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Im beginning to feel like a minority... more than before.

xDayxxDayx St Charles, MOPosts: 712Member

I wanted to see if there is anyone out there that carries my beliefs about how I wish MMO's were vs how they are today. Here are my opinions.

 

1) The AAA Themeparks of today carry no risk. You die and you respawn with all your inventory, over, and over, again.

2) Crafting systems should be deep. I dont want a system of having mats in your bag and hit 'create'. I want to mine metal, crush/wash the rocks. Put it in a furnace with a catalyst. etc. And maybe if I dont get killed during the process I will make my set of armor or whatnot.

3) I feel graphics of todays most popular MMO's are cartoony. I love realism, and hate flash and over-coloring, and overexaggeration of weapons, shoulderpads, etc.

4) I get frusterated by MMO developers who continue pushing out the same kind of product with a new gimmick here and there. Because I know that if they just put the PC focus-group crap aside and focused on making a detailed sandbox with all the proper tools that it would be truly epic.

5) RMT's ruin the competiveness in the world, even if its just looking cool because that can be a competition in itself.

6) Instances are retarded. Just open them up and allow other players to attack you in the dungeon you are in. Also dont make a beginning and end to the dungeon- there doesnt need to be that 100% of the time(think EQ1's Guk or even Blackrock Mtn)

7) Companions ruin the challenge. Not every class or skill build doesnt have to be able to solo as well as the other.

8) Players create a level 1 and they are geared already---rediculous. I want underwear or nothing on and a stick. I guess its time to gather materials so I can craft some pants and gather food or else I will go hungry or starve.

---ETC (Could carry this list on and on, and on)

 

Anyone out there like me? Are we slowing shrinking in number?

PS- A little background on me is I started with EQ1 in 99 and have played many themeparks and sandboxes and the only games that seem challenging and fun because of fantasy setting to me now is Mortal Online and Darkfall.

 

 

 

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Comments

  • CromicaCromica West Fargo, NDPosts: 657Member Uncommon

    Money is king and most players are to casual for almost everything on your list.  less casuals = less money.

  • BanquettoBanquetto CityPosts: 1,037Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by xDayx
    PS- A little background on me is I started with EQ1 in 99 and have played many themeparks and sandboxes and the only games that seem challenging and fun because of fantasy setting to me now is Mortal Online and Darkfall.
    So, are you currently playing Mortal Online and/or Darkfall? If so, what's the problem? Different games for different tastes, and you've got a couple that cater to your taste.
  • AoriAori Carbondale, ILPosts: 1,886Member Uncommon

    If you're just now feeling like a minority i wonder where you've been the last 7-8 years.

  • DannyGloverDannyGlover Portland, ORPosts: 1,277Member

    Its sad because today, we got an amazing video of The Repopulation where you can make a city in a persistant world. And people are falling over themselves about prepurchasing the latest themepark shallow combat fest.

    I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.

  • xDayxxDayx St Charles, MOPosts: 712Member

    Originally posted by Banquetto

     




    Originally posted by xDayx

    PS- A little background on me is I started with EQ1 in 99 and have played many themeparks and sandboxes and the only games that seem challenging and fun because of fantasy setting to me now is Mortal Online and Darkfall.





    So, are you currently playing Mortal Online and/or Darkfall? If so, what's the problem? Different games for different tastes, and you've got a couple that cater to your taste.

     

    No problem, Just feeling like there isnt many people out there like myself and wanted to guage the community.

  • AoriAori Carbondale, ILPosts: 1,886Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by DannyGlover

    Its sad because today, we got an amazing video of The Repopulation where you can make a city in a persistant world. And people are falling over themselves about prepurchasing the latest themepark shallow combat fest.

    because they know that game won't be released. Everything that sounds good on paper either fades into nothingness or arrives with so many flaws it becomes unplayable anyways.

  • garretthgarretth Chandler, AZPosts: 316Member

    Originally posted by DannyGlover

    Its sad because today, we got an amazing video of The Repopulation where you can make a city in a persistant world. And people are falling over themselves about prepurchasing the latest themepark shallow combat fest.

    That's cool.   Just because folks play GW2 doesn't mean they won't play Repop as well. 

  • DannyGloverDannyGlover Portland, ORPosts: 1,277Member


    Originally posted by Aori

    Originally posted by DannyGlover
    Its sad because today, we got an amazing video of The Repopulation where you can make a city in a persistant world. And people are falling over themselves about prepurchasing the latest themepark shallow combat fest.
    because they know that game won't be released. Everything that sounds good on paper either fades into nothingness or arrives with so many flaws it becomes unplayable anyways.


    awww cynicism prevails :(

    I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.

  • AoriAori Carbondale, ILPosts: 1,886Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by DannyGlover

     




    Originally posted by Aori





    Originally posted by DannyGlover

    Its sad because today, we got an amazing video of The Repopulation where you can make a city in a persistant world. And people are falling over themselves about prepurchasing the latest themepark shallow combat fest.






    because they know that game won't be released. Everything that sounds good on paper either fades into nothingness or arrives with so many flaws it becomes unplayable anyways.





    awww cynicism prevails :(

     

    Pssh well how many times has your carrot on a stick had razor blades in it? -.-

  • AxehiltAxehilt San Francisco, CAPosts: 8,690Member Uncommon

    1. Most players enjoy challenge (suitable to their skills) but dislike risk.  That's always been true.

    2. Crafting being deep is an alright request, although honestly I'm fine with crafting not being a full-on game unto itself as long as the core gameplay is enjoyable.  I'm also fine with pure crafting games.  The mix of game elements must be deep, but that doesn't necessarily mean crafting must always be deep.

    3. I don't mind art styles either way.  Anime, realistic, stylized, it's all the same to me as long as it's created with skill and soul.

    4. Certainly a developer willing to risk millions on experimenting with new types of core gameplay is the path to being the next WOW...but it's a path strewn with a lot of failed games (because innovating new core gameplay isn't going to magically be awesome; it's very likely to suck, actually.)

    5. While I've enjoyed having a cool character in a game, I can't say that it's ever bothered me for a game to sell cosmetic items. That's not really the important form of competition in games.  Players enjoy assembling the perfect outfit to express themselves, but the OP is the first person I've ever heard criticize the selling of cosmetic items because usually you can still look pretty damn awesome without paying extra.

    6. Certainly there are ways to solve the many problems with world gameplay, but instanced gameplay just happens to be a very powerful and very easy solution.  I've never played an open world dungeon that wasn't soulless, tedious, and downright boring.

    7. Definitely don't see the issue with giving everyone the option to solo.  ToR's issue was the lack of reward or convenience around grouping more than it was about companions.  If grouping was convenient and rewarding, I would've grouped til max level.  But it was incredibly inconvenient to find a group and the act of grouping was also inconvenient (due to conversations.)

    8. ...alright that's just weird.  Even a shit-covered peasant has robes (and shit.)

    "Joe stated his case logically and passionately, but his perceived effeminate voice only drew big gales of stupid laughter..." -Idiocracy
    "There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance." -Socrates

  • laokokolaokoko TaipeiPosts: 2,003Member

    I always thought people complain on forum are the minority.  The majority are actaully playing instead of complaining.

  • StonesDKStonesDK SomewherePosts: 1,805Member

    Originally posted by laokoko

    I always thought people complain on forum are the minority.  The majority are actaully playing instead of complaining.

    Tell that to Tabula Resa and Matrix Online.... oh wait you can't

     

     

    To the OP

    Either get with the times or realize your genre has been destroyed. Then find yourself another hobby

  • EnoshEnosh SulinciPosts: 140Member

    oh please, you have over 300 post, you know damn well what the people on this forum think

  • DibdabsDibdabs FelvershamPosts: 2,604Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by xDayx

    I wanted to see if there is anyone out there that carries my beliefs about how I wish MMO's were vs how they are today.

    You have several hundred posts on this forum, and you're trying to tell me you don't already know the answer to your question?

  • yewsefyewsef KuwaitPosts: 335Member
    We should realize that there are different sub genres for MMORPG.. One is currently saturating the market (aka wow inspired, quest driven, wow clone). We need more AAA quality of the other types like sandbox MMORPG or a hybrid one.
  • CaldrinCaldrin CwmbranPosts: 4,533Member Uncommon

    Just carry on playing MO and darkfall and have fun.. this is what im doing and ignoring all the recent MMOs and ones that are abotu to be released..

     

    I am having a blast in MO at the moment and dont see myself playing anything else, I will check out the secret world but thats the only MMORPG this year that im a tony bit interested in.

  • SythionSythion Salem, ORPosts: 422Member

    Originally posted by Axehilt

    1. Most players enjoy challenge (suitable to their skills) but dislike risk.  That's always been true.

    2. Crafting being deep is an alright request, although honestly I'm fine with crafting not being a full-on game unto itself as long as the core gameplay is enjoyable.  I'm also fine with pure crafting games.  The mix of game elements must be deep, but that doesn't necessarily mean crafting must always be deep.

    3. I don't mind art styles either way.  Anime, realistic, stylized, it's all the same to me as long as it's created with skill and soul.

    4. Certainly a developer willing to risk millions on experimenting with new types of core gameplay is the path to being the next WOW...but it's a path strewn with a lot of failed games (because innovating new core gameplay isn't going to magically be awesome; it's very likely to suck, actually.)

    5. While I've enjoyed having a cool character in a game, I can't say that it's ever bothered me for a game to sell cosmetic items. That's not really the important form of competition in games.  Players enjoy assembling the perfect outfit to express themselves, but the OP is the first person I've ever heard criticize the selling of cosmetic items because usually you can still look pretty damn awesome without paying extra.

    6. Certainly there are ways to solve the many problems with world gameplay, but instanced gameplay just happens to be a very powerful and very easy solution.  I've never played an open world dungeon that wasn't soulless, tedious, and downright boring.

    7. Definitely don't see the issue with giving everyone the option to solo.  ToR's issue was the lack of reward or convenience around grouping more than it was about companions.  If grouping was convenient and rewarding, I would've grouped til max level.  But it was incredibly inconvenient to find a group and the act of grouping was also inconvenient (due to conversations.)

    8. ...alright that's just weird.  Even a shit-covered peasant has robes (and shit.)

    Thank you for typing all this out for me. I feel exactly the same. Plus it came out far more kindly than I probably would have put it.

    While I do believe there are many fundamental issues with the core AAA mechanics (themepartks), the OP's post is a perfect itemization things nostalgists see as the 'the end of good games,' that are actually substantial improvements in a vast majority of games.

    Ten years from now the genre will be different, and the old timers will be different. We'll have a bunch of people saying stuff like "Why aren't games made like WoW anymore!?!? These new players just don't get it."

    It's actually about you not getting it. Your idea of a good game became cemented based off flawed mechanics. There is a market for you and you deserve to have games that cater to yoru wishes, but you are not who gets to determine where this genre goes.

    image
  • Loke666Loke666 MalmöPosts: 17,943Member Uncommon

    You are not alone, plenty like you here.

    While I myself don´t agree with you 100% it is still over 75% and that should be close enough....

    I for one thing don´t see why you want people running around in their underwear, peasant clothes or similar would make sense but underwear? AoC start out that way though...

    I don´t exactly like the death penalty either, losing gear or XP just add more grinding. Locking you out of your character for a while would be better (anywhere from 5 minutes to a day depending on how the game is made).

    As for realistic or cartoony graphics that is just a matter of opinion, I don´t care either way if it is well made.

    Crafting, instances, RMT and companions do suck.

    Companions is fine if you play a pet class though, a knight can have a squire if the game is balanced for it just like a ranger can have a tiger. And you can surely add customization, dialogue and whatsnot for a companion like that as long as the rest of us can choose to have a none pet class without that junk and it is balanced.

  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 19,974Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Sythion

    Originally posted by Axehilt

    1. Most players enjoy challenge (suitable to their skills) but dislike risk.  That's always been true.

    2. Crafting being deep is an alright request, although honestly I'm fine with crafting not being a full-on game unto itself as long as the core gameplay is enjoyable.  I'm also fine with pure crafting games.  The mix of game elements must be deep, but that doesn't necessarily mean crafting must always be deep.

    3. I don't mind art styles either way.  Anime, realistic, stylized, it's all the same to me as long as it's created with skill and soul.

    4. Certainly a developer willing to risk millions on experimenting with new types of core gameplay is the path to being the next WOW...but it's a path strewn with a lot of failed games (because innovating new core gameplay isn't going to magically be awesome; it's very likely to suck, actually.)

    5. While I've enjoyed having a cool character in a game, I can't say that it's ever bothered me for a game to sell cosmetic items. That's not really the important form of competition in games.  Players enjoy assembling the perfect outfit to express themselves, but the OP is the first person I've ever heard criticize the selling of cosmetic items because usually you can still look pretty damn awesome without paying extra.

    6. Certainly there are ways to solve the many problems with world gameplay, but instanced gameplay just happens to be a very powerful and very easy solution.  I've never played an open world dungeon that wasn't soulless, tedious, and downright boring.

    7. Definitely don't see the issue with giving everyone the option to solo.  ToR's issue was the lack of reward or convenience around grouping more than it was about companions.  If grouping was convenient and rewarding, I would've grouped til max level.  But it was incredibly inconvenient to find a group and the act of grouping was also inconvenient (due to conversations.)

    8. ...alright that's just weird.  Even a shit-covered peasant has robes (and shit.)

    Thank you for typing all this out for me. I feel exactly the same. Plus it came out far more kindly than I probably would have put it.

    While I do believe there are many fundamental issues with the core AAA mechanics (themepartks), the OP's post is a perfect itemization things nostalgists see as the 'the end of good games,' that are actually substantial improvements in a vast majority of games.  Improvements being entirely subjective, more accurate to say substanitally more popular, which isn't necessarily the same thing.

    Ten years from now the genre will be different, and the old timers will be different. We'll have a bunch of people saying stuff like "Why aren't games made like WoW anymore!?!? These new players just don't get it."

    Naw, I'm betting we'll see a whole lot of "goodbye and good riddance"

    It's actually about you not getting it. Your idea of a good game became cemented based off flawed mechanics. There is a market for you and you deserve to have games that cater to yoru wishes, but you are not who gets to determine where this genre goes. Again you confused unpopular with the term flawed.  Obviously the market for the current design is vast, and as is so often proven the masses frequently don't recognize what is good for them. image

    Unfortunately the train left the station a long time ago on many of the ideas the OP is looking for.  FFA PVP with high risk/reward was never popular and never will be, most folks aren't looking for that sort of challenge in their MMO's. (not even me). Same with detailed crafting, SWG was the pinnacle which will likely never be attempted again in a major title, just not popular enough.

    There is however probably room for more variety, and as more folks tire of standard theme park mechanics developers will experiment with alternate ideas what will likely bring a bit more variety but never take us to days goneby.

    Best thing to do is enjoy what is good about each new title, overlook the bad, and stop playing when they are no longer fun anymore.  It's what I do these days and results in at least 2-3 months of fun in most titles which is a better value than most single player games these days.

     

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
    "I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
    Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  • RazeeksterRazeekster Solon, MEPosts: 2,201Member Uncommon

    This is why I'm excited for ArcheAge. That game has so many sandbox elements it's ridiculous.

    Smile

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member

    Originally posted by Kyleran

    Originally posted by Sythion


    Originally posted by Axehilt

    There is a market for you and you deserve to have games that cater to yoru wishes, but you are not who gets to determine where this genre goes.

    The end.

    The cries of the disenfranchised not withstanding, the factual observation "that train left the station ten or fifteen years ago" should be sufficient explanation.

    If you're still tilting at windmills, N years later, perhaps you enjoy the tilting just a little too much.

    Q: What happens to teen rebels/non-conformists when they're forced to re-join society and become "the Man"?

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • RelytDnegelRelytDnegel PerthPosts: 261Member
    I don't necessarily agree with all your points but what I really hate about today's MMOs is how they are all the same. I love variety and playing games that really are unique, my favorite game of all time is a little known game called Puzzle Pirates and there really is nothing out there even similar to it. I fear FPSs are going down the same track as MMOs except CoD will be the WoW of the industry.

    Safehouse Gaming up and running at:

  • AntariousAntarious Greenville, SCPosts: 2,802Member

    Originally posted by Aori

    If you're just now feeling like a minority i wonder where you've been the last 7-8 years.

     

     

    Ya but um their account was only registered here in 2011....   now if they had registered toward the end of 2005 they would have no excuse at all.

     

    I'd never heard of this site until someone posted a link for the new place to cry/troll/complain about the NGE.

     

     

    *note*    To be clear.. this isn't exactly supposed to be a /serious response.

     

     

    Moderator's on this site allow certain posters to create endless troll threads. Yet "warn" people for giving recommendations... account *pending* deletion because.. why bother.

  • xKingdomxxKingdomx SydneyPosts: 1,541Member

    Originally posted by DannyGlover

    Its sad because today, we got an amazing video of The Repopulation where you can make a city in a persistant world. And people are falling over themselves about prepurchasing the latest themepark shallow combat fest.

    I don't understand why this is sad, just because people is going to purchase GW2, doesn't undermine the fact that The Repopulation could be popular in the future.

     

    what sad is that I just realise how badly dysfunctional the MMORPG population has become, you have to either support one game and only that one game.

    Its like the console war really.

    How much WoW could a WoWhater hate, if a WoWhater could hate WoW?
    As much WoW as a WoWhater would, if a WoWhater could hate WoW.

  • BoatsmateBoatsmate Springfield, MOPosts: 208Member

    I wonder if a lot of this is because Games try to cast a huge net and gather up both children and older gamers for maximum profit. In other words what we are talking about is, however you want to describe it, "Good Business Practices", or ,"Corporate Greed at the expense of Gamers". I put both choices in hopes of avoiding the usual run to defend one or the other if you leave it out. I know WoW the first year had a lot of the same players and Guilds I knew from EQ1. Then it was like someone on Wall Street threw  a switch and decided to start targeting ads and gathering up childrens' account money. The game was dumbed down even more, etc, and it worked. Soon the game was full of jump-button smashing children spewing their knowledge of drugs and booze on chat to impress, and soliciting attention with offensive comments and language.All the older gamers left, the normal ones. I see them now in games that children don't claim as their own. I have nothing against Pandas. Cute.

    Ballerinas are always on their toes. Why don't they just get taller ballerinas?

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