I now know why this game does not have millions of subscribers, the learning curve is far too steep for many (not all) of us casuals.
Correct EVE is not for casual players. EVE is for those who wish to crush their enemies, drive them to poverty and hear the lamentations of their women(slight change from the original). Also, mostly they want your tears(in game usage applies).
I now know why this game does not have millions of subscribers, the learning curve is far too steep for many (not all) of us casuals.
Correct EVE is not for casual players. EVE is for those who wish to crush their enemies, drive them to poverty and hear the lamentations of their women(slight change from the original). Also, mostly they want your tears(in game usage applies).
Spend massive amount of time* Join large corperations who can let you remotely live* Win by having more Money*.
If you played for some time, chances are your going to be at top and stay at top. A 'sandbox esque' experience at its... um... finest. You stand no chance unless you get brought in by a big corperation or hit lucky break upon lucky break... or just manage to scam suckers somehow into buying into your little pansy scheme.
Money > Skill in terms of combat, simply put combat there is no skill what so ever behind it, just the goods your ship has. Thats not to say there is no strategy in doing an attack, just after its started its just 'whoever has the best goods wins'. nuff said.
My problem with Eve (and Darkfall) wasn't the learning curve, it was the power curve. After playing Eve for like two days, it became abundantly clear to me that I would never in a thousand years be able to even think about competing with most of the player base that has been there for a long time and has accumulated insane amounts of wealth and skill.
I would always be some stupid pleb miner or errand boy for some corp and well, that gameplay just doesn't appeal to me.
Don't get me wrong, I love progression in games, but at a certain point it gets ridiculous. When you can just keep getting more powerful and more powerful over years and years of playing a game, it becomes literally impossible for a new person to catch up.
Takes around a month to get your feet wet in pvp (Factional Warfare is great for this: mainly cheap, expendable ship gangs) and do level 3 missions for some initial steady income in my experience.
After half a year I started roaming around in Wormholes blowing up people with much older chars, exploring in lowsec, demanding ransoms, suicide ganking, baiting pirates, blowing up POSses, doing regular wardecs and infiltrating the target corps with an alt account ... also running away from mercenary corps a lot
The initial cash I needed for that was made doing mainly level 4 missions. But after some more months the small time piracy and misschief started to pay for itself and I could focus on what was fun.
It does take some time and being in a corp, even if its a small one, helps A LOT. But the time it takes to become efficient and competitive in T1 frigs and battlecruisers and semi-efficient in battleships is very manageable. Also you can of course buy an older character from the bazaar.
In my impression the whole "I'll never be able to compete" idea is kind of a myth. It DOES take some months though, but the scope of the game and your options really grows along with you.
Well considering my normal lifespan in an MMORPG is about 2 months...it's a bit too much for me . I played Darkfall for a while, but I hated the idea that I needed to just grind for literally months to even try to do any PvP.
I love the idea of sandboxes, but I would like one that doesn't encourage this whole wolves (old players) preying on sheep (new players) idea.
I now know why this game does not have millions of subscribers, the learning curve is far too steep for many (not all) of us casuals.
Correct EVE is not for casual players. EVE is for those who wish to crush their enemies, drive them to poverty and hear the lamentations of their women(slight change from the original). Also, mostly they want your tears(in game usage applies).
Spend massive amount of time* Join large corperations who can let you remotely live* Win by having more Money*.
If you played for some time, chances are your going to be at top and stay at top. A 'sandbox esque' experience at its... um... finest. You stand no chance unless you get brought in by a big corperation or hit lucky break upon lucky break... or just manage to scam suckers somehow into buying into your little pansy scheme.
Money > Skill in terms of combat, simply put combat there is no skill what so ever behind it, just the goods your ship has. Thats not to say there is no strategy in doing an attack, just after its started its just 'whoever has the best goods wins'. nuff said.
Ahh...
Well I can tell you that I have played Eve for a long time and I disagree with basically everything you said. There is a lot of 'skill' involved in pvp. It's not always who has the most money wins. Knowing how to pilot a ship (it's optimals, speed, etc), it's strengths and weaknesses, the equipment you are using, the type of ammo to use, understanding the mechanics of how pvp and aggro works....While none of that is necessarily skill, it's a lot more than just money. In the case of big fights, yeah a lot of the time whoever brings the most wins, but that is no different than pretty much every other game ever made. The zerg wins. You can however beat the zerg with excellent tactics and solid FCs.
What does take skill is being a leader, an FC. Not everyone is cut out for that.
As far as catching up to vets, no, you will never have the amount of skill points they have. That doesn't mean you can't fly what they fly, after some time. Being a vet just means you have more options, whereas a newer character should specialize in something they like at frist. If you specialize you will be caught up to a vet in no time. It's not like a vet can fly 10 ships at the same time.
I have never played Eve,but I have had lots of friends that do and have read about it for years. From what I can tell it is a thinking mans game and an acquired taste. Like Cognac and foreign movies. The gamers that play it are fiercely loyal to it, at least they used to be,and some friends of mine wouldn't even play other games if they couldn't play that. It almost has a cult following. I think if may be the "Chess" of MMO's.
meh, i have gotten into the habit of not getting into games that are well established. Especially ones with retarded drama, takes the fun out of it. I don't like learning curves that look like this either:
My problem with Eve (and Darkfall) wasn't the learning curve, it was the power curve. After playing Eve for like two days, it became abundantly clear to me that I would never in a thousand years be able to even think about competing with most of the player base that has been there for a long time and has accumulated insane amounts of wealth and skill.
I would always be some stupid pleb miner or errand boy for some corp and well, that gameplay just doesn't appeal to me.
Don't get me wrong, I love progression in games, but at a certain point it gets ridiculous. When you can just keep getting more powerful and more powerful over years and years of playing a game, it becomes literally impossible for a new person to catch up.
Takes around a month to get your feet wet in pvp (Factional Warfare is great for this: mainly cheap, expendable ship gangs) and do level 3 missions for some initial steady income in my experience.
After half a year I started roaming around in Wormholes blowing up people with much older chars, exploring in lowsec, demanding ransoms, suicide ganking, baiting pirates, blowing up POSses, doing regular wardecs and infiltrating the target corps with an alt account ... also running away from mercenary corps a lot
The initial cash I needed for that was made doing mainly level 4 missions. But after some more months the small time piracy and misschief started to pay for itself and I could focus on what was fun.
It does take some time and being in a corp, even if its a small one, helps A LOT. But the time it takes to become efficient and competitive in T1 frigs and battlecruisers and semi-efficient in battleships is very manageable. Also you can of course buy an older character from the bazaar.
In my impression the whole "I'll never be able to compete" idea is kind of a myth. It DOES take some months though, but the scope of the game and your options really grows along with you.
It is not a myth. There is a huge difference between someone who has billions of ISK and 100 million skillpoints compared to someone who has millions of ISK and only 5 million skillpoints. HUGE!
That does not mean that the latter one cannot do stuff but to believe that they are on equal footing is just delusional.
My problem with Eve (and Darkfall) wasn't the learning curve, it was the power curve. After playing Eve for like two days, it became abundantly clear to me that I would never in a thousand years be able to even think about competing with most of the player base that has been there for a long time and has accumulated insane amounts of wealth and skill.
I would always be some stupid pleb miner or errand boy for some corp and well, that gameplay just doesn't appeal to me.
Don't get me wrong, I love progression in games, but at a certain point it gets ridiculous. When you can just keep getting more powerful and more powerful over years and years of playing a game, it becomes literally impossible for a new person to catch up.
this combined with the full loot pvp without besically no safe zones is why DF is in the state it's in.
the only reason EvE managed to get those 30/40 thousand subscribers is because it has a huge high safety zone, where people can play without getting constantly harrased by those more powerfull.
hopefully DF 2.0 (if it ever comes out) will address those 2 issues.
True. If Eve was all low and null sec then it would not have 1/10 of the subscriber base it currently has. Gotta love the irony in that...
When i started EVE online i was working nightshift security where i was so bored i needed something to do. So I leanred every aspect of EVE online without even playing it. Then when i started to play it...it was easy.
So yeah I would not be playign EVE today if it wasnt for my night shift job
Playing: PO, EVE Waiting for: WoD Favourite MMOs: VG, EVE, FE and DDO Any person who expresses rage and loathing for an MMO is preposterous. He or she is like a person who has put on full armor and attacked a hot fudge sundae.
meh, i have gotten into the habit of not getting into games that are well established. Especially ones with retarded drama, takes the fun out of it. I don't like learning curves that look like this either:
Originally posted by Jakdstripper please do explain....
You can do easily pretty much anything in EVE solo, the list of things you truly cannot do is fairly short - territorial warfare and some high lvl content.
Just because you do not how to do it, does not mean it is impossible.
The game is easy to understand, it isn't complex but just hidden behind a horrible cluster fuck of a UI and it's so repetitive it gets boring so quickly. To make money in this game through most avenues is doing the same boring task over and over again. People will say you can make money via PVP but the truth is you'll be owned as a new player and if you are lucky enough to find a corp, they'll never replace your ship so either way you'll have to get money yourself. So the only way you're making money and that is via PVE or mining or something, you wont compete in PVP and you wont compete with people on the market.
They need to bring the alliance tournament style of PVP into the game, fair fights that you and your mates can go up against other groups, all balanced and fair. Problem with EVEs PVP now is you'll never come across a fair fight, it's all ganking. To me EVEs PVP doesn't require any skill, it's all automated so the deciding factor already has happened before the fight. It'll either be ship type vs ship type or who has the most ships wins. As it's not twitch based or a frigate could never take down a battleship and vice versa, you cannot use skill in PVP. So normally it's just throw as many ships as you can and you'll never get 1 v 1 where you prove your skill up against someone else.
I would like to see Arena (Alliance Tournament) like WoW has because it's fair fights, you move up the rankings and prove your skill against other people. There is nothing skillful about 0.0 in EVE, small gangs is slightly better but it's still 99% of the time ganking. They need to fix these things before I get into it, I really loved 2003 when you'd only ever come up against 1 or 2 people which made PVP fun. Now the games so busy that it'll always be unfair fights and it sucks.
I doubt this will ever happen I mean the UI has needed a massive overhaul for years but CCP don't seem to care.
My problem with Eve (and Darkfall) wasn't the learning curve, it was the power curve.
No, that isn't your problem. Premature judgement is:
Originally posted by Creslin321
After playing Eve for like two days, it became abundantly clear to me
One of the most important assets in EVE is knowledge - wealth or skill points are not even close.
Unlike Darkfall, EVE has skill caps and it is fairly easy to catch up in specialization.
I'm sure knowledge is important, but I honestly don't see how becoming "competitive" in Eve doesn't involve a pretty long grind.. Even if I knew exactly what to do in Eve, I really don't think I could get around having to mine or do some other tedious task for days upon days before I could even think about playing with the "big boys." And even then...I would be a relatively small fish in a big pond and never really be able to compete with the "real" big boys. You also have to consider that anyone in Eve who is remotely competitive probably has the same knowledge you do.
Contrast this with Starcraft 2 where I bought the game, watched a lot of pro-gamer replays to learn strategy, practiced, and then made it to diamond league in like 2 weeks. This is a game where knowledge and skill make the difference.
I guess my problem is that when a game is essentially about "competition and dominance" like Eve is, I don't want to be forced into a losing role just by lack of grinding. I LOVE the sandbox concept, but I hate how it's always about big fish eating smaller fish.
Originally posted by Creslin321I'm sure knowledge is important, but I honestly don't see how becoming "competitive" in Eve doesn't involve a pretty long grind.. Even if I knew exactly what to do in Eve, I really don't think I could get around having to mine or do some other tedious task for days upon days before I could even think about playing with the "big boys." And even then...I would be a relatively small fish in a big pond and never really be able to compete with the "real" big boys. You also have to consider that anyone in Eve who is remotely competitive probably has the same knowledge you do. Contrast this with Starcraft 2 where I bought the game, watched a lot of pro-gamer replays to learn strategy, practiced, and then made it to diamond league in like 2 weeks. This is a game where knowledge and skill make the difference. I guess my problem is that when a game is essentially about "competition and dominance" like Eve is, I don't want to be forced into a losing role just by lack of grinding. I LOVE the sandbox concept, but I hate how it's always about big fish eating smaller fish.
Long, tedious grind? Well, if you cannot think of some other way...
Only limit in EVE is yourself and reading your lines, you put those limits really low.
Long, tedious grind? Well, if you cannot find some other way...
Only limit in EVE is yourself and reading your lines, you put those limits really high.
sorry but that's BS. you simply have to wait for skills in EvE, so actaully TIME is the limiting factor in EvE.....unless of course you buy an account, which is illegal.
My problem with Eve (and Darkfall) wasn't the learning curve, it was the power curve. After playing Eve for like two days, it became abundantly clear to me that I would never in a thousand years be able to even think about competing with most of the player base that has been there for a long time and has accumulated insane amounts of wealth and skill.
I would always be some stupid pleb miner or errand boy for some corp and well, that gameplay just doesn't appeal to me.
Don't get me wrong, I love progression in games, but at a certain point it gets ridiculous. When you can just keep getting more powerful and more powerful over years and years of playing a game, it becomes literally impossible for a new person to catch up.
Takes around a month to get your feet wet in pvp (Factional Warfare is great for this: mainly cheap, expendable ship gangs) and do level 3 missions for some initial steady income in my experience.
After half a year I started roaming around in Wormholes blowing up people with much older chars, exploring in lowsec, demanding ransoms, suicide ganking, baiting pirates, blowing up POSses, doing regular wardecs and infiltrating the target corps with an alt account ... also running away from mercenary corps a lot
The initial cash I needed for that was made doing mainly level 4 missions. But after some more months the small time piracy and misschief started to pay for itself and I could focus on what was fun.
It does take some time and being in a corp, even if its a small one, helps A LOT. But the time it takes to become efficient and competitive in T1 frigs and battlecruisers and semi-efficient in battleships is very manageable. Also you can of course buy an older character from the bazaar.
In my impression the whole "I'll never be able to compete" idea is kind of a myth. It DOES take some months though, but the scope of the game and your options really grows along with you.
It is not a myth. There is a huge difference between someone who has billions of ISK and 100 million skillpoints compared to someone who has millions of ISK and only 5 million skillpoints. HUGE!
That does not mean that the latter one cannot do stuff but to believe that they are on equal footing is just delusional.
Seems you didn't read my post so well this time around, Yamo.
My problem with Eve (and Darkfall) wasn't the learning curve, it was the power curve. After playing Eve for like two days, it became abundantly clear to me that I would never in a thousand years be able to even think about competing with most of the player base that has been there for a long time and has accumulated insane amounts of wealth and skill.
I would always be some stupid pleb miner or errand boy for some corp and well, that gameplay just doesn't appeal to me.
Don't get me wrong, I love progression in games, but at a certain point it gets ridiculous. When you can just keep getting more powerful and more powerful over years and years of playing a game, it becomes literally impossible for a new person to catch up.
Takes around a month to get your feet wet in pvp (Factional Warfare is great for this: mainly cheap, expendable ship gangs) and do level 3 missions for some initial steady income in my experience.
After half a year I started roaming around in Wormholes blowing up people with much older chars, exploring in lowsec, demanding ransoms, suicide ganking, baiting pirates, blowing up POSses, doing regular wardecs and infiltrating the target corps with an alt account ... also running away from mercenary corps a lot
The initial cash I needed for that was made doing mainly level 4 missions. But after some more months the small time piracy and misschief started to pay for itself and I could focus on what was fun.
It does take some time and being in a corp, even if its a small one, helps A LOT. But the time it takes to become efficient and competitive in T1 frigs and battlecruisers and semi-efficient in battleships is very manageable. Also you can of course buy an older character from the bazaar.
In my impression the whole "I'll never be able to compete" idea is kind of a myth. It DOES take some months though, but the scope of the game and your options really grows along with you.
Well considering my normal lifespan in an MMORPG is about 2 months...it's a bit too much for me . I played Darkfall for a while, but I hated the idea that I needed to just grind for literally months to even try to do any PvP.
I love the idea of sandboxes, but I would like one that doesn't encourage this whole wolves (old players) preying on sheep (new players) idea.
Fair enough. The treshold is pretty steep compared to just about any other game but people that say that you will never be able to catch up and compete with older chars aren't truthful in my opinion.
I always used 5 probes. There is an art to scanning down complexes in EVE. You also need to enjoy doing it and invest significant training time into it or it isn't worth it. Training into t2 frigs and getting all the scanning skills to 4 or 5 is a must. Also invest in some Sisters probes, so longs as you aren't prone to leaving them behind.
Free to play = content updates for the cash shop. Buy to play = content updates for the cash shop. Subscription = Actual content updates!
To OP, if I remember correctly you need 4 probes not 3. there is your 0.1% your missing.
Read through some of the reply's and yes, the chess of mmo's, a thinking mans game. Very rewarding once the curve has been tackled.
Eve is for casual gamers aswell. I am very much a casual gamer ( 3-4 hours aday, sometimes miss a day. is that casual?) and I stil very much enjoy the game.
Comments
Power curve?
The average EVE player only lasts for 6 months.
Play for 7 and you're already ahead of the curve.
this game................
Correct EVE is not for casual players. EVE is for those who wish to crush their enemies, drive them to poverty and hear the lamentations of their women(slight change from the original). Also, mostly they want your tears(in game usage applies).
Currently bored with MMO's.
Spend massive amount of time* Join large corperations who can let you remotely live* Win by having more Money*.
If you played for some time, chances are your going to be at top and stay at top. A 'sandbox esque' experience at its... um... finest. You stand no chance unless you get brought in by a big corperation or hit lucky break upon lucky break... or just manage to scam suckers somehow into buying into your little pansy scheme.
Money > Skill in terms of combat, simply put combat there is no skill what so ever behind it, just the goods your ship has. Thats not to say there is no strategy in doing an attack, just after its started its just 'whoever has the best goods wins'. nuff said.
I would rather have a root canal with no anesthesia than play EVE.(does that give you an idea of how frustrating and poorly done the tutorial is ?)
Thats exactly the message I sent to the company upon leaving.
Well considering my normal lifespan in an MMORPG is about 2 months...it's a bit too much for me
. I played Darkfall for a while, but I hated the idea that I needed to just grind for literally months to even try to do any PvP.
I love the idea of sandboxes, but I would like one that doesn't encourage this whole wolves (old players) preying on sheep (new players) idea.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Ahh...
Well I can tell you that I have played Eve for a long time and I disagree with basically everything you said. There is a lot of 'skill' involved in pvp. It's not always who has the most money wins. Knowing how to pilot a ship (it's optimals, speed, etc), it's strengths and weaknesses, the equipment you are using, the type of ammo to use, understanding the mechanics of how pvp and aggro works....While none of that is necessarily skill, it's a lot more than just money. In the case of big fights, yeah a lot of the time whoever brings the most wins, but that is no different than pretty much every other game ever made. The zerg wins. You can however beat the zerg with excellent tactics and solid FCs.
What does take skill is being a leader, an FC. Not everyone is cut out for that.
As far as catching up to vets, no, you will never have the amount of skill points they have. That doesn't mean you can't fly what they fly, after some time. Being a vet just means you have more options, whereas a newer character should specialize in something they like at frist. If you specialize you will be caught up to a vet in no time. It's not like a vet can fly 10 ships at the same time.
"Like Cognac and foreign movies."
Oh man, those damn interwebz.
meh, i have gotten into the habit of not getting into games that are well established. Especially ones with retarded drama, takes the fun out of it. I don't like learning curves that look like this either:
Eve being the black ofcourse:
It is not a myth. There is a huge difference between someone who has billions of ISK and 100 million skillpoints compared to someone who has millions of ISK and only 5 million skillpoints. HUGE!
That does not mean that the latter one cannot do stuff but to believe that they are on equal footing is just delusional.
My gaming blog
True. If Eve was all low and null sec then it would not have 1/10 of the subscriber base it currently has. Gotta love the irony in that...
My gaming blog
When i started EVE online i was working nightshift security where i was so bored i needed something to do. So I leanred every aspect of EVE online without even playing it. Then when i started to play it...it was easy.
So yeah I would not be playign EVE today if it wasnt for my night shift job
Playing: PO, EVE
Waiting for: WoD
Favourite MMOs: VG, EVE, FE and DDO
Any person who expresses rage and loathing for an MMO is preposterous. He or she is like a person who has put on full armor and attacked a hot fudge sundae.
That image is so funny, because it is SO TRUE!
undefined
Keep on rockin'!
No, that isn't your problem. Premature judgement is:
One of the most important assets in EVE is knowledge - wealth or skill points are not even close.
Unlike Darkfall, EVE has skill caps and it is fairly easy to catch up in specialization.
You can do easily pretty much anything in EVE solo, the list of things you truly cannot do is fairly short - territorial warfare and some high lvl content.
Just because you do not how to do it, does not mean it is impossible.
The game is easy to understand, it isn't complex but just hidden behind a horrible cluster fuck of a UI and it's so repetitive it gets boring so quickly. To make money in this game through most avenues is doing the same boring task over and over again. People will say you can make money via PVP but the truth is you'll be owned as a new player and if you are lucky enough to find a corp, they'll never replace your ship so either way you'll have to get money yourself. So the only way you're making money and that is via PVE or mining or something, you wont compete in PVP and you wont compete with people on the market.
They need to bring the alliance tournament style of PVP into the game, fair fights that you and your mates can go up against other groups, all balanced and fair. Problem with EVEs PVP now is you'll never come across a fair fight, it's all ganking. To me EVEs PVP doesn't require any skill, it's all automated so the deciding factor already has happened before the fight. It'll either be ship type vs ship type or who has the most ships wins. As it's not twitch based or a frigate could never take down a battleship and vice versa, you cannot use skill in PVP. So normally it's just throw as many ships as you can and you'll never get 1 v 1 where you prove your skill up against someone else.
I would like to see Arena (Alliance Tournament) like WoW has because it's fair fights, you move up the rankings and prove your skill against other people. There is nothing skillful about 0.0 in EVE, small gangs is slightly better but it's still 99% of the time ganking. They need to fix these things before I get into it, I really loved 2003 when you'd only ever come up against 1 or 2 people which made PVP fun. Now the games so busy that it'll always be unfair fights and it sucks.
I doubt this will ever happen I mean the UI has needed a massive overhaul for years but CCP don't seem to care.
Sadly not easy enough for you.
I suggest you actually go and play the game instead of making those vain assumptions.
Also, absence of arena like PVP is not a problem nor it needs to be fixed.
I'm sure knowledge is important, but I honestly don't see how becoming "competitive" in Eve doesn't involve a pretty long grind.. Even if I knew exactly what to do in Eve, I really don't think I could get around having to mine or do some other tedious task for days upon days before I could even think about playing with the "big boys." And even then...I would be a relatively small fish in a big pond and never really be able to compete with the "real" big boys. You also have to consider that anyone in Eve who is remotely competitive probably has the same knowledge you do.
Contrast this with Starcraft 2 where I bought the game, watched a lot of pro-gamer replays to learn strategy, practiced, and then made it to diamond league in like 2 weeks. This is a game where knowledge and skill make the difference.
I guess my problem is that when a game is essentially about "competition and dominance" like Eve is, I don't want to be forced into a losing role just by lack of grinding. I LOVE the sandbox concept, but I hate how it's always about big fish eating smaller fish.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Actually it has already been fixed with RvB and CCP supporting them with ingame adds. I consider that to be kinda "arenaish".
"EVE is likely the best MMORPG that you've never really understood or played" - Kyleran
Long, tedious grind? Well, if you cannot think of some other way...
Only limit in EVE is yourself and reading your lines, you put those limits really low.
sorry but that's BS. you simply have to wait for skills in EvE, so actaully TIME is the limiting factor in EvE.....unless of course you buy an account, which is illegal.
Seems you didn't read my post so well this time around, Yamo.
My brand new bloggity blog.
Fair enough. The treshold is pretty steep compared to just about any other game but people that say that you will never be able to catch up and compete with older chars aren't truthful in my opinion.
My brand new bloggity blog.
I always used 5 probes. There is an art to scanning down complexes in EVE. You also need to enjoy doing it and invest significant training time into it or it isn't worth it. Training into t2 frigs and getting all the scanning skills to 4 or 5 is a must. Also invest in some Sisters probes, so longs as you aren't prone to leaving them behind.
Free to play = content updates for the cash shop. Buy to play = content updates for the cash shop.
Subscription = Actual content updates!
To OP, if I remember correctly you need 4 probes not 3. there is your 0.1% your missing.
Read through some of the reply's and yes, the chess of mmo's, a thinking mans game. Very rewarding once the curve has been tackled.
Eve is for casual gamers aswell. I am very much a casual gamer ( 3-4 hours aday, sometimes miss a day. is that casual?) and I stil very much enjoy the game.
Stick at it give it ago.