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2 Minutes of Neverwinter gameplay from PAX

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Comments

  • ariboersmaariboersma Yankton, SDPosts: 1,802Member

    Originally posted by Fadedbomb

    snip



    Hopefully I can concentrate enough to point out the many hatreds that this video outlined for me as a whole :(.

     

    The following points off the top of my head, but may change as I calm down (or at least become clearer):

    1) [Cryptic]: Everything they have touched or made has been a quick "look how fast we can make an MMO!" with zero forethought put into mechanics, end-game (if any), or mechanics wise. What did Champions Online & StarTrek have in common being produced by Cryptic? EVERYTHING. From shared resources, to highly similar music (a joke in StarTrek Online btw), and even the interface is the same. Quite frankly, this is one of the larger points, but i'll digress from here. I can only express how BAD Cryptic is as an MMO developer to a point to which anything more is just added complaints.

     

    2) [Combat]: Combat in the NwN series has NEVER been linear, and more to the point is that combat in the NwN franchise has always been about understanding your character, skills, spells, and abilties compared to your enemy. I can GAURANTEE you that Cryptic is not doing ANYTHING similar to the "RuleSets" from NWN, NWN2, or any previous incarnations. You most likely won't be able to multi-class, and if you CAN it'll be so linear it makes SWTOR look like a God-Send comparatively. Believe me when I say, I KNOW Cryptic (Alpha & Beta tested BOTH Champions Online & STO).

     

    3) [Content]: A "majority" of the content for NWN:Online developed by Cryptic will be PLAYER MADE. If you go & look @ STO's new player content system that system is about 60% of the system developed for NWN:Online. In fact, that system IS NWNO's content system but only ripped out & put into STO for TESTING PURPOSES. That's right, they used STO Live Paying Subscribers to TEST NWN:Online's player generated content system a YEAR or more before Alpha even has started for NWN-O. If you've played this "Player Generated" content system in STO you know how limiting, and boring it can get since it's all "segmented" stories that have nothing to do with the world or other stories. There's only ONE or TWO good "Foundation Story Makers" in STO that are worth playing, and even then it gets pretty lame after about a couple hours of doing them.

     

    4) [Class System]: Again, this point bares repeating even though I touched on it in point #2. Cryptic don't know how to do combat whatsoever, and unless they hired the full NeverWinter staff on to "co-develope" NWN-O it's going to be another linear click fest like Champions Online was. Highly linear, no differentiation between characters, and classes that have no real evolution or thought process behind them. Poor, all around.

    (ps: I played Champions Online 3months after release after being "promised" by the staff they were going to make sweeping changes, that never happened! So I know all about this point.)

     

     

    All in all, I'm sure there's more to it, but after watching the video a second time that is Champions Online combat cut & paste with a little extra "effects" thrown in. If you want to play NWN-O before it releases just go play Champions Online for about week & then go play Star Trek Online for about a week. You'll see what I'm talking about (if you can stomach two-weeks of Cryptic Content I'll shake your hand).

     

    Sincerely,

    Fadedbomb

     

    1. I can't really say anything. My only experience with Cryptic is like 3 days of STO recently. It seemed fine but its very limited interaction.

    2. I think the combat is a great new way to make the D&D world fun for many more than the fans. I know I am not put off by the differences. They said it was going to be off the D&D rules and I think for now we should believe them.. once we have more info we can def. change that.. but for now... Multiclassing... here you have me I hope its in there.. it is a big part of that style. I just hope that they add suggestions for newer players or free ways to respec.

    3. Did they say the majority of content will be player made? I don't recall seeing that... the player made content in STO was a cool idea and I think it fits in well with the D&D world.. think about if it gets even a fraction of the fun stuff that Starcraft player made content gets! Now this is not an excuse to not make their own content and if they slack off there it will sure be an issue.. but again its so early to say this.

    4. The ground combat in STO was.. odd but not that bad for the time and obvious level of the games design. Did you happen to play the last D7D PC game that came out? Daggerdale? It was very linear and still really fun.. totally dumbed down but enjoyable. Until we know how this system is planned again its way too early to tell.

     

    Now I know you are VERY familiar with Cryptic but from what I have read they had to change quite a bit to comply with PWE... perhaps they will be a whole other animal led by them. I personally have been happy with PWE games if only for a short time and I didn't LOVE any of the worlds they were set in. I think this situation is like when I played the demo for Dungeon Siege III... holy cow was I ticked off.. how could they RUIN! one of my favorite game series!! I ignored the game for a year.. just finished it today and I LOVED it... all I had to do was map A & D =P I hope for both our sakes and those who love the series and rules set that they do a good job.. if they mess it up well.. there are other fish in the sea. 

    image

  • YuuiYuui KaunasPosts: 723Member


    Originally posted by Fadedbomb

    True, however Cryptic are Cryptic. They'll dumb it down MUCH further if at all possible to meet their "Target Gold Date". They've said numerous times internally & externally that their Engine allows them to product MMOs at an alarming pace compared to 4-6 yrs of other companies (they once claimed they could produce a "Quality" product in as little as a year).
     
    Cryptic doesn't care about Polish. Cryptic doesn't care about the fans. Cryptic has never cared about quality of content relative to the market or franchise they're representing. What Cryptic has always cared about is money & proving they can be the "fastest" to produce an MMO product that people will pay for.
      
    -Faded


    Except that this has been in development at least for five years. And so far everything seems to be quite faithful to teh lore of the 4th edition campaign and the rulesets of 4th edition campaign(that while being utterly horrible for pen and paper games, seem to lend themselves quite well for action mmorpg game).

    Except that STO seems to be going into a very right direction now that Cryptic actually has a budget and no longer has Bill Roper and Atari.

    Except that the game was delayed for a year to give it more polish. And the video quite clearly shows quite polished level of animation quality and design.

    # A GRIM, ODD, ARCANE SKY
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  • RemyVorenderRemyVorender Riverside, RIPosts: 3,265Member Uncommon

    Plays like Dragon Nest

     

    Played: AA, AC1, AC2, Aion, AO, AoC, CO, CoX, DAoC, DCUO, DN, EVE, EQ1, EQ2,
    ESO, FE, FFXI, FFXIV, FF, GW1, GW2, Istaria, L2, LoTRO, MO, MxO, NW, Rift, RoE,
    Ryzom, SB, SWG, SWTOR, TERA, TSW, WAR, WoW, WURM...

  • XAPKenXAPKen Northwest, INPosts: 4,902Member Uncommon

    I like the camera and UI, also the environments.  Combat seemed sort of sluggish.  Overall, not bad.


    Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now turned Amateur Game Developer.  I don't Forum PVP.  If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident.  Realm Lords 2 on MMORPG.com
  • GrinnzGrinnz Utica, NYPosts: 310Member Uncommon

    I don't know about it holding down the D&D old skool ways, but it definitely looks like it can fit the bill for today's type of MMO's....I for one will give it a chance....if I don't like it...I can uninstall....just like I do all games I don't enjoy.

    image

  • MephsterMephster Tyria, NJPosts: 1,188Member

    Well it was only 2 min but it looked ok ? Need more gameplay and info. :)

    Grim Dawn, the next great action rpg!

    http://www.grimdawn.com/

  • evictonevicton Warren, PAPosts: 398Member

    Originally posted by Yuui

     




    Originally posted by Fadedbomb

     

    True, however Cryptic are Cryptic. They'll dumb it down MUCH further if at all possible to meet their "Target Gold Date". They've said numerous times internally & externally that their Engine allows them to product MMOs at an alarming pace compared to 4-6 yrs of other companies (they once claimed they could produce a "Quality" product in as little as a year).

     

    Cryptic doesn't care about Polish. Cryptic doesn't care about the fans. Cryptic has never cared about quality of content relative to the market or franchise they're representing. What Cryptic has always cared about is money & proving they can be the "fastest" to produce an MMO product that people will pay for.

      

    -Faded



     

    Except that this has been in development at least for five years. And so far everything seems to be quite faithful to teh lore of the 4th edition campaign and the rulesets of 4th edition campaign(that while being utterly horrible for pen and paper games, seem to lend themselves quite well for action mmorpg game).

    Except that STO seems to be going into a very right direction now that Cryptic actually has a budget and no longer has Bill Roper and Atari.

    Except that the game was delayed for a year to give it more polish. And the video quite clearly shows quite polished level of animation quality and design.

    Cryptic hasn't changed that much when I played Champions Online they told me I'd have to wait till STO was released before they'd be able to go back and add more stuff.

    They just did a  dev mentioning stuff like Romulans would be deft not be comming in until they release Neverwinter.

    Its typical cryptic were currently tring to release this game, so the game your currently spending money on has been put on the back burner until that game releases. 

  • FadedbombFadedbomb Aiken, SCPosts: 2,081Member

    Originally posted by evicton

    Originally posted by Yuui

     




    Originally posted by Fadedbomb

     

    True, however Cryptic are Cryptic. They'll dumb it down MUCH further if at all possible to meet their "Target Gold Date". They've said numerous times internally & externally that their Engine allows them to product MMOs at an alarming pace compared to 4-6 yrs of other companies (they once claimed they could produce a "Quality" product in as little as a year).

     

    Cryptic doesn't care about Polish. Cryptic doesn't care about the fans. Cryptic has never cared about quality of content relative to the market or franchise they're representing. What Cryptic has always cared about is money & proving they can be the "fastest" to produce an MMO product that people will pay for.

      

    -Faded



     

    Except that this has been in development at least for five years. And so far everything seems to be quite faithful to teh lore of the 4th edition campaign and the rulesets of 4th edition campaign(that while being utterly horrible for pen and paper games, seem to lend themselves quite well for action mmorpg game).

    Except that STO seems to be going into a very right direction now that Cryptic actually has a budget and no longer has Bill Roper and Atari.

    Except that the game was delayed for a year to give it more polish. And the video quite clearly shows quite polished level of animation quality and design.

    Cryptic hasn't changed that much when I played Champions Online they told me I'd have to wait till STO was released before they'd be able to go back and add more stuff.

    They just did a  dev mentioning stuff like Romulans would be deft not be comming in until they release Neverwinter.

    Its typical cryptic were currently tring to release this game, so the game your currently spending money on has been put on the back burner until that game releases. 

    Bingo!

     

    Guess what'll happen when NWN-O releases and it's in a "Release State" that they believe can support itself for at least 6months? They'll go back to adding content for Champions & STO meanwhile stonewalling NWN-O players.

     

    I'll give you the fact that PWE has actually given them development funding unlike Bill Roper (horrible btw, hope he's removed himself from the industry) & Atari. However, the senior staff of Cryptic are still there, and their design decisions & choices are generally piss poor.

     

    As for the "Player Generated Content": Source

     

    Granted that source is much newer, and thus has been "fleshed out" more to express the idea. The overall premise was one I read regarding the announcement of NWN-O awhile ago from Cryptic. They clearly stated that the "majority" of content would be player created through the "Foundry" system that is semi-implemented in STO right now, and even that has extreme limitations. One of them, being that the rewards & loot system for the "Foundry" is not only limiting, but if you want anything worthwhile it has to be approved by the Devs first which can take MONTHS to fill one request.

     

    I'm not saying Cryptic hasn't been changed for the better by PWE (seriously, how could they become WORSE?), however Cryptic's senior staff are still at the driving wheel. I remain completely concerned by what I've seen so far, and my history with Cryptic Studios :|!

     

    -Faded

    The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
    Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.

  • GolelornGolelorn Hiding From Social Media Peeping Toms, ALPosts: 1,099Member Uncommon

    We'll see. Not super excited about a PWI and Cryptic venture. The only game I ever liked from Cryptic was CoH, and that game was very repetitive. PWI games are the typical cookie cutter f2p MMOs. They have an uphill battle in convincing people to plunk done cash. Especially after some of the bombs the MMO genre has seen recently.

  • EduardoASGEduardoASG AzoresPosts: 832Member

    i love d&d.. and.. man was i disapointed seeing that video.

    the graphics have no soul at all.. the dwarf movement presented in the video looks like a distorted version of the korean lineage type half elves running in a weird position brekaing their backs.

    the attack lights and bright flashes and crappy colors seem like coming directly from a console cheap game.. really sad with this.

    Maybe i had too high expectations for this one..

    ~ D R A G 0 N . S L A Y E R S ~ Aion, AoC, AC, AO, DDO, Eve, Eq2, GW, MW3, L1&2, RF, RIFT, SWG, SWTOR, TR, UO, WOW, WAR

  • FadedbombFadedbomb Aiken, SCPosts: 2,081Member

    Originally posted by EduardoASG

    i love d&d.. and.. man was i disapointed seeing that video.

    the graphics have no soul at all.. the dwarf movement presented in the video looks like a distorted version of the korean lineage type half elves running in a weird position brekaing their backs.

    the attack lights and bright flashes and crappy colors seem like coming directly from a console cheap game.. really sad with this.

    Maybe i had too high expectations for this one..

    Blashpemy!

     

     

    D&D products generally DEMAND high quality & expectations. It was WOTC's mishandling of their own IP by giving it to Cryptic that is at fault here.

     

    I honestly wish I were @ the meeting between Cryptic & WOTC to tell Cryptic to GTFO out of our office. WOTC had no business making ANY deals with Cryptic.

     

    :(

    The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
    Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.

  • BurntvetBurntvet Baltimore, MDPosts: 2,936Member Uncommon

    With Cryptic's name on it, I expected low quality and poor execution anyway.

    Looks like that is what is coming.

    Doesn't bother me, won't play, and won't pay.

    Just wish Cryptic would not keep getting the rights to good IPs, as they are not capable of putting out non-crap.

     

  • xDayxxDayx St Charles, MOPosts: 712Member

    Im so sick of devs making the same tired cartoony graphical style. One day Im going to wake up and 5 new mmo's will have be announced that day where the graphics and gameplay is more realistic.

    Seriously Devs. After GW2 and Neverwinter and whatever the hell else is already on the books, please grow some.

     

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,900Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by ariboersma

    Originally posted by ropenice

    Why the GW2 fans taking a swipe at TSW out of nowhere? If someone did this to your precious, you would flip.

    But on topic, the articles I've read about NW show some interesting ideas and some screenshots looked great, but this vid looked a bit generic hack n slash with few attacks or skills being used. I know they are still working on it, and many games are moving toward action oriented combat with less skills-used, but I hope they hav options so not every class is identical.

    sweetheart.. go to TSW forums to see my educated thoughts on TSW. His point was valid as in hey this game looks better than a game scheduled to be released in June >.<

    I'd caution to keep in mind the two studios both have questionable track records, FC for bugginess; Cryptic for shallow games that they put no time at all into pre-release in-terms of making a deep game. Combat animations aren't much in the grand scheme of things.

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  • YuuiYuui KaunasPosts: 723Member


    Originally posted by xDayx
    Im so sick of devs making the same tired cartoony graphical style. One day Im going to wake up and 5 new mmo's will have be announced that day where the graphics and gameplay is more realistic.
    Seriously Devs. After GW2 and Neverwinter and whatever the hell else is already on the books, please grow some.
     

    Really can't see anything that cartoony about Neverwinter's art style. Seems quite a realistic one. Certainly more realistic than GW II and even GW II i would not dare to call "cartoony".

    # A GRIM, ODD, ARCANE SKY
    # ANY GOD, I MARK SACRED
    # A MASKED CRY ADORING
    # A DREAMY, SICK DRAGON

  • XAleX360XAleX360 PescaraPosts: 397Member

    Originally posted by Yuui

     




    Originally posted by xDayx

    Im so sick of devs making the same tired cartoony graphical style. One day Im going to wake up and 5 new mmo's will have be announced that day where the graphics and gameplay is more realistic.

    Seriously Devs. After GW2 and Neverwinter and whatever the hell else is already on the books, please grow some.

     




     

    Really can't see anything that cartoony about Neverwinter's art style. Seems quite a realistic one. Certainly more realistic than GW II and even GW II i would not dare to call "cartoony".

    I'd say it looks on par with GW2, and they are both not cartoony. 

     

    Everyone in this thread is bashing based on preconcepts, those that experienced the game seemed genuinely surprised by it. It's not like Cryptic is evil people, their first game was actually very nice for its time and their User Generated Content system fits perfectly with the Neverwinter franchise. Try to be positive, it's going to be free-to-play, if it turns out badly there are plenty of other games coming out.

    Founder, CEO & Editor in Chief of Worlds Factory, a brand new videogame and entertainment online publication.

  • XthosXthos Columbus, OHPosts: 2,628Member
    I think it looks a lot like Rift....That was my impression when I saw it.
  • HorrorScopeHorrorScope Norcal, CAPosts: 612Member

    Originally posted by Sephros

    omg, the whole disappearing and reappearing behind mobs thing is so old.  Somebody friggen figure something else out.  Lame.

     

    You are kidding right?

  • FionFion Montour Falls, NYPosts: 2,351Member

    That fat dwarf looks like he'd fall on his face if it weren't for his momentum as he runs lol.

     

    I didn't like the video. It's NOT D&D, let alone 4e. I mean you cant even tell what class he is playing. Horrible horrible turn of events for the Neverwinter franchise.

    image

  • YuuiYuui KaunasPosts: 723Member

    [quote]Originally posted by Fion I mean you cant even tell what class he is playing. Horrible horrible turn of events for the Neverwinter franchise.
    [/b][/quote]


    Really I thought its quite clear its rogue.

    # A GRIM, ODD, ARCANE SKY
    # ANY GOD, I MARK SACRED
    # A MASKED CRY ADORING
    # A DREAMY, SICK DRAGON

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