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Why go back to a mmorpg that gave a bad first impression?

nomatics856nomatics856 orlando, FLPosts: 214Member

Why cant these mmorpgs get it right the first time? Why is it when I see all these advertizements of mmorpgs saying return look at all our improvements, look at all our changes. You been in development for 4 to 5 years, probably even earlier than that, you have waves after waves of closed beta testing, open beta testing, internal testing, etc. Then you still release a half assed product  and then you tell us well dont worry about the crap now, we have so much potential, you as a player voice your opinion on the half assed products flaws and you get free month fan boys telling you your a troll (half of which wont even be playing after the free month is up and its time to pay). Then they say, well you shouldnt blast its flaws because it has so much potential, potential that doesnt get realized until  months later and the games half dead.

 

Then here come the banners, here comes the advertizements, come join us now, give us your time and money and see all the improvements we made. No, we need companys that need to start delivering on products at release, no nothing has to be 100% perfect it never will, but the rate and the quality of products being released now can be immensily improved.

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Comments

  • ValentinaValentina Los Angeles, CAPosts: 1,675Member Uncommon

    Because it's closed minded and silly not to try it out again if you're interested at all? I agree they need to deliver on release, but sh*t happens.

  • nomatics856nomatics856 orlando, FLPosts: 214Member

    Originally posted by Valentina

    Because it's closed minded and silly not to try it out again if you're interested at all? I agree they need to deliver on release, but sh*t happens.

    Thats the kind of thinking that lets company release half assed products. Eh dont worry if we dont add this or dont do this or dont fix that cause they will try it later.

  • elockeelocke Manassas, VAPosts: 4,205Member Uncommon

    I have gone back and been completely blown away by changes made.  Lotro and AoC as well as EQ2 are 3 games that come to mind in this category for me.  MMORPGs aren't like any other kind of game.  They actually CAN change over time and I fully expect them too and is one of the main reasons I love this genre so much.

    I'm hoping that in a year or 2 SWTOR and Rift blow me away.

    Now, granted, they should still aim to blow me away at launch...but sometimes there are dev changes, company take overs, etc. that alter games before and after release.  A lot of situations to take into consideration.  

    Last but not least, sometimes it's just ME.  Maybe my viewpoint has changed or what might have bored me before now I consider fun.  Much like certain things in life.  Of course, that goes the other way too, and I notice it in games like WoW where it was a blast 4 years ago and now...it doesn't grab me the same way at all.

    image
  • SukiyakiSukiyaki GreenwichPosts: 1,398Member Uncommon

    Good luck the world only works in extremes and people quit games only because the game is "utter garbage", "half assed", completely unsatisfied and feel raped by the publisher or whatever swings your mind.

  • DJJazzyDJJazzy louisville, COPosts: 2,053Member

    Well if we didn't then I doubt games such as WoW would be nearly as popular as they are now. When I first played it, it was the worst game I ever played up to that point. But it turned out pretty good.

  • dave6660dave6660 New York, NYPosts: 2,543Member Uncommon

    Generally people don't go back.  Has there ever been a game that made a resurgence after a bad release and a drop off in sub numbers?  I know FFXIV and Vanguard are currently trying but they will meet with failure.

    “There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.”
    -- Herman Melville

  • FrostWyrmFrostWyrm Tempe, AZPosts: 1,036Member

    Originally posted by dave6660

    Generally people don't go back.  Has there ever been a game that made a resurgence after a bad release and a drop off in sub numbers?  I know FFXIV and Vanguard are currently trying but they will meet with failure.

    I dont know about FFXI. They have the marketing and the fanboy base to make FFXIV work IF they actually can fix all the problems as they suggest. Vanguard, on the other hand, was a first and last attempt by Sigil, and is currently being run by SoE, whose reputation is less than stellar. They may have more trouble.

  • elockeelocke Manassas, VAPosts: 4,205Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by dave6660

    Generally people don't go back.  Has there ever been a game that made a resurgence after a bad release and a drop off in sub numbers?  I know FFXIV and Vanguard are currently trying but they will meet with failure.

    I can think of quite a few.  Lotro, EQ2, STO, AoC.  While they still have lower numbers they are pretty steady now.  Switching to F2P hybrid payment models has a lot to do with that though.  Sounds like the best way to keep a game alive is to offer this hybrid F2P model.  Funny thing is, it actually makes those games a bit better in many ways and at least gives them an influx of money to at least keep creating content.

    image
  • NevulusNevulus Miami Beach, FLPosts: 1,288Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by dave6660

    Generally people don't go back.  Has there ever been a game that made a resurgence after a bad release and a drop off in sub numbers?  I know FFXIV and Vanguard are currently trying but they will meet with failure.

    DDO.

     

    Really Vanguard and FFXIV will meet with failure? And you know this how?

  • MotokoHuttMotokoHutt GalashielsPosts: 49Member

    have you ever thought that maybe they release some games that way because they actually value the consumers opinion ? maybe they ran out of ideas & ways to make it better so they want the public opinion, at the end of the day Dev's are only people too, Granted much more higher payed people then me or you but people non the less, also any MMORPG is a forever evolving game & no one is assured to hit a home run on there 1st swing but with time effort & influence by people they might just turn out something good.

  • dave6660dave6660 New York, NYPosts: 2,543Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by elocke

    Originally posted by dave6660

    Generally people don't go back.  Has there ever been a game that made a resurgence after a bad release and a drop off in sub numbers?  I know FFXIV and Vanguard are currently trying but they will meet with failure.

    I can think of quite a few.  Lotro, EQ2, STO, AoC.  While they still have lower numbers they are pretty steady now.  Switching to F2P hybrid payment models has a lot to do with that though.  Sounds like the best way to keep a game alive is to offer this hybrid F2P model.  Funny thing is, it actually makes those games a bit better in many ways and at least gives them an influx of money to at least keep creating content.

    Those game did not make any kind of resurgence.  They simply stopped the bleeding.  After the small influx they got from going F2P has the number of players increased again since?

    “There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.”
    -- Herman Melville

  • dave6660dave6660 New York, NYPosts: 2,543Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Nevulus

    Originally posted by dave6660

    Generally people don't go back.  Has there ever been a game that made a resurgence after a bad release and a drop off in sub numbers?  I know FFXIV and Vanguard are currently trying but they will meet with failure.

    DDO.

     

    Really Vanguard and FFXIV will meet with failure? And you know this how?

    My magic 8 ball told me.

    Time will prove me wrong.

    “There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.”
    -- Herman Melville

  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 19,973Member Uncommon

    I'm one of those people, once I try a game and move on, I'm pretty much done for good.  AOC, LotRO and Rift are good examples of titles that were a bit lackluster at launch for one reason or another, and even though reports came back about the titles continuing to improve in quality, I've just had no interest in revisiting them.

    I guess because there are still so many titles I've never really had a chance to try, seems like a waste to go back and redo something I've already washed my hands of.

     

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
    "I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
    Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  • PuremallacePuremallace Phoenix, AZPosts: 1,856Member

    Originally posted by nomatics856

    Why cant these mmorpgs get it right the first time? Why is it when I see all these advertizements of mmorpgs saying return look at all our improvements, look at all our changes. You been in development for 4 to 5 years, probably even earlier than that, you have waves after waves of closed beta testing, open beta testing, internal testing, etc. Then you still release a half assed product  and then you tell us well dont worry about the crap now, we have so much potential, you as a player voice your opinion on the half assed products flaws and you get free month fan boys telling you your a troll (half of which wont even be playing after the free month is up and its time to pay). Then they say, well you shouldnt blast its flaws because it has so much potential, potential that doesnt get realized until  months later and the games half dead.

     

    Then here come the banners, here comes the advertizements, come join us now, give us your time and money and see all the improvements we made. No, we need companys that need to start delivering on products at release, no nothing has to be 100% perfect it never will, but the rate and the quality of products being released now can be immensily improved.

    You sound like a WoW player. This is typically what I see posted from them when they quit or talk about another game.

  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Manchester, NHPosts: 2,926Member Uncommon

    Good point.  I've never returned to an MMO that gave me a bad first impression.  I hated EQ2 and quit after a week or two to return to WOW.  I  haven't even bothered trying it again since it went F2P. 

     

    I do expect to break that rule at some point for SWTOR but not until they either add short wait time group finders or stellar multiplayer space sim content.

     

     

  • GolelornGolelorn Hiding From Social Media Peeping Toms, ALPosts: 1,099Member Uncommon

    Personally, I think its nuts to spend 50-60 dollars, be very disappointed, and then pay to go back. The company will have to offer me a free month if they expect me to try it again. I believe WAR did that, and I did try it again, but the changes were not enough.

    I will only give SWTOR another chance if 1) real changes are made and 2) they give out a free month to past subscribers. I have my sincere doubts on both, but especially 1.

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairPosts: 5,586Member Uncommon

    Because all these cash grabs came back to bite the developers @$$ and now they realize , maybe people really don't want to continue to throw money at us just because our name is Func....ermm I mean what ever rthe company's name happens to be.

  • ForTheCityForTheCity Los Angeles, CAPosts: 307Member

    Usually I will want to like a game and force myself too. Haha. There are plenty of games that I start off hating, such as LoL but eventually it grows on me. Now I'm addicted to it and want to play all the time. 

  • GTwanderGTwander San Diego, CAPosts: 6,035Member

    Because I can understand the worth within the *core* of a game.

    I did the MO beta test long ago, and liked it's very basis. Everything about it was buggy, and the community was the worst I have ever seen - EVER - but I occasionally do a free trial period here and there to see how it improves, and whether it's finally worth paying for. As is, I could if there was a way to chemically castrate it's playerbase. The game is nowhere as bad as it used to be, but most people won't see that... they go into a game with the sole purpose of finding it's faults. Like they are more invested in the idea of "why they shouldn't", compared to "why they should".

    I for one am very forgiving about a game's technical faults, but a poor community is enough to make me stay away indefinitely. It's why I no longer play Eve (after playing on and off for years).

    I also go back to Ryzom now and then, but it's hard to play with a nonexistant community as well.

     

    ~Again, people just WANT to hate on something to begin with. The DL is free, no barrier to entry, so why wouldn't they? It's much different, but a bit similar, to how nobody will pay for a game without trying it first - all the while trying to convince themselves that the cost for the full product isn't worth it, simply because they already got a taste, and spit ot out before any flavor can come through. So many people give up in the first 15 minutes... it's incredible.

    Writer / Musician / Game Designer

    Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
    Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture

  • NitthNitth AustraliaPosts: 3,684Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by nomatics856
    Why cant these mmorpgs get it right the first time? Why is it when I see all these advertizements of mmorpgs saying return look at all our improvements, look at all our changes. You been in development for 4 to 5 years, probably even earlier than that, you have waves after waves of closed beta testing, open beta testing, internal testing, etc. Then you still release a half assed product  and then you tell us well dont worry about the crap now, we have so much potential, you as a player voice your opinion on the half assed products flaws and you get free month fan boys telling you your a troll (half of which wont even be playing after the free month is up and its time to pay). Then they say, well you shouldnt blast its flaws because it has so much potential, potential that doesnt get realized until  months later and the games half dead.
     
    Then here come the banners, here comes the advertizements, come join us now, give us your time and money and see all the improvements we made. No, we need companys that need to start delivering on products at release, no nothing has to be 100% perfect it never will, but the rate and the quality of products being released now can be immensily improved.

    Has never been a problem for me because iv'e always gone in with realistic expectations.

    image
    TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairPosts: 5,586Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by ForTheCity

    Usually I will want to like a game and force myself too. Haha. There are plenty of games that I start off hating, such as LoL but eventually it grows on me. Now I'm addicted to it and want to play all the time. 

    Thats what happened with me for both Anarchy Online and SWG. I hate them. But they grew on me.

  • SuraknarSuraknar Montreal, QCPosts: 824Member

    Originally posted by nomatics856

    Why cant these mmorpgs get it right the first time? Why is it when I see all these advertizements of mmorpgs saying return look at all our improvements, look at all our changes. You been in development for 4 to 5 years, probably even earlier than that, you have waves after waves of closed beta testing, open beta testing, internal testing, etc. Then you still release a half assed product  and then you tell us well dont worry about the crap now, we have so much potential, you as a player voice your opinion on the half assed products flaws and you get free month fan boys telling you your a troll (half of which wont even be playing after the free month is up and its time to pay). Then they say, well you shouldnt blast its flaws because it has so much potential, potential that doesnt get realized until  months later and the games half dead.

     

    Then here come the banners, here comes the advertizements, come join us now, give us your time and money and see all the improvements we made. No, we need companys that need to start delivering on products at release, no nothing has to be 100% perfect it never will, but the rate and the quality of products being released now can be immensily improved.

    I somehow agree here, I say somehow because I think everyone deserves a second chance, but it is very rare when an MMO gets it right even at the second time around.

    In 15 years I probably gave a second try to an MMO twice, most of the times I give them 3-6 months at release, and then it is Asta la Vista and no turning back.

    The issue is of vision, core design and implementation.lets consider WoW, if you do not like its initial implementation, vision and core design you will never like it, because it will never change to something that you do, lets say you wanted a Sandbox game, it was not made with that vision, it does not have a Sandbox Core design and it was never implemented as a Sandbox game.

    So while, everyone deserves a second chance, the tuth is that no matter what improvements games make thereafter to try and "re-launch", it can only be small features, better graphics or performance improvements it will not be a shift in gameplay (99% of the cases).

    So why even bother comming back for a second try?

    That being said, companies will invest and try to get some players back who left for the little issues such as performance and graphics/animations, sounds or features (sending items though mail) and Bugs...but would otherwise may have liked the Core Game, Vision and Implementation.

    The reason many games launch with these issues, is due to Time & money most of the time, when funds are out you Launch to get some money to be able to fix the product and somehow try to make it thereafter, under Damage Controll.

    - Duke Suraknar -
    Order of the Silver Star, OSS

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    ESKA, Playing MMORPG's since Ultima Online 1997 - Order of the Silver Serpent, Atlantic Shard

  • jliew911jliew911 Boston, MAPosts: 6Member

    Then they say, well you shouldnt blast its flaws because it has so much potential, potential that doesnt get realized until  months later and the games half dead.

  • NortonGBNortonGB readingPosts: 279Member Uncommon

    In general going back to a subcription mmo does not last long, however now that Aion is free-to-play it's one of the modern classics that everyone should have a short-cut on their desktop to play as and when they feel like it.

  • dave6660dave6660 New York, NYPosts: 2,543Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by GTwander

    Because I can understand the worth within the *core* of a game.

    I did the MO beta test long ago, and liked it's very basis. Everything about it was buggy, and the community was the worst I have ever seen - EVER - but I occasionally do a free trial period here and there to see how it improves, and whether it's finally worth paying for. As is, I could if there was a way to chemically castrate it's playerbase. The game is nowhere as bad as it used to be, but most people won't see that... they go into a game with the sole purpose of finding it's faults. Like they are more invested in the idea of "why they shouldn't", compared to "why they should".

    I for one am very forgiving about a game's technical faults, but a poor community is enough to make me stay away indefinitely. It's why I no longer play Eve (after playing on and off for years).

    I also go back to Ryzom now and then, but it's hard to play with a nonexistant community as well.

     

    ~Again, people just WANT to hate on something to begin with. The DL is free, no barrier to entry, so why wouldn't they? It's much different, but a bit similar, to how nobody will pay for a game without trying it first - all the while trying to convince themselves that the cost for the full product isn't worth it, simply because they already got a taste, and spit ot out before any flavor can come through. So many people give up in the first 15 minutes... it's incredible.

    If you read anything about a game before going into it you probably are going to have some preconceived notions about the game.  I don't think it's possible for a person to be 100% objective.  But I wouldn't go as far to say that players go into a game just to find it's flaw and find reasons to hate it.  Life is too short for that.

    Technical flaws I'm also much more forgiving then most.  But they do have to get fixed.  Depending on the severity it should be sooner than later.

    The debate on how long you need to play a game before you can make a judgement call on whether you like it or not is completely up to the individual.  For instance, if within the first half hour I start having flashbacks of WoW then I'm done and uninstalling the game.

    “There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.”
    -- Herman Melville

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