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Exactly how are chests that can only be unlocked via buying keys in the Cash shop NOT Pay 2 win?

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  • AsheramAsheram San Diego, CAPosts: 1,989Member Uncommon

    How is your crusade going?

    image
  • rungardrungard st. john''s, NFPosts: 1,035Member

    i would imagine that you have to be a little flexible given that well all be playing the game for free.

    They have to make some money. As long as there implementations of this arent totally obscene i have no issues with it.

    We do get to play for free after all.

     

  • gainesvilleggainesvilleg Gainesville, FLPosts: 1,053Member

    Originally posted by st4t1ck

    Originally posted by gainesvilleg


    Originally posted by c-tray


    Originally posted by gainesvilleg


    Originally posted by dagon3

    We need to just get rid of free to play all together go back to the way it was , pay your 50 cents a day for your monthly sub , then all this bullshit talk and arguing will be over with .

    Good ole pay and play !

    Anyone else agree ?

    I actually 100% agree.  And I would be willing to up the subscription to $50 a month for a truly worthy game.  The very crass cash shop mechanics just need to go, along with the pay2win.

    I'm not a fan of cash shops either, however dragon3's comment makes me laugh/cry (ok mostly shocked). It's like don't ask any question just pay. Just hook you guys up to the machine and let the money flow...I like it.

    Much better than the annoying cash shop and the many in-game tweaks the developers do to get you to go to the cash shop.  Very immersion breaking.  GW2 should just put a sign on top of the mystic chests you find that say "Please visit the cash shop TODAY!"

    I would gladly just pay the monthly fee to ensure I don't need to see these annoying in-game advertisements or have to worry if I am keeping up with the pay2win Joneses.  It isn't the actual money that I care about, it is the effect on the mechanics of the game and needing to actually consider out-of-game cash shop in your min/maxing.

    A subscription fee is so darn cheap I don't see why gamers are offended by it.  If anything, maybe it will get the annoying 12 year olds without credit cards out of the game so the MMO can support more complex game mechanics.  Not to be a classist here, but my cable bill alone is over $200 a month why would I care about a piddly subscription fee?  Many of the people that can't handle this fee are what is dumbing down the complexity of MMOs in the first place.  Sorry but its a fact.  We always have EVE though ha.  The one adult game in the MMO marketplace.

    why cant you just gladly play something else,  For as much time as you piss and moan about the game you would think you just wouldnt buy it and P2P something that you like.

     

    True, but I also like talking about gaming and the theory of it.  I hate the direction Anet is taking the payment model.  They have basically usurped the F2P model and are charging you $60 for it.  I'm offended by this actually LOL.  I get worked up about gaming as it is my primary hobby.

    GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
    1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
    2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements

  • st4t1ckst4t1ck jonesboro, GAPosts: 600Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by gainesvilleg

    Originally posted by st4t1ck


    Originally posted by gainesvilleg


    Originally posted by c-tray


    Originally posted by gainesvilleg


    Originally posted by dagon3

    We need to just get rid of free to play all together go back to the way it was , pay your 50 cents a day for your monthly sub , then all this bullshit talk and arguing will be over with .

    Good ole pay and play !

    Anyone else agree ?

    I actually 100% agree.  And I would be willing to up the subscription to $50 a month for a truly worthy game.  The very crass cash shop mechanics just need to go, along with the pay2win.

    I'm not a fan of cash shops either, however dragon3's comment makes me laugh/cry (ok mostly shocked). It's like don't ask any question just pay. Just hook you guys up to the machine and let the money flow...I like it.

    Much better than the annoying cash shop and the many in-game tweaks the developers do to get you to go to the cash shop.  Very immersion breaking.  GW2 should just put a sign on top of the mystic chests you find that say "Please visit the cash shop TODAY!"

    I would gladly just pay the monthly fee to ensure I don't need to see these annoying in-game advertisements or have to worry if I am keeping up with the pay2win Joneses.  It isn't the actual money that I care about, it is the effect on the mechanics of the game and needing to actually consider out-of-game cash shop in your min/maxing.

    A subscription fee is so darn cheap I don't see why gamers are offended by it.  If anything, maybe it will get the annoying 12 year olds without credit cards out of the game so the MMO can support more complex game mechanics.  Not to be a classist here, but my cable bill alone is over $200 a month why would I care about a piddly subscription fee?  Many of the people that can't handle this fee are what is dumbing down the complexity of MMOs in the first place.  Sorry but its a fact.  We always have EVE though ha.  The one adult game in the MMO marketplace.

    why cant you just gladly play something else,  For as much time as you piss and moan about the game you would think you just wouldnt buy it and P2P something that you like.

     

    True, but I also like talking about gaming and the theory of it.  I hate the direction Anet is taking the payment model.  They have basically usurped the F2P model and are charging you $60 for it.  I'm offended by this actually LOL.  I get worked up about gaming as it is my primary hobby.

    I dont agree.  there's nothing in the cash shop that p2w and the gold-gem-exchange works all ways,   if you buy a lot of diamons and sell them for gold, the person that bought them can chose to do the same thing. 

    the guild buffs in WvW will be obtainable by just having a guild that does stuff in world vs world.  you cant spam buffs or have 100 buffs on at once or something.

    the thing i wanna see the most in the game is someone raging after they spent 200$ and still cant "win" pvp

  • moosecatlolmoosecatlol Boring, TXPosts: 1,171Member Uncommon

    You earn keys from story quest, try again.

  • tinuelletinuelle bergenPosts: 287Member Uncommon

    I dont really differentiate between pay to win vs. play to win. Its just a battle between those that have lots of money and those that have lots of spare time. I hate em both, since I prefer the skill to win category of games, with terrible deathpenalties (like when you die your HD is formated etc.).

    And chests that you need to first find, and then visit the cash shop to open is the most horrible combination of pay and play to win I've ever seen! If it was only pay 2 win, you could buy the damn chest in the cash shop! But as how i see it, they require you to go and find it first............ that means I have to invest time into finding it...........finding that shit better not involve any skill!

    image
  • KhetnenKhetnen Athens, GAPosts: 16Member

    because you do not need to use the cs, you can open them with karma (in-game currency other than gold) via some golem thing.   (this info is only based on leaks)

    If thats not good enough, you can buy gems for gold.

    image

  • steeler989steeler989 Farmington, MNPosts: 665Member

    I would love to know the source you got this from!

    image
    image

  • RefMinorRefMinor MyTownPosts: 3,452Member
    Originally posted by gainesvilleg


    Originally posted by dagon3

    We need to just get rid of free to play all together go back to the way it was , pay your 50 cents a day for your monthly sub , then all this bullshit talk and arguing will be over with .
    Good ole pay and play !
    Anyone else agree ?

    I actually 100% agree.  And I would be willing to up the subscription to $50 a month for a truly worthy game.  The very crass cash shop mechanics just need to go, along with the pay2win.

     

    I agree, I am amazed people seem to think that Anet have created their system to discourage people from buying things, the truth will out.
  • MMOarQQMMOarQQ BoogalululuPosts: 636Member

    I'm starting to feel like Bill Murray in Groundhog Day.

    Is there a one a day quota for these threads?

  • thinktank001thinktank001 oasisPosts: 2,027Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Celcius

    Since so many people will be undercutting eachother in order to sell the gems cheaper, the market for gems will be determined by players, not the developers or goldsellers.

     

    This is absolutely ridiculous.   It is a fact that less than 10% of the users will be purchasing gems, and I would argue it will probably be less with GW2, since everyone was expecting it to be B2P.  Nothing like pissed off players to drive your sales down even more.  Do you really think gem sellers are willing to undercut each other when 90% of the server is looking to buy gems?

     

    To put it in a simple supply/demand aspect. 

    - Gems;  limited supply

    - Gold; infinite supply

    What do you think will be the more valuable?

  • Fir3lineFir3line LisbonPosts: 767Member

    oh, I opened a mystic chest aswell, i got 3 potions that would change me to a leopard, that couldnt jump and had no ability.

     

    I really felt the P2W kicking in.

     

    Seriously ppl, you got no clue of what's inside those chest, stop raving about it, you'll know from the betas soon enough and then can judge it accordingly

    "I am not a robot. I am a unicorn."

  • TheTrueKingTheTrueKing San Antonio, TXPosts: 427Member

    Originally posted by st4t1ck

    Originally posted by gainesvilleg

    True, but I also like talking about gaming and the theory of it.  I hate the direction Anet is taking the payment model.  They have basically usurped the F2P model and are charging you $60 for it.  I'm offended by this actually LOL.  I get worked up about gaming as it is my primary hobby.

    I dont agree.  there's nothing in the cash shop that p2w and the gold-gem-exchange works all ways,   if you buy a lot of diamons and sell them for gold, the person that bought them can chose to do the same thing. 

    the guild buffs in WvW will be obtainable by just having a guild that does stuff in world vs world.  you cant spam buffs or have 100 buffs on at once or something.

    the thing i wanna see the most in the game is someone raging after they spent 200$ and still cant "win" pvp

    someone blindly arguing a point that has no foundation (sticking fingers in ears, closing eyes, and blow raspberries) You can't logically reason with someone who refuses to see logic and continues to allow themselves to be blinded by their hatred to cash shops.

     

    The cash shop does not offer anything that can not be purchased with in game currency!!!! Those who play a lot will have more of an advantage over those who spend money because the exchange in which you get gold for gems is based on supply of gold and demand.  GOLD is the most valued currency not GEMS.

     

    I'm a full time gamer and I'm extremely passionate about video games and the video game market.  When ALLODS put in a FORCED cash shop = a true pay 2 win, not some absurd excuse most here are trying to put on GW2, I boycotted Gpotato because they were forcing everyone to purchase a cash shop item for EVERY DEATH.  Now the game is truly a pay 2 win giving you upgrades to your armor and weapons via cash shop only.  GUILD WARS 2 Does not have this at all period.

    I've boycott games before because of the greedy tactics they push with their cash shops but I do not blindly ignorantly push an idea on uneducated bias hatred for "Cash shops" entirely.  Infact I welcome a model that does it correctly.

     

    I plan on putting in a full time schedule, similar to a full time work week in Structured PvP in an E-Sport PVP group.  I can be happy that no matter what My group will feel no disadvantage against ANYONE who puts $200-$1000 in the cash shop hell they could spend $1mill dollars in GW2 cash shop and they still will not have an advantage worth spitting at over my team.  SKILL will be the only factor period.  If you beat us it'll be because your better not because you used the cash shop to upgrade your armor or weapons or gained a boost that could be increased to a point where we couldn't damage you....

     

    and for gods sake how hard is it to get it thru ones mind that GW2 has WvW not RvR...

  • AethaerynAethaeryn Kitchener, ONPosts: 1,973Member Uncommon

    Fallen Earth has a similar system.  They keys can also be found in game. . the chests drop simple mats or cosmetic items.

    Not sure how GW2 will work but it certainly does not mean pay to win.

    Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!

  • UnlightUnlight Ottawa, ONPosts: 2,540Member

    Keys can only be obtained for gems, huh? 

    Probably one of the more feeble attacks from the under-the-bridge crew I've seen.  Shape up guys.  Release day is approaching and people are still wanting to play the game.  You're efforts to incite are becoming increasingly pathetic.

  • moosecatlolmoosecatlol Boring, TXPosts: 1,171Member Uncommon

    Also something to remember is that everything that you know about the game is subject change.

  • SlampigSlampig Chantilly, VAPosts: 2,376Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by BilboDoggins

    I would like to see how anyone can logically come to the conclusion that chests which can only be unlocked by buying keys from the cash shop isnt Pay 2 win.

     

    Cuz i dont think anyone can and if they do claim its not Pay 2 win I think they are being willfully ignorant and/or intellectually dishonest.

     

    So lets hear it. Defend this obvious pay 2 win scam.

    Well what is inside these chests?

    That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!

  • KingJigglyKingJiggly Simpsonville, SCPosts: 777Member
    Remember, in game gold can be traded with other players for Gems which are used in the Cash Shop to buy their wares. So technically, while it can be Pay to Win (I'll have to see what is in it) not everyone has to truly "pay" to win. Supply and demand folks, supply and demand.
  • ComfyChairComfyChair BirminghamPosts: 758Member

    Just to answer the title in a really simple way that basically renders any further discussion (and most previous) moot:

     

    If they're cosmetic weapons with the same max stats as any other max weapon. We know for a fact the best 'max' stats can be simply bought from a merchant, the rest is cosmetic.

     

    Simple!

  • NaqajNaqaj Frankfurt am MainPosts: 1,673Member

    Originally posted by ComfyChair

    Just o answer the title in a really simple way that basically renders any further discussion (and most previous) moot:

     

    If they're cosmetic weapons with the same max stats as any other max weapon. We know for a fact the best 'max' stats can be simply bought from a merchant, the rest is cosmetic.

     

    Simple!

    Even simpler. There are no weapons or armor at all in those boxes.

  • cyress8cyress8 Croatia, VTPosts: 832Member

    Originally posted by Naqaj

    Originally posted by ComfyChair

    Just o answer the title in a really simple way that basically renders any further discussion (and most previous) moot:

     

    If they're cosmetic weapons with the same max stats as any other max weapon. We know for a fact the best 'max' stats can be simply bought from a merchant, the rest is cosmetic.

     

    Simple!

    Even simpler. There are no weapons or armor at all in those boxes.

    What?!?  No truthfulness allowed in this thread, sir.

    BOOYAKA!

  • asianbboy101asianbboy101 what, MNPosts: 82Member

    Originally posted by RefMinor

    Originally posted by gainesvilleg

    Originally posted by dagon3

    We need to just get rid of free to play all together go back to the way it was , pay your 50 cents a day for your monthly sub , then all this bullshit talk and arguing will be over with .

    Good ole pay and play !

    Anyone else agree ?

    I actually 100% agree.  And I would be willing to up the subscription to $50 a month for a truly worthy game.  The very crass cash shop mechanics just need to go, along with the pay2win.

     

    I agree, I am amazed people seem to think that Anet have created their system to discourage people from buying things, the truth will out.

    No matter how much you guys wish, f2p games along with cash shops, micro, rmt and so forth are HERE TO STAY. As long its a proven business model..it's not going anywhere, not matter how much you minor folks complain. We hear you loud and clear, time to move on and accept the reality.

    My guess is that people who play f2p [such as maplestory, perfect world, league of lends, Wizard 101, um..farmville anyone, etc] heavily outpopulate those who would play subbed games. So, there is a market out there and it won't disappear.

    Think about those games who might've not gone f2p, would they still be around? I highly doubt it. LOTRO, Age of Conan, D&D would've shut down. Except LOTRO, I think they could've still stayed in sub model and still be successful.

    Cash shops/microtranscations/rmt/etc are the future and its here to stay. So, LETS ALL EMBRACE the platform. image

  • romanator0romanator0 Glendora, CAPosts: 2,382Member

    Originally posted by RefMinor

    Originally posted by gainesvilleg

    Originally posted by dagon3

    We need to just get rid of free to play all together go back to the way it was , pay your 50 cents a day for your monthly sub , then all this bullshit talk and arguing will be over with .

    Good ole pay and play !

    Anyone else agree ?

    I actually 100% agree.  And I would be willing to up the subscription to $50 a month for a truly worthy game.  The very crass cash shop mechanics just need to go, along with the pay2win.

     

    I agree, I am amazed people seem to think that Anet have created their system to discourage people from buying things, the truth will out.

    Yeah, 'cause wanting people to buy things is sooooo money-grubbing and greedy.

    image

  • RizelStarRizelStar Raleigh, NCPosts: 2,773Member
    Originally posted by TheTrueKing


    Originally posted by st4t1ck


    Originally posted by gainesvilleg
    True, but I also like talking about gaming and the theory of it.  I hate the direction Anet is taking the payment model.  They have basically usurped the F2P model and are charging you $60 for it.  I'm offended by this actually LOL.  I get worked up about gaming as it is my primary hobby.

    I dont agree.  there's nothing in the cash shop that p2w and the gold-gem-exchange works all ways,   if you buy a lot of diamons and sell them for gold, the person that bought them can chose to do the same thing. 

    the guild buffs in WvW will be obtainable by just having a guild that does stuff in world vs world.  you cant spam buffs or have 100 buffs on at once or something.

    the thing i wanna see the most in the game is someone raging after they spent 200$ and still cant "win" pvp

    someone blindly arguing a point that has no foundation (sticking fingers in ears, closing eyes, and blow raspberries) You can't logically reason with someone who refuses to see logic and continues to allow themselves to be blinded by their hatred to cash shops.

     

    The cash shop does not offer anything that can not be purchased with in game currency!!!! Those who play a lot will have more of an advantage over those who spend money because the exchange in which you get gold for gems is based on supply of gold and demand.  GOLD is the most valued currency not GEMS.

     

    I'm a full time gamer and I'm extremely passionate about video games and the video game market.  When ALLODS put in a FORCED cash shop = a true pay 2 win, not some absurd excuse most here are trying to put on GW2, I boycotted Gpotato because they were forcing everyone to purchase a cash shop item for EVERY DEATH.  Now the game is truly a pay 2 win giving you upgrades to your armor and weapons via cash shop only.  GUILD WARS 2 Does not have this at all period.

    I've boycott games before because of the greedy tactics they push with their cash shops but I do not blindly ignorantly push an idea on uneducated bias hatred for "Cash shops" entirely.  Infact I welcome a model that does it correctly.

     

    I plan on putting in a full time schedule, similar to a full time work week in Structured PvP in an E-Sport PVP group.  I can be happy that no matter what My group will feel no disadvantage against ANYONE who puts $200-$1000 in the cash shop hell they could spend $1mill dollars in GW2 cash shop and they still will not have an advantage worth spitting at over my team.  SKILL will be the only factor period.  If you beat us it'll be because your better not because you used the cash shop to upgrade your armor or weapons or gained a boost that could be increased to a point where we couldn't damage you....

     

    and for gods sake how hard is it to get it thru ones mind that GW2 has WvW not RvR...

     

    I swear I wish I could pay for an higher iq and some rl skills that make me unbeatable in this game. The sad thing about pve is no one can do nothing to ruin your experience. Scaling down does that itself. WvWvW has been stressed enough, it's matched and stuff found in pve is majority cosmetic and you won't find leet ish in the chest. Pvp maybe? Hell no lol.

    I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.

    I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.

    P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)

    Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,905Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Zzad

    Keys to unlock those chests also drop in game.

    Link to that info?

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

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