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MO's community and fail selective moderation?
argirop
Member UncommonPosts: 300
Was reading MO official forums and when i run on Sebastians answer on a matter concerning textures of different matterials, sets and pieces of armor i felt an urge judging him and questioning him based on his post cause honestly felt it was unprofessional, sad and unsufficient. After a chat with a polite fellow some of the usual trolls/ fanboys jumped on me and started bashing Greece (the country i come from) without a paricular reason probably to make me furious, disorientate the conversation or whatever. I felt angry ofc for being forced to confront 20 year old trolls with no manners, rude, lack of education and orientation with only cause to grief people and make them angry but still i managed to hold my breath and sit back to see if they will be permanent banned for racist comments which is usualy the No1 rule in most of the forums of all kinds. Same applies for official MO forum which is rule 1c.
I m realy curious to see if moderators will take an action against hideous behaviour like that or they will simply overlook the fact since i was judging/ questioning somehow Sebastian and they where defending them even though it was in the worst way they could possibly choose to do something like that.
Heres the link for the thread http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/73574-so-thats-what-full-oghmium-looks-like.html
Sebastian's place on the subject was on posts #23, 27, i jumped in at post # 37 and the racist posts started on # 42 by Pakee to be backed up by Stephum on # 46 in a way more rude, insulting and straight forward way.
Comments
read what you just posted. you were harshly judging someone else on their professionalism while insulting them by saying it was "sad and unsufficient", and then claim to be a victim of other people judging you. a victim of "20 year old trolls with no manners, rude, lack of education" while you're talking to sebastian like he's been intentionally fucking over the entire MO community for 2 years. it's like you don't give a shit what happens to him or SV employees as long as you get every bullet point on the feature list.
hypocritical and brimming with prejudice. how do you expect anyone to take you seriously?
btw, that was all constructive. it was meant to help you.
EDIT: there was only one dude who said anything about greece, which was beside the point and not all that insulting.
also, yes. i did follow you here cause i'm bored.
LOL @ "Racist" comments... I didnt know "Greek" was a race. =P
Anyhow, you realy should report MO to the ADL- They will jump on this injustice.
Well, that thread proves those guys have little clue how to handle textures and materials in unreal.. it got one of the most powerful material systems yet seen in any engines, as long as you take it for account from the start. Although Argirop, your post was little uncalled for, Seb did his best to explain it way he sees it, I see no reason for calling it sad or unprofessional.
So, the folks on MO official forums are brainwashed and don't want to admit the devs at SV are totally unprofessionnal...DUH !
The thread was pretty funny because Sebastian basically owned himself and admitted that it was the core design of their programming that was flawed. People finally start opening their eyes and realise that behind the beautiful 3D engine, there is a fundamental lack of artistic design and lack of variety in models and textures.
Finally someone mentioning how poorly textures are being tiled endlessly on the ground on a unique pattern.
And yes, the OP said the truth, Devs at SV are unprofessional and "lazy". lazy, not because they don't work hard, but because they don't work the proper way due to lack of experience, they chose the quick easier solutions which after look bad.
And yes the insults aimed at Greece are unacceptable, yet MO forum moderation allows it, while banning other people for "negativity" aimed at the game.
When facing arguments, the rabid fanboys resort to the "derp" type answers and attacking the guy's own country.
Pathetic.
assuming you're referring to me and that other dude, i'll respond to your silly rheotoric. i made no comments on SV itself, but just the stupid shit what's his face said. his bias is clear due to his choice of words and reiterations.
your definition of lazy doesn't exist. lazy isn't the inability to do something from the lack of experience.
how you can get that we're fanboys at all is a mystery to me. most of the responses weren't even aimed towards the game itself, but with the development team and having sympathy for their situation. the only person whos bias is absolutely clear is yours and those like you.
you live in a fantasy land, and i honestly don't know why i'm even bothering posting here.
+1
Who lives in fantasy land? probably the few people who still actually believe MO is a good game.
His choice of words don't show bias, it just shows he doesn't like SV's work. Keep on watching MO through pink glasses.
So you were one of the people who actually resorted to insulting his nation? Brilliant !
You speak a lot but in the end, all you say is that you and the other fanboys defend SV whatever they do, OP attacked SV and question their skill, you didn't like it, so resorted to personnal attacks, and people who don't like MO are blind, the faithful followers on the official forums are the ones holding the truth...
Please carry on embarassing yourself. Oh and btw, whatever OP had said on the devs, it would never justify personnal attacks on a country, that just shows what kind of a person you are.
You should calm down and try to understand the big picture which from claims like this I know you lack.
It's not about people believing MO is good, it's about people enjoy playing MO.
So there's people who play it and like to talk positive about their game experience (duh), and than there's people who don't play it but like to point fingers, talk shit and judge in general.
I don't think I have to point out which ones should back off and move on.
I know exactly what im posted and i feel and believe every word. I m a customer that bought a product which is not what advertised to be and i m at least entitled to complain and judge those who did deliver the specific product and they follow a certain policy i find it to be ridiculous at least. I also never claimed to be the victim of a situation or anything and at my 31 years old i dont find it a problem to confront rude kids which they totaly lack constructive arguments and using insults or the place i come from to justify their saying or simply cause grief. But this doesnt change the fact that we are talking about an open forum and no one shoulkd be able to use expresions as "no one has interrested in the shithole Greece is. You shouldnt be considered anymore part of Europe nor be a part of any civilized NATION. You should be a pair of Somalia and 3rd world countries..." Those where words written by Stephum. The initial posts and my answers on him removed and he got banned as far as i know. Still i told him that Europe is not a nation but a continent, tried to understant where did his opinion about Greece came from and also how did someone managed to drive a conversation about textures into insulting a nation. Btw as a person and Greek one i do not accept the term 3rd countries nor i take it that Somalia is lower to any other nation. I take those nations as troubled countries for several reasons but at the end i give a value to people and simply cannot evaluate nation and i do have a strong believe that every human being is equal wherever he comes from. At the end mods did their job and banned Stephum for his absurd comments and after all the title of this thread comes with a questionmark and OP comes along with the question that needs to be seing what mods will do.
As it is about Sebastian i will not hide that i have little to nothing respect for him. And that not cause i m judging him as a person nor i know him personaly but i m talking about his job. No i dont think he intentionaly fucks up the community for 2 years but i do think that he fucks the community for 2 years. And thats cause he cant code, he cant fix his mistakes and instead of doing that he comes with new bright ideas every now and then but still he fails to implement them. Concerning textures he admited that system is flawd and needs to be redesigned from scratch. And my point of view is that if that needs to be done then do it instead of asking for sympathy, asking from your customers to hold on with something thats flawd. Priorities is a different story and if we re about to discuss it this wall of text will become huge so i m skiping it.
I m not expecting from anyone anything. I m puting down my thoughts and i expect answers. hypocritical and brimming with prejudice? How did you come up with that? I will be happy to listen. I m concerned mostly about the hypocritical part cause i totaly fail to see what are you talking about. Maybe not a wise chose of words?
Toferio the fact that SV's dev crue has little knowledge, skill, experience and talent its not a surprise to anyone. Same rule applies for textures of different matterials, type sets and armor pieces. From how i m seeing it Sebastian is the source of all the bad things that coming around MO. I do remember him from early days when MO was still a project on the go when he was being funny, optimistic reasuring to the community and from all those early conversations everybody including myself believed that he was the talented programmer who will practically deliver MO in a revolutionary form with awesome features, exciting and fun to play. But that wasnt the case. What more to say. The guy has some ideas but he cannot deliver them. He cant code. He cannot fix what he did wrong which to summarize it was the full code in every section in MO. And what needs to be done to fix those errors? Redesign the code from scratch. And still that doesnt mean that a new code designed by the same people will not be flawed cause i have the strong believe that they might fix some errors of the past that they know now but who can guarantee that they will not make new errors. Whos to blame for that? me or the average gamer?
I hope you can understant my frustration when i see someone to say in every case the same line: we are aware of the issue, its cause bla, bla, bla, bla, bla but in order to fix it we have to redesign the whole bloody thing so we will simply leave it as it is and we will focus on delivering new half assed features that they will probably wont work and in order to fix them we have to redesign the whole system which will never happen. I strongly feel that this guys are laughing not behind our backs thing anyone would accept for a company to do but straight into our faces.
Sorry about the slappy posts but its a busy day so i m doing 10 things at the time i m typing and plus my bad English doesnt help my cause. I hope you get my point though.
WoW OP you really went off on one for no reason at all.. the dev said its somthing they do need to look into but would require them starting from scratch when it comes to character textures.. in other words it would take a lot of work but its somthing they have thought about doing..
I think you just need to chill out.. its a shame people did start going on about your nationality and yeah that was wrong..but calling the dev lazy and unprofessional was also wrong..
I know whats involved with creating games as im currently working with a team on one now and its no easy task, they took on the unreal engine at a very early stage when it still had lots of bugs and basic features. I wouldnt even touch the unreal engine now as its a pain in the arse to work with but there we go...
So someone insults British people in general or UK as a nation. That surely aint racism cause British people aint a race. I m not sure whats your point and what you are trying to do here. I dont take the incident seriously and tbh i dont expect to run on high educated individuals whith philosophical concerns in a forum about a game. But non the less i do expect the users to follow some certain rules not because they re typed in a page as forum rules nor i have a high opinion about some forum rules neither the ones who put them there. But because some unwritten rules are fundamental principles of humanity and for those people or over the world sacrificed their very own lives. So its ridiculous just because one kid that feels warm and cozy behind the anonymity that offers him the internet to break them without a particular reason but just he feels he can do that.
And if you ask me what needs to be done in this occasion its not difficult to figure it out. I m not a fan of extreme measures, jailtime, fines, death penalty. Its way too more simple just to ban them from the forum cause apparently some people are not ment to have social contacts for their own good and for the sake of others sometimes or simply if you do notice any signs of that kind of behaviour as a parent just pull them their ears, givem some time to think about it and then have a nice good, deep and detailed chat explaining them what does makes us humans different of all the other animals on earth.
Is that so?
Forgive my inability to accept people's word over the internet without a grain of salt, but you come off sounding like a player ended beta-tester claiming to be a part of the dev team. If you truly were a part of a development team then you wouldnt would use words like "working with a team" but something along the lines of "am part of a team". Got any proof with which you can back up your...claims? You see I am a fanmodder myself, and find it curious as to why a "developer" would even come down here to the forum of a bug ridden mess and dare to claim he is one and create unwanted controversy, besides Im having some minor difficulties with realigning GOB(s) positions to consecutive root based animations so maybe you could provide me with some "professional" insight as to what can be done? We`ll talk about the animations in PMs but post your proof of claims here so that others might know you better and know for sure that you arent blowing smoke when you claim to be a game developer, thank you.
I digress though, as for this thread....OP you should have known better man. You call a moronic developer (sebastian) a moron on their forums. Random fanboys take up arms to defend their religion, which is MO. They are willing to burn for MO, ban for MO and sure as hell attack one's birthplace for the sake of...MO? That sebastian is a failure of a dev, no offence to him but hes just not cut out for the work. Redesigning textures isnt the same as splitting mountains as some might make you believe. If you have the bone set, you can replot or even remod the wireframe that goes around it and (dont know for sure which format skin goes in to UE3 models) reedit the .dds or TARGA and wrap that around the whole thing after setting RGB alpha channels to get the right amount of light saturation that might mimic real skin/armour/etc. All this in a day's work. Designing layout isnt a back breaking task either, but for this team (Starvault) who cant get off their bum and get some work done with the amount of skill that MO requires, its a nightmare. And they (and their fanboys) will make you believe that designing a game requires the hands of god and beyond the skill of mortal folk and that therefore Starvault are in-turn gods who designed and gave you mortals this game of Mortal Online.
You can after all teach a dog to bang its paws on a piano but you cant teach it to play one of Beethoven's symphonies. Expecting it to do so and then calling it a son of a bitch for not knowing how to, doesnt help anyone. Its pups are gonna bark at you man.
This is the shite that is MO, take it or leave it. But engaging one of its devs in conversation about how he is useless, as true as it is, is just pointless. If you want to talk ill about MO on their forums, do so at your own risk but go with an iron stomach and with your flameproof overcoat donned on.
Look, when you just repeat the same tile of texture on a unique pattern for miles and miles of terrain, I call it lazy, sloppy, you chose the word you like the best.
Nope, insulting someones NATION is not racism nor is it improper IMHO... I am a Yank who is friends with many a Brit (not just "online" friends) and we readily "insult" each others Nations... Right now Greece has completly screwed its economy up through horrible economical practices and too much debt and they are needing Germany and the EU to bail them the hell out- Plenty to say about that... (Note: The USA is very much in a quasi-similar situation but we are not asking the Canadians for a bail out)-
Race and Nationality are two diffrent things my friend... For the most part European and Americans are "Caucasion"- Same as me.
Plus, I am sick as hell of the "PC" police (not PC as in "personal Computer" lol)- Get some thicker skin if you are so sensitive that you cannot stand the "plot of land" you live on to be "talked about".
Oh, and BTW- I do not play MO but I think they (the Devs) have achived alot with the resourses they have- If it was not a PVP deathmatch and was more like UO- I would gladly play. It is not, so the game is not for me- But I wil not insult their Dev team because of it.
-Grow up. EDIT: I am not telling YOU (the peron whos post I am responding to) to grow up- I am meaning the OP.
So someone insults British people in general or UK as a nation. That surely aint racism cause British people aint a race. I m not sure whats your point and what you are trying to do here. I dont take the incident seriously and tbh i dont expect to run on high educated individuals whith philosophical concerns in a forum about a game. But non the less i do expect the users to follow some certain rules not because they re typed in a page as forum rules nor i have a high opinion about some forum rules neither the ones who put them there. But because some unwritten rules are fundamental principles of humanity and for those people or over the world sacrificed their very own lives. So its ridiculous just because one kid that feels warm and cozy behind the anonymity that offers him the internet to break them without a particular reason but just he feels he can do that.
And if you ask me what needs to be done in this occasion its not difficult to figure it out. I m not a fan of extreme measures, jailtime, fines, death penalty. Its way too more simple just to ban them from the forum cause apparently some people are not ment to have social contacts for their own good and for the sake of others sometimes or simply if you do notice any signs of that kind of behaviour as a parent just pull them their ears, givem some time to think about it and then have a nice good, deep and detailed chat explaining them what does makes us humans different of all the other animals on earth.
Nope, insulting someones NATION is not racism nor is it improper IMHO... I am a Yank who is friends with many a Brit (not just "online" friends) and we readily "insult" each others Nations... Right now Greece has completly screwed its economy up through horrible economical practices and too much debt and they are needing Germany and the EU to bail them the hell out- Plenty to say about that... (Note: The USA is very much in a quasi-similar situation but we are not asking the Canadians for a bail out)-
Race and Nationality are two diffrent things my friend... For the most part European and Americans are "Caucasion"- Same as me.
Plus, I am sick as hell of the "PC" police (not PC as in "personal Computer" lol)- Get some thicker skin if you are so sensitive that you cannot stand the "plot of land" you live on to be "talked about".
Oh, and BTW- I do not play MO but I think they (the Devs) have achived alot with the resourses they have- If it was not a PVP deathmatch and was more like UO- I would gladly play. It is not, so the game is not for me- But I wil not insult their Dev team because of it.
-Grow up. EDIT: I am not telling YOU (the peron whos post I am responding to) to grow up- I am meaning the OP.
If you insult us Brits we will probably laugh and then insult ourselves far worse than the other person.LOL-
I was having a conversation with my cousins wife (From London) about American Chocolate- I was devastated to find out our chocolate is Laughed at World Wide and everyone thinks it smells like Vomit (seriouslty)- I mean, why Hate on Hershey????
See, this is how wars begin. =P
NOTE: Unfortunatly, since being told this- I have smelled our chocolate- And they are correct... It still pisses me off lol.
Man, I love the MO forum here. It really doesn't get much better than this.
I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil
When posting on the MO forums instead of the MMORPG forums you have to accept that there may well be posters who attack you with slight abuse and or troll you, it isnt the MMORPG forums were you can hit the big report button every other psot in some vague attempt to get it deleted because they said "you suck" or something else along those lines.
there are 2 types of mmo, imitators and innovaters.
I was thinking of playing MO again, when i stumbled onto this forum post. I then read the MO forum thread that was linked. I could care less about the he said she said crap. What concerns me is that MO is STILL, the buggey POS that i stopped playing after launch. So...TY for settling this for me once and for all
"Look at me when I'm hitting you!"
Agree for the most part. I am one of the people who got banned on the forums for 'negativity', so I know what that is like. Even though the 'negative' post was actually a positive suggestion to fix and improve the horribly broken game.
I don't think insulting someone for having a failed country is appropriate for a game forum, but the offended individual seems to lack the context of discontent.
My country's central banking system has vastly expanded its own money supply to accomodate bailouts for failed EU nations like Greece. This expansion of money supply means much greater inflation rates here at home which translates to everyone having to pay more for goods and services. The 0% interest rates provided for central banks punishes people who save by eliminating returns that they would see in a better economy - people can't retire, and people who did retire are suffering. This is the last thing we need in a recessed and depressed economy, so a LOT of people are pissed off at Greece and other EU nations. An individual should not be accountable for the failings of his governments financial system... but at least understand where the anger comes from... it has nothing whatsoever to do with racism, and everything to do with widescale governmental failure impacting the economies of eveyone due to the fuckups of a few.
Love for the Greek people.... but FUCK the Greek government.
That is an odd statement to make after publically disclosing that you are a working with a development team. If you cannot give out any proof of claims then you shouldnt have claimed something you couldnt prove in the first place. Also you should have thrown out a disclaimer in your original post stating that this is all Your personal opinion, I find nothing wrong with people having their own opinions (correct of wrong is another matter) but agreeing with this sebastian failure-of-a-dev like it was the holy truth that game development is hard and whatever blablabla he says...this I have a problem with. Making a game isnt "Hard" (IMO), time consuming: Yes, requires talent: Yes, Not 'Easy': Yes but definitely not "Hard" as the word might signify.
What you did was basically, walk into a medical hearing about Lead Witchdoctor Kisthakuk on giving out wrong diagnosis to patients while having no prior medical experience and say, "Oh yes, I agree with my esteemed colleague, Witchdoctor Kisthakuk, and his diagnosis that the big red spot that this dude got on this forehead, here look right here, is infact not a pimple but a third nipple. Being a doctor is hard, aye."
But I have gone offtopic now so I will cease to derail this thread by my actions. Anyhow, good luck to you and your team in this venture and I hope to see a game from your end that would interest me enough to buy it and play it. I dont support crooks and fools(SV) but I support indie teams trying to realise their dreams of creating a game.
I have to question your experince with engines as what I can tell the material editor in UDK is one of most powerful available. I am not saying you are wrong, but that you may lack some perspective and other engines to compare UDK with. And before people jump the chance to point out that SV are working in UE3 and not UDK, it's essentially same thing.
Then again, beats me what else SV done with it in order to stumble upon the texture issue. Maybe there is something that screws with it, I give them benifit of the doubt I guess.
I will agree with your conclution cause cant simply think in any other way and will ask you 2 simple questions after a small proloque. Greece's debt at the end of 1974 was approximately 100.000.000 drachmas (drachmas was the official coin in Greece back then). That amount is nearly 300.000 euro if my math is correct and i think you will agree with me that we re talking about a very low debt, close to nothing for a country. Now and because i dont have much time today just wanna ask you the 2 questions:
1)Do you know whats the total debt that Greece owes to counties of the european union as we speak?
2) Do you know whats the amount of money that Greek people paid back from the late 70's untill now in order repay the loans that Greece took since late 70's untill today.
Feel free to do your research in the NET and tomorrow i will steal some time to come back to you and hopefuly make you reconsider your way of thinking since its based in probably intended misinformation.