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BreezeycoukBreezeycouk ReadingPosts: 82Member

So I've been away simply because I can't be ****ed with mission grind....

But then I got me a new shiny computer and after looking at all the naff games in Game I thought I would go for a MMORPG

but then when I come to look at the so called font of wisdom in these matters all I find are paid for ads and nothing "live" updated !!!

(Jezz people - get off your ass, scan for the paid for comments and revolt......)

I give you as examples.......

 

Star Wars Galaxies - At time of writing (4th April 2012)  still showing as online and charging $14.99 when it was killed on the 31st December 2011

 

Star Trek Online - Showing as available via Retail and TBA when it has moved to download and Free to Play / Store..

 

Star Trek: Infinite Space sowing as Q3 2011 - Hello..............

 

Star Wars : The Old Republic as TBA..................

 

Lego Uninverse: - Shown as TBA cost - I hear NFD ?????????

 

Does anyone still edit this site or is it moved to being just a adware posting ????

 

Jeez guys - I know the format is dead but really.....................................................................................

«13

Comments

  • fenistilfenistil GliwicePosts: 3,005Member

    Yeah amount of bad / outdated info at 'games pages' is just ridiculous.

  • just1opinionjust1opinion Kansas City, MOPosts: 4,844Member

     

    Your poll doesn't give enough choices, sorry.

    President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club

  • BreezeycoukBreezeycouk ReadingPosts: 82Member

     

    Apologies that it doesn't give the none of the above vote ( I forgot to add that)

     

    What other options would you like to see?

     

    My concern was that I didn't dilute the voting streams...

  • BartDaCatBartDaCat Renton, WAPosts: 819Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by just1opinion

     

    Your poll doesn't give enough choices, sorry.

    I agree.  It doesn't offer enough choices to be a valid poll worthy of "Focus Group" status, thus, we will not be able to fund your thread with more advertising dollars.

  • KakkzookaKakkzooka Waterbury, CTPosts: 591Member

    Originally posted by Breezeycouk

     

    Star Wars : The Old Republic as TBA..................

     

    Oh, is it out of Alpha? image

    Re: SWTOR

    "Remember, remember - Kakk says 'December.'"

  • BillMurphyBillMurphy Managing Editor Berea, OHPosts: 2,356MMORPG.COM Staff Uncommon

    Hey guys,

    Just popping in to tell you that you can refer all Game List information to Jim Moreno.  He's culling through the list from A-Z and adding new games as we get them.  Please be patient, as it's not exactly a super-quick undertaking when the list is 600+ titles now.

    Jimmoreno at MMORPG dot com

    Thanks!

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairPosts: 5,586Member Uncommon

    meh
  • BreezeycoukBreezeycouk ReadingPosts: 82Member

    Originally posted by BartDaCat

    Originally posted by just1opinion

     

    Your poll doesn't give enough choices, sorry.

    I agree.  It doesn't offer enough choices to be a valid poll worthy of "Focus Group" status, thus, we will not be able to fund your thread with more advertising dollars.

     

    As previously stated - I am concerned over splitting the vote - I had hoped to be present a simple choice (But I accept the error of not giving a "None of the Above" option)

    I maybe a little out of touch after not really visting the site for so long but any advice on how to present polls in future would be gratfully recieved to make sure I am in line with current thinking

  • BreezeycoukBreezeycouk ReadingPosts: 82Member

    Originally posted by BillMurphy

    Hey guys,

    Just popping in to tell you that you can refer all Game List information to Jim Moreno.  He's culling through the list from A-Z and adding new games as we get them.  Please be patient, as it's not exactly a super-quick undertaking when the list is 600+ titles now.

    Jimmoreno at MMORPG dot com

    Thanks!

     

    Dude - You can't update a list which shows 603 games (Your count....) in a couple of days?????

    I mean pleeaaaseeee.......................................................

  • XthosXthos Columbus, OHPosts: 2,628Member

    Originally posted by Breezeycouk

    So I've been away simply because I can't be ****ed with mission grind....

    But then I got me a new shiny computer and after looking at all the naff games in Game I thought I would go for a MMORPG

    but then when I come to look at the so called font of wisdom in these matters all I find are paid for ads and nothing "live" updated !!!

    (Jezz people - get off your ass, scan for the paid for comments and revolt......)

    I give you as examples.......

     

    Star Wars Galaxies - At time of writing (4th April 2012)  still showing as online and charging $14.99 when it was killed on the 31st December 2011

     

    Star Trek Online - Showing as available via Retail and TBA when it has moved to download and Free to Play / Store..

     

    Star Trek: Infinite Space sowing as Q3 2011 - Hello..............

     

    Star Wars : The Old Republic as TBA..................

     

    Lego Uninverse: - Shown as TBA cost - I hear NFD ?????????

     

    Does anyone still edit this site or is it moved to being just a adware posting ????

     

    Jeez guys - I know the format is dead but really.....................................................................................

     Did you hear about Rift being free for the first 20 levels?!

  • BreezeycoukBreezeycouk ReadingPosts: 82Member

    Originally posted by GeezerGamer

    Originally posted by BillMurphy

    Hey guys,

    Just popping in to tell you that you can refer all Game List information to Jim Moreno.  He's culling through the list from A-Z and adding new games as we get them.  Please be patient, as it's not exactly a super-quick undertaking when the list is 600+ titles now.

    Jimmoreno at MMORPG dot com

    Thanks!

    What about all the locking of threads that criticize advertiser's products and refering them back under one gnereic "catch All" sticky?

     

    I would ask if this site is run from America or somewhere else - I am from the UK and we have issues over Free Speech here whereas I still think the US has the First Amendment ??? (please feel free to correct me if I have the Admendment selection incorrect)

  • DecoyTrooperDecoyTrooper Baltimore, MDPosts: 239Member

    now I wonder if the hype score is working as intended lol, also over 600 MMOs listed, probably you can get rid of 50% of those games no one play

  • fenistilfenistil GliwicePosts: 3,005Member

    Originally posted by BillMurphy

    Hey guys,

    Just popping in to tell you that you can refer all Game List information to Jim Moreno.  He's culling through the list from A-Z and adding new games as we get them.  Please be patient, as it's not exactly a super-quick undertaking when the list is 600+ titles now.

    Jimmoreno at MMORPG dot com

    Thanks!

    It is understandable but quite a lot of games have information that is not-valid for years.  + some of them are really quite big titles (either past or still present) so yeah. 

    Just when game actuall release or change it business model or reveal it's business model or reveal it's release date ,etc - when someone is writing news about it maybe he could just check game info as well and write a note to person responsibile?

     

    Your internal organisation is your business and you surely know better and growing game's list not making this easier ,but really quality of those very basic information took a nose dive quite a long time ago.

    Many years ago when I was not registered I would refer to mmorpg's as a source often in my posts in other fourms or just when I was looking info myself.

    Not anymore - cause you're just soo out of date or sometimes even wrong :/

  • AdminAdmin Santa Fe, NMPosts: 5,037Administrator Common

    Originally posted by GeezerGamer

    Originally posted by BillMurphy

    Hey guys,

    Just popping in to tell you that you can refer all Game List information to Jim Moreno.  He's culling through the list from A-Z and adding new games as we get them.  Please be patient, as it's not exactly a super-quick undertaking when the list is 600+ titles now.

    Jimmoreno at MMORPG dot com

    Thanks!

    What about all the locking of threads that criticize advertiser's products and refering them back under one gnereic "catch All" sticky?

     I can assure you that the actions of forum moderators and/or our Community Manager has absolutely nothing to do with who is buying or not buying advertising with MMORPG.com.  I exclusively handle all ad sales for this website and no one else on this team has a clue about who we sell ads to aside from when they see banners on the site.

    What this is more about is a while back we decided to try and improve our reputation of being the website where everyone came to trash on games.  It just made our forums have this dark negative cloud hanging over them and it drove away fans of games that came here to interact with fellow players of a particular game - what we had instead what a bunch of angry players hijacking topics and filling up the forums with hate posts.  This is just not a very welcoming enviornment for new users or people that actually like the game everyone is trashing on.

    In the nearly 10 years I have operated this website I have never ONCE had an advertiser or game company request that I have our site moderated in their favor.  I have had a few shady game publishers (I won't mention names) hint that they would buy advertising if we gave a "favorable review" and I showed every one of them the door.  We run this site in that way and we have very strict barriers in place to prevent the Editorial team from having any clue as to what is happening on the business side of the site.

    While all you have is my word, you might want to consider that we have had probably 100+ people that have come and gone from this team as Editors, Community Managers, writers, etc and never once has any of them said we ran anything other than an ethical operation.  If we did not, I assure you that it would not be a secret kept for long.

    Happy Easter!

    - MMORPG.COM Staff -

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,638Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Breezeycouk

    Originally posted by GeezerGamer


    Originally posted by BillMurphy

    Hey guys,

    Just popping in to tell you that you can refer all Game List information to Jim Moreno.  He's culling through the list from A-Z and adding new games as we get them.  Please be patient, as it's not exactly a super-quick undertaking when the list is 600+ titles now.

    Jimmoreno at MMORPG dot com

    Thanks!

    What about all the locking of threads that criticize advertiser's products and refering them back under one gnereic "catch All" sticky?

     

    I would ask if this site is run from America or somewhere else - I am from the UK and we have issues over Free Speech here whereas I still think the US has the First Amendment ??? (please feel free to correct me if I have the Admendment selection incorrect)

    It's privately owned, so 'Free Speech' really doesn't apply here.  Also, if you look at any other page other than the GameList, you can see that the site is very current, with many up to the minute interviews and reviews. Stop by the home page and check out the featured items - there are some great recent articles about Gw2, TERA and World of Darkness. Also check out the videos, as they have some stuff from this weekend's PAX East already posted.

    Cheers!

     

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • BreezeycoukBreezeycouk ReadingPosts: 82Member

    Originally posted by Xthos

    Originally posted by Breezeycouk

    So I've been away simply because I can't be ****ed with mission grind....

    But then I got me a new shiny computer and after looking at all the naff games in Game I thought I would go for a MMORPG

    but then when I come to look at the so called font of wisdom in these matters all I find are paid for ads and nothing "live" updated !!!

    (Jezz people - get off your ass, scan for the paid for comments and revolt......)

    I give you as examples.......

     

    Star Wars Galaxies - At time of writing (4th April 2012)  still showing as online and charging $14.99 when it was killed on the 31st December 2011

     

    Star Trek Online - Showing as available via Retail and TBA when it has moved to download and Free to Play / Store..

     

    Star Trek: Infinite Space sowing as Q3 2011 - Hello..............

     

    Star Wars : The Old Republic as TBA..................

     

    Lego Uninverse: - Shown as TBA cost - I hear NFD ?????????

     

    Does anyone still edit this site or is it moved to being just a adware posting ????

     

    Jeez guys - I know the format is dead but really.....................................................................................

     Did you hear about Rift being free for the first 20 levels?!

     

    In fairness to MMORPG - It has tagged this as "H" - Meaning Hybrid when you hover over it - But still.....

    No detailed explaination of what that means.....

     

  • SakerasoSakeraso saugus, MAPosts: 45Member

    Originally posted by Breezeycouk

    Originally posted by BartDaCat


    Originally posted by just1opinion

     

    Your poll doesn't give enough choices, sorry.

    I agree.  It doesn't offer enough choices to be a valid poll worthy of "Focus Group" status, thus, we will not be able to fund your thread with more advertising dollars.

     

    As previously stated - I am concerned over splitting the vote - I had hoped to be present a simple choice (But I accept the error of not giving a "None of the Above" option)

    I maybe a little out of touch after not really visting the site for so long but any advice on how to present polls in future would be gratfully recieved to make sure I am in line with current thinking

    This site actually deletes posts made against certain games they get money from, I.e every post that has anything bad to say about Guild wars 2 they delete, No longer a free place to speak openely about how you feel on certain aspects of video games,

  • AdminAdmin Santa Fe, NMPosts: 5,037Administrator Common

    Originally posted by Breezeycouk

    Originally posted by GeezerGamer

    Originally posted by BillMurphy

    Hey guys,

    Just popping in to tell you that you can refer all Game List information to Jim Moreno.  He's culling through the list from A-Z and adding new games as we get them.  Please be patient, as it's not exactly a super-quick undertaking when the list is 600+ titles now.

    Jimmoreno at MMORPG dot com

    Thanks!

    What about all the locking of threads that criticize advertiser's products and refering them back under one gnereic "catch All" sticky?

     

    I would ask if this site is run from America or somewhere else - I am from the UK and we have issues over Free Speech here whereas I still think the US has the First Amendment ??? (please feel free to correct me if I have the Admendment selection incorrect)

    Free speech applies only in a public place.  When you are using this website you are in a private space.  I encourage you to walk into your neighborhood McDonalds and start spouting off political views, hold up signs, etc and see how long until they escort you off their private property.

    While we are bound to uphold your civil rights (like allowing people of all ethnic backgrounds, etc) we do not have to grant you freedom of speech...no more that I have freedom of speech at your dining table.

    - MMORPG.COM Staff -

  • YamotaYamota LondonPosts: 6,620Member

    Originally posted by Admin

    Originally posted by Breezeycouk


    Originally posted by GeezerGamer


    Originally posted by BillMurphy

    Hey guys,

    Just popping in to tell you that you can refer all Game List information to Jim Moreno.  He's culling through the list from A-Z and adding new games as we get them.  Please be patient, as it's not exactly a super-quick undertaking when the list is 600+ titles now.

    Jimmoreno at MMORPG dot com

    Thanks!

    What about all the locking of threads that criticize advertiser's products and refering them back under one gnereic "catch All" sticky?

     

    I would ask if this site is run from America or somewhere else - I am from the UK and we have issues over Free Speech here whereas I still think the US has the First Amendment ??? (please feel free to correct me if I have the Admendment selection incorrect)

    Free speech applies only in a public place.  When you are using this website you are in a private space.  I encourage you to walk into your neighborhood McDonalds and start spouting off political views, hold up signs, etc and see how long until they escort you off their private property.

    While we are bound to uphold your civil rights (like allowing people of all ethnic backgrounds, etc) we do not have to grant you freedom of speech...no more that I have freedom of speech at your dining table.

    I always found this angle amusing. You have free speech but not in private property. So seeing as in countries like US where private corporations own almost everything then there is no real free speech is there?

    Free speech should be absolute, either you have it or you dont. Either you can tell your mind or you cant.

  • AdminAdmin Santa Fe, NMPosts: 5,037Administrator Common

    Originally posted by Yamota

    Originally posted by Admin

    Originally posted by Breezeycouk

    Originally posted by GeezerGamer

    Originally posted by BillMurphy

    Hey guys,

    Just popping in to tell you that you can refer all Game List information to Jim Moreno.  He's culling through the list from A-Z and adding new games as we get them.  Please be patient, as it's not exactly a super-quick undertaking when the list is 600+ titles now.

    Jimmoreno at MMORPG dot com

    Thanks!

    What about all the locking of threads that criticize advertiser's products and refering them back under one gnereic "catch All" sticky?

     

    I would ask if this site is run from America or somewhere else - I am from the UK and we have issues over Free Speech here whereas I still think the US has the First Amendment ??? (please feel free to correct me if I have the Admendment selection incorrect)

    Free speech applies only in a public place.  When you are using this website you are in a private space.  I encourage you to walk into your neighborhood McDonalds and start spouting off political views, hold up signs, etc and see how long until they escort you off their private property.

    While we are bound to uphold your civil rights (like allowing people of all ethnic backgrounds, etc) we do not have to grant you freedom of speech...no more that I have freedom of speech at your dining table.

    I always found this angle amusing. You have free speech but not in private property. So seeing as in countries like US where private corporations own almost everything then there is no real free speech is there?

    Free speech should be absolute, either you have it or you dont. Either you can tell your mind or you cant.

     This is why you see picketers and protesters on sidewalks, parks, etc.  It would be pretty unconstitutional to allow these people to protest inside another persons private space that they own or pay rent for.  Are you saying you would not mind it if I walked into your home and started spouting off my views and the law required me to be able to do that and you could not make me leave?

    If you want to express your views online you can make your own website and do so - THAT is freedom of speech as is protected by the constituion.

    - MMORPG.COM Staff -

  • BreezeycoukBreezeycouk ReadingPosts: 82Member

     

    What this is more about is a while back we decided to try and improve our reputation of being the website where everyone came to trash on games.  It just made our forums have this dark negative cloud hanging over them and it drove away fans of games that came here to interact with fellow players of a particular game - what we had instead what a bunch of angry players hijacking topics and filling up the forums with hate posts.  This is just not a very welcoming enviornment for new users or people that actually like the game everyone is trashing on.

     

    While I take on board your other comments in this post which I can't comment on does this not strike to the heart of the whole MMORPG space that people comment on bad games that just copy the next best seller????

     

    I used to love to play SWG until WoW was released.......

     

    I was under the impression that the only way to get things improved was to complain about them ???

    (That's how I got a Spot Light poster tag???)

    While I understand your comments - You have to admit that Ad people will only place ads where they think it will benefit their product and ads must be a big part of your revenue stream ???

  • AdminAdmin Santa Fe, NMPosts: 5,037Administrator Common

    Originally posted by Breezeycouk

     

    What this is more about is a while back we decided to try and improve our reputation of being the website where everyone came to trash on games.  It just made our forums have this dark negative cloud hanging over them and it drove away fans of games that came here to interact with fellow players of a particular game - what we had instead what a bunch of angry players hijacking topics and filling up the forums with hate posts.  This is just not a very welcoming enviornment for new users or people that actually like the game everyone is trashing on.

     

    While I take on board your other comments in this post which I can't comment on does this not strike to the heart of the whole MMORPG space that people comment on bad games that just copy the next best seller????

     

    I used to love to play SWG until WoW was released.......

     

    I was under the impression that the only way to get things improved was to complain about them ???

    (That's how I got a Spot Light poster tag???)

    While I understand your comments - You have to admit that Ad people will only place ads where they think it will benefit their product and ads must be a big part of your revenue stream ???

     As the guy that sells advertising I can tell you that most advertisers don't even pay attention to our forums.  They care mostly aobut ads in one place - the Home Page.  Most ad buyers shy away from buying ads on forum pages as they don't perform well and are generally made up of educated users that already have their mind made up about something.  They would rather try to catch people hitting our home page or articles from Google searches and such.

    Advertisers are not fools, they know very well that a lot of people love and hate their products. 

    We encourage users to complain and share all feedback (if constructive) - and I don't really get involved with forum moderation but our Community Manager was given direction by us in management years ago to clean things up a bit because we had a LOT of users complaining about all the anger on our forums.  Mike took steps to try and contain all the negativity while still allowing people to post their views - I think he did a lot of this by moving it into sticky threads and requiring people to elaborate more about why they don't like a game, etc.

    - MMORPG.COM Staff -

  • YamotaYamota LondonPosts: 6,620Member

    Originally posted by Admin

    Originally posted by Yamota


    Originally posted by Admin


    Originally posted by Breezeycouk


    Originally posted by GeezerGamer


    Originally posted by BillMurphy

    Hey guys,

    Just popping in to tell you that you can refer all Game List information to Jim Moreno.  He's culling through the list from A-Z and adding new games as we get them.  Please be patient, as it's not exactly a super-quick undertaking when the list is 600+ titles now.

    Jimmoreno at MMORPG dot com

    Thanks!

    What about all the locking of threads that criticize advertiser's products and refering them back under one gnereic "catch All" sticky?

     

    I would ask if this site is run from America or somewhere else - I am from the UK and we have issues over Free Speech here whereas I still think the US has the First Amendment ??? (please feel free to correct me if I have the Admendment selection incorrect)

    Free speech applies only in a public place.  When you are using this website you are in a private space.  I encourage you to walk into your neighborhood McDonalds and start spouting off political views, hold up signs, etc and see how long until they escort you off their private property.

    While we are bound to uphold your civil rights (like allowing people of all ethnic backgrounds, etc) we do not have to grant you freedom of speech...no more that I have freedom of speech at your dining table.

    I always found this angle amusing. You have free speech but not in private property. So seeing as in countries like US where private corporations own almost everything then there is no real free speech is there?

    Free speech should be absolute, either you have it or you dont. Either you can tell your mind or you cant.

     This is why you see picketers and protesters on sidewalks, parks, etc.  It would be pretty unconstitutional to allow these people to protest inside another persons private space that they own or pay rent for.  Are you saying you would not mind it if I walked into your home and started spouting off my views and the law required me to be able to do that and you could not make me leave?

    If you want to express your views online you can make your own website and do so - THAT is freedom of speech as is protected by the constituion.

    My home and a public internet forum is not the same, not by a long shot. So obviously going to people's homes, without their consent, should not be allowed.

    And freedom of speech is not an exclusive US invention. It is mentioned in the UN declarations of human rights and interestingly it does not say that private corporations are exempt. I know that in US you hold private corporations sacred but most other countries hold freedom of speech even more sacred.

    Once you go down the road of saying that freedom of speech is a right but not in this place and that place and only in some cases, then you are on a slippery slope.

  • BreezeycoukBreezeycouk ReadingPosts: 82Member

    Originally posted by Admin

    Originally posted by Yamota


    Originally posted by Admin


    Originally posted by Breezeycouk


    Originally posted by GeezerGamer


    Originally posted by BillMurphy

    Hey guys,

    Just popping in to tell you that you can refer all Game List information to Jim Moreno.  He's culling through the list from A-Z and adding new games as we get them.  Please be patient, as it's not exactly a super-quick undertaking when the list is 600+ titles now.

    Jimmoreno at MMORPG dot com

    Thanks!

    What about all the locking of threads that criticize advertiser's products and refering them back under one gnereic "catch All" sticky?

     

    I would ask if this site is run from America or somewhere else - I am from the UK and we have issues over Free Speech here whereas I still think the US has the First Amendment ??? (please feel free to correct me if I have the Admendment selection incorrect)

    Free speech applies only in a public place.  When you are using this website you are in a private space.  I encourage you to walk into your neighborhood McDonalds and start spouting off political views, hold up signs, etc and see how long until they escort you off their private property.

    While we are bound to uphold your civil rights (like allowing people of all ethnic backgrounds, etc) we do not have to grant you freedom of speech...no more that I have freedom of speech at your dining table.

    I always found this angle amusing. You have free speech but not in private property. So seeing as in countries like US where private corporations own almost everything then there is no real free speech is there?

    Free speech should be absolute, either you have it or you dont. Either you can tell your mind or you cant.

     This is why you see picketers and protesters on sidewalks, parks, etc.  It would be pretty unconstitutional to allow these people to protest inside another persons private space that they own or pay rent for.  Are you saying you would not mind it if I walked into your home and started spouting off my views and the law required me to be able to do that and you could not make me leave?

    If you want to express your views online you can make your own website and do so - THAT is freedom of speech as is protected by the constituion.

     

    Okay People - I didn't mean for this to become a whole positional Freedom of Speech PoV.

    We have issues in the UK with websites "editing" or "locking" posts that the editors do not agree with.

    My thought was that as long as the post is not offensive to any people, colour, religion, creed or anything else that might break the US Consitional Law then surely it should be seen as feed back to the vendor in question.

     

    We just want to play goods games and I am sick of playing clones or poor quality / unfinshed / unsupported ones.

  • stragen001stragen001 ReadingPosts: 1,720Member

    Originally posted by Sakeraso

    Originally posted by Breezeycouk


    Originally posted by BartDaCat


    Originally posted by just1opinion

     

    Your poll doesn't give enough choices, sorry.

    I agree.  It doesn't offer enough choices to be a valid poll worthy of "Focus Group" status, thus, we will not be able to fund your thread with more advertising dollars.

     

    As previously stated - I am concerned over splitting the vote - I had hoped to be present a simple choice (But I accept the error of not giving a "None of the Above" option)

    I maybe a little out of touch after not really visting the site for so long but any advice on how to present polls in future would be gratfully recieved to make sure I am in line with current thinking

    This site actually deletes posts made against certain games they get money from, I.e every post that has anything bad to say about Guild wars 2 they delete, No longer a free place to speak openely about how you feel on certain aspects of video games,

    I disagree. 

    I have been fairly critical over certain aspects of Guild Wars 2 recently, as have many others, and I have never once seen such a thread deleted. Threads are however frequently locked to avoid duplication - there is no point having 6 threads discussing the exact same thing, and this applies to all topics. Often there are several threads created for breaking news and the mods tend to lock all but one so we can discuss it in one place.

    Cluck Cluck, Gibber Gibber, My Old Mans A Mushroom

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