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Will GW2 have any big boss fights with no tank class?

IGBTIGBT Renton, WAPosts: 21Member

I am assuming that since everyone can heal and there are no dedicated healers that everyone can tank and there are no dedicated tanks (would be silly to say we want groups to not have to look for healers and then require groups to look for tanks).

 

So...will there never be a monster that can 1 shot a non tank class since everyone can tank?  No longer will we have 5 people chaining heals on one person so they can withstand 30,000 point crits?

Or will a 40 man raid against a world boss just be a free for all with everyone grabbing agro, dying, then getting battle rezzed.

That could be quite interesting actually.

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Comments

  • Creslin321Creslin321 Baltimore, MDPosts: 5,359Member

    Heheh I think you probably assumed wrong when you assumed that every class can "tank" :).  My understanding is that there is no possible way in GW2 just absorb damage from a MOB for an extended period of time and not die horribly.  In other words, there is no tanking.

    There is damage CONTROL, which basically means somehow mitigating damage by things like CC, debuffs, or buffs...but there is no way to "tank" something.  From what I have seen, boss fights in GW2 seem to be about trying to find a way to use your team's abilities in order to overcome a challenge.

    So instead of just sending the tank in to take his beating while the healer heals...you may decide that you'll have your mesmer debuff the crap out of the boss, while the warrior uses his knockbacks to keep him away from the squishy casters that are pelting him with damage.  Then, when someone inevitably falls, the Guardian will use his bubble to give your team a chance to rez the fallen.

    Stuff like that...there is no one set strategy like the trinity, but there are many different strategies that will work.

     

    Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  • bookworm438bookworm438 Detroit, MIPosts: 647Member

    There are certainly tanky classes, and there are certainly classes (and builds of some classes such as earth ele) that can take more of a beating. However, there are no tanks in the tradition sense of standing in front of a mob and taking hit after hit. You will die quickly if you do that.

  • IGBTIGBT Renton, WAPosts: 21Member

    So...it won't be like when we took 25 level 1 characters and downed Hogger?  I am kind of dissapointed...

  • Arachneus1Arachneus1 Naugatuck, CTPosts: 248Member

    There is no way to control who holds aggro, so the "tank" class is now the "control" class who needs to keep the enemies away from whoever the mob decides to go after.  If your targeted you better be able to teleport, dodge, do whatever you can to keep your distance if you can't take a decent hit.  If you are an armor heavy class then you can take a few hits before calling your teammates to push him away while you go off and heal for a second.

  • Creslin321Creslin321 Baltimore, MDPosts: 5,359Member

    Originally posted by IGBT

    So...it won't be like when we took 25 level 1 characters and downed Hogger?  I am kind of dissapointed...

     Haha, I'm guessing it won't be like that :).  Maybe a mega dynamic event boss will be like that though, who knows!

    Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  • bookworm438bookworm438 Detroit, MIPosts: 647Member

    Well you have to understand healing in this game is not like other games. There are no ally targetted heals. Instead, some of your skills may have a secondary AoE effect in addition to it's initial effect. This could be, damages the enemy, but heals nearby allys.  There are ground targetted heals as well.

     

    The idea instead is that you should be more focused on controlling the mob, and proactively trying to prevent taking damage than watching red bars go up and down. If a mob becomes out of control, an ele could throw down a static field, or guardian could throw down a ward to trap a mob.  This will allow people a second to regroup and try a different tactic.

     

    Also to answer your question, yes there will be mobs that can kill you in 1-2 shots, especially if you are not at the right level. So therefore, the idea is to not get aggro. (Also note that the aggro system doesn't work like other MMOs. There is no taunting, or artificially creating aggro).

  • MaephistoMaephisto somewhere, DCPosts: 632Member

    I remember reading/hearing that aggro can be managed through proximity to the mob.  Am I wrong?

    image

  • BhorzoBhorzo Toronto, ONPosts: 192Member

    Originally posted by Maephisto

    I remember reading/hearing that aggro can be managed through proximity to the mob.  Am I wrong?

    ONE of many things mobs think about when deciding who to attack is proximity/range. The closer you are, the more likely the average mob will attack you. Note that this is only ONE factor out of many, and only applies to SOME mobs, SOME of the time. The Devs do, however, suggest that this is one of the more important factors in determining aggro.

  • bazakbazak Warner robins, GAPosts: 283Member

    Originally posted by Maephisto

    I remember reading/hearing that aggro can be managed through proximity to the mob.  Am I wrong?

    yes they only ever said proximity was a factor in agro not that it was the whole of their agro system.

     

    if you believe what they say (i do personaly since i played gw1) its based on who is easyest to kill (squishyest) and who is doing the most dmg and a number of other things that i cant remember atm, but they could have changed that since the last time i read about it.

  • MaephistoMaephisto somewhere, DCPosts: 632Member

    Originally posted by Bhorzo

    Originally posted by Maephisto

    I remember reading/hearing that aggro can be managed through proximity to the mob.  Am I wrong?

    ONE of many things mobs think about when deciding who to attack is proximity/range. The closer you are, the more likely the average mob will attack you. Note that this is only ONE factor out of many, and only applies to SOME mobs, SOME of the time. The Devs do, however, suggest that this is one of the more important factors in determining aggro.

    Thx for the info 

    As people have said above, there is no tank, but I dont figure you can let a dungeon boss bounce around unrestricted.  Thats why I thought proximity was the way to control this.  Team mates would have to be swapped out and take turns controlling the boss.

    image

  • ClassicstarClassicstar rotjeknorPosts: 2,690Member


    Originally posted by Maephisto

    Originally posted by Bhorzo

    Originally posted by Maephisto

    I remember reading/hearing that aggro can be managed through proximity to the mob.  Am I wrong?
    ONE of many things mobs think about when deciding who to attack is proximity/range. The closer you are, the more likely the average mob will attack you. Note that this is only ONE factor out of many, and only applies to SOME mobs, SOME of the time. The Devs do, however, suggest that this is one of the more important factors in determining aggro.


    Thx for the info 
    As people have said above, there is no tank, but I dont figure you can let a dungeon boss bounce around unrestricted.  Thats why I thought proximity was the way to control this.  Team mates would have to be swapped out and take turns controlling the boss.

    Work together and figure out how boss reacts and your ok your all TANK-HEALER-DPS now :)

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  • NaughtyPNaughtyP Edmonton, ABPosts: 793Member

    Use the dodge button!!!

    Enter a whole new realm of challenge and adventure.

  • IGBTIGBT Renton, WAPosts: 21Member

    With those type of game mechanics and no defined tank, I predict there will be some elite players who manage to figure out how to solo content meant for large groups.  I actually like this kind of out of the box playstyle.

  • skeaserskeaser Wichita Falls, TXPosts: 3,849Member Uncommon

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pX8GJcGIVbI

    Shatterer boss fight. Looks like a big boss fight to me.

  • therez0therez0 Ridgecrest, CAPosts: 379Member

    So far they have revealed several fairly big boss fights. Three of the revealed ones happen to be at the end of the tutorial sections (Giant earth elemental hand that flings boulders, an Ice Wurm that flings you around, and a possessed statue that frequently knocks people down). While not huge fights (only around 20 people max in the videos of those fights) they are great examples of whats to come.

    Plus, theres the videos of the fight vs. the shatterer and another videos of a second sub-dragon fight. These sub-dragon fights are massive and involved.


    So basically what everyone else has said above, now summarized:

    • Boss fights are mostly about learning the mechanic of the boss, and timing your counter.
    • Aggro mechanics are fairly involved. Factors include (speculation via extension from GW1):
      • Monster's Health. Low HP monster will try to avoid damage and will not favor attacking high Dmg targets.
      • Low HP/Downed Targets. High dmg monsters will favor attacking weak people to get them out of the fight
      • High Damage Targets. If a monster group is taking large dmg from a single source, the AI will change to that target, to mitigate dmg.
      • Proximity of target to weakened ally. Some of the smarter AI will collapse on targets that are attacking a weak ally (just like what players should do).
      • Targets using a healing skill. This was a big one in GW1, and probably has shifted to 'targets attempting to revive'
    • Larger boss fights will include more than just attacking the boss. Some people will need to man the cannons while others defend those cannon positions from boss-minions.
    • Some bosses will indeed be able to one-shot certain targets. (We saw as much in the video vs the undead dragon lieutenant, Eles and Mesmers were getting squished). The key to these fights will be to coordinate counters (dodge when you must, step behind defenses else).
  • jondifooljondifool cphPosts: 1,114Member

    Originally posted by IGBT

    I am assuming that since everyone can heal and there are no dedicated healers that everyone can tank and there are no dedicated tanks (would be silly to say we want groups to not have to look for healers and then require groups to look for tanks).

     

    So...will there never be a monster that can 1 shot a non tank class since everyone can tank?  No longer will we have 5 people chaining heals on one person so they can withstand 30,000 point crits?

    Or will a 40 man raid against a world boss just be a free for all with everyone grabbing agro, dying, then getting battle rezzed.

    That could be quite interesting actually.

     The short point is everybody can be 1 shotted, and everybody can ressurrect. So Clearly your option 2

    read how to create a succesfull mmo before posting about GW2. And read tao of ArenaNet before talking about innovation in GW2

  • Shroom_MageShroom_Mage Lafayette, LAPosts: 863Member

    Giant bosses don't exactly single out players. Sometimes they'll chase one down, but generally they'd do wide, sweeping attacks that hit anyone who doesn't get out of the way.

    There's more to removing tanks and healers than simply removing tanks and healers.

    "Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." -Dr. Seuss

  • SkuallSkuall UnknowPosts: 1,287Member Uncommon

    well u dont have tank classes but u have options to be more durable

     

    melee classes , have a shield option , shield comes with buffs , knockbacks , stuns

    caster : necro has the drains(+pets) in order to get some health back , elementalist > earth , slows, shield , knockbacks, debuffs.

    ranger for example : the greatsword option comes with some CC and debuffs

     

    and u can have further options if u spec it the right way :D

    that means u can tank a boss all the time? no , that means i have more surv. nothing more nothing less.

    i loss some dmg , or heal in order to have better debuffs , control or be more durable.

    options are always welcomed :D

     

     

     

  • NethriilNethriil OsloPosts: 178Member
    Not to be a downer but from what i ve seen boss fights are very static. So the fight will be the same every time you encounter it. I rather like the fights where you actually have to strategies and encounter changes depending on aggro etc. Anyway gw2 is a pure pvp game for me and i am looking forward to that
  • VolkonVolkon Sterling, VAPosts: 3,788Member

    Originally posted by Nethriil

    Not to be a downer but from what i ve seen boss fights are very static. So the fight will be the same every time you encounter it. I rather like the fights where you actually have to strategies and encounter changes depending on aggro etc. Anyway gw2 is a pure pvp game for me and i am looking forward to that

    Which boss fights you talking about? The training area ones, which are meant to be easily beatable but give you that first heroic taste of the game at level 1? The Shatterer and Tequatl, which have mechanics requiring these massive beasts to remain relatively in position? The dungeon boss fights, which have fully ambulatory bosses and continually changing challenges, especially for each group with a different set of professions?

     

    Need to specify the "boss fights" you're referring to.

    Oderint, dum metuant.
    image

  • sanshi44sanshi44 BrisbanePosts: 1,088Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by IGBT

    I am assuming that since everyone can heal and there are no dedicated healers that everyone can tank and there are no dedicated tanks (would be silly to say we want groups to not have to look for healers and then require groups to look for tanks).

     

    So...will there never be a monster that can 1 shot a non tank class since everyone can tank?  No longer will we have 5 people chaining heals on one person so they can withstand 30,000 point crits?

    Or will a 40 man raid against a world boss just be a free for all with everyone grabbing agro, dying, then getting battle rezzed.

    That could be quite interesting actually.

    You will be able to be one shotted by some mobs/skill you will need to use the dodge mechanic to dodge the big skill that can 1 shot you. Or certain skills a class may have.

  • ariboersmaariboersma Yankton, SDPosts: 1,802Member

    Originally posted by Nethriil

    Not to be a downer but from what i ve seen boss fights are very static. So the fight will be the same every time you encounter it. I rather like the fights where you actually have to strategies and encounter changes depending on aggro etc. Anyway gw2 is a pure pvp game for me and i am looking forward to that

    What boss in any game changes per encounter? Each boss in any game ever has a set of attacks, you alter what you do to counter them.. but they wont all of a sudden turn into another boss and do something different. Saying the GW2 is pureply PVP for you also means you don't even care about PVE at all. 

    image

  • LucioonLucioon Palm Harbor, FLPosts: 814Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by IGBT

    I am assuming that since everyone can heal and there are no dedicated healers that everyone can tank and there are no dedicated tanks (would be silly to say we want groups to not have to look for healers and then require groups to look for tanks).

     

    So...will there never be a monster that can 1 shot a non tank class since everyone can tank?  No longer will we have 5 people chaining heals on one person so they can withstand 30,000 point crits?

    Or will a 40 man raid against a world boss just be a free for all with everyone grabbing agro, dying, then getting battle rezzed.

    That could be quite interesting actually.

    There is no Aggro, the Boss jumps from player to player.

    Even if you got an guardian they will die in a few hits just like everyone, unless they are smart in getting their correct skills to escape an death punch then dodge out of the way. Or you got an skilled player that uses the terrain in its benefits and LOS every skills used against the player.

    I believe in GW2 its all about the kiting and conditions, its no longer about aggro, and tankiness.

    Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.

  • aguliondewaguliondew Nashville, TNPosts: 95Member

    Originally posted by IGBT

    With those type of game mechanics and no defined tank, I predict there will be some elite players who manage to figure out how to solo content meant for large groups.  I actually like this kind of out of the box playstyle.

    That will be difficult to from what I have seen. You can only dodge so much, champion mobs hit hard, and elite dynamic event are suppose to be done with multiple players. Even if you attempt to solo it eventually someone will come by and join in.

  • Loke666Loke666 MalmöPosts: 18,045Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by IGBT

    I am assuming that since everyone can heal and there are no dedicated healers that everyone can tank and there are no dedicated tanks (would be silly to say we want groups to not have to look for healers and then require groups to look for tanks).

    So...will there never be a monster that can 1 shot a non tank class since everyone can tank?  No longer will we have 5 people chaining heals on one person so they can withstand 30,000 point crits?

    Or will a 40 man raid against a world boss just be a free for all with everyone grabbing agro, dying, then getting battle rezzed.

    That could be quite interesting actually.

    I kinda doubt that most classes can be one shotted, possibly thiefs and eles but you can certainly go down fast if you don´t play just right as a team.

    The active dodging will also help a lot.

    I think it will be interesting. :)

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