Any open world or semi open world PvP game allows bullies and other mentally unstable persons the ability to grief others. Mitten crossed the line when he gave the guys game name out in a public forum (as to griefing) and it cost him. I avoid open world PvP games like the plague. I would suggest that if you are going to play these games that you go into them with full knowledge that it attracts people that could make your gaming experience really miserable. Most of the people in these games are good people, but it only takes a few bad ones to give the game(s) bad publicity. Next time Mittens don't go into these panel discussions like a drunken fool.
I can tell you now, it is ONLY a matter of time before some vunerable kid kills himself after being totally destroyed, humiliated and ruined in a game like EVE. Any game where years of work can be destroyed in seconds is pushing enjoyment just a bit to far and the devs need to realise this before they have to spend the rest of their lives living with the knowledge that they were party to someones death.
The Mittani is a self-publicist that seeks to gain notoriety and infamy by making the most inflammatory actions and pronouncements in the belief that he will thereby achieve the ultimate goal of becoming a gaming celebrity. His continued participation in the media storm is part of the deliberate cultivation of that "bad-boy" celebrity status and he revels in it.
This is not the end of "Mittens", far from it. He has been elevated to near god-hood by the publicity and will continue to milk every drop of it for years to come.
One thing I found out is, the culprit is a lawyer. No new paternal government laws need passing before he risks facing serious real life consequences.
I don't care for the Goons, I don't want them anywhere near any MMO I play. But I feel a little sorry for the guy. He might find out that one drunken comment really can mess up your whole life.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
Reading this article was like reading someone trolling. I have to think the author might need to step out of his fictional worlds for some real world time, just as The Mittani should.
You have to draw a line somewhere, and what was said and done is not acceptable. Period, end of story. This was so unacceptable that the fact that this happened at all is a clear indication of deep disfunction in this person.
In my opinion it didn't go as far as it should have. Hell, it should have been a 60 minutes feature. The guy should have been permanently banned from the game, and criminal charges filed.
Anyone who thinks this isn't a big deal or too much has been made of it really needs to take a step back themselves and reconsider.
In the wake of all this, this Mittani is trying to use his "legendary" status to threaten mmo news organizations now. I don't believe his appology was genuine, and I think his status within this game world isn't the only thing now pointing to his disfunction.
...and by the way. I know many people following this story who do not play Eve (like myself) and don't give a rat's ass who the Goons are. I don't care what game you play...this has garnered interest across the community. Acusations that this is some effort of Eve players is idiotic.
You say "a line has to draw a line somewhere", by whom? Indviduals for themselves? I'd quite agree. But all too many people seek to get government involved in these issues. They go on some Crusade or another to "right" the worlds "wrongs", using a system ruled for the most part, in most places, by self seeking sociopaths. Anyone not familiar with that reality, is either naive, or hasn't been paying attention.
Mittens went well over the top (as far as I'm concerned) with his drunken diatribe, but removal from the CSM should be the extent of any action taken by CCP. Much more than that is simply appeasing certain hysterics.
Later on you speak of this being on "60 minutes", and Mittens having "criminal charges filed". Why limit this to America? Perhaps this needs to be broadcast through out the world? Perhaps Mittens needs to be hauled before the International Court at the Hague?
Or perhaps, some people need to take a step back, take a deep breath, and realize that just because something is offensive, doesn't require the type of hysterical responses we've been seeing way too much of for the last few years?
How about this.... if we can't manage to draw the line ourselves you do realize there are many groups out there looking for crap like this to happen so they can step in and draw the line for us. If they draw the line then none of us are going to be happy.
And yes Mittens went over the top and then tried to blame it on Alcohol when it backlashed on him.
Groups only "step in" when they are allowed to... Thats one of the reasons that the US Founders insisted on having a well armed population. We've come a LONG way from that ideal, but the principle remains valid non the less.
I personally believe in self government. Each and every person is responsible for their own actions/inactions and the consequences that result. Thats why Mittens is *still* responsble, even those he was totally smashed drunk. But it should be looked at as only a mitigating circumstance(at best). Alcohol does weird things to some peoples psychologies, and its up to them to know this, and not drink to excess.
Wheres the report button for this OP.......the guys an a-hole is it any big surprise he got slapped down a peg? Get over it, Matti had it coming for a long time and I'm frankly sad it wasnt worse.
I dont hate him but I dont have to like him just the same.
P.S. the BS in this post should = FIRED......baitness you should get that brown stuff off your nose mate its not very becoming
I can tell you now, it is ONLY a matter of time before some vunerable kid kills himself after being totally destroyed, humiliated and ruined in a game like EVE. Any game where years of work can be destroyed in seconds is pushing enjoyment just a bit to far and the devs need to realise this before they have to spend the rest of their lives living with the knowledge that they were party to someones death.
In a word, NO. The Dev's are NOT responsible for the actions of the players. No one is *forcing* anyone to play the game. No one is *forcing* anyone to do anything. Everyone involved IS responsible for their own actions. It would be tragic if someone killed themselves over a game. But that simply means that the person involved had some SERIOUS software "issues" in the first place. If it wasn't an online game that triggered them, t would have been something else.
As much of a CareBear as I tend to be, I'm the first to point out that EVE and all such are GAMES. They are only entertainment. Once they stop being that, that is when the problems start. Gankers/griefers like the Goons, are simply demonstrating an element of human psychology, They get their jollies by ruining others play experience. That being the case, I normally refuse to play games that allow or encourage that. But lets place the blame where it needs to be. With each and every persons actions, and the consequences that result.
I can tell you now, it is ONLY a matter of time before some vunerable kid kills himself after being totally destroyed, humiliated and ruined in a game like EVE. Any game where years of work can be destroyed in seconds is pushing enjoyment just a bit to far and the devs need to realise this before they have to spend the rest of their lives living with the knowledge that they were party to someones death.
In a word, NO. The Dev's are NOT responsible for the actions of the players. No one is *forcing* anyone to play the game. No one is *forcing* anyone to do anything. Everyone involved IS responsible for their own actions. It would be tragic if someone killed themselves over a game. But that simply means that the person involved had some SERIOUS software "issues" in the first place. If it wasn't an online game that triggered them, t would have been something else.
As much of a CareBear as I tend to be, I'm the first to point out that EVE and all such are GAMES. They are only entertainment. Once they stop being that, that is when the problems start. Gankers/griefers like the Goons, are simply demonstrating an element of human psychology, They get their jollies by ruining others play experience. That being the case, I normally refuse to play games that allow or encourage that. But lets place the blame where it needs to be. With each and every persons actions, and the consequences that result.
I agree, whilst I condemn Alex Gianturco's actions, in game as the Mittani he is playing by the rules, even if he and the goons kills everyone in game repeatedly. If someone can't cope with the loss of their virtual items then they shouldn't play Eve. These are all games, like when Alex Gianturco blurred the line between RL and the game, the same is true of those who blame RL ills on a game. It is a game, even a carebear PvE cooperative MMO involves going out and committing wholesale virtual slaughter of the weak pixellated animals and NPCs, you can hardly say that is good if you blur the line between games and reality. Eve was not the problem here the problem is blurring the game and RL
Reading this article was like reading someone trolling. I have to think the author might need to step out of his fictional worlds for some real world time, just as The Mittani should.
You have to draw a line somewhere, and what was said and done is not acceptable. Period, end of story. This was so unacceptable that the fact that this happened at all is a clear indication of deep disfunction in this person.
In my opinion it didn't go as far as it should have. Hell, it should have been a 60 minutes feature. The guy should have been permanently banned from the game, and criminal charges filed.
Anyone who thinks this isn't a big deal or too much has been made of it really needs to take a step back themselves and reconsider.
In the wake of all this, this Mittani is trying to use his "legendary" status to threaten mmo news organizations now. I don't believe his appology was genuine, and I think his status within this game world isn't the only thing now pointing to his disfunction.
...and by the way. I know many people following this story who do not play Eve (like myself) and don't give a rat's ass who the Goons are. I don't care what game you play...this has garnered interest across the community. Acusations that this is some effort of Eve players is idiotic.
You say "a line has to draw a line somewhere", by whom? Indviduals for themselves? I'd quite agree. But all too many people seek to get government involved in these issues. They go on some Crusade or another to "right" the worlds "wrongs", using a system ruled for the most part, in most places, by self seeking sociopaths. Anyone not familiar with that reality, is either naive, or hasn't been paying attention.
Mittens went well over the top (as far as I'm concerned) with his drunken diatribe, but removal from the CSM should be the extent of any action taken by CCP. Much more than that is simply appeasing certain hysterics.
Later on you speak of this being on "60 minutes", and Mittens having "criminal charges filed". Why limit this to America? Perhaps this needs to be broadcast through out the world? Perhaps Mittens needs to be hauled before the International Court at the Hague?
Or perhaps, some people need to take a step back, take a deep breath, and realize that just because something is offensive, doesn't require the type of hysterical responses we've been seeing way too much of for the last few years?
How about this.... if we can't manage to draw the line ourselves you do realize there are many groups out there looking for crap like this to happen so they can step in and draw the line for us. If they draw the line then none of us are going to be happy.
And yes Mittens went over the top and then tried to blame it on Alcohol when it backlashed on him.
Groups only "step in" when they are allowed to... Thats one of the reasons that the US Founders insisted on having a well armed population. We've come a LONG way from that ideal, but the principle remains valid non the less.
I personally believe in self government. Each and every person is responsible for their own actions/inactions and the consequences that result. Thats why Mittens is *still* responsble, even those he was totally smashed drunk. But it should be looked at as only a mitigating circumstance(at best). Alcohol does weird things to some peoples psychologies, and its up to them to know this, and not drink to excess.
Yes but by this standard he is not resposible for any action the "victim" takes as a result, "Each and every person is responsible for their own actions/inactions " .
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
It is a matter of judgement and, in mine and the majority of other players, this was a step too far. Examples like this help us develop a gaming line in the sand, and he definitely crossed it.
It is important to differentiate between a game and real life. If the player is genuinely suicidal then that piece of real-life DEFINITELY takes precedence over someones right to role-play. Anyone who cannot see that is not part of the semi-civilized human race that I belong too.
We have minimum standards and an evolving moral ethos - this was way past the line for the vast majority. So is rape, so is murder (though vastly more serious, equally real), and therefore he should be punished by the majority for his abhorrent baheviour that does not meet the social minimum standard of society.
The comments from all the people saying "its just a game" are revealing. This is the standard default comment from people who lack empathy.
Although its "just a game" people invest real life time into them. Depending on how well made and realistic looking the game is, they also invest real-world value in them simply because that is how some humans are made. It is not as if they have crossed over into thinking fake is real. They simply have bought into the game own's premise of taking on, to some degree, an alternative virtual identity.
Those who shrug and say "its just a game" are just using euphemisms. What they mean to say is "we don't care whether someone else is hurting." That sort of mentality is not unknown in the real world, of course - we have Internet scandals where people urge depressed people on webcams to kill themselves. But anonymity brings out the very worst in people.
Commenters should just be honest and not use the "its just a game" dodge. Admit that, since this is someone whom you lack a meaningful connection to and therefore you do not care what happens to them or how they feel.
You may even have this philosophy in real life. You won't lift a finger to care about or help a stranger.
Just pray you aren't that someone somday lying in the road, helpless after an accident, dependent on the empathy of strangers.
1. The first person to call names has run out of fact to back his claim and it is a show of low intelligence.
2. Your argument is based on what Alex did in the game but what he did was in real life.
3. My fictional persona (Talonsin) was just judged by you to be an idiot. Why is it ok for you to judge people based on what they do online and then criticize others for doing it?
4. It is very obvious you are a GOON and are emotionally involved in this issue.
Thanks, and have a nice day.
1 this isn't a discussion of facts this is a discussion of oppinion, the facts are not in contention what is in contention is the interpretation of the accepted facts. Also to be clear I didn't say you were an idiot I said you are an idiot if you believe that one incident shows the character of a person particularly one incident when they are drunk. I suspect that if the villian were someone you were sympathetic to that you'd be singing a different tune.
2. My argument is about interpretation of the events. I disagree with the assertion that Mittens really believed that the guy was suicidal. As I have repeatedly said this is the question of intent and the difference between an evil thing and a stupid thing. I haven't really seen anyone arguing that what the call out was acceptable behavior and I'm certainly not saying that it is. I'm just saying that this incident doesn't mean that Mittens is a sociopath.
3. I haven't decided if I'm a Goon or not, yet. Yes I'm allied with them in game and yes I'm a paid member of SA. I joined SA originally because I was curious what kind of people I was allied with and once I lurked around a bit I decided I wanted to be involved in some of the non-EVE discussions.
That The MIttani made a mistake and crossed over a line of acceptable behavior isn't a subject of debate. The argument is over just how bad it is and whether or not the consequences fit the "crime".
We have people such as yourself who claim that a single incident under a very specific circumstance where the line between reality and fantasy are intentionally blurred by the participants is somehow sufficient evidence to judge a person's character.
And that is a stupid assertion. Human beings are complicated creatures, we're fundamentally irrational and our behavior influenced by far too many factors to draw such conclusions from limited data sets.
A single incident of stupidity is not sufficient evidence to judge a person's character.
The thing is that EVE is a very particular kind of game that is attractive to a particular kind of player (people who love spreadsheets) the nature of PVP in the game is such that it quite litterally is not for the faint of heart. You have to accept and embrace the fact that the nature of the game universe means the morals and standards of behavior that we take for granted in our real lives no longer apply.
In essence EVE is a game where if one wants to trully be succesful you have to roleplay a hard-ass. You can't show weakness you don't whine, you don't beg, you take your licks and toss a GF(good fight) in local even when it was total gank.
That is the nature of the game and the way the bulk of the playerbase likes it. We like our brutal hard universe were we get to run around roleplaying egomaniacal immortals who are constantly trying to crush each other.
But that's in game you go to the forums however and ask a question without whinning and you'll find one of the most helpful communities in all of gaming.
Just like if you are an enemy of the Goons they are the biggest bunch of scamming griefing bastards in the game, but if you are their ally you couldn't ask for a better friend.
The thing about this incident is that the behavior in question is completely inconsistent with what I know of Alex's character, the bleeding heart leftist lawyer who I really believe was sincerely horrified by his behavior on the pannel.
Now maybe you are some sort of saint who's never done anything that was unkind but I've lived a long enough and hard enough life that I know plenty of incidents that I look back on with regret. As such I can see how Alex could have gotten himself into this mess and how it feels to find out that you've screwed up.
Given the nature of the alliance pannel and the expectations of the audience and the one ups-manship of participants of the pannel and the lowered inhibitions that come from the consumption of copious amounts of alchohol (and Jager is a mean drunk to begin with) it is perfectly understandable how one (particularly if they aren't accustomed to being in a drunken state) could make a joke that goes a little to far gets a tad to mean and too serious for the occasion.
But we have people such as yourself and all the other "The Mittani is an evil cyber-bully" crowd who've all apparently lead such cloistered lives that you've never said or done an unkind thing, that you must be teetotlers who have never experienced the drunken haze of over consumption of booze, who've never work up wondering "what the hell did I do last night and why are my pockets insideout?"
Now the truth is I don't believe anyone is that pure as such I think most of you are liars feigning outrage in order to excuse attacking someone you don't like based on the actions of his character in a video game. Which is frankly pathetic.
What I don't understand here is why we keep talking about The Mittani and EVE. If you were to look at this in the 1st person. Imagine yourself at a public speaking event where you were invited to discuss your favorite MMO because you became well known in the game. You get up in front of the audience and make a complete fool of yourself. Now everyone is talking about your ingame character in the game. That had nothing to do with the situation.
This is not about The Mittani and EVE. This is about Alex Gianturco's actions at a corporate sonsored public event. I really could care less about what The Mittani does in EVE. This incident did not happen in EVE. It happened IRL.
GeezerGamer because haters gonna hate. So many idi*ts hate goonswarms, specialy exbob members and their pets, and so many players mix the game with the reality.
A Hatter is someone who makes hats, don't understand why they would hate anything to do with a video game.
It makes no difference what you post, the Mittani completely destroyed any respect he every had and will never be anyone that matters in Eve ever again. Does not matter how many other characters he plays the game with, his ability to lead has been effectively destroyed.
Weather is was in a game or IRL dosn't make a differnce. Cyberbullying on the internet or bulling in real life is for kids who are social retards and are the true losers of our society anyways, because they can't hack it in the real world. The fact that this guy is in his late 20's just shows how much of a social retard he really is. People like him go around online being rude to people and hurassing them all the time. I'm happy he's going to jail. I'm sure bubba will like it when he drops to soap on the floor.
So many idi*ts hate goonswarms and so many players mix the game with the reality.
Yes, but I think it goes a lot further.
Take a look at this thread, the overwhelming majority of posters have referred to him this incident as The Mittani...IN THIS THREAD. Even we as 3rd party observers who weren't even involved cant separate this guy from his personna. Now wonder he's in the midst of an identity crisis.
Look at his pattern. An incident happens in game. He can't draw the line, he brings it public in real life. His consequences happen in real life. Alex Gianturco may have gotten banned from EVE, but The Mittani still exists, the character is still active in the databases, It just cannot be accessed by Mr. Gianturco for 30 days. The consequenses are on the real life side of the game, not in it. Once his account goes active again, it will be as he left it. But now, how does Mr. Gianturco decide to re establish himself from his IRL actions? The Mittani is going to mete out justice for the wrong doings visited upon Gianturco.
This guy needs to get out of this game and into something real. Before that reality crosses paths with the law as he came dangerously close once already.
It is a matter of judgement and, in mine and the majority of other players, this was a step too far. Examples like this help us develop a gaming line in the sand, and he definitely crossed it.
It is important to differentiate between a game and real life. If the player is genuinely suicidal then that piece of real-life DEFINITELY takes precedence over someones right to role-play. Anyone who cannot see that is not part of the semi-civilized human race that I belong too.
We have minimum standards and an evolving moral ethos - this was way past the line for the vast majority. So is rape, so is murder (though vastly more serious, equally real), and therefore he should be punished by the majority for his abhorrent baheviour that does not meet the social minimum standard of society.
Yes, he was WAY over the line for me, but he is not forcing ANYONE to do ANYTHING. That is the point that all too many people continue to either over look, or miss entirely. Anyone who acts upon his drunken nonsense, is doing so of their own free will. The same applies to everyone else.
Mixing this type of outragous (and irresponsible) SPEECH, with SERIOUS PHYSICAL crimes like murder and rape does a dis service to how SERIOUS the real ACTIONS involved are. As for the standards of "society" do you really want to open up that can of worms? At its most fundamental, its an appeal to numbers or might makes "right", and human history is filled with examples of the horrors that have resulted.
Anyone who is so unstable as to take *actions* against themselves because of a GAME, would have been triggered by something else eventually, in any event.
LOL, I know what goes on here, Normally, I see no reaosn to argue over moot gaming issues, But my family has been affected by Cyber Bullying. It wrong and there are no excuses. The fact seems that people can hide behind artifical personna and commit wrong doings while escaping accountability, needs to be addressed.
Your family have been affected by cyberbullying.To what degree? They have empathy for someone they know that actually got cyberbullied? Or have someone in your family been bullied?
Bullying is wrong, no matter where it is done. But using strong words in curcuimstances where they don't fit just makes the word either useless or plain offensive to people that actually been bullied.
Now I am asking you compare someone actually getting bullied to this situation.
Your family have been affected by cyberbullying.To what degree? They have empathy for someone they know that actually got cyberbullied? Or have someone in your family been bullied?
Bullying is wrong, no matter where it is done. But using strong words in curcuimstances where they don't fit just makes the word either useless or plain offensive to people that actually been bullied.
Now I am asking you compare someone actually getting bullied to this situation.
There are quite a few differences.
I don't think this needs to go any deeper. If that's not enough to satisfy you to justify my earleir statement, then I don't know what else to say.
Well, I am glad an article like this was posted. I hope we see more of them.
Far too many people think that, just because something is done online, it is completely outside the norms of morality. Absolutely anything goes, including harming others emotionally and perhaps through that emotional harm even physically.
It is also the essence of cowardice to hide behind a computer screen to commit atrocious deeds you would never dare IRL. That is why a huge uproar was raised when Blizzard threatened to force people to use their real names on the forums. The cowards and haters, stripped of their comforting little blankets to hide behind, realized that playtime was over. Too bad Blizzard caved.
I suspect that is why SWTOR decided not to have server forums. They always get dominated by the bottom feeders of the Internet who use them to abuse others and feed their own twisted self-image.
There are two types of wanna-be suiciders. First, you have the "I'm gonna kill myself!" types because they want attention (I was one of these when I was 15. (Was never ever going to really kill myself)). Second, you have the folks that kill themselfs (these people rarely states that they are going to).
Comments
Any open world or semi open world PvP game allows bullies and other mentally unstable persons the ability to grief others. Mitten crossed the line when he gave the guys game name out in a public forum (as to griefing) and it cost him. I avoid open world PvP games like the plague. I would suggest that if you are going to play these games that you go into them with full knowledge that it attracts people that could make your gaming experience really miserable. Most of the people in these games are good people, but it only takes a few bad ones to give the game(s) bad publicity. Next time Mittens don't go into these panel discussions like a drunken fool.
I can tell you now, it is ONLY a matter of time before some vunerable kid kills himself after being totally destroyed, humiliated and ruined in a game like EVE. Any game where years of work can be destroyed in seconds is pushing enjoyment just a bit to far and the devs need to realise this before they have to spend the rest of their lives living with the knowledge that they were party to someones death.
Excellent, carefully thought out and reasoned analysis of these events.
There are lessons here for all of us to take away and be mindful of.
Actions have consequences, in game life and real life.
You have to be unwell to intentionally, while playing a video game, try to drive another person to harm themselves.
The flip side, if you are too unwell to be able to work (etc), there is nothing wrong with playing a video game.
Of course, there is another view to these events.
The Mittani is a self-publicist that seeks to gain notoriety and infamy by making the most inflammatory actions and pronouncements in the belief that he will thereby achieve the ultimate goal of becoming a gaming celebrity. His continued participation in the media storm is part of the deliberate cultivation of that "bad-boy" celebrity status and he revels in it.
This is not the end of "Mittens", far from it. He has been elevated to near god-hood by the publicity and will continue to milk every drop of it for years to come.
A magnificent achievement, all things considered.
I don't care for the Goons, I don't want them anywhere near any MMO I play. But I feel a little sorry for the guy. He might find out that one drunken comment really can mess up your whole life.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
~Albert Einstein
Groups only "step in" when they are allowed to... Thats one of the reasons that the US Founders insisted on having a well armed population. We've come a LONG way from that ideal, but the principle remains valid non the less.
I personally believe in self government. Each and every person is responsible for their own actions/inactions and the consequences that result. Thats why Mittens is *still* responsble, even those he was totally smashed drunk. But it should be looked at as only a mitigating circumstance(at best). Alcohol does weird things to some peoples psychologies, and its up to them to know this, and not drink to excess.
Wheres the report button for this OP.......the guys an a-hole is it any big surprise he got slapped down a peg? Get over it, Matti had it coming for a long time and I'm frankly sad it wasnt worse.
I dont hate him but I dont have to like him just the same.
P.S. the BS in this post should = FIRED......baitness you should get that brown stuff off your nose mate its not very becoming
In a word, NO. The Dev's are NOT responsible for the actions of the players. No one is *forcing* anyone to play the game. No one is *forcing* anyone to do anything. Everyone involved IS responsible for their own actions. It would be tragic if someone killed themselves over a game. But that simply means that the person involved had some SERIOUS software "issues" in the first place. If it wasn't an online game that triggered them, t would have been something else.
As much of a CareBear as I tend to be, I'm the first to point out that EVE and all such are GAMES. They are only entertainment. Once they stop being that, that is when the problems start. Gankers/griefers like the Goons, are simply demonstrating an element of human psychology, They get their jollies by ruining others play experience. That being the case, I normally refuse to play games that allow or encourage that. But lets place the blame where it needs to be. With each and every persons actions, and the consequences that result.
In a word, NO. The Dev's are NOT responsible for the actions of the players. No one is *forcing* anyone to play the game. No one is *forcing* anyone to do anything. Everyone involved IS responsible for their own actions. It would be tragic if someone killed themselves over a game. But that simply means that the person involved had some SERIOUS software "issues" in the first place. If it wasn't an online game that triggered them, t would have been something else.
As much of a CareBear as I tend to be, I'm the first to point out that EVE and all such are GAMES. They are only entertainment. Once they stop being that, that is when the problems start. Gankers/griefers like the Goons, are simply demonstrating an element of human psychology, They get their jollies by ruining others play experience. That being the case, I normally refuse to play games that allow or encourage that. But lets place the blame where it needs to be. With each and every persons actions, and the consequences that result.
I agree, whilst I condemn Alex Gianturco's actions, in game as the Mittani he is playing by the rules, even if he and the goons kills everyone in game repeatedly. If someone can't cope with the loss of their virtual items then they shouldn't play Eve. These are all games, like when Alex Gianturco blurred the line between RL and the game, the same is true of those who blame RL ills on a game. It is a game, even a carebear PvE cooperative MMO involves going out and committing wholesale virtual slaughter of the weak pixellated animals and NPCs, you can hardly say that is good if you blur the line between games and reality. Eve was not the problem here the problem is blurring the game and RLYes but by this standard he is not resposible for any action the "victim" takes as a result, "Each and every person is responsible for their own actions/inactions " .
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
It is a matter of judgement and, in mine and the majority of other players, this was a step too far. Examples like this help us develop a gaming line in the sand, and he definitely crossed it.
It is important to differentiate between a game and real life. If the player is genuinely suicidal then that piece of real-life DEFINITELY takes precedence over someones right to role-play. Anyone who cannot see that is not part of the semi-civilized human race that I belong too.
We have minimum standards and an evolving moral ethos - this was way past the line for the vast majority. So is rape, so is murder (though vastly more serious, equally real), and therefore he should be punished by the majority for his abhorrent baheviour that does not meet the social minimum standard of society.
Still playing with the game with other character. So, this topic so useless.
The comments from all the people saying "its just a game" are revealing. This is the standard default comment from people who lack empathy.
Although its "just a game" people invest real life time into them. Depending on how well made and realistic looking the game is, they also invest real-world value in them simply because that is how some humans are made. It is not as if they have crossed over into thinking fake is real. They simply have bought into the game own's premise of taking on, to some degree, an alternative virtual identity.
Those who shrug and say "its just a game" are just using euphemisms. What they mean to say is "we don't care whether someone else is hurting." That sort of mentality is not unknown in the real world, of course - we have Internet scandals where people urge depressed people on webcams to kill themselves. But anonymity brings out the very worst in people.
Commenters should just be honest and not use the "its just a game" dodge. Admit that, since this is someone whom you lack a meaningful connection to and therefore you do not care what happens to them or how they feel.
You may even have this philosophy in real life. You won't lift a finger to care about or help a stranger.
Just pray you aren't that someone somday lying in the road, helpless after an accident, dependent on the empathy of strangers.
1 this isn't a discussion of facts this is a discussion of oppinion, the facts are not in contention what is in contention is the interpretation of the accepted facts. Also to be clear I didn't say you were an idiot I said you are an idiot if you believe that one incident shows the character of a person particularly one incident when they are drunk. I suspect that if the villian were someone you were sympathetic to that you'd be singing a different tune.
2. My argument is about interpretation of the events. I disagree with the assertion that Mittens really believed that the guy was suicidal. As I have repeatedly said this is the question of intent and the difference between an evil thing and a stupid thing. I haven't really seen anyone arguing that what the call out was acceptable behavior and I'm certainly not saying that it is. I'm just saying that this incident doesn't mean that Mittens is a sociopath.
3. I haven't decided if I'm a Goon or not, yet. Yes I'm allied with them in game and yes I'm a paid member of SA. I joined SA originally because I was curious what kind of people I was allied with and once I lurked around a bit I decided I wanted to be involved in some of the non-EVE discussions.
That The MIttani made a mistake and crossed over a line of acceptable behavior isn't a subject of debate. The argument is over just how bad it is and whether or not the consequences fit the "crime".
We have people such as yourself who claim that a single incident under a very specific circumstance where the line between reality and fantasy are intentionally blurred by the participants is somehow sufficient evidence to judge a person's character.
And that is a stupid assertion. Human beings are complicated creatures, we're fundamentally irrational and our behavior influenced by far too many factors to draw such conclusions from limited data sets.
A single incident of stupidity is not sufficient evidence to judge a person's character.
The thing is that EVE is a very particular kind of game that is attractive to a particular kind of player (people who love spreadsheets) the nature of PVP in the game is such that it quite litterally is not for the faint of heart. You have to accept and embrace the fact that the nature of the game universe means the morals and standards of behavior that we take for granted in our real lives no longer apply.
In essence EVE is a game where if one wants to trully be succesful you have to roleplay a hard-ass. You can't show weakness you don't whine, you don't beg, you take your licks and toss a GF(good fight) in local even when it was total gank.
That is the nature of the game and the way the bulk of the playerbase likes it. We like our brutal hard universe were we get to run around roleplaying egomaniacal immortals who are constantly trying to crush each other.
But that's in game you go to the forums however and ask a question without whinning and you'll find one of the most helpful communities in all of gaming.
Just like if you are an enemy of the Goons they are the biggest bunch of scamming griefing bastards in the game, but if you are their ally you couldn't ask for a better friend.
The thing about this incident is that the behavior in question is completely inconsistent with what I know of Alex's character, the bleeding heart leftist lawyer who I really believe was sincerely horrified by his behavior on the pannel.
Now maybe you are some sort of saint who's never done anything that was unkind but I've lived a long enough and hard enough life that I know plenty of incidents that I look back on with regret. As such I can see how Alex could have gotten himself into this mess and how it feels to find out that you've screwed up.
Given the nature of the alliance pannel and the expectations of the audience and the one ups-manship of participants of the pannel and the lowered inhibitions that come from the consumption of copious amounts of alchohol (and Jager is a mean drunk to begin with) it is perfectly understandable how one (particularly if they aren't accustomed to being in a drunken state) could make a joke that goes a little to far gets a tad to mean and too serious for the occasion.
But we have people such as yourself and all the other "The Mittani is an evil cyber-bully" crowd who've all apparently lead such cloistered lives that you've never said or done an unkind thing, that you must be teetotlers who have never experienced the drunken haze of over consumption of booze, who've never work up wondering "what the hell did I do last night and why are my pockets insideout?"
Now the truth is I don't believe anyone is that pure as such I think most of you are liars feigning outrage in order to excuse attacking someone you don't like based on the actions of his character in a video game. Which is frankly pathetic.
What I don't understand here is why we keep talking about The Mittani and EVE. If you were to look at this in the 1st person. Imagine yourself at a public speaking event where you were invited to discuss your favorite MMO because you became well known in the game. You get up in front of the audience and make a complete fool of yourself. Now everyone is talking about your ingame character in the game. That had nothing to do with the situation.
This is not about The Mittani and EVE. This is about Alex Gianturco's actions at a corporate sonsored public event. I really could care less about what The Mittani does in EVE. This incident did not happen in EVE. It happened IRL.
GeezerGamer because haters gonna hate. So many idi*ts hate goonswarms, specialy exbob members and their pets, and so many players mix the game with the reality.
A Hatter is someone who makes hats, don't understand why they would hate anything to do with a video game.
It makes no difference what you post, the Mittani completely destroyed any respect he every had and will never be anyone that matters in Eve ever again. Does not matter how many other characters he plays the game with, his ability to lead has been effectively destroyed.
Weather is was in a game or IRL dosn't make a differnce. Cyberbullying on the internet or bulling in real life is for kids who are social retards and are the true losers of our society anyways, because they can't hack it in the real world. The fact that this guy is in his late 20's just shows how much of a social retard he really is. People like him go around online being rude to people and hurassing them all the time. I'm happy he's going to jail. I'm sure bubba will like it when he drops to soap on the floor.
Yes, but I think it goes a lot further.
Take a look at this thread, the overwhelming majority of posters have referred to him this incident as The Mittani...IN THIS THREAD. Even we as 3rd party observers who weren't even involved cant separate this guy from his personna. Now wonder he's in the midst of an identity crisis.
Look at his pattern. An incident happens in game. He can't draw the line, he brings it public in real life. His consequences happen in real life. Alex Gianturco may have gotten banned from EVE, but The Mittani still exists, the character is still active in the databases, It just cannot be accessed by Mr. Gianturco for 30 days. The consequenses are on the real life side of the game, not in it. Once his account goes active again, it will be as he left it. But now, how does Mr. Gianturco decide to re establish himself from his IRL actions? The Mittani is going to mete out justice for the wrong doings visited upon Gianturco.
This guy needs to get out of this game and into something real. Before that reality crosses paths with the law as he came dangerously close once already.
Yes, he was WAY over the line for me, but he is not forcing ANYONE to do ANYTHING. That is the point that all too many people continue to either over look, or miss entirely. Anyone who acts upon his drunken nonsense, is doing so of their own free will. The same applies to everyone else.
Mixing this type of outragous (and irresponsible) SPEECH, with SERIOUS PHYSICAL crimes like murder and rape does a dis service to how SERIOUS the real ACTIONS involved are. As for the standards of "society" do you really want to open up that can of worms? At its most fundamental, its an appeal to numbers or might makes "right", and human history is filled with examples of the horrors that have resulted.
Anyone who is so unstable as to take *actions* against themselves because of a GAME, would have been triggered by something else eventually, in any event.
Your family have been affected by cyberbullying.To what degree? They have empathy for someone they know that actually got cyberbullied? Or have someone in your family been bullied?
Bullying is wrong, no matter where it is done. But using strong words in curcuimstances where they don't fit just makes the word either useless or plain offensive to people that actually been bullied.
Now I am asking you compare someone actually getting bullied to this situation.
There are quite a few differences.
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"
I don't think this needs to go any deeper. If that's not enough to satisfy you to justify my earleir statement, then I don't know what else to say.
Well, I am glad an article like this was posted. I hope we see more of them.
Far too many people think that, just because something is done online, it is completely outside the norms of morality. Absolutely anything goes, including harming others emotionally and perhaps through that emotional harm even physically.
It is also the essence of cowardice to hide behind a computer screen to commit atrocious deeds you would never dare IRL. That is why a huge uproar was raised when Blizzard threatened to force people to use their real names on the forums. The cowards and haters, stripped of their comforting little blankets to hide behind, realized that playtime was over. Too bad Blizzard caved.
I suspect that is why SWTOR decided not to have server forums. They always get dominated by the bottom feeders of the Internet who use them to abuse others and feed their own twisted self-image.
There are two types of wanna-be suiciders. First, you have the "I'm gonna kill myself!" types because they want attention (I was one of these when I was 15. (Was never ever going to really kill myself)). Second, you have the folks that kill themselfs (these people rarely states that they are going to).