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Originally posted by White_TreeWhy do people think I'm conducting some sort of 'Mittani Apologism' here. I pointed out what he did was stupid and wrong, I also pointed out he apologised. The ultimate point I was trying to make was that by witch-hunting a person, our actions become as vile or worse than the actions of the original perpetrator. I think mob justice is ridiculous.
Originally posted by White_Tree Why do people think I'm conducting some sort of 'Mittani Apologism' here. I pointed out what he did was stupid and wrong, I also pointed out he apologised. The ultimate point I was trying to make was that by witch-hunting a person, our actions become as vile or worse than the actions of the original perpetrator. I think mob justice is ridiculous.
Agreed, it is. It's cliche but 2 wrongs don't make a right.
But neither does the fact that he is reaping what he has sewn absolve him of his behavior in the 1st place.
Another issue here is that people keep bringing up the actions of the Mittani.
None of this happened in EVE. It was NOT Mittani but Gianturco. And Gianturco needs to answer for the actions of Gianturco at a corporate sponsored public event.
NOT The Mittani.
Thefact that the consistent behavior of some ficticious role played character in a virtual environment can be used to excuse the real life behavior of a flesh and blood human being shows a very real disconnect from reality.
Lets not pretend what he did was a good or socially acceptable thing, but I accept that his apology was real, personally. I know the guy, to some extent. I worked with him on the CSM and I genuinely believe he fumbled the ball and the price exacted for it is more than apt. He himself expressed regret and I honestly feel thats noble of him. My primary complaint, personally, was with the aformentioned witch-hunt that occured.
Originally posted by White_Tree Lets not pretend what he did was a good or socially acceptable thing, but I accept that his apology was real, personally. I know the guy, to some extent. I worked with him on the CSM and I genuinely believe he fumbled the ball and the price exacted for it is more than apt. He himself expressed regret and I honestly feel thats noble of him. My primary complaint, personally, was with the aformentioned witch-hunt that occured.
He should not be publically persecuted.
But as you can see, if you are not careful with what you do in public, it can have some very real effects.
It's the irony that he is having to face the very thing he urged on someoen else.
No, there is no satisfaction, but there is a lesson.
I'm going to be honest here...
If you are going to accept that it's okay to harass an Eve player completely through in-game mechanisms, then I don't see why it's not okay to harass an Eve player by verbally telling other Eve players to harass them.
What makes one okay and the other not? Don't they have the exact same end result?
I'm kind of surprised at all the heat The Mittani got for this. Everyone seems to think that it's perfectly okay to be an absolute prick in game...but if you ever say anything dickish outside of game, about another player's CHARACTER, then slooow down there buddy!
I could see the outrage if the Mittani gave our W's real name or address or something, but he didn't. It's just normal Eve prickism.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Agreed. However, it seems that it is again fashionable to "lynch" someone without due process. The pot was stirred by the media and those without self control became lemmings and just followed the first guy that said "get 'em". I am not defending anyone here. I am just saying that due process has a place and a part to play and should therefore be given the chance to play out. Just as Mr. McDermott points out, EVERYONE has played a part in this fiasco and none of it is without tarnish.
Let's party like it is 1863!
Originally posted by Zaltark Eve breeds cyber bullies. Have yal played the game? All you do is gank unknown people.
i've played since 2007 (january 2007 mind you) and i've been ganked a grand total of one time.
i wish people (especially people who have little to no knowledge of the game) would stop making off the cuff comments about the game that so many of us love.
if you search for gank you will find it. if you avoid gank you will be fine. eve is the great game it is because you can find what you are looking for in it.
that being said, mittens is to me an enriching figure in eve precisely because he's the guy everyone hates (the article's author alludes to this) and that type of thing is great for the game. he took it a bit too far and paid the price which he deserved. when he comes back, which i hope he does, it'll be legendary. I can't wait for the gnashing of teeth.
the above is from the point of view of someone who has been a memer of mittens' federation and in one of its old enemies.
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, DFUW
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
Dwight D Eisenhower
My optimism wears heavy boots and is loud.
Originally posted by White_TreeLets not pretend what he did was a good or socially acceptable thing, but I accept that his apology was real, personally. I know the guy, to some extent. I worked with him on the CSM and I genuinely believe he fumbled the ball and the price exacted for it is more than apt. He himself expressed regret and I honestly feel thats noble of him. My primary complaint, personally, was with the aformentioned witch-hunt that occured.
as they say in eve, HTFU!
Defending his actions is almost as bad and despicable as his actions.
NEW IDEAS that can refresh the STALE state of MMORPGs
why would anyone let a child speak at an even like Fan Fest? clearly this mittani kid is too young, and not educated/mature enough to speak at any event, lmao. this whole story is stupid. and everyone involved with this story does nothing other than play games basically every day.... none of them are worth writing about.
Originally posted by itchmon Originally posted by Zaltark Eve breeds cyber bullies. Have yal played the game? All you do is gank unknown people.
Are you pirates still trying to find new victims ....lol
I've played EVE just as long, and I can tell you that ganking and scamming players is the heart of EVE. There are miners in .9 sec getting ganked by suicide pirates, who sometimes get away.
Point is, this is EVE folks, if your carefull you may not get scammed or ganked, but mostly likely you will, if you cant take it, then stay away from EVE because it aint changin.
Originally posted by lance999as they say in eve, HTFU!
Originally posted by itchmon Originally posted by Zaltark Eve breeds cyber bullies. Have yal played the game? All you do is gank unknown people.
So, then. "Lesson learned"?
If what this article says is true, a fix is quite simple. Just have W. provide an official statement on the Eve Online forums proving his real name was not used, nor was he harrassed in real life. While a lot of folks may say this isn't as clear as black and white, it actually is. This is how humanity works. You're guilty until proven innocent.
I see some people saying things like "It's EVE; you're supposed to gank and attack random people", and "it's an online PvP game, you're supposed to be mean".
I for one have never attempted to gank someone in an online game who never attacked me to start with. If I see someone who is clearly just trying to have fun in their game and do what they need to do to survive, I leave them alone. If they see me and panic, a well-placed emote is more than enough to convince someone that you've let them off the hook. And you know what happens? When they run into me later and I'm in the middle of a fight, they don't join in and attack me. Weird, huh?
Sometimes, I really think it pays to be nice, even in a PvP game. What The Mittani did may have been claimed to be integral to the EVE community. Ganking, personal attacks, the deconstruction of property that has taken years to build and expand upon. Honestly, EVE, your community is sounding like a very cold and unappealing place.
I'm really sick of the whole "There's a massive fanbase for X", or "Y would be a WoW-killer if it just had a chance".
There is no massive conspiracy waiting in the MMO playerbase.
There are no "sleeper-agent fans" waiting to convert once the X or Y is unleashed on the world.
I really do not care what Mittens did to get the ban/removal from CSM. What bothers me is the actions that he and goonswarm have been taking since then.
IMO CCP should take a firm stand on these type of actions and either perma-ban Mittens for being a super doucher, or disband Goonswarm.
This article is rubbish. Seriously, its a lot of words saying nothing. To anybody who doesn't currently play EVE, you basically just said - "something happened". Wow really?
Somehow this is news worthy. If this were a private blog, fair enough. But this is a weekly column of MMORPG. And this article was definitely not worthy of anything short of a personal diary entry.
Incidently, whatever happened to the Mittani was well deserved and you sound like a Mitanni apologist. If he is sane of mind, as he no doubt claims, then he did it with full cognizance of the possible ramifications. He tended to take everything to extremes throughout all the years of his community prominence - even more so than 99% of other EVE players. Most other people know when to draw the line - when a joke has gone too far.
Personally, I believe he is sociopathic and needs help, or is just socially mal-adjusted, has something to prove to his fellow Goonswarm players - though I cannot imagine what.
Speaking as an ex-EVE player who left the game due to Goonswarm's influence on CCP and the community, I feel feathers for his "misfortune" because its honestly not misfortune when he brought it on himself. He has a loooong history of cyber-abuse, manipulating the media (his targeted smear campaigns) to harm CCP as a company, and generally admitting publically that he enjoys griefing other people. And you dare point fingers at the community for having enough finally.
The EVE community is already, by and large, a hardened community - accustomed to a moderate amount of all of these things. What must an individual do to push those limits? Think about that.
Now I have no problems with the pvp and killing other players ingame, the stealing, the espionage, etc - those are mechanics which EVE makes available to players and many players use them to the fullest. But only certain players gloat and taunt. And of those, only certain players gloat and taunt publically. Wow.
BTW That behaviour is not professionalism, White Tree, so I'm not sure in what universe you would use that term to refer to him as that.
Even if he had said nothing at all, he would be guilty of so much which came before. You compare him to some person with questionable personal beliefs. Personal beliefs, or even statements, do not stack up against actions. And unfortunately for the Mittani, he has years of actions to atone for. A Temporary Ban. HA! What a laugh.
And before you think me some bitter victim - I had never met or crossed-paths with the Mittani in-game. But having been an 0.0 EVE player for several years, I saw the effects of Goonswarm's constant meta-gaming. They are masters of not knowing where to draw the line. They are masters of taking vendetta's outside the game. And he is their leader.
And this is the very last article of yours I will read.
The problem is more in how more and more internet people are starving for public virtual executions. It's the Middle Ages all again. It's interesting to note that humanity is evolving backwards on the internet : first it was all gentlemen, then it was coallitions, then now it is Middle Ages ... Next step is what ? Total war ?
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This Mittani guy should be permanently banned from EVE online. Those slides were prepared before hand so using being drunk as an excuse doesn't work. He also had a wizard hat on while mocking a guy named thewiz.
Had that player actually killed himself Mittani (the real life person) could have been held legally accountable. So the right thing for CCP to do is ban him permanently.
As someone who just started playing Eve, I'm really disapponted in the community so far.
When I read this article , all I thought was it sounded like a personal blog entry , airing dirty laundry about asshats in the game . It's rather beyond goofy.
It's very sad and extremely poor behavior on the parts of many involved, drunk or not. Unstable or not -- and what's worse is it's condoned as " its an MMO, it's just a game, people should get over it".. There are real people behind the avatars. Never say what happens on game doesn't effect the players personally or that it shoudln't effect them . It always does on some level.
They should rebrand this game, "Drama Queens in Space."
ugh this whole thing is so effing depressing
And mostly because the Mittani actually has to do this social kowtow for the idiotic masses. Goddangit, its so depressing I can't even express how depressing it is. What is wrong with these people /facepalm
The Mittani did NOTHING WRONG - and your offended feelings do NOT MAKE YOU RIGHT!
For me it works like this......
When it comes to PvP trash talk, goading and such are expected. Sore losers and winners are expected. Gloating is expected.
What should not be expected or tolerated is the level of cyber bullying that has become the norm. Go kill yourself is uttered I can't count how many times now in most games. This to me should not be acceptable but many seem to feel it is.
We can say it's just a game and what we say to others or how we treat others doesn't matter because it's just a game. But all we are doing is trying to justify the behavoir. It's wrong, we know it's wrong yet still we try to justify it.
If it continues to be allowed it's only going to get worse which has already proven to be true because we HAVE gotten worse.
The fact that you feel remorse for someone that told someone they should kill themselves and encourage others to goade said person into doing so speaks loud and clear about how far we have fallen.
Many like the mantra "It's just a game" yet many that spout this mantra treat these games like they are War Zones.
A line needs to be drawn somewhere, we are sinking lower and lower as time goes on.
Our actions affect others whether we think they should or not, regardless of whether it's just a game or not.
There are many instances of suicide and violence related to what has been done or said in video games. At what point do we draw then line and say thats not acceptable?
Do I have remorse for Mittens? Not a drop, he told someone they should kill themselves. He encourage, actually he outright asked others to do the same. I personally think he got off extremely light.
Mentally unstable people play these games, kids play these games, People with deficiencies play these games. We know this, Mittens knows this and you want us to feel remorseful that someone from a group known for taking things to far got off light?
It's just a game.... so why go out of your way to try and cause pain and suffering?
I wish there was a "Dislike" or "Not cool" option, just a way to publicly show my dislike on a "Column" without so much drama...and/or writing....
Also I think we should know beforehand when a "column" is written by a mmorpg staff or... let's say somebody else. It took me a while to know that.