Before WoW came out we had good programers that cared about what they were makeing not about how much cash they can make from the game they are creating.
SWToR would never of been made cause we would still be playing a much improved SWG
EQ2 would off been a game where you did real eq type quests not just do silly wow type quests
Stargate SG! would have to change there script in a lot of there series
Communication in mmos would be much better cause there would be no casual gamer who never gets to know anybody else
wow created a lot of money for a lot of differant companies in the last 8 years or so but now its gonna start to break companies and make room for the good non greed based mmo to make a comeback .
It wouldn't have changed that much. The MMO model was already moving towards greater levels of accessibility and instancing existed pre-WoW (such as City of Heroes). Frankly, vanilla WoW, while certainly one of the most accessible MMO at the time of its release, was still much less friendly to plays than the currrent iteration of WoW or any of its current themepark bretheren.
If WoW wasn't around, some other game would have taken WoW's place by realizing that tons of people are willing to pay for and play MMOs that let them make progress in one-hour play sessions and the sandbox-faithful here would be having the same complaints and conniptions.
The only big change that may have occured is that some gameplay systems that WoW popularized may not be around right now, such as the three talent tree system.
would have thought someone would have mentioned the general public would have seen middle earth online, before it got changed....would have liked to see that game....
Id likedto see how EQ2 would have been developed, if it wasnt for WoW, alot of to me bad features got implemented in EQ2 due to people having played WoW and complainted it wasnt present in EQ2, the very first of them being ?´marks over quest NPCs heads - might have been some before that, since I started almost half a year after release
Before WoW came out we had good programers that cared about what they were makeing not about how much cash they can make from the game they are creating.
SWToR would never of been made cause we would still be playing a much improved SWG
EQ2 would off been a game where you did real eq type quests not just do silly wow type quests
Stargate SG! would have to change there script in a lot of there series
Communication in mmos would be much better cause there would be no casual gamer who never gets to know anybody else
wow created a lot of money for a lot of differant companies in the last 8 years or so but now its gonna start to break companies and make room for the good non greed based mmo to make a comeback .
..takes money to make and improve games. The customers beg and plead then they got what WoW is today. What more is there to say about that? Don't mistake success for greed, it happens far to often on these forums.
I would say "dont mistake developers for publishers" is more appropriate. Developers are (usually) pretty passionate about what they do, and are gamers themselves when they have the time. Publishers are often non-gamers who see all gamers as walking sacks of cash waiting to be exploited. They're the ones who control what the developers make, because they're the ones paying for it to be made.
When EQ was started it was ceated by 3 guys that had a dream they didnt once think it would be a huge money maker but it was what they wanted to play and i bet the same can be said about many more games before wow came out. These comapanys didnt have huge budgets they were just dedicated and had fun makeing the game.
Every game i seen since WoW came out has been trying to get on the money train that is WoW style instead of creating something from the heart that matters to them and not what there boss says you have to have in the game.
Yeah you have peeps screaming for this and that to be in a game but it shouldnt matter what anybody wants in the game but what the progrmmers and designers feel would be best for the game they are trying to create.
Even though SWToR has failed in most peeps eyes if it dont make a huge loss for the developers we will still be getting the same crap mmos for another 8 years. From what i have seen the trend is to make as much from the box sales and then go f2P a few months later so they dont have to keep creating expacs and such. Thats not a mmo its a single player game thats played online.
I have hope that as programmers get let go cause game companys are going bankrupt after spending millions on WoW clones they will band together to create a game that the real mmo player actually wants to play.
There'd be a lot less people addicted to video games, a lot more productivity, a lot less mainstream'ing in video games, devs would be a lot less concerned with matching WoW's success and thus more likely to innovate rather than mimic, and if nothing else you'd never hear another "WoW clone!" again.
In other words, the world would be a far better place if WoW never existed.
"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."
I have hope that as programmers get let go cause game companys are going bankrupt after spending millions on WoW clones they will band together to create a game that the real mmo player actually wants to play.
This is allegedly what Sigil was attempting to do with Vanguard.
Unfortunately Microsoft, and later Sony found ways to screw them up as well. Now Sigil is just a memory, and whats-his-face sold out.
Um... world peace? Not really sure what the goal of this thread is. I remember sampling a smattering of MMOs in the year or so before WoW's launch (e.g. Lineage 2 open beta, among others), and all everyone could talk about in the chats were "I'm only playing this until WoW comes out." or "Man, I can't wait til WoW. The game's gonna ROCK!"
And it did. The market was already hungry for it, and the market is what made it evolve into what it is. 10+ million subscriptions can't be wrong. Don't get me wrong, I'm no fanboy. I can see its flaws from a mile away, but I also had fun playing it. It scratched an itch that a vast majority of the MMO-playing public had.
"You'll never win an argument with an idiot because he is too stupid to recognize his own defeat." ~Anonymous
Obviously, we'd all be playing our perfect definition of an mmo right now... while farting rainbows.
I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.
We'd likely have a lot more variety, that was one of the biggest downsides to the clone war years post WoW. I enjoyed that EQ played differently to UO, UO played differently than AC, AC played differently than Shadowbane, Shadowbane played differently than DAoC. Each game world felt truly like it's own place, each game had it's own identity, and I liked them all for various reasons and their personal charms. It's evident even in the games that never made it out of Beta that people were trying different things, as reflected in games like Mythica, Dragon Empires, Wish, Lejendary Adventures and more. Now people are so used to clones there's a guy arguing in another thread that ALL MMOs have the same shallow endgame hamsterwheel as Rift/WoW despite the plethora of models out there that don't resemble that endgame in the slightest.
I'd feel cheated if I'd been one of those that missed out on actual variety in games, but when all you know are clones, I guess it's hard to envision anything else. Luckily it looks like we'll start seeing more than just rehashes over the coming years (ArcheAge, Pathfinder, The Repopulation and possibly GW2, come to mind), especially as independent studios gain access to quality middleware that used to be financially out of reach.
Looking around the MMOs of a decade ago made me eager to see where creative teams would go from those humble beginnings. It would have broken my heart to learn that everything would grind to a halt as everyone scrambled to replicate the same game (with extremely limited success) over the course of 7-8 years. I'd far prefer we were hitting 2012 with 15 years of varied experiments to learn from rather than the limited teachings of how to (and how not to) clone WoW.
We'd likely have a lot more variety, that was one of the biggest downsides to the clone war years post WoW. I enjoyed that EQ played differently to UO, UO played differently than AC, AC played differently than Shadowbane, Shadowbane played differently than DAoC. Each game world felt truly like it's own place, each game had it's own identity, and I liked them all for various reasons and their personal charms. It's evident even in the games that never made it out of Beta that people were trying different things, as reflected in games like Mythica, Dragon Empires, Wish, Lejendary Adventures and more. Now people are so used to clones there's a guy arguing in another thread that ALL MMOs have the same shallow endgame hamsterwheel as Rift/WoW despite the plethora of models out there that don't resemble that endgame in the slightest.
I'd feel cheated if I'd been one of those that missed out on actual variety in games, but when all you know are clones, I guess it's hard to envision anything else. Luckily it looks like we'll start seeing more than just rehashes over the coming years (ArcheAge, Pathfinder, The Repopulation and possibly GW2, come to mind), especially as independent studios gain access to quality middleware that used to be financially out of reach.
Looking around the MMOs of a decade ago made me eager to see where creative teams would go from those humble beginnings. It would have broken my heart to learn that everything would grind to a halt as everyone scrambled to replicate the same game (with extremely limited success) over the course of 7-8 years. I'd far prefer we were hitting 2012 with 15 years of varied experiments to learn from rather than the limited teachings of how to (and how not to) clone WoW.
Yea I have hopes for Pathfinder, and also World of Darkness since it is CCP doing it. I also think that the community of players would be better(more polite and less rabid about endgame) in all MMO's if WoW had never existed - just saying.
Before WoW came out we had good programers that cared about what they were makeing not about how much cash they can make from the game they are creating.
SWToR would never of been made cause we would still be playing a much improved SWG
EQ2 would off been a game where you did real eq type quests not just do silly wow type quests
Stargate SG! would have to change there script in a lot of there series
Communication in mmos would be much better cause there would be no casual gamer who never gets to know anybody else
wow created a lot of money for a lot of differant companies in the last 8 years or so but now its gonna start to break companies and make room for the good non greed based mmo to make a comeback .
It is kinda funny because those early games created by those that weren't interested in how much cash they could make were owned and operated by EA (who owned Origin through the entire development cycle of UO) and SOE who created Verant with the sole purpose of developing Everquest. So the two most evil companies today were originally not interested in cash. Go figure.
Of corse they had to have money to publish there game but the point i was getting at was designers that worked on EQ worked with a passion to make a good fun game not copy a game because it was makeing money.
here is part of a chat MMMORPG. had with the creater of EQ
Brad McQuaid:
We made the game we ourselves wanted to play. We wanted a challenging game where players could get a real sense of accomplishment, where risk vs. reward really meant something. The more difficult games we'd played, both online and offline, were the ones we both enjoyed and fondly remembered.
Was this the right approach from a commercial standpoint? Perhaps not. If I had a time machine I'd probably go back and do some of the things WoW later proved to be more mass market (though that would probably make me feel like a sell-out). In the end, though, EQ has grossed over a half a billion dollars. So while the game could have been easier, more polished, etc., it's not like we made something totally niche or esoteric. We were just lucky that the game we wanted to play was also a game that millions of others would enjoy as well.
Of corse they had to have money to publish there game but the point i was getting at was designers that worked on EQ worked with a passion to make a good fun game not copy a game because it was makeing money. here is part of a chat MMMORPG. had with the creater of EQ
Brad McQuaid:
We made the game we ourselves wanted to play. We wanted a challenging game where players could get a real sense of accomplishment, where risk vs. reward really meant something. The more difficult games we'd played, both online and offline, were the ones we both enjoyed and fondly remembered. Was this the right approach from a commercial standpoint? Perhaps not. If I had a time machine I'd probably go back and do some of the things WoW later proved to be more mass market (though that would probably make me feel like a sell-out). In the end, though, EQ has grossed over a half a billion dollars. So while the game could have been easier, more polished, etc., it's not like we made something totally niche or esoteric. We were just lucky that the game we wanted to play was also a game that millions of others would enjoy as well.
Im not going to say the MMO genre needs to warp back in time, I am just glad that I got experience EQ when it was a new concept and the genre wasnt about mass marketing.I didnt want to like WoW when it was first released, but the fact is I did. I didnt like it as much as it progressed with expansions. However, the same can be said with EQ. Kunark was the last expansion I can say I didnt think dramatically stole the initial ambience of the game for me. I think any change to a game that you love that releases an expansion that dramatically changes the ambience of the initial game will do that for a player. The original world you first got lost in will never find an equal match.
A world without Wow would be a bountiful paradise. There would no longer be disease, famine, pollution, or war.
Sadly though since Wow does exist, all those poor nerdy college students who should have gone on to stamp out disease, world hunger, invent clean energy, or end interglobal strife with diplomacy, all became hardcore raiders and flunked out of school.
Hey. it COULD be true. Guess we'll never know.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
A world without Wow would be a bountiful paradise. There would no longer be disease, famine, pollution, or war.
Sadly though since Wow does exist, all those poor nerdy college students who should have gone on to stamp out disease, world hunger, invent clean energy, or end interglobal strife with diplomacy, all became hardcore raiders and flunked out of school.
Eventually an MMO behemoth would have come along and it would have been wildly successful with millions playing it, it just would have had a different name. And people would be whining about that game instead.
A world without Wow would be a bountiful paradise. There would no longer be disease, famine, pollution, or war.
Sadly though since Wow does exist, all those poor nerdy college students who should have gone on to stamp out disease, world hunger, invent clean energy, or end interglobal strife with diplomacy, all became hardcore raiders and flunked out of school.
Comments
Before WoW came out we had good programers that cared about what they were makeing not about how much cash they can make from the game they are creating.
SWToR would never of been made cause we would still be playing a much improved SWG
EQ2 would off been a game where you did real eq type quests not just do silly wow type quests
Stargate SG! would have to change there script in a lot of there series
Communication in mmos would be much better cause there would be no casual gamer who never gets to know anybody else
wow created a lot of money for a lot of differant companies in the last 8 years or so but now its gonna start to break companies and make room for the good non greed based mmo to make a comeback .
It wouldn't have changed that much. The MMO model was already moving towards greater levels of accessibility and instancing existed pre-WoW (such as City of Heroes). Frankly, vanilla WoW, while certainly one of the most accessible MMO at the time of its release, was still much less friendly to plays than the currrent iteration of WoW or any of its current themepark bretheren.
If WoW wasn't around, some other game would have taken WoW's place by realizing that tons of people are willing to pay for and play MMOs that let them make progress in one-hour play sessions and the sandbox-faithful here would be having the same complaints and conniptions.
The only big change that may have occured is that some gameplay systems that WoW popularized may not be around right now, such as the three talent tree system.
would have thought someone would have mentioned the general public would have seen middle earth online, before it got changed....would have liked to see that game....
Id likedto see how EQ2 would have been developed, if it wasnt for WoW, alot of to me bad features got implemented in EQ2 due to people having played WoW and complainted it wasnt present in EQ2, the very first of them being ?´marks over quest NPCs heads - might have been some before that, since I started almost half a year after release
I would say "dont mistake developers for publishers" is more appropriate. Developers are (usually) pretty passionate about what they do, and are gamers themselves when they have the time. Publishers are often non-gamers who see all gamers as walking sacks of cash waiting to be exploited. They're the ones who control what the developers make, because they're the ones paying for it to be made.
When EQ was started it was ceated by 3 guys that had a dream they didnt once think it would be a huge money maker but it was what they wanted to play and i bet the same can be said about many more games before wow came out. These comapanys didnt have huge budgets they were just dedicated and had fun makeing the game.
Every game i seen since WoW came out has been trying to get on the money train that is WoW style instead of creating something from the heart that matters to them and not what there boss says you have to have in the game.
Yeah you have peeps screaming for this and that to be in a game but it shouldnt matter what anybody wants in the game but what the progrmmers and designers feel would be best for the game they are trying to create.
Even though SWToR has failed in most peeps eyes if it dont make a huge loss for the developers we will still be getting the same crap mmos for another 8 years. From what i have seen the trend is to make as much from the box sales and then go f2P a few months later so they dont have to keep creating expacs and such. Thats not a mmo its a single player game thats played online.
I have hope that as programmers get let go cause game companys are going bankrupt after spending millions on WoW clones they will band together to create a game that the real mmo player actually wants to play.
There'd be a lot less people addicted to video games, a lot more productivity, a lot less mainstream'ing in video games, devs would be a lot less concerned with matching WoW's success and thus more likely to innovate rather than mimic, and if nothing else you'd never hear another "WoW clone!" again.
In other words, the world would be a far better place if WoW never existed.
"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."
This is allegedly what Sigil was attempting to do with Vanguard.
Unfortunately Microsoft, and later Sony found ways to screw them up as well. Now Sigil is just a memory, and whats-his-face sold out.
Um... world peace? Not really sure what the goal of this thread is. I remember sampling a smattering of MMOs in the year or so before WoW's launch (e.g. Lineage 2 open beta, among others), and all everyone could talk about in the chats were "I'm only playing this until WoW comes out." or "Man, I can't wait til WoW. The game's gonna ROCK!"
And it did. The market was already hungry for it, and the market is what made it evolve into what it is. 10+ million subscriptions can't be wrong. Don't get me wrong, I'm no fanboy. I can see its flaws from a mile away, but I also had fun playing it. It scratched an itch that a vast majority of the MMO-playing public had.
"You'll never win an argument with an idiot because he is too stupid to recognize his own defeat." ~Anonymous
Obviously, we'd all be playing our perfect definition of an mmo right now... while farting rainbows.
I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.
Get your history straight.
We'd likely have a lot more variety, that was one of the biggest downsides to the clone war years post WoW. I enjoyed that EQ played differently to UO, UO played differently than AC, AC played differently than Shadowbane, Shadowbane played differently than DAoC. Each game world felt truly like it's own place, each game had it's own identity, and I liked them all for various reasons and their personal charms. It's evident even in the games that never made it out of Beta that people were trying different things, as reflected in games like Mythica, Dragon Empires, Wish, Lejendary Adventures and more. Now people are so used to clones there's a guy arguing in another thread that ALL MMOs have the same shallow endgame hamsterwheel as Rift/WoW despite the plethora of models out there that don't resemble that endgame in the slightest.
I'd feel cheated if I'd been one of those that missed out on actual variety in games, but when all you know are clones, I guess it's hard to envision anything else. Luckily it looks like we'll start seeing more than just rehashes over the coming years (ArcheAge, Pathfinder, The Repopulation and possibly GW2, come to mind), especially as independent studios gain access to quality middleware that used to be financially out of reach.
Looking around the MMOs of a decade ago made me eager to see where creative teams would go from those humble beginnings. It would have broken my heart to learn that everything would grind to a halt as everyone scrambled to replicate the same game (with extremely limited success) over the course of 7-8 years. I'd far prefer we were hitting 2012 with 15 years of varied experiments to learn from rather than the limited teachings of how to (and how not to) clone WoW.
Yea I have hopes for Pathfinder, and also World of Darkness since it is CCP doing it. I also think that the community of players would be better(more polite and less rabid about endgame) in all MMO's if WoW had never existed - just saying.
Currently bored with MMO's.
It is kinda funny because those early games created by those that weren't interested in how much cash they could make were owned and operated by EA (who owned Origin through the entire development cycle of UO) and SOE who created Verant with the sole purpose of developing Everquest. So the two most evil companies today were originally not interested in cash. Go figure.
Those three guys were also hand picked by the dreaded Smedly who was also in charge of the project from the beginning.
it would be a better place...
Of corse they had to have money to publish there game but the point i was getting at was designers that worked on EQ worked with a passion to make a good fun game not copy a game because it was makeing money.
here is part of a chat MMMORPG. had with the creater of EQ
Brad McQuaid:
We made the game we ourselves wanted to play. We wanted a challenging game where players could get a real sense of accomplishment, where risk vs. reward really meant something. The more difficult games we'd played, both online and offline, were the ones we both enjoyed and fondly remembered.
Was this the right approach from a commercial standpoint? Perhaps not. If I had a time machine I'd probably go back and do some of the things WoW later proved to be more mass market (though that would probably make me feel like a sell-out). In the end, though, EQ has grossed over a half a billion dollars. So while the game could have been easier, more polished, etc., it's not like we made something totally niche or esoteric. We were just lucky that the game we wanted to play was also a game that millions of others would enjoy as well.
Im not going to say the MMO genre needs to warp back in time, I am just glad that I got experience EQ when it was a new concept and the genre wasnt about mass marketing.I didnt want to like WoW when it was first released, but the fact is I did. I didnt like it as much as it progressed with expansions. However, the same can be said with EQ. Kunark was the last expansion I can say I didnt think dramatically stole the initial ambience of the game for me. I think any change to a game that you love that releases an expansion that dramatically changes the ambience of the initial game will do that for a player. The original world you first got lost in will never find an equal match.What would the world without Hitler be like?
Probably still filled with violence and suffering.
A world without WoW would equal more productive people.
Fixed.
A world without Wow would be a bountiful paradise. There would no longer be disease, famine, pollution, or war.
Sadly though since Wow does exist, all those poor nerdy college students who should have gone on to stamp out disease, world hunger, invent clean energy, or end interglobal strife with diplomacy, all became hardcore raiders and flunked out of school.
Hey. it COULD be true. Guess we'll never know.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
WoW had halted human progress by almost a decade!
Eventually an MMO behemoth would have come along and it would have been wildly successful with millions playing it, it just would have had a different name. And people would be whining about that game instead.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Path_integral_formulation