well a few very good MMOs do exist.  EvE online is really really good.

    To be honest though I dont think GW2 is gonna change the market... Ive played it and yes it was really fun, but nothing to get as excited about as people say. Alot of the gameplay is the same as Gw1.

    Its more fo something you hop min for an hour or two and logg off and find something else to do.

    It is really fun and that is the only requirement a game needs for me, what else is there?

  • DissolutionDissolution APO, NYPosts: 210Member

    I really dont understand why so many people think devs are responsible and do not have any new ideas. Very few devs, with the exception of the indie developers have a final say so in what direction a project is actually going to go in the terms many of you speak.

    They "Develop" what ever the investor agrees to pay for. Albeit they have control the technical aspect of what is being developed, they do not have as much control on what the final product is destined to be. They develop a product that is agreed on and signed off on by the people who are funding the project. Hence the multiple logos for multiple companies on games. X company developed it, X company paid for it. The payng company has more of a say in what direction it will go than the company who developed it because they are technically the grunt in the situation, while the investor is the boss.

    The boss is not a gamer, they are just businessmen looking at spreadsheets of whats hot and whats not.

    If the majority all stopped playing the latest and greatest and all started playing EVEyou would probably see more EVE clones. They dont though, because the majority of the playerbase likes these themeparks. That is fact. They accomodate the busy casual player who wants to sit down with little or no fuss. The hardcore gamer is the minority target. They try to create games now that reach the hardcore gamer and the casual gamer alike. Simply because its a good business idea. Whats garbage to one is gold to another. Right now, this models is gold.

    image

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member

    Originally posted by Zecktorin

    Then Devs would listen and make a good MMO. Rather than something that makes them some money for about 3 or 4 months then subsides.

     

    They do listen and make good MMOs. WOW is great and many people give blizz lots of money over the years.

    Plus, MOST MMO players do not buy ANY titles (crap or great). They play for free (and this is backed up by research showing that most MMO players do not pay).

  • DecadentiaDecadentia Saint John, NBPosts: 464Member

    Originally posted by nariusseldon

    Originally posted by Zecktorin

    Then Devs would listen and make a good MMO. Rather than something that makes them some money for about 3 or 4 months then subsides.

     

    They do listen and make good MMOs. WOW is great and many people give blizz lots of money over the years.

    Plus, MOST MMO players do not buy ANY titles (crap or great). They play for free (and this is backed up by research showing that most MMO players do not pay).

    Do you have proof of this?

    The game you referenced has millions upon millions of subscribers, that's not even taking into account anyone that's ever bought WoW before.

  • LarsaLarsa NurembergPosts: 990Member

    Originally posted by Zecktorin

    Then Devs would listen and make a good MMO. Rather than something that makes them some money for about 3 or 4 months then subsides.

    Devs DO listen. But devs don't make decisions, devs implement what business people tell them. Business people look at what sells. And the players buy, in droves, more than ever before.

    Players buy games that have an NDA, have no announced release date, have had no open beta, have a cash shop. Players buy it by the 10000s and are tripping over their feet to announce that they bought the game on these very forums. :)

    I maintain this List of Sandbox MMORPGs. Please post or send PM for corrections and suggestions.

  • ZekiahZekiah Aurora, COPosts: 2,499Member

    It's like asking junkies to stop buying crappy cut-down drugs. image

    "Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky

  • UnshraUnshra Hanover, MDPosts: 382Member

    Originally posted by Zecktorin

    Originally posted by Classicstar

    For now i give Arenanet a change to proof me wrong. And also have maybe a littlebit hope with bethesda with may annoucement of maybe a Elder scroll MMO and hopefully a sandbox.

    Well a few very good MMOs do exist.  EvE online is really really good.

    To be honest though I dont think GW2 is gonna change the market... Ive played it and yes it was really fun, but nothing to get as excited about as people say. Alot of the gameplay is the same as Gw1.

    Its more fo something you hop min for an hour or two and logg off and find something else to do.

    However if people followed your advice EvE would have never had existed, it was crap on release.

    image
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  • DissolutionDissolution APO, NYPosts: 210Member
    Originally posted by Zekiah

    It's like asking junkies to stop buying crappy cut-down drugs. image

     


    LOL. So, Ive been rewatching seasons of "The Wire" and its funny you say that. They were just talking about what you do when you have a shitty product. You rename it and put it in a new container and the fiends will come running back.

    image

  • ZekiahZekiah Aurora, COPosts: 2,499Member

    Originally posted by Dissolution

    Originally posted by Zekiah

    It's like asking junkies to stop buying crappy cut-down drugs. image

     

    LOL. So, Ive been rewatching seasons of "The Wire" and its funny you say that. They were just talking about what you do when you have a shitty product. You rename it and put it in a new container and the fiends will come running back.

    Lol yep.

    "Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member

    Originally posted by Decadentia

    Originally posted by nariusseldon


    Originally posted by Zecktorin

    Then Devs would listen and make a good MMO. Rather than something that makes them some money for about 3 or 4 months then subsides.

     

    They do listen and make good MMOs. WOW is great and many people give blizz lots of money over the years.

    Plus, MOST MMO players do not buy ANY titles (crap or great). They play for free (and this is backed up by research showing that most MMO players do not pay).

    Do you have proof of this?

    The game you referenced has millions upon millions of subscribers, that's not even taking into account anyone that's ever bought WoW before.

    Related statistics have been posted MANY TIMES before. Am i the only one here who knows how to google?

    (copy from an old post .. feel free to post other more updated research).

    http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/27581/Study_US_Gamers_Spent_38_Billion_On_MMOs_in_2009.php

    total MMO players in the US: 46M

    total MMO players that never pay anything: 25M ~ 54%

     

  • RefMinorRefMinor MyTownPosts: 3,452Member
    Originally posted by Dissolution

    Originally posted by Zekiah

    It's like asking junkies to stop buying crappy cut-down drugs. image

     


    LOL. So, Ive been rewatching seasons of "The Wire" and its funny you say that. They were just talking about what you do when you have a shitty product. You rename it and put it in a new container and the fiends will come running back.

     

    Rubbish, yellow tops are a paradigm shift in the west side economy, everyone was sick of those red tops.
  • Methos12Methos12 Maladis 46Posts: 1,234Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Zecktorin

    Then Devs would listen and make a good MMO. Rather than something that makes them some money for about 3 or 4 months then subsides.

    True, problem can unfortunately be summarized in two points:



    1. people don't really vote with their wallets and instead prefer to just bitch about things


    2. they want to both have the cake and eat the cake


    Next time you see a game you really really REALLY like thanks to whatever reason strikes your fancy, but also see how the publisher/developer is gauging the gamers with pricing, DLC or shitty behavior in general, make the sacrifice and don't buy the game. Problem is that most people can't do this for whatever reason. You can't have it both ways.

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  • adiktusadiktus Frankfort, INPosts: 128Member

    If we stop buying crap titles? That's easier said than done. It's easy to say we have to avoid crap titles, but who determines which is crap and which is not? Some games may be crap for you, but not for others.

    image

  • EliandalEliandal Chelmsford, ONPosts: 796Member

    Originally posted by Sorrow

    Lech Walensa, an uneducated electrician from Poland, brought about the fall of the Soviet Union, through the power of boycotts and work stoppages. I mean if one average Lech can topple the might of the Soviet Union, you would think we could organize enough to influence a single industry.

     

      Please, take a history class and pay attention in it.

     

      As for organising?  You are talking about one set of message boards that has been filled with 'disenfranchised' gamers for more than a decade.  What you read on these boards in no way represents what a majority of gamers are feeling.

  • Loke666Loke666 MalmöPosts: 17,962Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Zecktorin

    Then Devs would listen and make a good MMO. Rather than something that makes them some money for about 3 or 4 months then subsides.

    Nah, they would just stop making MMOs for good instead.

    A solid game people love for year still makes a lot more money than any half finnished crap and devs know this, the real problem is that games used to be made by gamers, now the best we can find are a few people that used to game a little like Smedley (woe is us), 95% of the people with any saying are suits that just look on numbers, Wows numbers to be more exact.

  • NaughtyPNaughtyP Edmonton, ABPosts: 793Member

    I haven't bought an MMO or expansion to an MMO in years. I guess I'm ahead of the curve!! :)

    Enter a whole new realm of challenge and adventure.

  • DecadentiaDecadentia Saint John, NBPosts: 464Member

    Originally posted by nariusseldon

    Originally posted by Decadentia


    Originally posted by nariusseldon


    Originally posted by Zecktorin

    Then Devs would listen and make a good MMO. Rather than something that makes them some money for about 3 or 4 months then subsides.

     

    They do listen and make good MMOs. WOW is great and many people give blizz lots of money over the years.

    Plus, MOST MMO players do not buy ANY titles (crap or great). They play for free (and this is backed up by research showing that most MMO players do not pay).

    Do you have proof of this?

    The game you referenced has millions upon millions of subscribers, that's not even taking into account anyone that's ever bought WoW before.

    Related statistics have been posted MANY TIMES before. Am i the only one here who knows how to google?

    (copy from an old post .. feel free to post other more updated research).

    http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/27581/Study_US_Gamers_Spent_38_Billion_On_MMOs_in_2009.php

    total MMO players in the US: 46M

    total MMO players that never pay anything: 25M ~ 54%

     

    Your use of a capitalized "MOST" is a bit deceiving, as the non-subscribers narrowly outnumber the subscribed. Generally if you want to talk about research it's good to cite. It's also a report that was done 2 years ago, games such as SWTOR I'm sure brought in some customers that don't generally pay to play (though the trend towards F2P is growing) I will admit I am a bit surprised by the statistics from that site, albeit I'd love to know how this actually breaks down, it seems to focus more on subscriptions...

    I'd be curious to know how high of a % of the "MOST" had purchased or paid in the past. They likely would only be able to do surveys on what games players are currently subscribed to (as this information is specific to what customers were subscribed to in 2009), previous purchases likely weren't part of this research. Which is huge in this argument.

    There is a good chance many of these non-paying MMO players have subscribed to an MMO before, and are choosing to go with a free one now. If anything, you've added to the counter-argument...the non-paying customers have pull. But I thank you for bringing this interesting article to my attention. ;)

  • jpnzjpnz SydneyPosts: 3,529Member

    Originally posted by Loke666

    Originally posted by Zecktorin

    Then Devs would listen and make a good MMO. Rather than something that makes them some money for about 3 or 4 months then subsides.

    Nah, they would just stop making MMOs for good instead.

    A solid game people love for year still makes a lot more money than any half finnished crap and devs know this, the real problem is that games used to be made by gamers, now the best we can find are a few people that used to game a little like Smedley (woe is us), 95% of the people with any saying are suits that just look on numbers, Wows numbers to be more exact.

    As a 'suit' I am not sure why 'suits' being in charge is a bad thing.

    Suits will guide the developers on making a product that people will buy.

    Why is that a bad thing?

    Gdemami -
    Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

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