I see some people saying things like "It's EVE; you're supposed to gank and attack random people", and "it's an online PvP game, you're supposed to be mean".
I for one have never attempted to gank someone in an online game who never attacked me to start with. If I see someone who is clearly just trying to have fun in their game and do what they need to do to survive, I leave them alone. If they see me and panic, a well-placed emote is more than enough to convince someone that you've let them off the hook. And you know what happens? When they run into me later and I'm in the middle of a fight, they don't join in and attack me. Weird, huh?
Sometimes, I really think it pays to be nice, even in a PvP game. What The Mittani did may have been claimed to be integral to the EVE community. Ganking, personal attacks, the deconstruction of property that has taken years to build and expand upon. Honestly, EVE, your community is sounding like a very cold and unappealing place.
EVE just seems like a game that you need to be a total sociopath to enjoy. It seems like you basically only make worthwhile successes at the costs of others. Then again, I think that's basically a trend in all sandbox MMOs. Ultima Online/Darkfall were all games that your most profitable moments came at the ruination of other people's hard work. UO, it was all about finding ways to loot their houses. Darkfall was all about destroying weeks/months worth of enemy guild's labor for a simple epeen boost.
I stopped enjoying shit like that when I grew up... at age 15.
Here, we have one of the community leaders of this game basically saying: "I fucked you in game. Glad your crying. Kill yourself while you're at it - here's the name of the whiner. Go encourage him to."
I think that's pretty telling of the kind of people who enjoy these games.
I see some people saying things like "It's EVE; you're supposed to gank and attack random people", and "it's an online PvP game, you're supposed to be mean".
I for one have never attempted to gank someone in an online game who never attacked me to start with. If I see someone who is clearly just trying to have fun in their game and do what they need to do to survive, I leave them alone. If they see me and panic, a well-placed emote is more than enough to convince someone that you've let them off the hook. And you know what happens? When they run into me later and I'm in the middle of a fight, they don't join in and attack me. Weird, huh?
Sometimes, I really think it pays to be nice, even in a PvP game. What The Mittani did may have been claimed to be integral to the EVE community. Ganking, personal attacks, the deconstruction of property that has taken years to build and expand upon. Honestly, EVE, your community is sounding like a very cold and unappealing place.
EVE just seems like a game that you need to be a total sociopath to enjoy. It seems like you basically only make worthwhile successes at the costs of others. Then again, I think that's basically a trend in all sandbox MMOs. Ultima Online/Darkfall were all games that your most profitable moments came at the ruination of other people's hard work. UO, it was all about finding ways to loot their houses. Darkfall was all about destroying weeks/months worth of enemy guild's labor for a simple epeen boost.
I stopped enjoying shit like that when I grew up... at age 15.
Here, we have one of the community leaders of this game basically saying: "I fucked you in game. Glad your crying. Kill yourself while you're at it - here's the name of the whiner. Go encourage him to."
I think that's pretty telling of the kind of people who enjoy these games.
no it's not. what's telling is the community backlash. one person was an ass, and then thousands jumped down his throat. that's telling. if you can't see that then you need to learn about statistics.
I've seen what EVE idiots say to each other in game. The rage was overblown, very political and hypocritical.
You can't convince me that people who act like complete retards in MMOs aren't complete retards outside of the game.
This was standard EVE trash talk, and people saw an opportunity to get back at an infamous villian. I say ban anyone in EVE who talks offensively, or reinstate Mittani with an apology. That would be a consistent message.
Jerks exist in ANY MMO. Literally, every single MMO I have ever played harbors a category of folks I just don't like to associate with.
The difference in EVE is that you have the ability to kill those players in-game. Someone harrass you? Do something about it. It's better than other games where you can't do anything about griefing players. In EVE, there is a risk associated with behaving like that. Reputation is actually earned due to its single-server architecture. This is another thing people don't realize when they think EVE has more of these people than other games. No... other games probably harbor an equal % of players just like this, but EVE's single server architecture means that EVERYONE experiences the same game. Everyone is aware of those people. Everyone in the entire game can be alerted to how badly someone acts. Sure those people probably have their own friends, but long-term, that bad reputation can harm someone's ability to play the game.
That's why it's kind of funny that anyone is shocked by The Mittani's behavior. He is the face of -Goonswarm-, the most childish, egotistical group in all of EVE. A group that THRIVES on that reputation. They WANT to be hated. I'm always surprised when someone says they were scammed by Goonswarm, because I have to wonder how they didn't know the group's reputation already. You'd have to be seriously not paying attention to let Goonswarm get under your skin or do something that takes advantage of you.
Edit: And further, in a space game, I -want- to be afraid when I'm out in unknown territory. I don't want to undock and travel across the galaxy with no danger. I want to be afraid that anyone could kill me at any time. I want to know that sometimes, when I run across another player, he might be just as afraid of me as I am of him. In outer space, there should be a sense of danger.. the unknown.. lawlessness, where you don't know who your enemies are until you encounter them. Earning a reputation helps with some of this.. if you get to know other players through how they act in-game, you know what they're capable of.
I see some people saying things like "It's EVE; you're supposed to gank and attack random people", and "it's an online PvP game, you're supposed to be mean".
I for one have never attempted to gank someone in an online game who never attacked me to start with. If I see someone who is clearly just trying to have fun in their game and do what they need to do to survive, I leave them alone. If they see me and panic, a well-placed emote is more than enough to convince someone that you've let them off the hook. And you know what happens? When they run into me later and I'm in the middle of a fight, they don't join in and attack me. Weird, huh?
Sometimes, I really think it pays to be nice, even in a PvP game. What The Mittani did may have been claimed to be integral to the EVE community. Ganking, personal attacks, the deconstruction of property that has taken years to build and expand upon. Honestly, EVE, your community is sounding like a very cold and unappealing place.
EVE just seems like a game that you need to be a total sociopath to enjoy. It seems like you basically only make worthwhile successes at the costs of others. Then again, I think that's basically a trend in all sandbox MMOs. Ultima Online/Darkfall were all games that your most profitable moments came at the ruination of other people's hard work. UO, it was all about finding ways to loot their houses. Darkfall was all about destroying weeks/months worth of enemy guild's labor for a simple epeen boost.
I stopped enjoying shit like that when I grew up... at age 15.
Here, we have one of the community leaders of this game basically saying: "I fucked you in game. Glad your crying. Kill yourself while you're at it - here's the name of the whiner. Go encourage him to."
I think that's pretty telling of the kind of people who enjoy these games.
no it's not. what's telling is the community backlash. one person was an ass, and then thousands jumped down his throat. that's telling. if you can't see that then you need to learn about statistics.
Oh please. Every indication I've seen shows it has nothing to do with moral indigation. They called for his head because they want to deal a blow to Goonsquad.
He's lucky to have been spared the rod of the new cyber bullying laws.
Mittens would have made for a cute correctional facility alias.
Not every country has fallen prey to the "progressive" non sense that is expressed in the "cyber bullying" laws. That phrase is so vague and so easy to abuse, that its already being used to attack those who "offend" the delicate sensitivities of various "progressive" causes.
There is no doubt that Mittens well and truly put his foot down his own throat with this drunken nonsense, but being removed from the CSM should be where it stops. Banning (temp or other wise) him for out of game activities (no matter how irresponsible and unwise) is only being done to appease certain hysterics. But that too is all to typical of the age we find ourselves in.
Reading this article was like reading someone trolling. I have to think the author might need to step out of his fictional worlds for some real world time, just as The Mittani should.
You have to draw a line somewhere, and what was said and done is not acceptable. Period, end of story. This was so unacceptable that the fact that this happened at all is a clear indication of deep disfunction in this person.
In my opinion it didn't go as far as it should have. Hell, it should have been a 60 minutes feature. The guy should have been permanently banned from the game, and criminal charges filed.
Anyone who thinks this isn't a big deal or too much has been made of it really needs to take a step back themselves and reconsider.
In the wake of all this, this Mittani is trying to use his "legendary" status to threaten mmo news organizations now. I don't believe his appology was genuine, and I think his status within this game world isn't the only thing now pointing to his disfunction.
...and by the way. I know many people following this story who do not play Eve (like myself) and don't give a rat's ass who the Goons are. I don't care what game you play...this has garnered interest across the community. Acusations that this is some effort of Eve players is idiotic.
Cyberbullying is a grave issue. Our schools are in chaos; teenagers are driving each other to self-harm with persistent online harassment. It is unequivocally ridiculous to suggest that a stumbling idiot in a wizard hat mouthing off (again, I make no denials - what I said was completely over the line) about an ingame character is the equivalent of youths harassing one another over Facebook until one is driven to suicide. Slapping the label ‘Cyberbully’ - with its high media profile and controversial nature - on my remark was not only manifestly inappropriate but reckless and irresponsible.
From the Incident:
"Incidentally, if you want to make the guy kill himself" and then gives out the guys in game name so that others may harass him.
Completely different from Cyberbullying........
How is this NOT Cyberbullying? It's done in Cyberspace, first he was harassed by Mittens and his goons, then Mittens goes on and suggests to others that they try and drive the guy to suicide.............
He got slapped with the label Cyberbully because thats what he F***ing did.
He's lucky to have been spared the rod of the new cyber bullying laws.
Mittens would have made for a cute correctional facility alias.
Not every country has fallen prey to the "progressive" non sense that is expressed in the "cyber bullying" laws. That phrase is so vague and so easy to abuse, that its already being used to attack those who "offend" the delicate sensitivities of various "progressive" causes.
There is no doubt that Mittens well and truly put his foot down his own throat with this drunken nonsense, but being removed from the CSM should be where it stops. Banning (temp or other wise) him for out of game activities (no matter how irresponsible and unwise) is only being done to appease certain hysterics. But that too is all to typical of the age we find ourselves in.
I think the problem is that when he was up on that stage he was not only talking for himself, but he was representing CCP. I could care less what he said if he said it on his own platform, but he was there at a CCP event. There to represent the players for CCP. Thus what he says is public image for CCP. He did not watch his mouth so CCP has to smack him for their image not so much to punish him to teach him a lesson. He has to go out in the cold for awhile while CCP shows how they deal with people that say those kind of things and fix their PR.
Cyberbullying is a grave issue. Our schools are in chaos; teenagers are driving each other to self-harm with persistent online harassment. It is unequivocally ridiculous to suggest that a stumbling idiot in a wizard hat mouthing off (again, I make no denials - what I said was completely over the line) about an ingame character is the equivalent of youths harassing one another over Facebook until one is driven to suicide. Slapping the label ‘Cyberbully’ - with its high media profile and controversial nature - on my remark was not only manifestly inappropriate but reckless and irresponsible.
From the Incident:
"Incidentally, if you want to make the guy kill himself" and then gives out the guys in game name so that others may harass him.
Completely different from Cyberbullying........
How is this NOT Cyberbullying? It's done in Cyberspace, first he was harassed by Mittens and his goons, then Mittens goes on and suggests to others that they try and drive the guy to suicide.............
He got slapped with the label Cyberbully because thats what he F***ing did.
The reason for this is there is no free speech, and never has been, say something thats not agreed by the masses and you'll be censored so fast your feet won't touch the ground.
Upshot being you don't dare say anything thats not mainstream in fear of being flamed to death.
Here's a qoute for those who know and sums it up rather succinctly:
"...Go back to bed, America. Your government has figured out how it all transpired. Go back to bed, America. Your government is in control again. Here. Here's American Gladiators. Watch this, shut up. Go back to bed, America. Here is American Gladiators. Here is 56 channels of it! Watch these pituitary retards bang their fucking skulls together and congratulate you on living in the land of freedom. Here you go, America! You are free to do as we tell you! You are free to do what we tell you!.."
If you believe something say it, you can only be wrong, you might even be right, but it's your right to speak and be heard, right or wrong.
That's a great Hick's quote but I don't see this as the same thing. Speech is free but no one is free from the consequences of their words. You can not urge others to harass a person in obvious need of help with the intent of driving them to kill themselves..without paying a price. We're suppose to be pursuing happiness..not misery.
"Speech is free but no one is free from the consequences of their words." - so lock him up? Then what does freedom of speech even mean. CCP can do whatever it wants they are not us based and a privete company. But there are many calling for more. Yes criminally you should be free to speak, some now claim not if it would possible hurt someone.
Really have to read any of the writings of people who outline this freedom in the US? Becuase they incited violence. Lets not confuse propaganda with reailty.
And agian he didn't want him to kill themself, he wanted to punish someone threatening him with suicde, anyone who states otherwise is obviously just in it for the outrage/blood, is obviously disingenuous, and/or lacks any semblance of logical and rational thought.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
Reading this article was like reading someone trolling. I have to think the author might need to step out of his fictional worlds for some real world time, just as The Mittani should.
You have to draw a line somewhere, and what was said and done is not acceptable. Period, end of story. This was so unacceptable that the fact that this happened at all is a clear indication of deep disfunction in this person.
In my opinion it didn't go as far as it should have. Hell, it should have been a 60 minutes feature. The guy should have been permanently banned from the game, and criminal charges filed.
Anyone who thinks this isn't a big deal or too much has been made of it really needs to take a step back themselves and reconsider.
In the wake of all this, this Mittani is trying to use his "legendary" status to threaten mmo news organizations now. I don't believe his appology was genuine, and I think his status within this game world isn't the only thing now pointing to his disfunction.
...and by the way. I know many people following this story who do not play Eve (like myself) and don't give a rat's ass who the Goons are. I don't care what game you play...this has garnered interest across the community. Acusations that this is some effort of Eve players is idiotic.
You say "a line has to draw a line somewhere", by whom? Indviduals for themselves? I'd quite agree. But all too many people seek to get government involved in these issues. They go on some Crusade or another to "right" the worlds "wrongs", using a system ruled for the most part, in most places, by self seeking sociopaths. Anyone not familiar with that reality, is either naive, or hasn't been paying attention.
Mittens went well over the top (as far as I'm concerned) with his drunken diatribe, but removal from the CSM should be the extent of any action taken by CCP. Much more than that is simply appeasing certain hysterics.
Later on you speak of this being on "60 minutes", and Mittens having "criminal charges filed". Why limit this to America? Perhaps this needs to be broadcast through out the world? Perhaps Mittens needs to be hauled before the International Court at the Hague?
Or perhaps, some people need to take a step back, take a deep breath, and realize that just because something is offensive, doesn't require the type of hysterical responses we've been seeing way too much of for the last few years?
Cyberbullying is a grave issue. Our schools are in chaos; teenagers are driving each other to self-harm with persistent online harassment. It is unequivocally ridiculous to suggest that a stumbling idiot in a wizard hat mouthing off (again, I make no denials - what I said was completely over the line) about an ingame character is the equivalent of youths harassing one another over Facebook until one is driven to suicide. Slapping the label ‘Cyberbully’ - with its high media profile and controversial nature - on my remark was not only manifestly inappropriate but reckless and irresponsible.
From the Incident:
"Incidentally, if you want to make the guy kill himself" and then gives out the guys in game name so that others may harass him.
Completely different from Cyberbullying........
How is this NOT Cyberbullying? It's done in Cyberspace, first he was harassed by Mittens and his goons, then Mittens goes on and suggests to others that they try and drive the guy to suicide.............
He got slapped with the label Cyberbully because thats what he F***ing did.
7:00-7:40 its stated that the theme was to tell others to kill themselves lol.... "I didn't mean to say it I was just drunk" doesn't work to well....
Got to love it. So if I convince others to pick on you I am not a bully.
Wait, but the agrument is if he had done this himself he wouldn't have been a bully, he is only a bully because he encouraged others to call that persons bluff.
Double speak much
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
This has to be the most epic grief in all MMO history. Any of you who say awww poor kid are morons. 20 accounts, read the facts checkmate. I pray to god I could grief someone and take all their shit and then find out they had 20 accounts. They would never hear the end of it. I would make fun of them until I could no longer produce words. This is probably the gayest attempt to care bear a bluebie player that I have ever seen.
It's just a game.
Period the end. If you don't like the outcome go out, get drunk, and bang a fat chick to forget about it.
Cyberbullying is a grave issue. Our schools are in chaos; teenagers are driving each other to self-harm with persistent online harassment. It is unequivocally ridiculous to suggest that a stumbling idiot in a wizard hat mouthing off (again, I make no denials - what I said was completely over the line) about an ingame character is the equivalent of youths harassing one another over Facebook until one is driven to suicide. Slapping the label ‘Cyberbully’ - with its high media profile and controversial nature - on my remark was not only manifestly inappropriate but reckless and irresponsible.
From the Incident:
"Incidentally, if you want to make the guy kill himself" and then gives out the guys in game name so that others may harass him.
Completely different from Cyberbullying........
How is this NOT Cyberbullying? It's done in Cyberspace, first he was harassed by Mittens and his goons, then Mittens goes on and suggests to others that they try and drive the guy to suicide.............
He got slapped with the label Cyberbully because thats what he F***ing did.
7:00-7:40 its stated that the theme was to tell others to kill themselves lol.... "I didn't mean to say it I was just drunk" doesn't work to well....
Got to love it. So if I convince others to pick on you I am not a bully.
Wait, but the agrument is if he had done this himself he wouldn't have been a bully, he is only a bully because he encouraged others to call that persons bluff.
Reading this article was like reading someone trolling. I have to think the author might need to step out of his fictional worlds for some real world time, just as The Mittani should.
You have to draw a line somewhere, and what was said and done is not acceptable. Period, end of story. This was so unacceptable that the fact that this happened at all is a clear indication of deep disfunction in this person.
In my opinion it didn't go as far as it should have. Hell, it should have been a 60 minutes feature. The guy should have been permanently banned from the game, and criminal charges filed.
Anyone who thinks this isn't a big deal or too much has been made of it really needs to take a step back themselves and reconsider.
In the wake of all this, this Mittani is trying to use his "legendary" status to threaten mmo news organizations now. I don't believe his appology was genuine, and I think his status within this game world isn't the only thing now pointing to his disfunction.
...and by the way. I know many people following this story who do not play Eve (like myself) and don't give a rat's ass who the Goons are. I don't care what game you play...this has garnered interest across the community. Acusations that this is some effort of Eve players is idiotic.
You say "a line has to draw a line somewhere", by whom? Indviduals for themselves? I'd quite agree. But all too many people seek to get government involved in these issues. They go on some Crusade or another to "right" the worlds "wrongs", using a system ruled for the most part, in most places, by self seeking sociopaths. Anyone not familiar with that reality, is either naive, or hasn't been paying attention.
Mittens went well over the top (as far as I'm concerned) with his drunken diatribe, but removal from the CSM should be the extent of any action taken by CCP. Much more than that is simply appeasing certain hysterics.
Later on you speak of this being on "60 minutes", and Mittens having "criminal charges filed". Why limit this to America? Perhaps this needs to be broadcast through out the world? Perhaps Mittens needs to be hauled before the International Court at the Hague?
Or perhaps, some people need to take a step back, take a deep breath, and realize that just because something is offensive, doesn't require the type of hysterical responses we've been seeing way too much of for the last few years?
How about this.... if we can't manage to draw the line ourselves you do realize there are many groups out there looking for crap like this to happen so they can step in and draw the line for us. If they draw the line then none of us are going to be happy.
And yes Mittens went over the top and then tried to blame it on Alcohol when it backlashed on him.
For f sake it is just a game! I lost so many ships and billions of isk, who cares. It is good game and for sure best sandbox out there but this is going out of proportions with that stupid drama about some whining guy who cry about lost isk, if i only could know his game character name i would gank him all day long. Do not play this kind of games if you are so sensible baby. My advice for game fanatics like that one-go out and do some sport and you will forget about stupid isk loss. And for Mittani- Forget this game who cares about them. In few months i can expect from some wow paladin to sue me in court because of ganking. It is same like in real life--20 years ago when we was fighting in school it was men's business, today you get social worker on your door when your son is involved in school fighting. I think i throw that stupid pc out from the window and go with my jaw English longbow for few weeks in to mountains. And i will now cancel my sub in Eve. My favorite game-NOT ANYMORE
I said my bit on the Eve forums in reply to the Mittani's appology.
As for this article some people will always go over the top, its human nature as we are pack hunters. When one sees a weakness others will follow and widen the wound caused, with each attack getting more and more extreme.
after reading this thread over and stepping back I have to say I am SO glad EVE is doing great i really am. As it keeps the trash like Mittani and like those defending Mittani over in EVE and away from other gamers.
keep up the good work CCP and please don't fold I would hate to see these people in the MMOs i play.
I disagree fundamentally with this article, using a public platform which was being broadcast over the internet to call on people to harrass someone who may have mental health issues with the stated aim of trying to get him to commit suicide, even if said in poor jest, is inexcusable and is in no way diminished by associated misreporting or the glee taken by his in game enemies. The writer of this article should be ashamed at having written this.
This is actually a critical point.
It is right that online media themselves are often guilty of the same sins they report, but is it also right that they could and did condemn a player for going to far. Games need to stay inside the games, not spill over into the real world.
EVE is not the only game in which this has happened, by the way. Same thing in Darkfall, just massively fewer players in that niche game to see it. The very concept of trying to reach past the computer to cause real-world harm to your in-game enemies is simply so wrong ... and yet it is more common than those who play FFA PvP MMO games wish to admit.
-----
And ironically, this just remined me how much I actually miss EVE ... accountants in space is addictive. In part because it has real drama. But there must still be lines, and it is not right to cross them.
What Mittens did was wrong, nobody disagrees about that. What people disagree about is HOW wrong he was.
He drunkenly gave the Pilot Name of somebody that claimed they were suicidal. I say claimed because the circumstances are pretty important. You are talking about a person who just got one pulled over on him, in Eve online where that happens constantly, talking to the person that got him and confiding in him that he is suicidal. I cannot possibly think of a more farfetched situation than that.
For those that haven't played Eve, you need to realize that this is a place where lying and scamming are encouraged. The chances that this person that Mittens called out was telling the truth are about as likely as the players claim that they actively manage all 22 of their accounts at the same time rather than botting.
Either way though, he made a mistake. He apologized for it. He resigned from the CSM voluntarily, before CCP decided anything. People jumping at this as a sign of weakness trying to bring down the empire he sits atop are disgusting, and I am glad this article points out the incredible hypocrisy of any eve player trying to pull a holier-than-thou by denouncing mittens actions. What he did in public in a drunken stupor is nothing compared to what thousands of eve players do every day hiding behind their characters. The people hoping to use this as a way to try and strike back at the goons or delay further supercap balancing are not only pathetic, but failing miserably. This entire stunt will only slightly delay the balancing, and a temporary ban of mittens isn't going to slow the goons in the slightest.
Finally, the people thinking there is some kind of law mittens could be affected by are so ignorant of both the laws and what transpired that it is maddening. You think that somebody telling people to harass an online moniker in a video game through in game means without divulging any real life information is illegal? More so you think it is illegal when it is not a child but a full grown adult man? You think it is illegal when the supposed "victim" not only didn't hurt themself, but said that it didn't bother them in the slightest? Further you think it is illegal in iceland? I will not even continue down this path of absurdity as it is an insult to everyone reading.
Comments
EVE just seems like a game that you need to be a total sociopath to enjoy. It seems like you basically only make worthwhile successes at the costs of others. Then again, I think that's basically a trend in all sandbox MMOs. Ultima Online/Darkfall were all games that your most profitable moments came at the ruination of other people's hard work. UO, it was all about finding ways to loot their houses. Darkfall was all about destroying weeks/months worth of enemy guild's labor for a simple epeen boost.
I stopped enjoying shit like that when I grew up... at age 15.
Here, we have one of the community leaders of this game basically saying: "I fucked you in game. Glad your crying. Kill yourself while you're at it - here's the name of the whiner. Go encourage him to."
I think that's pretty telling of the kind of people who enjoy these games.
Sigh. Are you awake?
"The game is the game" . . . . who's principal component is RL people. Not NPCs.
As such, it is a component of RL given the primary dynamic is interaction with RL people.
Just sayin.
Wherever you go, there you are.
no it's not. what's telling is the community backlash. one person was an ass, and then thousands jumped down his throat. that's telling. if you can't see that then you need to learn about statistics.
I've seen what EVE idiots say to each other in game. The rage was overblown, very political and hypocritical.
You can't convince me that people who act like complete retards in MMOs aren't complete retards outside of the game.
This was standard EVE trash talk, and people saw an opportunity to get back at an infamous villian. I say ban anyone in EVE who talks offensively, or reinstate Mittani with an apology. That would be a consistent message.
Jerks exist in ANY MMO. Literally, every single MMO I have ever played harbors a category of folks I just don't like to associate with.
The difference in EVE is that you have the ability to kill those players in-game. Someone harrass you? Do something about it. It's better than other games where you can't do anything about griefing players. In EVE, there is a risk associated with behaving like that. Reputation is actually earned due to its single-server architecture. This is another thing people don't realize when they think EVE has more of these people than other games. No... other games probably harbor an equal % of players just like this, but EVE's single server architecture means that EVERYONE experiences the same game. Everyone is aware of those people. Everyone in the entire game can be alerted to how badly someone acts. Sure those people probably have their own friends, but long-term, that bad reputation can harm someone's ability to play the game.
That's why it's kind of funny that anyone is shocked by The Mittani's behavior. He is the face of -Goonswarm-, the most childish, egotistical group in all of EVE. A group that THRIVES on that reputation. They WANT to be hated. I'm always surprised when someone says they were scammed by Goonswarm, because I have to wonder how they didn't know the group's reputation already. You'd have to be seriously not paying attention to let Goonswarm get under your skin or do something that takes advantage of you.
Edit: And further, in a space game, I -want- to be afraid when I'm out in unknown territory. I don't want to undock and travel across the galaxy with no danger. I want to be afraid that anyone could kill me at any time. I want to know that sometimes, when I run across another player, he might be just as afraid of me as I am of him. In outer space, there should be a sense of danger.. the unknown.. lawlessness, where you don't know who your enemies are until you encounter them. Earning a reputation helps with some of this.. if you get to know other players through how they act in-game, you know what they're capable of.
Oh please. Every indication I've seen shows it has nothing to do with moral indigation. They called for his head because they want to deal a blow to Goonsquad.
It's just sick.
Not every country has fallen prey to the "progressive" non sense that is expressed in the "cyber bullying" laws. That phrase is so vague and so easy to abuse, that its already being used to attack those who "offend" the delicate sensitivities of various "progressive" causes.
There is no doubt that Mittens well and truly put his foot down his own throat with this drunken nonsense, but being removed from the CSM should be where it stops. Banning (temp or other wise) him for out of game activities (no matter how irresponsible and unwise) is only being done to appease certain hysterics. But that too is all to typical of the age we find ourselves in.
Reading this article was like reading someone trolling. I have to think the author might need to step out of his fictional worlds for some real world time, just as The Mittani should.
You have to draw a line somewhere, and what was said and done is not acceptable. Period, end of story. This was so unacceptable that the fact that this happened at all is a clear indication of deep disfunction in this person.
In my opinion it didn't go as far as it should have. Hell, it should have been a 60 minutes feature. The guy should have been permanently banned from the game, and criminal charges filed.
Anyone who thinks this isn't a big deal or too much has been made of it really needs to take a step back themselves and reconsider.
In the wake of all this, this Mittani is trying to use his "legendary" status to threaten mmo news organizations now. I don't believe his appology was genuine, and I think his status within this game world isn't the only thing now pointing to his disfunction.
...and by the way. I know many people following this story who do not play Eve (like myself) and don't give a rat's ass who the Goons are. I don't care what game you play...this has garnered interest across the community. Acusations that this is some effort of Eve players is idiotic.
http://www.tentonhammer.com/eve/spymaster/77
From the Apology:
Cyberbullying is a grave issue. Our schools are in chaos; teenagers are driving each other to self-harm with persistent online harassment. It is unequivocally ridiculous to suggest that a stumbling idiot in a wizard hat mouthing off (again, I make no denials - what I said was completely over the line) about an ingame character is the equivalent of youths harassing one another over Facebook until one is driven to suicide. Slapping the label ‘Cyberbully’ - with its high media profile and controversial nature - on my remark was not only manifestly inappropriate but reckless and irresponsible.
From the Incident:
"Incidentally, if you want to make the guy kill himself" and then gives out the guys in game name so that others may harass him.
Completely different from Cyberbullying........
How is this NOT Cyberbullying? It's done in Cyberspace, first he was harassed by Mittens and his goons, then Mittens goes on and suggests to others that they try and drive the guy to suicide.............
He got slapped with the label Cyberbully because thats what he F***ing did.
Gotta love crap like this....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=SKC00a0ovTA#t=42%202s
7:00-7:40 its stated that the theme was to tell others to kill themselves lol.... "I didn't mean to say it I was just drunk" doesn't work to well....
I think the problem is that when he was up on that stage he was not only talking for himself, but he was representing CCP. I could care less what he said if he said it on his own platform, but he was there at a CCP event. There to represent the players for CCP. Thus what he says is public image for CCP. He did not watch his mouth so CCP has to smack him for their image not so much to punish him to teach him a lesson. He has to go out in the cold for awhile while CCP shows how they deal with people that say those kind of things and fix their PR.
Got to love it. So if I convince others to pick on you I am not a bully.
"Speech is free but no one is free from the consequences of their words." - so lock him up? Then what does freedom of speech even mean. CCP can do whatever it wants they are not us based and a privete company. But there are many calling for more. Yes criminally you should be free to speak, some now claim not if it would possible hurt someone.
Really have to read any of the writings of people who outline this freedom in the US? Becuase they incited violence. Lets not confuse propaganda with reailty.
And agian he didn't want him to kill themself, he wanted to punish someone threatening him with suicde, anyone who states otherwise is obviously just in it for the outrage/blood, is obviously disingenuous, and/or lacks any semblance of logical and rational thought.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
You say "a line has to draw a line somewhere", by whom? Indviduals for themselves? I'd quite agree. But all too many people seek to get government involved in these issues. They go on some Crusade or another to "right" the worlds "wrongs", using a system ruled for the most part, in most places, by self seeking sociopaths. Anyone not familiar with that reality, is either naive, or hasn't been paying attention.
Mittens went well over the top (as far as I'm concerned) with his drunken diatribe, but removal from the CSM should be the extent of any action taken by CCP. Much more than that is simply appeasing certain hysterics.
Later on you speak of this being on "60 minutes", and Mittens having "criminal charges filed". Why limit this to America? Perhaps this needs to be broadcast through out the world? Perhaps Mittens needs to be hauled before the International Court at the Hague?
Or perhaps, some people need to take a step back, take a deep breath, and realize that just because something is offensive, doesn't require the type of hysterical responses we've been seeing way too much of for the last few years?
Wait, but the agrument is if he had done this himself he wouldn't have been a bully, he is only a bully because he encouraged others to call that persons bluff.
Double speak much
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
This has to be the most epic grief in all MMO history. Any of you who say awww poor kid are morons. 20 accounts, read the facts checkmate. I pray to god I could grief someone and take all their shit and then find out they had 20 accounts. They would never hear the end of it. I would make fun of them until I could no longer produce words. This is probably the gayest attempt to care bear a bluebie player that I have ever seen.
It's just a game.
Period the end. If you don't like the outcome go out, get drunk, and bang a fat chick to forget about it.
You are a bully for doing both.
Anyone not following Jester should be. April 28th is going to be an interesting day for EvE Online. (DNRA)
I never could take Eve seriously and I never will.
How about this.... if we can't manage to draw the line ourselves you do realize there are many groups out there looking for crap like this to happen so they can step in and draw the line for us. If they draw the line then none of us are going to be happy.
And yes Mittens went over the top and then tried to blame it on Alcohol when it backlashed on him.
For f sake it is just a game! I lost so many ships and billions of isk, who cares. It is good game and for sure best sandbox out there but this is going out of proportions with that stupid drama about some whining guy who cry about lost isk, if i only could know his game character name i would gank him all day long. Do not play this kind of games if you are so sensible baby. My advice for game fanatics like that one-go out and do some sport and you will forget about stupid isk loss. And for Mittani- Forget this game who cares about them. In few months i can expect from some wow paladin to sue me in court because of ganking. It is same like in real life--20 years ago when we was fighting in school it was men's business, today you get social worker on your door when your son is involved in school fighting. I think i throw that stupid pc out from the window and go with my jaw English longbow for few weeks in to mountains. And i will now cancel my sub in Eve. My favorite game-NOT ANYMORE
I said my bit on the Eve forums in reply to the Mittani's appology.
As for this article some people will always go over the top, its human nature as we are pack hunters. When one sees a weakness others will follow and widen the wound caused, with each attack getting more and more extreme.
after reading this thread over and stepping back I have to say I am SO glad EVE is doing great i really am. As it keeps the trash like Mittani and like those defending Mittani over in EVE and away from other gamers.
keep up the good work CCP and please don't fold I would hate to see these people in the MMOs i play.
This is actually a critical point.
It is right that online media themselves are often guilty of the same sins they report, but is it also right that they could and did condemn a player for going to far. Games need to stay inside the games, not spill over into the real world.
EVE is not the only game in which this has happened, by the way. Same thing in Darkfall, just massively fewer players in that niche game to see it. The very concept of trying to reach past the computer to cause real-world harm to your in-game enemies is simply so wrong ... and yet it is more common than those who play FFA PvP MMO games wish to admit.
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And ironically, this just remined me how much I actually miss EVE ... accountants in space is addictive. In part because it has real drama. But there must still be lines, and it is not right to cross them.
What Mittens did was wrong, nobody disagrees about that. What people disagree about is HOW wrong he was.
He drunkenly gave the Pilot Name of somebody that claimed they were suicidal. I say claimed because the circumstances are pretty important. You are talking about a person who just got one pulled over on him, in Eve online where that happens constantly, talking to the person that got him and confiding in him that he is suicidal. I cannot possibly think of a more farfetched situation than that.
For those that haven't played Eve, you need to realize that this is a place where lying and scamming are encouraged. The chances that this person that Mittens called out was telling the truth are about as likely as the players claim that they actively manage all 22 of their accounts at the same time rather than botting.
Either way though, he made a mistake. He apologized for it. He resigned from the CSM voluntarily, before CCP decided anything. People jumping at this as a sign of weakness trying to bring down the empire he sits atop are disgusting, and I am glad this article points out the incredible hypocrisy of any eve player trying to pull a holier-than-thou by denouncing mittens actions. What he did in public in a drunken stupor is nothing compared to what thousands of eve players do every day hiding behind their characters. The people hoping to use this as a way to try and strike back at the goons or delay further supercap balancing are not only pathetic, but failing miserably. This entire stunt will only slightly delay the balancing, and a temporary ban of mittens isn't going to slow the goons in the slightest.
Finally, the people thinking there is some kind of law mittens could be affected by are so ignorant of both the laws and what transpired that it is maddening. You think that somebody telling people to harass an online moniker in a video game through in game means without divulging any real life information is illegal? More so you think it is illegal when it is not a child but a full grown adult man? You think it is illegal when the supposed "victim" not only didn't hurt themself, but said that it didn't bother them in the slightest? Further you think it is illegal in iceland? I will not even continue down this path of absurdity as it is an insult to everyone reading.