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No more sidekicking up?

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  • SereliskSerelisk somewhere, NYPosts: 836Member

    Originally posted by Eir_S

    Originally posted by niceguy3978


    Originally posted by RefMinor

    Way to go, people are cheerleading Anet for removing options, grow spines people.

    They were previously arguing this was one of the best features.  You could go anywhere!  Do anything!  All at a low level.  See it all on your own timeline.  

    Yeah?  Who's "they"?  I don't remember anyone saying jack about sidekicking up.  People only really started talking about it here for example, when they said they were removing it.  

    That doesn't actually mean anything.

    Maybe other people on this forum didn't know about it but ArenaNet has certainly talked about it, and it was a reason for some people to get excited. It's even on the FAQ.

    "Also, to allow players the freedom to play together even if their friends are at a much higher (or lower) level, we are planning to implement a strong sidekick system, similar to that used in City of Heroes™."

     

     

  • DJJazzyDJJazzy louisville, COPosts: 2,053Member

    I'm actually disappointed by this. 

    Really this goes back to my argument that this game shouldn't have levels anyway.

  • SereliskSerelisk somewhere, NYPosts: 836Member

    Originally posted by DJJazzy

    I'm actually disappointed by this. 

    Really this goes back to my argument that this game shouldn't have levels anyway.

    Yeah, seriously. image

    This game is not one of vertical progression. But there are people that complained endlessly about there being virtually no leveling process in GW1, so they added levels in the second game to facilitate that sense of getting stronger.

    This was perfectly accomplishable by making the main determining factor of your power when leveling from 1-80 the amount of traits, gear, and skills you had access to. It was also why having sidekicking wouldn't inhibit the progression of a character in any manner, because you don't get those traits, gear and skills when you get sidekicked.

     

  • AdalwulffAdalwulff Sacramento, CAPosts: 1,152Member

    Sidekicking up or down makes no difference, and it certainly dosent take away options, if anything it adds options.

    Now you can go anywhere you want, help friends level up, help guildies finish a dungeon, gathering supplies in any area you want. All kinds of love here.

    If they take it away, then more people will roll alts. I dont see a problem here.

    image
  • BunksBunks New Port Richey, FLPosts: 960Member

    This actually makes me sad, the wife and kids were hoping I could help them level up. It was a great concept.

     

    Is this a way to make their xp boosting more profitable?

  • just1opinionjust1opinion Kansas City, MOPosts: 4,844Member

    Originally posted by Bunks

    This actually makes me sad, the wife and kids were hoping I could help them level up. It was a great concept.

     

    Is this a way to make their xp boosting more profitable?

     

    You can STILL help the wife and kids level up.  Actually, it logically makes more sense for YOU to sidekick DOWN to help them than for them to sidekick up and not be that level yet.  They would still just revert to a lower level as soon as they weren't grouped with you.

     

    Sidekick down to their level and run around with them helping them.  Easy breezy peasy pie.

    President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club

  • just1opinionjust1opinion Kansas City, MOPosts: 4,844Member

    Originally posted by Zzad

    Originally posted by Xthos


    Originally posted by RefMinor

    Way to go, people are cheerleading Anet for removing options, grow spines people.

     I don't hang on every word ANET says, I haven't even looked at the 'leaked' cash shop list...I knew about sidekicking up in PvP...Which I am fine with, and sidekicking down in PvE....Didn't know they were going to sidekick up in PvE....I don't like the option, so sorry I am not upset and raging that something I don't even like is not going to be done now...

    I am fine with sidekicking up in PvP, I would be fine if they didn't sidekick up in pvp.....I rather like the idea of sidekicking down in PvE, as I am often in the position of playing down to friends and it sucks and is boring after a bit...Now I can play normal and play with lower level people....I don't really need or want to be able to get to all PvE content from day 1...

    Now if this was a feature I wanted, I wouldn't be happy....But its not...

    +1

    think the same

     +1 again

    President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club

  • BunksBunks New Port Richey, FLPosts: 960Member

    Originally posted by just1opinion

    Originally posted by Bunks

    This actually makes me sad, the wife and kids were hoping I could help them level up. It was a great concept.

     

    Is this a way to make their xp boosting more profitable?

     

    You can STILL help the wife and kids level up.  Actually, it logically makes more sense for YOU to sidekick DOWN to help them than for them to sidekick up and not be that level yet.  They would still just revert to a lower level as soon as they weren't grouped with you.

     

    Sidekick down to their level and run around with them helping them.  Easy breezy peasy pie.

    There is a negative here. It makes me have to go back into areas I already obtained skill points from. I was hoping the wife could just join me in the higher level areas and then go back at her leisure to do the lower areas alone. As for my kids, heck, I was hoping to tag along on his coattails :)

  • TardcoreTardcore MinskPosts: 2,325Member

    Originally posted by just1opinion

    Originally posted by Bunks

    This actually makes me sad, the wife and kids were hoping I could help them level up. It was a great concept.

     

    Is this a way to make their xp boosting more profitable?

     

    You can STILL help the wife and kids level up.  Actually, it logically makes more sense for YOU to sidekick DOWN to help them than for them to sidekick up and not be that level yet.  They would still just revert to a lower level as soon as they weren't grouped with you.

     

    Sidekick down to their level and run around with them helping them.  Easy breezy peasy pie.

    Yeah Bunks, it just makes so much sense that you should have to drag your already leveled character back to areas you've already been through, with the added benefit of being reduced back to 3rd grade wussy level for your effort. Personally I see some low levels gaining the confidence to take on more dangerous monsters from the inpiration of working with a more experinced companion, no more silly than a high level reverting to a pipsqueak just because he crossed some invisible line in the sand.

    FFS people! You keep clamoring for a game company to get some new ideas but when they do you clamor for them to turn it right back into the same buttf*ck-a-thon as every other level based game. Its a good thing there isn't a deidcated healer class in GW2 beacuse it would just be yet another cloth wearing, no edged weapon, D&D based cleric like every other damn game immemorial.

    What I really don't get about people saying that sidekicking up makes no sense, is you go do exactly the same f*cking thing in the Mists. If it is a bad idea in one area of the game then it should be the same for others.

    image

    "Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "

  • BunksBunks New Port Richey, FLPosts: 960Member

    Originally posted by Tardcore

    Originally posted by just1opinion


    Originally posted by Bunks

    This actually makes me sad, the wife and kids were hoping I could help them level up. It was a great concept.

     

    Is this a way to make their xp boosting more profitable?

     

    You can STILL help the wife and kids level up.  Actually, it logically makes more sense for YOU to sidekick DOWN to help them than for them to sidekick up and not be that level yet.  They would still just revert to a lower level as soon as they weren't grouped with you.

     

    Sidekick down to their level and run around with them helping them.  Easy breezy peasy pie.

    Yeah Bunks, it just makes so much sense that you should have to drag your already leveled character back to areas you've already been through, with the added benefit of being reduced back to 3rd grade wussy level for your effort. Personally I see some low levels gaining the confidence to take on more dangerous monsters from the inpiration of working with a more experinced companion, no more silly than a high level reverting to a pipsqueak just because he crossed some invisible line in the sand.

    FFS people! You keep clamoring for a game company to get some new ideas but when they do you clamor for them to turn it right back into the same buttf*ck-a-thon as every other level based game. Its a good thing there isn't a deidcated healer class in GW2 beacuse it would just be yet another cloth wearing, no edged weapon, D&D based cleric like every other damn game immemorial.

    What I really don't get about people saying that sidekicking up makes no sense, is you go do exactly the same f*cking thing in the Mists. If it is a bad idea in one area of the game then it should be the same for others.

    I think you're overreacting a bit here. The idea was a good one and it made me feel like I didnt have to sacrifice my own game time to help out someone else. Bottom line is, I liked the idea, it made me and the family have something to look foward too. Now its gone. Too bad but I was hoping for it to be in game.

  • BetakodoBetakodo Poor land, FLPosts: 338Member

    Still is in the game, Bunks. Only to the tune of you paying real world cash for exp buffs instead of side kicking up. Funny, they remove sidekicking up for PvE saying it removes the feeling of challenge, but what do exp buffs do? Pretty much the same thing, except it's not instant so they can keep milking you every time you want to catch up.

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,221Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by just1opinion

    Originally posted by Bunks

    This actually makes me sad, the wife and kids were hoping I could help them level up. It was a great concept.

     

    Is this a way to make their xp boosting more profitable?

    You can STILL help the wife and kids level up.  Actually, it logically makes more sense for YOU to sidekick DOWN to help them than for them to sidekick up and not be that level yet.  They would still just revert to a lower level as soon as they weren't grouped with you.

    Sidekick down to their level and run around with them helping them.  Easy breezy peasy pie.

    I love logic.  Please explain to me, logically, how it makes more sense for the high level player to sidekick down, but not the low level player to sidekick up?  This is especially puzzling to me as the sidekick up system is stil in place for WvW.  In a game where levels and gear are supposed to have minimal influence in content consumption I just don't get why sidekick up is now a bad idea.

  • evictonevicton Warren, PAPosts: 398Member

    Originally posted by Distopia

    Originally posted by niceguy3978


    Originally posted by RefMinor

    Way to go, people are cheerleading Anet for removing options, grow spines people.

    They were previously arguing this was one of the best features.  You could go anywhere!  Do anything!  All at a low level.  See it all on your own timeline.  

    TBH I don't remember any talk about this as much as they talked about deleveling to play with friends, I didn't even know this was planned until this thread, I knew about PVP up-leveling, but not PVE.

    Well I certainly do, it was in almost every cash shop thread as soon as the items were leaked. There tons of posts on how people who bought xp potions would have to be stupid because of this feature. They also were stating there was no clear advantage to being a level 80 because I low level could get to the same content in pve via the sidekicking up feature.

    This was one of those great features that showed ANet really understood what people wanted and where changing the way MMOs were played.

    Its funny how a few weeks changes things..

  • BunksBunks New Port Richey, FLPosts: 960Member

    Let me say it this way, at the core, I am an explorer first and a hard core pvper second. Once i have been in an area, I usually dont go back there unless I want to find something hidden. Sidekick up, was just a convenience to me, it made helping others easier. Now its gone. Oh well. Not crying about it, just saying it was a feature I was looking foward to.

     

  • evictonevicton Warren, PAPosts: 398Member

    Originally posted by Bunks

    Let me say it this way, at the core, I am an explorer first and a hard core pvper second. Once i have been in an area, I usually dont go back there unless I want to find something hidden. Sidekick up, was just a convenience to me, it made helping others easier. Now its gone. Oh well. Not crying about it, just saying it was a feature I was looking foward to.

     

    It was a cool idea, removing it doesn't really make the game worse. But by removing it, they also made a cash shop item more attractive and that concerns me more then the removing of the feature itself.

    If there was clear indication as to why they had to remove it I'd be a little less concerned, instead we have a feature gone for balance issues, but its still in the game in wvwvw, a cash shop item who's value just increased even if by a little bit.

     

  • MeowheadMeowhead New Carlisle, INPosts: 3,716Member

    For what it's worth, this is one of those decisions that Arenanet has made that upsets me.  I was ALL over sidekicking, because ALL my friends outlevel me, and I didn't feel like constantly dragging them down to hang out with me (SOmetimes it's nice to visit my friends)

    I mean, overall I still enjoy Guild Wars 2, and it's not the worst thing they could ever do, but, well, obviously not EVERYBODY is going to be happy with every decision.

    It's just one of those design decision things.  Some people were bitching about sidekicking up in PvE a long time ago, and now they're more happy and I'm less happy.  I'll learn to live with it!  Taken as a whole, I'm still in favor of most GW2 game design.

  • HoosierDaddyHoosierDaddy Saint Petersburg, FLPosts: 6Member

    Everyone can go PVP at any level and show off their skills or lack there of on an even playing field.  Level 10 against level 80. Who is who's daddy now? you dig?

    Now the PVE portion needs protected from level 80 toons downing the early dynamic event bosses with 1 or 2 shots for example, thus taking away the game experience from lowbies. 

    Level 10 toons in level 80 PVE areas would make no sense to me.  Just like in other MMOs you should die very quickly.  I think it's ArenNets intent as well, to keep us in a storyline and do "A" zone then "B" zone and maybe skip some zones along the way to go back to later(scaled down of course)

    Now microtransactions, everyone's favorite topic, may have items allowing you to achieve level 80 quicker in order to play the harder content with friends or family.  We shall see.  But they can always come back to your zone and assist(scaled down of course)  The carrot dangling in front of us will be the level 80 zone content.  We will either PLAY or PAY our way there.

    Another idea that intrigues me is taking 4 other level 80 toons to a level 20 or 30 dungeon and it still being fun without being too freakin' easy thus making it BORING!  Even if I've been there before it would still be a challenge. 

    I also like the idea of friends helping friends in lower zones/dungeons with lowbies actually contributing instead of hiding behind a pally tank, on the shoulders of a gnome priest or in GW2, behind the Charzooka blasts. 

  • VowOfSilenceVowOfSilence wheePosts: 575Member

    Originally posted by evicton

    If there was clear indication as to why they had to remove it I'd be a little less concerned, instead we have a feature gone for balance issues

    The Anet guy said they want you to hit a power barrier. That makes me even more concerned.

    Nobody said it had anything to do with balance issues. Fanboys just made that up.

     

    edit: to quote him:

    the reason we don’t have it is because when we were going through the game we thought one of the really important moments in the game was kind of that moment where you ran into something and you weren’t quite powerful enough to overcome it

    Hype train -> Reality

  • MeowheadMeowhead New Carlisle, INPosts: 3,716Member

    Originally posted by VowOfSilence

    Originally posted by evicton

    If there was clear indication as to why they had to remove it I'd be a little less concerned, instead we have a feature gone for balance issues

    The Anet guy said they want you to hit a power barrier. That makes me even more concerned.

    Nobody said it had anything to do with balance issues. Fanboys just made that up.

     

    edit: to quote him:

    the reason we don’t have it is because when we were going through the game we thought one of the really important moments in the game was kind of that moment where you ran into something and you weren’t quite powerful enough to overcome it

    A lot of people LIKE that sort of thing, to be honest.  Like, a lot.

    I mean, I even like the whole feel of 'oh shit, I can't beat this'  (come back later) 'Yeah!  Eat my awesome double leveled powers!'.

    ... I don't like it as much as being able to play more freely with my friends, but I guess I can console myself with the superficial feeling of RPG progression?  Sort of like playing the lotto and thinking you have the winning ticket and then finding out you misread two numbers and you get 5 bucks. :c

  • TardcoreTardcore MinskPosts: 2,325Member

    Originally posted by Meowhead

    Originally posted by VowOfSilence


    Originally posted by evicton

    If there was clear indication as to why they had to remove it I'd be a little less concerned, instead we have a feature gone for balance issues

    The Anet guy said they want you to hit a power barrier. That makes me even more concerned.

    Nobody said it had anything to do with balance issues. Fanboys just made that up.

     

    edit: to quote him:

    the reason we don’t have it is because when we were going through the game we thought one of the really important moments in the game was kind of that moment where you ran into something and you weren’t quite powerful enough to overcome it

    A lot of people LIKE that sort of thing, to be honest.  Like, a lot.

    I mean, I even like the whole feel of 'oh shit, I can't beat this'  (come back later) 'Yeah!  Eat my awesome double leveled powers!'.

    ... I don't like it as much as being able to play more freely with my friends, but I guess I can console myself with the superficial feeling of RPG progression?  Sort of like playing the lotto and thinking you have the winning ticket and then finding out you misread two numbers and you get 5 bucks. :c

    Yeah, see this is how I feel. I was most looking forward to GW2 because it seemed to offer something different than the same old, same old. If it isn't, whats the fraking point.

    image

    "Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "

  • e1eplayere1eplayer Tallahassee, FLPosts: 23Member

    Originally posted by HoosierDaddy

    Everyone can go PVP at any level and show off their skills or lack there of on an even playing field.  Level 10 against level 80. Who is who's daddy now? you dig?

    Now the PVE portion needs protected from level 80 toons downing the early dynamic event bosses with 1 or 2 shots for example, thus taking away the game experience from lowbies. 

    Level 10 toons in level 80 PVE areas would make no sense to me.  Just like in other MMOs you should die very quickly.  I think it's ArenNets intent as well, to keep us in a storyline and do "A" zone then "B" zone and maybe skip some zones along the way to go back to later(scaled down of course)

    Now microtransactions, everyone's favorite topic, may have items allowing you to achieve level 80 quicker in order to play the harder content with friends or family.  We shall see.  But they can always come back to your zone and assist(scaled down of course)

    +1.

     

    I think it's a great feature EITHER way it goes (scale up, scale down, etc.). MOST games don't even have this feature included. So enjoy/use what's given or play the 100s of alternatives.

    I guess I don't see the big deal . WHY skip content here or in any game for that matter? Want be level 80 day 1? Go pvp, show off your day 1 skills (good luck with that =P). Want to play the level 30 dungeon on day 1? Well play 28 more days and EARN your ability to hang in there and fight those baddies, learn your profession, learn your skills; your scaled down, lvl 80 buddies might appreciate a more competent team mate.

     

    [edited for mistakes]

  • KingJigglyKingJiggly Simpsonville, SCPosts: 777Member
    Serelisk... I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but in nearly all your posts you say that you don't know or that you don't understand.... It is tiring. While I do see your point, but for future reference, don't constantly say "I don't know" because it makes me question why your even commenting.

    Back to the main subject, this has always been a problem with me. In GW, it was extremely simple to level up, not only for how low the level. Cap was, but for what you did, the filler I should say, of the game. Granted I couldn't do it again due to lack of repetition in the game, but it was fun the first time. I liked the challenge of facing higher lvl foes, one step at a time. The lack of it doesn't bother me. If I have friends that are higher leveled, they can come down to help me. Me skipping up will ruin the immersion, and possibly any future events I go through if I wanted to help in doing story. If we wanted to just have fun, they can come down with me, and help me. So, it would actually be worse to have it.

    Just because the choice is there isn't the point, it is whether or not it is good for the game and community to have it.
  • VowOfSilenceVowOfSilence wheePosts: 575Member

    Originally posted by Meowhead

    A lot of people LIKE that sort of thing, to be honest. Like, a lot.

    I mean, I even like the whole feel of 'oh shit, I can't beat this' (come back later) 'Yeah! Eat my awesome double leveled powers!'.

    Oh, sure - but it's not like upscaling completly removes that. People who like to run into power barriers will get their chance regardless.

    if you upscale lvl 30 -> 35 and go to a lvl 40 area, you'll still have that power barrier.

    If you upscale lvl 30 -> 35 and stay in the lvl 30 area, upscaling indeed makes things easier.

     

    Is this additional power barrier really THAT important? More important than social gaming and easy grouping? For my taste, there's more than enough power barriers left in the game.

     

    inb4 fanboy example of scaling lvl 1 -> 80: Extreme scaling isn't needed, upscaling restricted to a ~20 lvl difference should be enough.

    Hype train -> Reality

  • Eir_SEir_S Argyle, NYPosts: 4,623Member

    Originally posted by HoosierDaddy

    I also like the idea of friends helping friends in lower zones/dungeons with lowbies actually contributing instead of hiding behind a pally tank, on the shoulders of a gnome priest or in GW2, behind the Charzooka blasts. 

    That's the great part to me as well.  I'm not saying I won't miss the upscaling simply because I'm a big fan of GW2, I simply won't miss it because it was never as big a deal to me as downscaling (one of the main reasons you've provided in your own post - I hated feeling useless when a higher level friend came 'round to help).  Sure it would be cool, but I think people need to give fans a bit more credit, some of them aren't defending ANet as much as they are admitting they didn't care in the first place..

  • evilastroevilastro EdinburghPosts: 4,270Member

    Originally posted by Tardcore

    Originally posted by Meowhead


    Originally posted by VowOfSilence


    Originally posted by evicton

    If there was clear indication as to why they had to remove it I'd be a little less concerned, instead we have a feature gone for balance issues

    The Anet guy said they want you to hit a power barrier. That makes me even more concerned.

    Nobody said it had anything to do with balance issues. Fanboys just made that up.

     

    edit: to quote him:

    the reason we don’t have it is because when we were going through the game we thought one of the really important moments in the game was kind of that moment where you ran into something and you weren’t quite powerful enough to overcome it

    A lot of people LIKE that sort of thing, to be honest.  Like, a lot.

    I mean, I even like the whole feel of 'oh shit, I can't beat this'  (come back later) 'Yeah!  Eat my awesome double leveled powers!'.

    ... I don't like it as much as being able to play more freely with my friends, but I guess I can console myself with the superficial feeling of RPG progression?  Sort of like playing the lotto and thinking you have the winning ticket and then finding out you misread two numbers and you get 5 bucks. :c

    Yeah, see this is how I feel. I was most looking forward to GW2 because it seemed to offer something different than the same old, same old. If it isn't, whats the fraking point.

    Bit extreme really. You can still play freely with your friends, its just they have to come scale down to your content, rather than the other way around. If they think they are too good to do lower level areas with you, are they really your friends?

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