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Guild Wars 2: Guild Wars 2 - Why World vs. World Will Rule

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  • PivotelitePivotelite Hamilton, ONPosts: 2,167Member



    Originally posted by EricDanie



    Originally posted by mbeach90266

    Anonymity in PvP is a big let down

        I want to earn a name for myself, I want to be able to hunt down someone who's earned a name for themselves, I want to be able to exact revenge upon someone who got the kill on me.

    None of that can happen if you can't see someone's name.

    I don't like the anonymity factor either, but I guess the reputation will go for Guild tags.

    It seems player reputation will be exclusive to structured PvP.

    I think they really need to add in guild tags in the form of an image that are viewable in game, I would love to get to know what guilds do what and who to look out for.

     

    TERA may be a completely different niche than GW2 but they have it so a little image you can upload for your guild appears beside your name, just in the BETA guilds have already earned huge reputations, made rivals and made friends because the image is so distinguishable. It's a really great feature the game has in my opinion and it creates a bigger sense of community, something all MMOS are lacking these days.

    That being said I am pretty interested in how WvW plays out and look forward to playing it with my guild.



     

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  • SuraknarSuraknar Montreal, QCPosts: 824Member

    Good video fianlly,

    I was starting to get annoyed bythe fact that the VP kept saying "this is so cool this is PvP" and all they were doing was to engage NPC's...(aka PVE).

    But at the end he said "just immagine the batles here that will take place"...once the game is out that is. I beleive it will be something to rejoice about and looking froward to it.

    The actual mechanics of taking keeps look good, a bit too WAR familliar but since this is between 3 servers (a la DAOC) it should be much more active than it was in WAR, and fun as a result.

    Cheers!

    - Duke Suraknar -
    Order of the Silver Star, OSS

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    ESKA, Playing MMORPG's since Ultima Online 1997 - Order of the Silver Serpent, Atlantic Shard

  • fiontarfiontar Dana, MAPosts: 3,719Member

    Good basic list of pros and potential cons.

    Community issues will be lessened by the fact that you can't see opponents names or talk to them in game and the fact that there will be new server matchups every two weeks.

    Depersonalizing the enemy should actually be very liberating for most people and it also eliminated real or perceived greifing to a great degree. Bring an alternate set of armor and you might as well be two seperate people as far as your enemies are concerned! :)

    Another thing I don't see often mentioned is that not only do you not know your enemies by name, but you can't tell what their true level is. Every open field engagement will contain a huge element of the unknown. This should make the entire experience more exciting. Some people will engage everyone and hope they don't bite of more than they can chew. Others may always play the role of the "overly cautious" and run away from all potential threats. Some people may even be able to scare off a higher level opponent by putting up a frenzied fight during the initial phase of the engagement. It should be a lot of fun for those who like to roam PvP enabled world space solo or with a small group!

    Greifers may not like the system, but it should be great for just about everyone else.

    Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
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  • VaultarVaultar adelaidePosts: 339Member

    Originally posted by aesperus

    Originally posted by DarkPony


    Originally posted by Tardcore



    Though I agree with these points, my major worry is that with all the healing abilities and the downstate, that PVP will feel less like a battle with winners and loosers, and more like an endless and pointless slugfest. Similar to how high level PVP lakes or BGs felt in Warhammer Online.

    Yeah, that's another valid point. The vids I saw so far were all very zergy already it seemed. Zerg + lack of death penalty = frequent, insignificant deaths. This I really didn't like about WAR. Eventually I just didn't care about dying anymore and kept throwing myself into the fray. Rinse and repeat.

    The only hopeful aspect in this case would be heavy repair bills + long corpse runs to make it somewhat more exciting and adding incentive to "not die".

    There's this finisher move you can use on downed people in pvp though, so that will help battles to go towards an outcome.

    I'm  not sure whether there are ranged finishers too however: jumping down a parapet just to impale someone in downed state isn't so realistic.

    It will get very zergy, no doubt about it. However, that's kinda the point of large keep-oriented combat. You can't duel a keep.

    As for the worry of 'over-healing' I think that's a bit of a stretch. Heals are VERY limited in this game. The AoE heals are limited to a fairly small area (even the larger skills like rain are still limited, and don't heal all that much), so unless you have 10+ water elementalists stacking AoEs on the same area, there's not much to worry about. And, even if you DO somehow face 10+ water elementalists stacking AoE heals in the same area, guess what they are NOT doing? Attacking the objectives!. Simply knock their dumbasses down and murder them.

    Keep in mind that in order for aoe heals to be anywhere near effective in this game, you need a TON of people all dedicated to doing it. Couple that with the siege weapons available, as well as AoE knockdowns / stuns / etc. at your disposal, and you'd be lucky to face an opponent foolish enough to try that as a valid tactic. If I faced a team like that I would lmao well shelling them with cannon fire, or a meteor shower / static field combo.


     

    Yep. What he said. +1

    Looking forward to EQL and EQN.

  • sidhaethesidhaethe Corona, CAPosts: 861Member



    Originally posted by Pivotelite
















    Originally posted by EricDanie






















    Originally posted by mbeach90266















    Anonymity in PvP is a big let down





        I want to earn a name for myself, I want to be able to hunt down someone who's earned a name for themselves, I want to be able to exact revenge upon someone who got the kill on me.













    None of that can happen if you can't see someone's name.





    I don't like the anonymity factor either, but I guess the reputation will go for Guild tags.





    It seems player reputation will be exclusive to structured PvP.





    I think they really need to add in guild tags in the form of an image that are viewable in game, I would love to get to know what guilds do what and who to look out for.





    TERA may be a completely different niche than GW2 but they have it so a little image you can upload for your guild appears beside your name, just in the BETA guilds have already earned huge reputations, made rivals and made friends because the image is so distinguishable. It's a really great feature the game has in my opinion and it creates a bigger sense of community, something all MMOS are lacking these days.





    That being said I am pretty interested in how WvW plays out and look forward to playing it with my guild.










     







     

    Guild emblems are in Guild Wars 2, which is essentially the kind of thing you are talking about. You will be able to "fly your colors" over conquered keeps and wear the emblem on shields and other equipment. With that level of visibility, all you'll need is the tag next to your name to associate it with the huge flag flying over the keep the guilds are defending to make the connection.



     

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  • RizelStarRizelStar Raleigh, NCPosts: 2,773Member

    Originally posted by Jetrpg

    Originally posted by DarkPony

    Over population is the biggest threat I guess, because WvW is by far the biggest appeal to GW2 in the pvp department. If I have to wait an hour before getting into WvW on my own server I'd be really frustrated. Really curious about what the player cap will be and how soon it will be reached on an average server.

    100% agree, this is the downfall of GW2 pvp, in the name of keeping it "playable" If anyoen one thing will be a massive detractor from thegame its that its not open world pvp.

    Another potential downside is the ability to buy Influence for gold and buy appealing guild boosts with that. This might give bigger and richer guilds another edge over members of smaller or poorer guilds.

     What? You mean bigger guilds can do more, the horror. Is that really a critical comment or you complaining about math. Hey guys big guilds will have avantages , you don't say. Who would'a thunk it.

     

    I'll add one of my own.

    The class system is shit. It 100% undeiniable. People atm might think nahh its not that bad... believe me you'll see that it is after a month or two.

    It easy to understand why tho. Lack of diversity. Which seems odd seeing as every classes is massivly diverse, with the ability to fullfill any role or the lack there of roles. In this way there is no real diversity between classes in function, just play (which is at least nice).

    They should have just taken another page from old mmos and made highly diverse and specializable classes/characters. (So that there is a reason to work together for greater outcome, there is replay value, and from one toon to the next the game experinces differs largely).


     

    Da hell? lol

     

    I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.

    I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.

    P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)

    Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.

  • GreenieGreenie Orange Park, FLPosts: 553Member

    I gotta say the part about the unknown encounter in pvp / world vs. world is spot on. One of the things that made DaoC great was that roaming pvp, searching for groups, stragglers,, flanking the zerg and surprise hits. Brings about a rush every other mmo has failed to capture with their crappy scenarios and battlegrounds.

     

     

  • someforumguysomeforumguy HomePosts: 3,540Member Uncommon

    Keep in mind that you are you fighting certain servers for 2 weeks. After that you are put against servers closer to your server ranking. So if you are afraid that you keep getting overpowered by that same server, they are put against better servers next dual week, and your server against lower ranking server. So every 2 weeks new opponents (unless you are part of top/bottom 3 servers of course :p ).

    As for balance. Balance will be sought after mainly for the 5vs5 structured PVP. That is the 'e-sports'. WvWvW is obviously unbalanced (in numbers) because you never know how many enemies you will encounter. But classes will still be balanced because of structured PVP. WvWvW is mainly a fun gank/zerg fest. It is your Spartaaaaa! moment :p Good luck to any guild trying to structure that chaos lol.

  • ComafComaf Chicago, ILPosts: 1,154Member Common

    3.) The Three Faction System.

     

    I just wish the developers could budge a bit more creativity and make it so you can actually fight races and classes that are different from yours.  Three factions in daoc was awesome, they also had 44 classes and 24 races. 

     

    This wil lbe your Sylvari, Humn, Norn, etc vs their SYlvari, Human, Norn.  That's so darn bland.  But meh, this is as good as it gets these days.

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  • ropeniceropenice Lake Worth, FLPosts: 587Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by someforumguy

    Keep in mind that you are you fighting certain servers for 2 weeks. After that you are put against servers closer to your server ranking. So if you are afraid that you keep getting overpowered by that same server, they are put against better servers next dual week, and your server against lower ranking server. So every 2 weeks new opponents (unless you are part of top/bottom 3 servers of course :p ).

    As for balance. Balance will be sought after mainly for the 5vs5 structured PVP. That is the 'e-sports'. WvWvW is obviously unbalanced (in numbers) because you never know how many enemies you will encounter. But classes will still be balanced because of structured PVP. WvWvW is mainly a fun gank/zerg fest. It is your Spartaaaaa! moment :p Good luck to any guild trying to structure that chaos lol.

    The pvp guilds will find ways to organize things and have the guilds/groups assigned certain tasks/areas, while random people that jump in will run random and gank/attack whomever or join up to help the guilds. It will get structured to some degree. One guild in chareg of supply, one defending keep, one attacking other keeps/objective, one doing DE's/PvE to ehlp (like the Ogre npc's recruiting thing i read about), etc. They will communicate and get it somewhat organized.

  • DarkPonyDarkPony RotterdamPosts: 5,566Member

    Originally posted by Jetrpg

    *snip

    Another potential downside is the ability to buy Influence for gold and buy appealing guild boosts with that. This might give bigger and richer guilds another edge over members of smaller or poorer guilds.

     What? You mean bigger guilds can do more, the horror. Is that really a critical comment or you complaining about math. Hey guys big guilds will have avantages , you don't say. Who would'a thunk it.

    *snap*

     

    Nah, don't mean that; of course larger guilds will have advantages: sheer numbers, organization and more supplies trickling in for their keeps. That's all fine and like it should be. But I was talking about the extra advantage they get by buying influence directly with gold (which can also be generated through selling Gems you got in the cash shop), and getting all the best guild boosts up.

  • oubersoubers bazelPosts: 876Member Common

    yeah yeah....gold wars 2 will do fine.....i turned away when the shops came.

     

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  • IAmMMOIAmMMO LondonPosts: 1,333Member Uncommon

    Auto attack auto target is not interesting, still as dull as the PVP you found in other RPG MMO's of the past.  Planetside 2 for me over this dull auto tab target PVP.


     

  • heartlessheartless Brooklyn, NYPosts: 4,993Member

    Originally posted by DarkPony



    Originally posted by Jetrpg






    *snip



    Another potential downside is the ability to buy Influence for gold and buy appealing guild boosts with that. This might give bigger and richer guilds another edge over members of smaller or poorer guilds.





     What? You mean bigger guilds can do more, the horror. Is that really a critical comment or you complaining about math. Hey guys big guilds will have avantages , you don't say. Who would'a thunk it.



    *snap*





     

    Nah, don't mean that; of course larger guilds will have advantages: sheer numbers, organization and more supplies trickling in for their keeps. That's all fine and like it should be. But I was talking about the extra advantage they get by buying influence directly with gold (which can also be generated through selling Gems you got in the cash shop), and getting all the best guild boosts up.

    The simple fact is that big guilds don't have to purchase influence. They get enough of it just by playing the game. Everything you and your guildmates do in the game adds influence so the more active members you have, the more influence you get.

    Watch this video and you'll see just how much influence you get. You contribute aproximately 21 influence for each completed event. You contribute about 2.1 influence for each solo task and apparently 110 influence for winning a PvP match. Although I think that the guild in the video had +10% influence in PvP buffs running, so the unbuffed number is actually less. But it doesn't even matter because if you have 10 members doing events, you get ~210 influence per event. Most of the temporary bonuses, including the WvWvW ones, cost about 200 influence each. So just 10 members just playing the game and completing 1 event each buys you 1 temporary guild buff. Now what if a guild had 50 or 100 members?

    The purchase of influence via gold is more useful for smaller guilds who do not have enough members to accumulate influence at a fast rate.

    And who cares, really? A month or so down the line, almost all major guilds will have all of the most important influence bonuses anyway. So what if one of them gets a head start?

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  • AdalwulffAdalwulff Sacramento, CAPosts: 1,152Member

    Originally posted by oubers

    yeah yeah....gold wars 2 will do fine.....i turned away when the shops came.

     




     

     

    You may as well give up on MMOs then, because you cannot get one without a sub or a CS. Even the F2P games have CS's.

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  • AdalwulffAdalwulff Sacramento, CAPosts: 1,152Member

    Originally posted by DarkPony



    Originally posted by Jetrpg




    *snip

    Another potential downside is the ability to buy Influence for gold and buy appealing guild boosts with that. This might give bigger and richer guilds another edge over members of smaller or poorer guilds.





     What? You mean bigger guilds can do more, the horror. Is that really a critical comment or you complaining about math. Hey guys big guilds will have avantages , you don't say. Who would'a thunk it.



    *snap*




     

    Nah, don't mean that; of course larger guilds will have advantages: sheer numbers, organization and more supplies trickling in for their keeps. That's all fine and like it should be. But I was talking about the extra advantage they get by buying influence directly with gold (which can also be generated through selling Gems you got in the cash shop), and getting all the best guild boosts up.




     

     

    Which adds up to exactly nothing....

    Any advantage said guild had, will be lost withing days, and doesnt even hurt the other guilds, because your not fighting them, your fighting the other servers.

    Seriously, why would you be upset becasue a guild on your server got top level before yours did? Makes no difference at all, even in PvE....lol

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  • karmathkarmath Posts: 829Member Uncommon

    Zerg vs Zerg vs Zerg.

    Pass.

  • AdalwulffAdalwulff Sacramento, CAPosts: 1,152Member

    Originally posted by ropenice

    Originally posted by someforumguy

    Keep in mind that you are you fighting certain servers for 2 weeks. After that you are put against servers closer to your server ranking. So if you are afraid that you keep getting overpowered by that same server, they are put against better servers next dual week, and your server against lower ranking server. So every 2 weeks new opponents (unless you are part of top/bottom 3 servers of course :p ).

    As for balance. Balance will be sought after mainly for the 5vs5 structured PVP. That is the 'e-sports'. WvWvW is obviously unbalanced (in numbers) because you never know how many enemies you will encounter. But classes will still be balanced because of structured PVP. WvWvW is mainly a fun gank/zerg fest. It is your Spartaaaaa! moment :p Good luck to any guild trying to structure that chaos lol.

    The pvp guilds will find ways to organize things and have the guilds/groups assigned certain tasks/areas, while random people that jump in will run random and gank/attack whomever or join up to help the guilds. It will get structured to some degree. One guild in chareg of supply, one defending keep, one attacking other keeps/objective, one doing DE's/PvE to ehlp (like the Ogre npc's recruiting thing i read about), etc. They will communicate and get it somewhat organized.


     

     

    Thats exactly how we did it in DAOC, and we would switch it up during the day so people wouldnt get bored.

    I always prefered covering choke points and setting up ambushes.   :)

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  • Eir_SEir_S Argyle, NYPosts: 4,623Member

    Originally posted by karmath

    Zerg vs Zerg vs Zerg.

    Pass.

    Not likely.  People are different, and have different goals and strategies.  My friends and I plan on avoiding big groups to earn glory and have fun on smaller objectives.  All players on the server are not necessarily going to stick together.  In fact, from most opinions I've read, everyone's got their own plan in mind.

  • karmathkarmath Posts: 829Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Eir_S

    Originally posted by karmath

    Zerg vs Zerg vs Zerg.

    Pass.

    Not likely.  People are different, and have different goals and strategies.  My friends and I plan on avoiding big groups to earn glory and have fun on smaller objectives.  All players on the server are not necessarily going to stick together.  In fact, from most opinions I've read, everyone's got their own plan in mind.

    So did everyone before and during WAR, my alliance tried to keep it quiet when we were going to go for a fort but it ended up a massive zerg lagfest pretty quickly regardless.

  • AdalwulffAdalwulff Sacramento, CAPosts: 1,152Member

    Originally posted by karmath

    Originally posted by Eir_S

    Originally posted by karmath

    Zerg vs Zerg vs Zerg.

    Pass.

    Not likely.  People are different, and have different goals and strategies.  My friends and I plan on avoiding big groups to earn glory and have fun on smaller objectives.  All players on the server are not necessarily going to stick together.  In fact, from most opinions I've read, everyone's got their own plan in mind.

    So did everyone before and during WAR, my alliance tried to keep it quiet when we were going to go for a fort but it ended up a massive zerg lagfest pretty quickly regardless.


     

     

    Thats because WAR blew it, the PvP mechanics were so messed up, there were few strategies to use in WAR becuase of it, you were stuck doing one or two things.

    In DAOC smaller groups did do well. Since GW2 is built on the same system, and it has many small objectives specifically for smaller guilds/groups, they should do even better.

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  • ZodanZodan TamperePosts: 564Member

    And that's why there is three sides in the fight. It's going to be awesome!

  • LaztorWLaztorW Falls Church, VAPosts: 3Member

    Please take this guy off PvP articles; it's clearly not his thing.

  • LaztorWLaztorW Falls Church, VAPosts: 3Member

    Originally posted by DarkPony



    Originally posted by Jetrpg






    *snip



    Another potential downside is the ability to buy Influence for gold and buy appealing guild boosts with that. This might give bigger and richer guilds another edge over members of smaller or poorer guilds.





     What? You mean bigger guilds can do more, the horror. Is that really a critical comment or you complaining about math. Hey guys big guilds will have avantages , you don't say. Who would'a thunk it.



    *snap*





     

    Nah, don't mean that; of course larger guilds will have advantages: sheer numbers, organization and more supplies trickling in for their keeps. That's all fine and like it should be. But I was talking about the extra advantage they get by buying influence directly with gold (which can also be generated through selling Gems you got in the cash shop), and getting all the best guild boosts up.




     

    Not to be a giant fanboy (I will admit to it to some degree), but gold selling is prevalent in damn near every game whether it is sanctioned by the devs or not. From a business perspective, why not cash in on something third parties are reaping from your product? 

    I will agree that I don't see the point of selling influence for gold, could you point to the supporting link?

  • LaztorWLaztorW Falls Church, VAPosts: 3Member

    Nevermind, I see it's in the official wiki. I guess it's a gold sync, but imo you're right and gold being used to buy influence should be axed.

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