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Why such strong feelings about SWTOR?

TROLL_HARDTROLL_HARD Caucasian/WhitePosts: 312Member

This game has way many more threads than you would think for a mediocre game launched back in December.

 

I went to the original Star Wars movie when it launched in the summer of 1977. Star Wars has been a part of our culture for 35 years. That's a long time  in relation to pop culture and media. 

 

In my opinion, this IP goes beyond Lucas Arts and EA's legal rights to it, in the public mind at least, if not legally. It has become a part of the popular culture.  A lot of people don't like what's been done to it and how it's been exploited. So people are responding to SWTOR as something beyond the genre of mmorpgs.

 

If this was just a shoddy game issue, people would be done with it by now and move on to other games to talk about. But that doesn't seem to be the case here.

 

Why do you think people are responding so strongly to SWTOR, either positively or negatively? How do you feel about the way Lucas Arts and EA have dealt with this IP?

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Comments

  • RaysheRayshe London, ONPosts: 1,284Member

    Most people feel that SWTOR took their childhood dreams and wiped their ass with it. The hate usually comes from something not being up to their standard. people followed and got very excited about this game and when they got in they realized it wasnt that ground breaking at all. Quite the opposate really. My hate for the game is done which is why i havent been attacking it much lately. however if you start going though the posts on the forums you will noticed that attention is being shifted away from SWTOR hate and towards GW2 hate. Those who strongly support GW2 are suddenly on the defencive, same as SWTOR does. This is called the Path of a MMORPG. Haters VS Fanboys + People who enjoy the game but dont hit Fanboy levels. happens every time. nothing to be worried about.

     

    in the end it comes down to, if you enjoy the game play it. dont stop because a bunch of people on a forum tell you to. Playing by their example will only hurt you later.

    Because i can.
    I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
    Logic every gamers worst enemy.

  • superniceguysuperniceguy AnchorheadPosts: 2,278Member Uncommon

    2 million sales on a mediocre game = a lot of complaints / negativity

    2 million sales on a good game = less comments as people too busy playing

    That is why SWTOR has loads of threads for a mediocre game

  • MetentsoMetentso BarcelonaPosts: 1,436Member Common

    I think it has more to do with Bioware arrogance and hype during development. This backlashes.

  • RobsolfRobsolf Grand Rapids, MIPosts: 4,247Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by LadyNoh

    Most people feel that SWTOR took their childhood dreams and wiped their ass with it. The hate usually comes from something not being up to their standard. people followed and got very excited about this game and when they got in they realized it wasnt that ground breaking at all. Quite the opposate really. My hate for the game is done which is why i havent been attacking it much lately. however if you start going though the posts on the forums you will noticed that attention is being shifted away from SWTOR hate and towards GW2 hate. Those who strongly support GW2 are suddenly on the defencive, same as SWTOR does. This is called the Path of a MMORPG. Haters VS Fanboys + People who enjoy the game but dont hit Fanboy levels. happens every time. nothing to be worried about.

     in the end it comes down to, if you enjoy the game play it. dont stop because a bunch of people on a forum tell you to. Playing by their example will only hurt you later.

    Sounds about right to me, though the game did live up to my expectations.

    There is some extra butt-hurt over the fact that the game does use an extremely popular IP, and so long as its alive, there will be no other serious SW MMO.  So if you don't like this one, there will be no more living in the SW universe for you...

    So I can understand some of the frustration, having watched Star Trek, Champions, and soon Neverwinter Nights be developed into games that are often "meh", at best.  Folks who wanted to "live" in these IP's are doomed to a less than stellar experience, or none at all.

    But, as I've said many times, why many make a career out of bashing it or any other game instead of just accepting that it's not for them and moving on, finding something they WOULD like, continues to elude me.

     

  • CrackboneCrackbone Covington, KYPosts: 212Member

    Largest Development Cost + Star Wars + Bioware CGI trailers and hype, and here we are. 

     

     

  • ElikalElikal ValhallaPosts: 7,906Member Uncommon

    Ok, I have to admit, I have strong feelings about SWTOR, negative one, and more than with any other MMO.

    I have been a Star Wars fan for 25 years or so, so for me living in a Star Wars persistent online world was a dream since I was a kid. Now with the Bioware super stories and 100-300 million Dollars involved I expected it to be THE UBER MMO! And by all we know about MMOs and what works and what doesn't by all means it SHOULD have been the uber MMO. I like SWG a lot, it was the way best time I ever had in a MMO, and even though I liked a general themepark approach now, the fact SWTOR took NOTHING, not a single thing from SWG, and didn't make a themepark/sandbox mix, but the purest themepark ever, which even makes WOW look like a sandbox, angers me to no end. We have so much experience with MMOs in 2012, we know so many things, so many possible ways to make a MMO cool, and Bioware learned from NONE of them.

    All these things make me considerably more angry about SWTOR and Bioware than any other game.

    People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert

  • RefMinorRefMinor MyTownPosts: 3,452Member
    When a major studio takes a fantastic IP, 200m dollars and 5 years to produce something so un-star wars-y, so badly implemented, so mediocre and quite frankly so unambitious then the answer to the question does it deserve the hate is YES.
  • TardcoreTardcore MinskPosts: 2,325Member

    Originally posted by TROLL_HARD

    This game has way many more threads than you would think for a mediocre game launched back in December.

     

    I went to the original Star Wars movie when it launched in the summer of 1977. Star Wars has been a part of our culture for 35 years. That's a long time  in relation to pop culture and media. 

     

    In my opinion, this IP goes beyond Lucas Arts and EA's legal rights to it, in the public mind at least, if not legally. It has become a part of the popular culture.  A lot of people don't like what's been done to it and how it's been exploited. So people are responding to SWTOR as something beyond the genre of mmorpgs.

     

    If this was just a shoddy game issue, people would be done with it by now and move on to other games to talk about. But that doesn't seem to be the case here.

     

    Why do you think people are responding so strongly to SWTOR, either positively or negatively? How do you feel about the way Lucas Arts and EA have dealt with this IP?

    About the same as I did at the end of the film "Old Yeller."

    image

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  • goldiewilsongoldiewilson Baton Rogue, LAPosts: 90Member

    People wanted an mmorpg made about Star Wars for Star Wars fans, not a WOW clone that looks sort of  like Star Wars but is made to attract Everquest Fans, not Star Wars fans. Now if they had made a game Called Everquest 3 and said you will be able to dungeon hop and get leet gear, there will be auction houses in town and mailboxes everywhere and large 100 foot raid bosses, those fans would probably get exited. BUT when on the SWTOR forums a few years ago they said you will get to kill 100 foot raid bosses and there will be mail boxes and you will be able to run around town and jump a lot, oh and its gear grind based so no making your own lightsaber because were throwing lore out the window so large raiding guilds From Everquest will be happy, your welcome. Yeh when they decided to do that, they sealed this games fate. Also STAR wars, and no space exploration or combat, great idea geniuses. Thats like having a fantasy mmorpg without Swords.

  • SpallieroSpalliero Fresno, CAPosts: 147Member
    Its just another exploited ip, sure I'm a fan of the ip, I am a fan of warhammer fant and 40k. Ea and thq a couple of mediocre company's. They do get stuff out that's good but very seldom. I love reckoning and enjoyed darksiders.
    Bottom line to answer op, people have parts of their lives influenced by star wars and don't like it's current iteration. Ea/bioware exploited the ip.

    Sic Luceat Lux

  • Cthulhu23Cthulhu23 Tempe, AZPosts: 994Member

    Some of it is the fact that it's a very popular game.  Haters will have you believe that it is dying a slow death.  It is not.  It's very popular, but appeals to more of a casual themepark and newer MMO player.  This does not sit well with the community on mmorpg.com, because many of the players here are MMO hipsters and snobs.  Old school MMOers who believe that UO and Everquest, not World of Warcraft, are the pinnacle of the genre. 

    Some of it is Electronic Arts, which doesn't have a great reputation amongst gamers.  

    Some of it is themepark model taken to an extreme.  This angers the folks who like more freedom in their games.

    Some of it is the IP itself.  Many folks felt Bioware should have taken the huge budget they had and made something truly revolutionary in order to live up to the Star Wars name.  So many folks feel it was a lost opportunity, and are angry at Bioware/EA for taking the "safe" road instead of taking risks, even if it means less subscriptions as a result.

    And then, of course, some of it is just malicious hating.  I don't like the game that you like, so that makes you wrong.  Therefore, I'll need to spend precious moments of my day trashing the game that you play in order to remind you how wrong you are.  This kind of thing happens with every game.  But games like WoW and TOR get it the worst because of all the other factors I listed--popularity being a big part of that. 

     

  • waynejr2waynejr2 West Toluca Lake, CAPosts: 4,474Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Robsolf

    Originally posted by LadyNoh

    Most people feel that SWTOR took their childhood dreams and wiped their ass with it. The hate usually comes from something not being up to their standard. people followed and got very excited about this game and when they got in they realized it wasnt that ground breaking at all. Quite the opposate really. My hate for the game is done which is why i havent been attacking it much lately. however if you start going though the posts on the forums you will noticed that attention is being shifted away from SWTOR hate and towards GW2 hate. Those who strongly support GW2 are suddenly on the defencive, same as SWTOR does. This is called the Path of a MMORPG. Haters VS Fanboys + People who enjoy the game but dont hit Fanboy levels. happens every time. nothing to be worried about.

     in the end it comes down to, if you enjoy the game play it. dont stop because a bunch of people on a forum tell you to. Playing by their example will only hurt you later.

    Sounds about right to me, though the game did live up to my expectations.

    There is some extra butt-hurt over the fact that the game does use an extremely popular IP, and so long as its alive, there will be no other serious SW MMO.  So if you don't like this one, there will be no more living in the SW universe for you...

    So I can understand some of the frustration, having watched Star Trek, Champions, and soon Neverwinter Nights be developed into games that are often "meh", at best.  Folks who wanted to "live" in these IP's are doomed to a less than stellar experience, or none at all.

    But, as I've said many times, why many make a career out of bashing it or any other game instead of just accepting that it's not for them and moving on, finding something they WOULD like, continues to elude me.

     

    You can't forget the butt-sore swgers who will never grow up and just move on from their NGE hatred and who are putting on swtor.

  • KalferKalfer HappylandPosts: 779Member

    I think lots of bad choices have been made with Star Wars over the last 15 years in movies, tv and games. Also some good ones, but  a lot of bad ones. 

  • olepiolepi Austin, TXPosts: 1,150Member Uncommon

    My response to SWTOR was about the same as to STO: both of these IP's were favorites since they came out. In both cases, the game made from the IP was not true to the IP. In Star Trek, diplomacy, not fighting, was the main activity. STO is totally focused on fighting, a direct opposite of the true IP.

    SWTOR to me is also opposite of the true IP.  The tragedy is that while STO and SWTOR are active, no decent games will be made for those IP's. It was obvious in STO's case that the developers were not up to the job, and did it on the cheap.

    But for SWTOR, they didn't do it on the cheap. The developers are from one of the last best studios. The IP was cherished for generations. And the game is still mediocre.

    Like an inert gas, these games are not poisonous, they are not total losses. But, like an inert gas, they displace the oxygen you need to live, they occupy positions that prevent really good games from being made from that IP. Not poisonous, but still fatal.

    ------------
    RIP City of Heroes. One of my favorite MMO's.

  • ElminzterElminzter MelbournePosts: 202Member

    everyone hates a copy cat, nothing original at all and why wouldnt everyone hate it.......

    only difference is the name swtor vs wow

  • MindTriggerMindTrigger La Quinta, CAPosts: 2,596Member

    The saddest part of SWTOR, in my opinion, is that the MMO rights to this IP are tied up in what amounts to a single player (coop at best) game instead of a true MMORPG.    I'm over the fact that the game sucks.  Now I just wish the IP wasn't locked down for the next 5+ years so someone else can take a crack at it.

    I think this may very well be the last Star Wars MMO though.  I grew up with it and love it as much as anyone else does, but the fact is that these generations coming up now don't care much about it.  At least not like we do.  If Lucas didn't suck, he could have gave it more legs with really good prequals, but all we got were mediocre prequels with stale characters at best.

    Right now the closest thing there is to a modern day Star Wars intellectual property would be Harry Potter, and I don't know of any plans to make that an MMO.  James Cameron thought he was making the next "Star Wars" in spirit with Avatar, but times have change.  The world isn't as much about massively shared media experiences like we had as kids in the 70's and 80's.  It's now about niche markets and smaller cultural group experiences.  Blockbusters here and there, sure.  Cultural movie icons that persist for decades?  I doubt it will ever happen again.

    This is the same reason there will never be another huge band like Led Zeppelin, The Beatles or any other older iconic bands.  Niche is where it's at and I don't see that changing unless the world collapses and we revert to a pre-technology state again.

    A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.

  • PelaajaPelaaja HevonkuusiPosts: 697Member

    Originally posted by Cthulhu23

    This does not sit well with the community on mmorpg.com, because many of the players here are MMO hipsters and snobs. 

    If the mmorpg.com community is so appalling to you, why do you want to be part of it (us)? Hypocrisy much...

    I haven't got past the fact that this game would've been awesome if BW had followed the SW:Jedi Academy instead of WoW in gameplay. They could've made it APB+Tera+KOTOR, but because their focus was on money they took too safe road and dribbled to a pebble (pebble being uninnovative bugridden mountain).

    I hope this try dies out fast enough for the next contender to step up and give SW universe a chance.

    image

  • RefMinorRefMinor MyTownPosts: 3,452Member
    Originally posted by Pelaaja


    Originally posted by Cthulhu23

    This does not sit well with the community on mmorpg.com, because many of the players here are MMO hipsters and snobs. 

    If the mmorpg.com community is so appalling to you, why do you want to be part of it (us)? Hypocrisy much...

    I haven't got past the fact that this game would've been awesome if BW had followed the SW:Jedi Academy instead of WoW in gameplay. They could've made it APB+Tera+KOTOR, but because their focus was on money they took too safe road and dribbled to a pebble (pebble being uninnovative bugridden mountain).

    I hope this try dies out fast enough for the next contender to step up and give SW universe a chance.

     

    If being an MMO hipster and snob is thinking you are better than SWTOR then I am guilty and happy.
  • RizelStarRizelStar Raleigh, NCPosts: 2,773Member

    Originally posted by Pelaaja

    Originally posted by Cthulhu23

    This does not sit well with the community on mmorpg.com, because many of the players here are MMO hipsters and snobs. 

    If the mmorpg.com community is so appalling to you, why do you want to be part of it (us)? Hypocrisy much...

    I haven't got past the fact that this game would've been awesome if BW had followed the SW:Jedi Academy instead of WoW in gameplay. They could've made it APB+Tera+KOTOR, but because their focus was on money they took too safe road and dribbled to a pebble (pebble being uninnovative bugridden mountain).

    I hope this try dies out fast enough for the next contender to step up and give SW universe a chance.

    Would of been awesome IMO.

     

    I looked at jedi academy combat videos, looks like engaging gameplay.

    I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.

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  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member

    Originally posted by Pelaaja

    Originally posted by Cthulhu23

    This does not sit well with the community on mmorpg.com, because many of the players here are MMO hipsters and snobs. 

    If the mmorpg.com community is so appalling to you, why do you want to be part of it (us)? Hypocrisy much...

    I haven't got past the fact that this game would've been awesome if BW had followed the SW:Jedi Academy instead of WoW in gameplay. They could've made it APB+Tera+KOTOR, but because their focus was on money they took too safe road and dribbled to a pebble (pebble being uninnovative bugridden mountain).

    I hope this try dies out fast enough for the next contender to step up and give SW universe a chance.

    Jedi Academy meets kotor for leveling / pve

    starwars themed planetside for pvp

    Xwing vs TieFighter for space pve/pvp

    SWG for RP & crafting

    Awesome

  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Manchester, NHPosts: 2,928Member Uncommon

    It's the perfect target for all ten sandbox MMO fans to take out their rage.

  • RobsolfRobsolf Grand Rapids, MIPosts: 4,247Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by ShakyMo

    Originally posted by Pelaaja


    Originally posted by Cthulhu23

    This does not sit well with the community on mmorpg.com, because many of the players here are MMO hipsters and snobs. 

    If the mmorpg.com community is so appalling to you, why do you want to be part of it (us)? Hypocrisy much...

    I haven't got past the fact that this game would've been awesome if BW had followed the SW:Jedi Academy instead of WoW in gameplay. They could've made it APB+Tera+KOTOR, but because their focus was on money they took too safe road and dribbled to a pebble (pebble being uninnovative bugridden mountain).

    I hope this try dies out fast enough for the next contender to step up and give SW universe a chance.

    Jedi Academy meets kotor for leveling / pve  $70 for two melded games

    starwars themed planetside for pvp    $50

    Xwing vs TieFighter for space pve/pvp  $50

    SWG for RP & crafting   $50

    Awesome$220+ $15 /month to maintain servers.  No wait... for all that... $25/month.

    We accept credit cards.

     

  • GMan3GMan3 Ewa Beach, HIPosts: 2,127Member

    Originally posted by FrodoFragins

    It's the perfect target for all ten sandbox MMO fans to take out their rage.

        Oh come on now, there are more than 10 sandbox fans . . . 15 at least.

    "If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"

  • Cthulhu23Cthulhu23 Tempe, AZPosts: 994Member

    Originally posted by ShakyMo

    Originally posted by Pelaaja


    Originally posted by Cthulhu23

    This does not sit well with the community on mmorpg.com, because many of the players here are MMO hipsters and snobs. 

    If the mmorpg.com community is so appalling to you, why do you want to be part of it (us)? Hypocrisy much...

     

    If this game is so appalling to you, why do you still feel the need to comment on it every chance you get?  Hypocrisy much?  

  • ignore_meignore_me Apple Valley, CAPosts: 1,987Member

    Originally posted by waynejr2

    Originally posted by Robsolf


    Originally posted by LadyNoh

    Most people feel that SWTOR took their childhood dreams and wiped their ass with it. The hate usually comes from something not being up to their standard. people followed and got very excited about this game and when they got in they realized it wasnt that ground breaking at all. Quite the opposate really. My hate for the game is done which is why i havent been attacking it much lately. however if you start going though the posts on the forums you will noticed that attention is being shifted away from SWTOR hate and towards GW2 hate. Those who strongly support GW2 are suddenly on the defencive, same as SWTOR does. This is called the Path of a MMORPG. Haters VS Fanboys + People who enjoy the game but dont hit Fanboy levels. happens every time. nothing to be worried about.

     in the end it comes down to, if you enjoy the game play it. dont stop because a bunch of people on a forum tell you to. Playing by their example will only hurt you later.

    Sounds about right to me, though the game did live up to my expectations.

    There is some extra butt-hurt over the fact that the game does use an extremely popular IP, and so long as its alive, there will be no other serious SW MMO.  So if you don't like this one, there will be no more living in the SW universe for you...

    So I can understand some of the frustration, having watched Star Trek, Champions, and soon Neverwinter Nights be developed into games that are often "meh", at best.  Folks who wanted to "live" in these IP's are doomed to a less than stellar experience, or none at all.

    But, as I've said many times, why many make a career out of bashing it or any other game instead of just accepting that it's not for them and moving on, finding something they WOULD like, continues to elude me.

     

    You can't forget the butt-sore swgers who will never grow up and just move on from their NGE hatred and who are putting on swtor.

    lol NGE hatred projected onto TOR. I'm sure that's it.

    Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011

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