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A few points of concern: The open world and how it isn't so very open afterall.

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Comments

  • BadSpockBadSpock Somewhere, MIPosts: 7,974Member

    And round and round and round it goes....

  • ZekiahZekiah Aurora, COPosts: 2,499Member

    Originally posted by Creslin321

    Zekiah I think your argument has gone so far off the rails that it's somewhere at the bottom of the ocean now.

    Just to summarize...

    You first stated that having load screens damages your immersion.

    We stated that we understand you feel this way, but the load screens are necessary due to technical limitations.

    You then said that games large open world games like Shadowbane and Darkfall didn't have load screens, so why can't GW2?

    We responded that GW2 has to have load screens because of how its world is designed.  In order to get rid of the load screens, they would have to completely change the game.

    To which you basically said that GW2 should have been Shadowbane or Darkfall 2.

     

    I mean...you went from not liking the load screens to saying that GW2 should have been a completely different game.  Doesn't this seem just a little extreme?

    I think you're very confused here lol. 

    I never said the above in red, you're just making that up. And as far as your last comment, that would be called 'having a discussion'. Name one thread here were different views and opinions aren't expressed in a thread?

    Seems to me that perhaps it's your comments that are off track.

    "Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky

  • ZekiahZekiah Aurora, COPosts: 2,499Member

    Originally posted by BadSpock

    And round and round and round it goes....

    You're welcome to leave the discussion anytime Spock instead of giving it a spin yourself lol.

    Hypocrisy is funny stuff. image

    "Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky

  • Creslin321Creslin321 Baltimore, MDPosts: 5,359Member

    Originally posted by Zekiah

    Originally posted by Creslin321

    Zekiah I think your argument has gone so far off the rails that it's somewhere at the bottom of the ocean now.

    Just to summarize...

    You first stated that having load screens damages your immersion.

    We stated that we understand you feel this way, but the load screens are necessary due to technical limitations.

    You then said that games large open world games like Shadowbane and Darkfall didn't have load screens, so why can't GW2?

    We responded that GW2 has to have load screens because of how its world is designed.  In order to get rid of the load screens, they would have to completely change the game.

    To which you basically said that GW2 should have been Shadowbane or Darkfall 2.

     

    I mean...you went from not liking the load screens to saying that GW2 should have been a completely different game.  Doesn't this seem just a little extreme?

    I think you're very confused here lol. 

    I never said the above in red, you're just making that up. And as far as your last comment, that would be called 'having a discussion'. Name one thread here were different views and opinions aren't expressed in a thread?

    Seems to me that perhaps it's your comments that are off track.

     You're saying that GW2 should have had a world like Shadowbane or Darkfall to get rid of the loading screens...

    I don't know if you understand how much the world design affects a game.  If GW2 has a world design like Shadowbane or Darkfall, i.e. large and barren...it would have DRASTICALLY altered the game.  And yes...made GW2 more like Shadowband and Darkfall hence the highlighted comment.

    Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  • ZekiahZekiah Aurora, COPosts: 2,499Member

    Originally posted by BadSpock

    Originally posted by Zekiah

    Ok Spock, it is illogical to believe that ArenaNet could design their game world without zones and instances. It is quite simply impossible for them to design a seamless world with all their dynamic content.

    Feel better lol? image

    Not at all impossible, they could have easily made a game world without zones and instances.

    So could have WoW, TOR, EQ2, EQ1, AoC, WAR, Rift....

    But what would they lose to do it?

    I'll take a quick load screen now and again to not have Darkfall thank you very much.

    Darkfall is the only MMORPG I have ever downloaded, installed, launched, and then uninstalled within an hour of launching the game

    The fact they and others compare Darkfall to my glorious, glorious Ultima Online is insulting lol

    Darkfall has one, if not the best combat systems out there.

    And yes, yes, we all know about your precious lol.

    "Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky

  • ZekiahZekiah Aurora, COPosts: 2,499Member

    Originally posted by Creslin321

    Originally posted by Zekiah


    Originally posted by Creslin321

    Zekiah I think your argument has gone so far off the rails that it's somewhere at the bottom of the ocean now.

    Just to summarize...

    You first stated that having load screens damages your immersion.

    We stated that we understand you feel this way, but the load screens are necessary due to technical limitations.

    You then said that games large open world games like Shadowbane and Darkfall didn't have load screens, so why can't GW2?

    We responded that GW2 has to have load screens because of how its world is designed.  In order to get rid of the load screens, they would have to completely change the game.

    To which you basically said that GW2 should have been Shadowbane or Darkfall 2.

     

    I mean...you went from not liking the load screens to saying that GW2 should have been a completely different game.  Doesn't this seem just a little extreme?

    I think you're very confused here lol. 

    I never said the above in red, you're just making that up. And as far as your last comment, that would be called 'having a discussion'. Name one thread here were different views and opinions aren't expressed in a thread?

    Seems to me that perhaps it's your comments that are off track.

     You're saying that GW2 should have had a world like Shadowbane or Darkfall to get rid of the loading screens...

    I don't know if you understand how much the world design affects a game.  If GW2 has a world design like Shadowbane or Darkfall, i.e. large and barren...it would have DRASTICALLY altered the game.  And yes...made GW2 more like Shadowband and Darkfall hence the highlighted comment.

    That's quite comical in red there. That's what I've been saying this whole time lol, just from a different perspective. But no, I never said it should have been either of those games, did I? Nope. What I said was that GW2 would be better with a similar world design, big difference.

    "Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky

  • BadSpockBadSpock Somewhere, MIPosts: 7,974Member

    Originally posted by Zekiah

    Originally posted by BadSpock

    And round and round and round it goes....

    You're welcome to leave the discussion anytime Spock instead of giving it a spin yourself lol.

    Hypocrisy is funny stuff. image

    I can't leave because that would mean you "win" and, well, I just can't let that happen. image

    You are 100% wrong and that is a fact.

    You cannot simply change the size/scope of the world without changing everything else.

    Because it is not a simple change.

    That is a fact.

     

  • ZekiahZekiah Aurora, COPosts: 2,499Member

    Originally posted by BadSpock

    Originally posted by Zekiah


    Originally posted by BadSpock

    And round and round and round it goes....

    You're welcome to leave the discussion anytime Spock instead of giving it a spin yourself lol.

    Hypocrisy is funny stuff. image

    I can't leave because that would mean you "win" and, well, I just can't let that happen. image

    You are 100% wrong and that is a fact.

    You cannot simply change the size/scope of the world without changing everything else.

    Because it is not a simple change.

    That is a fact.

     

    I never said they wouldn't have had to change some things now did I? image

    *spin...*

    "Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky

  • Creslin321Creslin321 Baltimore, MDPosts: 5,359Member

    Originally posted by BadSpock

    Originally posted by Zekiah

    Originally posted by BadSpock

    And round and round and round it goes....

    You're welcome to leave the discussion anytime Spock instead of giving it a spin yourself lol.

    Hypocrisy is funny stuff. image

    I can't leave because that would mean you "win" and, well, I just can't let that happen. image

    You are 100% wrong and that is a fact.

    You cannot simply change the size/scope of the world without changing everything else.

    Because it is not a simple change.

    That is a fact.

     

     I think it's time for us to just walk away lol.

    Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  • Atlan99Atlan99 Calgary, ABPosts: 1,323Member

    Originally posted by Zekiah

    I agree 100%.  They could have made GW2 a seamless open world. 

    What you have to ask yourself is, would it be worth it?

    Before you answer realize what this would mean.

    They would have to scale down the level of detail in the world. Probably have to reduce the size and scope of it as well. It would also mean reducing the number of dynamic events and scaling down the size of them.

    Please realize that Arenanet made these choices for a reason. They did to make the best game they could possibly make.

    They didn't do it to break your immersion or just to personally spite you. 

    Wow, thanks for the honesty, at least you can admit that it's possible heh. Others find it highly illogical. image

    Would it be worth it? Absolutely, in my opinion of course. Now then again, the world would have to be different in order to support a design like that of course. But hey, if other companies can do it, so can they. Just make it larger, spread people out and yeah, it would be worth it.

    And as for that last comment, I could turn around and say the same thing for my comments. Some people really take things personally here lol.

    They don't find it illogical at all.

    They have just decided that Arenanet made the right choices for the right reasons. I fall in this camp.

    The problem is you avoid the problems of what you want done. Darkfall paid a high price for it's design. They had to turn away customers because their servers couldn't handle the load of people. That's the problem of their design from a financial standpoint. You have to limit the people you allow to play your game. While that may sound fine to you. It is financial suicide for any company.

  • ZekiahZekiah Aurora, COPosts: 2,499Member

    Originally posted by Creslin321

    Originally posted by BadSpock


    Originally posted by Zekiah


    Originally posted by BadSpock

    And round and round and round it goes....

    You're welcome to leave the discussion anytime Spock instead of giving it a spin yourself lol.

    Hypocrisy is funny stuff. image

    I can't leave because that would mean you "win" and, well, I just can't let that happen. image

    You are 100% wrong and that is a fact.

    You cannot simply change the size/scope of the world without changing everything else.

    Because it is not a simple change.

    That is a fact.

     

     I think it's time for us to just walk away lol.

    Lol, well at least now we can all agree that it was possible for them to design a seamless world but chose not to, I'm good with that. image

    "Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky

  • KanethKaneth Posts: 1,930Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Creslin321

    Originally posted by Zekiah


    Originally posted by Creslin321

    Zekiah I think your argument has gone so far off the rails that it's somewhere at the bottom of the ocean now.

    Just to summarize...

    You first stated that having load screens damages your immersion.

    We stated that we understand you feel this way, but the load screens are necessary due to technical limitations.

    You then said that games large open world games like Shadowbane and Darkfall didn't have load screens, so why can't GW2?

    We responded that GW2 has to have load screens because of how its world is designed.  In order to get rid of the load screens, they would have to completely change the game.

    To which you basically said that GW2 should have been Shadowbane or Darkfall 2.

     

    I mean...you went from not liking the load screens to saying that GW2 should have been a completely different game.  Doesn't this seem just a little extreme?

    I think you're very confused here lol. 

    I never said the above in red, you're just making that up. And as far as your last comment, that would be called 'having a discussion'. Name one thread here were different views and opinions aren't expressed in a thread?

    Seems to me that perhaps it's your comments that are off track.

     You're saying that GW2 should have had a world like Shadowbane or Darkfall to get rid of the loading screens...

    I don't know if you understand how much the world design affects a game.  If GW2 has a world design like Shadowbane or Darkfall, i.e. large and barren...it would have DRASTICALLY altered the game.  And yes...made GW2 more like Shadowband and Darkfall hence the highlighted comment.

    Also consider how low detailed Shadowbane really was, at least at launch when I played, (played for about 12 weeks). Anytime I ran into a neutral town or had a battle with more than 40 people total my game slowed way down. Just because a game can be made without loading screens at all, doesn't mean it always should. Especially if the world details have to be diluted.

    More On-Topic:

    Loading screens in games don't bother me too much. It's a part of gaming to a degree, as long as loading screens are used intelligently and minimally. The personal stories are going to be a different animal than the outdoor zones, because they are all instanced, and your personal story home zone is unique to your character. To a degree, that can't really be avoided, unless you implement something like phasing in WoW, but that has its immersion breaking elements as well.

    Additionally, as I can't say how zoned the outdoor world is, each zone could wind up being it's own loaded area. To a degree it can make sense, considering all of the dynamic events that could potentially be running at the same time within the zone. As I don't know how the coding background works in GW2, I can't really say how much dynamic events really impact the overall world vs. static mob spawns (like in WoW).

  • ConnmacartConnmacart OsloPosts: 681Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by BadSpock

    Originally posted by Zekiah


    Originally posted by BadSpock

    And round and round and round it goes....

    You're welcome to leave the discussion anytime Spock instead of giving it a spin yourself lol.

    Hypocrisy is funny stuff. image

    I can't leave because that would mean you "win" and, well, I just can't let that happen. image

    You are 100% wrong and that is a fact.

    You cannot simply change the size/scope of the world without changing everything else.

    Because it is not a simple change.

    That is a fact.

     

    maybe point out there isn't any real discussion going on since all he's saying "you are wrong, you are wrong" all the time. And for the record I don't think Anet could have done away with zones without scrapping the entire engine and starting from nothing again.

  • NeoZcar2NeoZcar2 Roanoke, TXPosts: 136Member

    Originally posted by Zekiah

    Originally posted by BadSpock


    Originally posted by Zekiah

    Ok Spock, it is illogical to believe that ArenaNet could design their game world without zones and instances. It is quite simply impossible for them to design a seamless world with all their dynamic content.

    Feel better lol? image

    Not at all impossible, they could have easily made a game world without zones and instances.

    So could have WoW, TOR, EQ2, EQ1, AoC, WAR, Rift....

    But what would they lose to do it?

    I'll take a quick load screen now and again to not have Darkfall thank you very much.

    Darkfall is the only MMORPG I have ever downloaded, installed, launched, and then uninstalled within an hour of launching the game

    The fact they and others compare Darkfall to my glorious, glorious Ultima Online is insulting lol

    Darkfall has one, if not the best combat systems out there.

    And yes, yes, we all know about your precious lol.

    Obviously Darkfall and by extension Mortal Online do not have even close to the best combat systems out there or they both would not be failed games. People do not like the feel of a FPS combat system in a MMORPG. Personally I think the combat system that AoC came up with is far better then anything Darkfall had to offer and pure subscription numbers would agree. Guildwars 2 will have a system that like AoC is a cross breed between traditional tab targeting combat and action oriented combat like we find in Darkfall. 

    Just because you and other Darkfall players liked that combat system does not make it even arguably the best system because you are less then .1% of all  MMORPG players.  And if I remember correctly critics rated AoC as the best combat system ever. And GW2 is very similar to AoC.

  • ZekiahZekiah Aurora, COPosts: 2,499Member

    Originally posted by Atlan99

    Originally posted by Zekiah


    I agree 100%.  They could have made GW2 a seamless open world. 

    What you have to ask yourself is, would it be worth it?

    Before you answer realize what this would mean.

    They would have to scale down the level of detail in the world. Probably have to reduce the size and scope of it as well. It would also mean reducing the number of dynamic events and scaling down the size of them.

    Please realize that Arenanet made these choices for a reason. They did to make the best game they could possibly make.

    They didn't do it to break your immersion or just to personally spite you. 

    Wow, thanks for the honesty, at least you can admit that it's possible heh. Others find it highly illogical. image

    Would it be worth it? Absolutely, in my opinion of course. Now then again, the world would have to be different in order to support a design like that of course. But hey, if other companies can do it, so can they. Just make it larger, spread people out and yeah, it would be worth it.

    And as for that last comment, I could turn around and say the same thing for my comments. Some people really take things personally here lol.

    They don't find it illogical at all.

    They have just decided that Arenanet made the right choices for the right reasons. I fall in this camp.

    The problem is you avoid the problems of what you want done. Darkfall paid a high price for it's design. They had to turn away customers because their servers couldn't handle the load of people. That's the problem of their design from a financial standpoint. You have to limit the people you allow to play your game. While that may sound fine to you. It is financial suicide for any company.

    Aventurine is a far cry from ArenaNet my friend, in many areas.

    "Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky

  • DannyGloverDannyGlover Portland, ORPosts: 1,277Member

    The game looks pretty open to me. But I did have a question. I was watching some total biscuit vids of him playing GW2 and it seemed that there were a lot of quick little loading screens as they roamed round the world. It would be like an event would cause it or they would walk into an invisible wall, the load screen would come up for about 5 seconds, then they would keep moving. Whats up with that? Is that how the whole game is going to be? Short little load screens every few minutes as you wander around the world?

    I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.

  • BadSpockBadSpock Somewhere, MIPosts: 7,974Member

    Originally posted by Zekiah

    Lol, well at least now we can all agree that it was possible for them to design a seamless world but chose not to, I'm good with that. image

    Yes, you are right about that.

    They did indeed choose to not design a seemless world.

    But only because they would have had to sacrifice too much to acheive it due to the very real limitations of hardware/software/engines.

    All design is choice.

  • st4t1ckst4t1ck jonesboro, GAPosts: 600Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Zekiah

    Originally posted by Creslin321


    Originally posted by BadSpock


    Originally posted by Zekiah


    Originally posted by BadSpock

    And round and round and round it goes....

    You're welcome to leave the discussion anytime Spock instead of giving it a spin yourself lol.

    Hypocrisy is funny stuff. image

    I can't leave because that would mean you "win" and, well, I just can't let that happen. image

    You are 100% wrong and that is a fact.

    You cannot simply change the size/scope of the world without changing everything else.

    Because it is not a simple change.

    That is a fact.

     

     I think it's time for us to just walk away lol.

    Lol, well at least now we can all agree that it was possible for them to design a seamless world but chose not to, I'm good with that. image

    Not possible for the level of detail, graphics, art, and everything else they seen in there vision for the game. 

    Show us how it would be profitable to do so and maybe i could see your point.  can it happen, i suppose it could, wouldnt make a lot of sense though

  • BadSpockBadSpock Somewhere, MIPosts: 7,974Member

    Originally posted by Zekiah

    Aventurine is a far cry from ArenaNet my friend, in many areas.

    You are also certainly EXTREMELY correct in that statement.

  • romanator0romanator0 Glendora, CAPosts: 2,382Member

    Originally posted by DannyGlover

    The game looks pretty open to me. But I did have a question. I was watching some total biscuit vids of him playing GW2 and it seemed that there were a lot of quick little loading screens as they roamed round the world. It would be like an event would cause it or they would walk into an invisible wall, the load screen would come up for about 5 seconds, then they would keep moving. Whats up with that? Is that how the whole game is going to be? Short little load screens every few minutes as you wander around the world?

    Which video is this? Only one i've seen like that was him doing personal story quests.

    image

  • NeoZcar2NeoZcar2 Roanoke, TXPosts: 136Member

    Originally posted by DannyGlover

    The game looks pretty open to me. But I did have a question. I was watching some total biscuit vids of him playing GW2 and it seemed that there were a lot of quick little loading screens as they roamed round the world. It would be like an event would cause it or they would walk into an invisible wall, the load screen would come up for about 5 seconds, then they would keep moving. Whats up with that? Is that how the whole game is going to be? Short little load screens every few minutes as you wander around the world?

    If your referring to teh same video I watched then there is a simple explaination. Most of that was his going from Personal Home isntance, to main city, to outside zone, then going through a series of personal storyline instances. Which everyone has known about for a while now. During your own personal storyline you do go off into instanced areas that others cannot affect while you are there. They are usually small short and quick and then your back out into the normal world.

  • flclimaxflclimax Hempstead, NYPosts: 92Member Common

    question:

    so now that we know that many zone to zone transitions in this game are seamless and the game is not instanced or sharded(GW, SWTOR), what's this discussion about now?

  • NeoZcar2NeoZcar2 Roanoke, TXPosts: 136Member

    Originally posted by flclimax

    question:

    so now that we know that many zone to zone transitions in this game are seamless and the game is not instanced or sharded(GW, SWTOR), what's this discussion about now?

    Its about a Darkfall troll poking the GW2 beehive with a stick before running off screaming for help because he didnt get a favorable response.

  • Creslin321Creslin321 Baltimore, MDPosts: 5,359Member

    Originally posted by NeoZcar2

    Originally posted by DannyGlover

    The game looks pretty open to me. But I did have a question. I was watching some total biscuit vids of him playing GW2 and it seemed that there were a lot of quick little loading screens as they roamed round the world. It would be like an event would cause it or they would walk into an invisible wall, the load screen would come up for about 5 seconds, then they would keep moving. Whats up with that? Is that how the whole game is going to be? Short little load screens every few minutes as you wander around the world?

    If your referring to teh same video I watched then there is a simple explaination. Most of that was his going from Personal Home isntance, to main city, to outside zone, then going through a series of personal storyline instances. Which everyone has known about for a while now. During your own personal storyline you do go off into instanced areas that others cannot affect while you are there. They are usually small short and quick and then your back out into the normal world.

     Yeah...also there are PLENTY of GW2 videos out there with hardly any zoning in them, like all the Yogscast ones.  Just like most games, there will be some zoning in GW2, but I don't think it's going to be that bad.

    If every GW2 video had tons of zoning in it, I would be concerned.  But as it stands, there's only one video out of probably over a hundred that has significant zoning in it...I wouldn't worry.

    Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  • Creslin321Creslin321 Baltimore, MDPosts: 5,359Member

    Originally posted by NeoZcar2

    Originally posted by flclimax

    question:

    so now that we know that many zone to zone transitions in this game are seamless and the game is not instanced or sharded(GW, SWTOR), what's this discussion about now?

    Its about a Darkfall troll poking the GW2 beehive with a stick before running off screaming for help because he didnt get a favorable response.

     I don't think he was poking the GW2 beehive...I think he was poking the "rational thought" beehive.

    Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

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