That people makes such a big thing out of this is just laughable, why not go start a whiteknight riot for something real instead such as people dying in masses or nasty fucking corruption in the world. People only play by the rules to the extent that they don't get caught or feel bad about it after, the limit of 'feels bad' is up to everyone to set for themselves I just can't stand people with such a rainbows and sugar view of the world. It disgusts me.
I had been trying to keep out of this thread, but this paragraph really did wind me up. What i got from this was that if he fealt it was ok within his own moral measure to call for people to drive someone to suicide, then that was perfectly ok and anyone that is outraged by that is their own problem just because their own moral measure is set a little higher?!? Then to top it all off, we shouldn't be discussing it anymore because he said he was sorry, so let's just sweep it under the carpet now and forget all about it?
So if he had called for the persecution of christians, muslims, catholics, black, white or asian peoples rather than just to drive a single person over the edge, that would have been perfectly ok because his own morals allowed that and as long as he said sorry afterwards, that will be fine?
Now, if this hadn't blown up in the way that it did, do you think for one minute that he would have apologised?
As for seeing the world as all rainbows and kittens, i don't think you will find many, if any under that illusion in this day and age, but does it mean that because people are dying in Syria every day at the moment we should ignore a lesser bad action? Because people are dying from hunger or being killed by their own government i should just let the lower end of my moral measure slide up a little and ignore the 'lesser' stuff?
The first thing that occurred to me when i first read about this situation was what disturbed me the most in all of this and that was, if this guy was more than willing to call for the harrassment to the point of suicide of a player in a public forum in front of thousands, what the hell goes on behind the closed doors of the game and corporation chat? That scared the crap outta me!
It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.
That people makes such a big thing out of this is just laughable, why not go start a whiteknight riot for something real instead such as people dying in masses or nasty fucking corruption in the world. People only play by the rules to the extent that they don't get caught or feel bad about it after, the limit of 'feels bad' is up to everyone to set for themselves I just can't stand people with such a rainbows and sugar view of the world. It disgusts me.
I had been trying to keep out of this thread, but this paragraph really did wind me up. What i got from this was that if he fealt it was ok within his own moral measure to call for people to drive someone to suicide, then that was perfectly ok and anyone that is outraged by that is their own problem just because their own moral measure is set a little higher?!? Then to top it all off, we shouldn't be discussing it anymore because he said he was sorry, so let's just sweep it under the carpet now and forget all about it?
So if he had called for the persecution of christians, muslims, catholics, black, white or asian peoples rather than just to drive a single person over the edge, that would have been perfectly ok because his own morals allowed that and as long as he said sorry afterwards, that will be fine?
Now, if this hadn't blown up in the way that it did, do you think for one minute that he would have apologised?
As for seeing the world as all rainbows and kittens, i don't think you will find many, if any under that illusion in this day and age, but does it mean that because people are dying in Syria every day at the moment we should ignore a lesser bad action? Because people are dying from hunger or being killed by their own government i should just let the lower end of my moral measure slide up a little and ignore the 'lesser' stuff?
The first thing that occurred to me when i first read about this situation was what disturbed me the most in all of this and that was, if this guy was more than willing to call for the harrassment to the point of suicide of a player in a public forum in front of thousands, what the hell goes on behind the closed doors of the game and corporation chat? That scared the crap outta me!
I don't know how you managed to warp my text into that honestly.
Also what happens in their private chatroom is up to them, you really thing THAT is a problem? Have you even thought for a second about how much shit is said that actually matters that is completely fucked up around us which noone gives a shit about? If Mittani is saying to his goons how fucking mentally challenged I am in his private chat why would I care at all about that? Also do we actually have to go back to the Mittani part of this topic once again? If you feel like discussing that then just read everything that has been posted so far so we don't have to post everything once again, it's pointless.
I know how you managed to warp my text into that honestly.
Also what happens in their private chatroom is up to them, you really thing THAT is a problem? Have you even thought for a second about how much shit is said that actually matters that is completely fucked up around us which noone gives a shit about? If Mittani is saying to his goons how fucking mentally challenged I am in his private chat why would I care at all about that? Also do we actually have to go back to the Mittani part of this topic once again? If you feel like discussing that then just read everything that has been posted so far so we don't have to post everything once again, it's pointless.
I didn't 'warp' anything you said, that is how i read what you wrote and if you feel that i have mis-represented your view then feel free to contradict anything i wrote, but personally it seemed loud and clear to me.
Do they have a right to chat in private amongst themselves, well of course they do and i am sure that the vast majority of their chat is about how their holidays went, what time the next mining op is planned for and what time they have to leave for supper, to all intents and purposes harmless. Now as for harmful conversation as a whole, again you are right that it goes on all around us 24/7 and again there is little or nothing you can do about it, people have a right to an opinion no matter how right or wrong i may personally feel it is.
I don't think we should stamp on the personal freedom of speech, but there is a huge difference between pushing a personal or political agenda and actually telling people to harrass someone to death, an act that can carry a prison sentence in my country!
It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.
omg get over it, it is not like he told people his personal information, as a former member of GSF, all I have to say you all are pretty clueless about this game and carebears.
When you have nothing to contribute, it's always best to attack the person?
Have you ever played EvE? Do you know anything about the Goons? I would bet all my plex that the goons are laughing about this in mumble right now, it does not bother them one bit nor should it bother you.
Having played EVE for more than five (going on six) years, I know a bit about the Goons, and their antics. But this is pretty low, even for them. Given the nature of the internet, and depression, if this person was really having those thoughts, the last thing they need is this type of Goon attention. Given that the CSM is supposed to represent the players to CCP, its hardly surprising that CCP would get annoyed at the bad PR this type of stunt would bring down on them.
I think this horse is dead.. you can keep beating it if you want but it is dead.
No kidding, I'm done here everyone is just trying to make this into more drama than it is and saying that everyone who thinks this isn't cyberbullying is simply sociopaths.
Stop trying to downplay it, make excuses for it, and spin it and people will stop having explain to you why you're completely wrong.
It's not even mittens who's the problem at this point, he apologized - it's people like you that don't get why what he did was so messed up that is the problem.
It's a video game and what he did over this video game is undefendable, but there you are with your excuses and nonsense.
Excuses? I'm the problem? Nope my good friend, I'm able to see why people think this is wrong but I dont agree in everything they say, it's blown way out of proportion. What Mittani did was bad but he apologized and everyone else except for all shiny internet whiteknights can accept that. Why should I accept someones opinion without having the right to my own?
Also mind you this was done IRL, the videogame had pretty much nothing to do with it actually. It was bad but people here are making it out to be waaaaaay worse due to the game for some reason.
That people makes such a big thing out of this is just laughable, why not go start a whiteknight riot for something real instead such as people dying in masses or nasty fucking corruption in the world. People only play by the rules to the extent that they don't get caught or feel bad about it after, the limit of 'feels bad' is up to everyone to set for themselves I just can't stand people with such a rainbows and sugar view of the world. It disgusts me.
If you really thought that you wouldn't be making lame justifications for his poor behavior, such as he was drunk, and if you knew what depression was and just how dangerous pushing somebody that has expressed suicidal thoughts can be, you wouldn't suggest that it's blown out of proportion - especially considering his behavior was over a silly little video game...
Your ignorance is the main problem here and our attempts to educate you as to what there's no justification for what he did and your failure to grasp the ramifications of why even trying to push a potencially suicidal person over the edge makes our reactions correct in proportion. What he did was very stupid and you're knighting on his behalf means that we keep having to explain things to you.
Also, wtf are you going on about here?
"Lectroids? Planet 10? Nuclear extortion? A girl named "John"?
My country is stupid? Hey who am i to argue, it has it's fair share but in the defence of people being tormented by verbal, psychological or physical violence i will support it wholeheartedly.
Words are words, you are 100% correct and in and amonst themselves offer no threat to home and hearth, but words that carry an agenda, words that carry hatred, words that carry a message to cause harm or a twisted ideal are what cause all the major ills in the world that you were trumpeting so much about on earlier posts and thousands of years of history attest to that. One person using well crafted words to carry their own agenda to even a small group of people can go on to create harm on a huge scale, just one person's words and ideals picked up by just a couple of people of the same mind and spread exponentially and mixed with a little fear can lead to a group, a movement or even a whole country moving as one in support of that one mans words! Thankfully the opposite is also true and we have seen that many times as well, but the very nature of humans is to fear and follow.
Do i feel what happened here is anywhere near that scale, well of course i don't, but you cannot dismiss it as a 'nothing' incident. This guy didn't just call for people to tease him, harrass him or just destroy his ships, he called for him to be harrassed to the point of killing himself and i am sorry if that doesn't tip your moral scale, but it is just plain wrong.
PS: Just a quick search and in Florida what he did could be classed as a First degree misdemeanor or even a third degree felony carrying between 1 year in jail to 5 years in prison and maximum fines between $1,000-$5,000 (i of course stand to be corrected on that, it was just a quick google search) which is far higher than the 6 months over here.
It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.
omg get over it, it is not like he told people his personal information, as a former member of GSF, all I have to say you all are pretty clueless about this game and carebears.
When you have nothing to contribute, it's always best to attack the person?
Have you ever played EvE? Do you know anything about the Goons? I would bet all my plex that the goons are laughing about this in mumble right now, it does not bother them one bit nor should it bother you.
Having played EVE for more than five (going on six) years, I know a bit about the Goons, and their antics. But this is pretty low, even for them. Given the nature of the internet, and depression, if this person was really having those thoughts, the last thing they need is this type of Goon attention. Given that the CSM is supposed to represent the players to CCP, its hardly surprising that CCP would get annoyed at the bad PR this type of stunt would bring down on them.
It is low even for goons but he's right that they're hysterically laughing at this situation as we speak. All these moral outrage posts are doing exactly what they wanted, "moar tears".
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own. -- Herman Melville
am i the only person here to thinks its a tad sad that someone actually got sad enough in a video game to want to kill him self in real life. Truthfully this should be a message that if someone actually does say that perhaps they should be temp banned from the video game and be sent to a therapist seeing as its just suppose to be a game...come on just a video games sense when did words start hurting people soooo bad. Trolls are everywhere but the gaming universe is exactly that dont let your insecuritys with ur abilitys enter the game or maybe u should just focus on real life? ..sad story for both partys
The man attempted to get people to harass a person whom he had good reason to believe was suicidal. Perhaps it wasn't tecnically full-fledged cyber bullying, but honestly that's completely irrelevant. His actions were inexcusable and reprehensible to anyone who isn't a complete sociopath, and I honestly think he got off with a slap on the wrist (more than I expected from CCP TBH).
Personally I think it's just as disgusting that anyone would jump to defend him, especially on something so insubstantial as to whether or not 'cyber bullying' was technically the correct term to use (arguable either way), or that one article on the subject got some very minor details wrong.
He is truly a sick human being and got exactly what he deserved. I have known a few people like him in my life...it did not end well for them.
omg get over it, it is not like he told people his personal information, as a former member of GSF, all I have to say you all are pretty clueless about this game and carebears.
When you have nothing to contribute, it's always best to attack the person?
Have you ever played EvE? Do you know anything about the Goons? I would bet all my plex that the goons are laughing about this in mumble right now, it does not bother them one bit nor should it bother you.
Having played EVE for more than five (going on six) years, I know a bit about the Goons, and their antics. But this is pretty low, even for them. Given the nature of the internet, and depression, if this person was really having those thoughts, the last thing they need is this type of Goon attention. Given that the CSM is supposed to represent the players to CCP, its hardly surprising that CCP would get annoyed at the bad PR this type of stunt would bring down on them.
It is low even for goons but he's right that they're hysterically laughing at this situation as we speak. All these moral outrage posts are doing exactly what they wanted, "moar tears".
I thought Alexander Gianturco didn't want his name associated with cyber bullying but you say all his people do, that does not sound right?
I think this horse is dead.. you can keep beating it if you want but it is dead.
No kidding, I'm done here everyone is just trying to make this into more drama than it is and saying that everyone who thinks this isn't cyberbullying is simply sociopaths.
Stop trying to downplay it, make excuses for it, and spin it and people will stop having explain to you why you're completely wrong.
It's not even mittens who's the problem at this point, he apologized - it's people like you that don't get why what he did was so messed up that is the problem.
It's a video game and what he did over this video game is undefendable, but there you are with your excuses and nonsense.
Excuses? I'm the problem? Nope my good friend, I'm able to see why people think this is wrong but I dont agree in everything they say, it's blown way out of proportion. What Mittani did was bad but he apologized and everyone else except for all shiny internet whiteknights can accept that. Why should I accept someones opinion without having the right to my own?
Also mind you this was done IRL, the videogame had pretty much nothing to do with it actually. It was bad but people here are making it out to be waaaaaay worse due to the game for some reason.
That people makes such a big thing out of this is just laughable, why not go start a whiteknight riot for something real instead such as people dying in masses or nasty fucking corruption in the world. People only play by the rules to the extent that they don't get caught or feel bad about it after, the limit of 'feels bad' is up to everyone to set for themselves I just can't stand people with such a rainbows and sugar view of the world. It disgusts me.
If you really thought that you wouldn't be making lame justifications for his poor behavior, such as he was drunk, and if you knew what depression was and just how dangerous pushing somebody that has expressed suicidal thoughts can be, you wouldn't suggest that it's blown out of proportion - especially considering his behavior was over a silly little video game...
Your ignorance is the main problem here and our attempts to educate you as to what there's no justification for what he did and your failure to grasp the ramifications of why even trying to push a potencially suicidal person over the edge makes our reactions correct in proportion. What he did was very stupid and you're knighting on his behalf means that we keep having to explain things to you.
Also, wtf are you going on about here?
I'm not ignorant and don't wish to be 'educated' so you can spare me that, I know full well about what this is but I might just have a different view of the world than you do and that is not something you will be able to change. Also you are obviously not reading what I'm saying, what Mittani did was wrong and bad but people are blowing it out of proportion, another time in EVE a player actually killed himself but noone seemed to care about it back then I wonder why... MAYBE because there was nothing to benefit from throwing dirt.
About the 'here' part I'm simply trying to explain I'm tired of people who thinks THIS is so horrible when so much other shit goes on around us, the majority of the people throwing shit in this case doesn't actually care one bit they either doesn't know better or simply wish to see the drama unfold. I hate such false people and/or ignorant people. Also I mean that in general people only play by the rules because they have to in order to not look like shit, but people have a lot of nasty thoughts I'm fairly positive, myself I can say my thoughts are not the nicest about others either and I really do dispise some people but that doesn't mean i tell them I do. Does that make it any more clear? How I see the world might not be roses and butterflies exactly but I do think it's more realistic to think people are selfish and hateful in general and that goes for both the ones that utter their hate as well as the ones keeping their mask on.
omg get over it, it is not like he told people his personal information, as a former member of GSF, all I have to say you all are pretty clueless about this game and carebears.
When you have nothing to contribute, it's always best to attack the person?
Have you ever played EvE? Do you know anything about the Goons? I would bet all my plex that the goons are laughing about this in mumble right now, it does not bother them one bit nor should it bother you.
Having played EVE for more than five (going on six) years, I know a bit about the Goons, and their antics. But this is pretty low, even for them. Given the nature of the internet, and depression, if this person was really having those thoughts, the last thing they need is this type of Goon attention. Given that the CSM is supposed to represent the players to CCP, its hardly surprising that CCP would get annoyed at the bad PR this type of stunt would bring down on them.
It is low even for goons but he's right that they're hysterically laughing at this situation as we speak. All these moral outrage posts are doing exactly what they wanted, "moar tears".
I thought Alexander Gianturco didn't want his name associated with cyber bullying but you say all his people do, that does not sound right?
His people also refer to him as the "King of Space" and produce caricatures of him in communist garb...
I think this horse is dead.. you can keep beating it if you want but it is dead.
No kidding, I'm done here everyone is just trying to make this into more drama than it is and saying that everyone who thinks this isn't cyberbullying is simply sociopaths.
Stop trying to downplay it, make excuses for it, and spin it and people will stop having explain to you why you're completely wrong.
It's not even mittens who's the problem at this point, he apologized - it's people like you that don't get why what he did was so messed up that is the problem.
It's a video game and what he did over this video game is undefendable, but there you are with your excuses and nonsense.
Excuses? I'm the problem? Nope my good friend, I'm able to see why people think this is wrong but I dont agree in everything they say, it's blown way out of proportion. What Mittani did was bad but he apologized and everyone else except for all shiny internet whiteknights can accept that. Why should I accept someones opinion without having the right to my own?
Also mind you this was done IRL, the videogame had pretty much nothing to do with it actually. It was bad but people here are making it out to be waaaaaay worse due to the game for some reason.
That people makes such a big thing out of this is just laughable, why not go start a whiteknight riot for something real instead such as people dying in masses or nasty fucking corruption in the world. People only play by the rules to the extent that they don't get caught or feel bad about it after, the limit of 'feels bad' is up to everyone to set for themselves I just can't stand people with such a rainbows and sugar view of the world. It disgusts me.
If you really thought that you wouldn't be making lame justifications for his poor behavior, such as he was drunk, and if you knew what depression was and just how dangerous pushing somebody that has expressed suicidal thoughts can be, you wouldn't suggest that it's blown out of proportion - especially considering his behavior was over a silly little video game...
Your ignorance is the main problem here and our attempts to educate you as to what there's no justification for what he did and your failure to grasp the ramifications of why even trying to push a potencially suicidal person over the edge makes our reactions correct in proportion. What he did was very stupid and you're knighting on his behalf means that we keep having to explain things to you.
Also, wtf are you going on about here?
I'm not ignorant and don't wish to be 'educated' so you can spare me that, I know full well about what this is but I might just have a different view of the world than you do and that is not something you will be able to change. Also you are obviously not reading what I'm saying, what Mittani did was wrong and bad but people are blowing it out of proportion, another time in EVE a player actually killed himself but noone seemed to care about it back then I wonder why... MAYBE because there was nothing to benefit from throwing dirt.
About the 'here' part I'm simply trying to explain I'm tired of people who thinks THIS is so horrible when so much other shit goes on around us, the majority of the people throwing shit in this case doesn't actually care one bit they either doesn't know better or simply wish to see the drama unfold. I hate such false people and/or ignorant people. Also I mean that in general people only play by the rules because they have to in order to not look like shit, but people have a lot of nasty thoughts I'm fairly positive, myself I can say my thoughts are not the nicest about others either and I really do dispise some people but that doesn't mean i tell them I do. Does that make it any more clear? How I see the world might not be roses and butterflies exactly but I do think it's more realistic to think people are selfish and hateful in general and that goes for both the ones that utter their hate as well as the ones keeping their mask on.
This means that youy're not getting it and you do need to be educated... and educated... and educated... and educated... and educated... Until you do get it...
Did people try to cyberbully the person by organizing group harassment of the fellow that killed himself?
Oh I see, in comparision to say, a mass murderer, he's not so bad of a fellow because he only tried to get one person to kill themselves and over a video game no less... I'm more outraged about the mass murderer, but there's not a lot of people that excuse the mass murderer's behavior - not a lot of people defend the mass murderer by saying that he only killed 5 people so it's not that big of a deal, or that the mass murderer was drunk at the time so it's okay... Or don't call him a mass murderer because legally you need to kill more than X amount of people before you can call him that... There's not a lot of that going on so I don't know what you're point is - but i can tell you that it's not a good one.
This. You are utterly alone in those sentiments since most of us love and are loved by other people and when you love and are loved like that, it doesn't cross your mind to be selfish or hateful towards others.
"Lectroids? Planet 10? Nuclear extortion? A girl named "John"?
I think this horse is dead.. you can keep beating it if you want but it is dead.
No kidding, I'm done here everyone is just trying to make this into more drama than it is and saying that everyone who thinks this isn't cyberbullying is simply sociopaths.
Stop trying to downplay it, make excuses for it, and spin it and people will stop having explain to you why you're completely wrong.
It's not even mittens who's the problem at this point, he apologized - it's people like you that don't get why what he did was so messed up that is the problem.
It's a video game and what he did over this video game is undefendable, but there you are with your excuses and nonsense.
Excuses? I'm the problem? Nope my good friend, I'm able to see why people think this is wrong but I dont agree in everything they say, it's blown way out of proportion. What Mittani did was bad but he apologized and everyone else except for all shiny internet whiteknights can accept that. Why should I accept someones opinion without having the right to my own?
Also mind you this was done IRL, the videogame had pretty much nothing to do with it actually. It was bad but people here are making it out to be waaaaaay worse due to the game for some reason.
That people makes such a big thing out of this is just laughable, why not go start a whiteknight riot for something real instead such as people dying in masses or nasty fucking corruption in the world. People only play by the rules to the extent that they don't get caught or feel bad about it after, the limit of 'feels bad' is up to everyone to set for themselves I just can't stand people with such a rainbows and sugar view of the world. It disgusts me.
If you really thought that you wouldn't be making lame justifications for his poor behavior, such as he was drunk, and if you knew what depression was and just how dangerous pushing somebody that has expressed suicidal thoughts can be, you wouldn't suggest that it's blown out of proportion - especially considering his behavior was over a silly little video game...
Your ignorance is the main problem here and our attempts to educate you as to what there's no justification for what he did and your failure to grasp the ramifications of why even trying to push a potencially suicidal person over the edge makes our reactions correct in proportion. What he did was very stupid and you're knighting on his behalf means that we keep having to explain things to you.
Also, wtf are you going on about here?
I'm not ignorant and don't wish to be 'educated' so you can spare me that, I know full well about what this is but I might just have a different view of the world than you do and that is not something you will be able to change. Also you are obviously not reading what I'm saying, what Mittani did was wrong and bad but people are blowing it out of proportion, another time in EVE a player actually killed himself but noone seemed to care about it back then I wonder why... MAYBE because there was nothing to benefit from throwing dirt.
About the 'here' part I'm simply trying to explain I'm tired of people who thinks THIS is so horrible when so much other shit goes on around us, the majority of the people throwing shit in this case doesn't actually care one bit they either doesn't know better or simply wish to see the drama unfold. I hate such false people and/or ignorant people. Also I mean that in general people only play by the rules because they have to in order to not look like shit, but people have a lot of nasty thoughts I'm fairly positive, myself I can say my thoughts are not the nicest about others either and I really do dispise some people but that doesn't mean i tell them I do. Does that make it any more clear? How I see the world might not be roses and butterflies exactly but I do think it's more realistic to think people are selfish and hateful in general and that goes for both the ones that utter their hate as well as the ones keeping their mask on.
This means that youy're not getting it and you do need to be educated... and educated... and educated... and educated... and educated... Until you do get it...
Did people try to cyberbully the person by organizing group harassment of the fellow that killed himself?
Oh I see, in comparision to say, a mass murderer, he's not so bad of a fellow because he only tried to get one person to kill themselves and over a video game no less... I'm more outraged about the mass murderer, but there's not a lot of people that excuse the mass murderer's behavior - not a lot of people defend the mass murderer by saying that he only killed 5 people so it's not that big of a deal, or that the mass murderer was drunk at the time so it's okay... Or don't call him a mass murderer because legally you need to kill more than X amount of people before you can call him that... There's not a lot of that going on so I don't know what you're point is - but i can tell you that it's not a good one.
This. You are utterly alone in those sentiments since most of us love and are loved by other people and when you love and are loved like that, it doesn't cross your mind to be selfish or hateful towards others.
Or just get over the fact that not everyone believes in your rainbows, unicorns and supersweet sugar world.
Don't remember if people were ganging up on that lad but he killed himself. This guy said he didn't expect something like this to happen but obviously didn't kill himself. Dead is dead, alive is alive.
Wow thats naive to think I'm alone in this.
I believe this has gotten as far as it will go and I will simply ignore this topic from now on, there is nothing to gain from arguing but I guess you could enjoy reading both the text Mittani wrote as well as the one that was posted on MMORPG.com today:
@Whoever reported my post: Fair nuff, i'd had a few too many at that point and the wording was poorly chosen. I still stand behind what I said. We're all different creatures and take/view everything differently based on our own life experiences. I just see a trend that is getting worse and worse. May sound far fetched but when you start to limit one type of speech you open the door to limit anything you want. That's the road we are heading down and the pessimist that I am sees nothing bright up ahead. Governing bodies never give back rights once they are taken away - they just take more.
I think this horse is dead.. you can keep beating it if you want but it is dead.
No kidding, I'm done here everyone is just trying to make this into more drama than it is and saying that everyone who thinks this isn't cyberbullying is simply sociopaths.
Stop trying to downplay it, make excuses for it, and spin it and people will stop having explain to you why you're completely wrong.
It's not even mittens who's the problem at this point, he apologized - it's people like you that don't get why what he did was so messed up that is the problem.
It's a video game and what he did over this video game is undefendable, but there you are with your excuses and nonsense.
Excuses? I'm the problem? Nope my good friend, I'm able to see why people think this is wrong but I dont agree in everything they say, it's blown way out of proportion. What Mittani did was bad but he apologized and everyone else except for all shiny internet whiteknights can accept that. Why should I accept someones opinion without having the right to my own?
Also mind you this was done IRL, the videogame had pretty much nothing to do with it actually. It was bad but people here are making it out to be waaaaaay worse due to the game for some reason.
That people makes such a big thing out of this is just laughable, why not go start a whiteknight riot for something real instead such as people dying in masses or nasty fucking corruption in the world. People only play by the rules to the extent that they don't get caught or feel bad about it after, the limit of 'feels bad' is up to everyone to set for themselves I just can't stand people with such a rainbows and sugar view of the world. It disgusts me.
If you really thought that you wouldn't be making lame justifications for his poor behavior, such as he was drunk, and if you knew what depression was and just how dangerous pushing somebody that has expressed suicidal thoughts can be, you wouldn't suggest that it's blown out of proportion - especially considering his behavior was over a silly little video game...
Your ignorance is the main problem here and our attempts to educate you as to what there's no justification for what he did and your failure to grasp the ramifications of why even trying to push a potencially suicidal person over the edge makes our reactions correct in proportion. What he did was very stupid and you're knighting on his behalf means that we keep having to explain things to you.
Also, wtf are you going on about here?
I'm not ignorant and don't wish to be 'educated' so you can spare me that, I know full well about what this is but I might just have a different view of the world than you do and that is not something you will be able to change. Also you are obviously not reading what I'm saying, what Mittani did was wrong and bad but people are blowing it out of proportion, another time in EVE a player actually killed himself but noone seemed to care about it back then I wonder why... MAYBE because there was nothing to benefit from throwing dirt.
About the 'here' part I'm simply trying to explain I'm tired of people who thinks THIS is so horrible when so much other shit goes on around us, the majority of the people throwing shit in this case doesn't actually care one bit they either doesn't know better or simply wish to see the drama unfold. I hate such false people and/or ignorant people. Also I mean that in general people only play by the rules because they have to in order to not look like shit, but people have a lot of nasty thoughts I'm fairly positive, myself I can say my thoughts are not the nicest about others either and I really do dispise some people but that doesn't mean i tell them I do. Does that make it any more clear? How I see the world might not be roses and butterflies exactly but I do think it's more realistic to think people are selfish and hateful in general and that goes for both the ones that utter their hate as well as the ones keeping their mask on.
This means that youy're not getting it and you do need to be educated... and educated... and educated... and educated... and educated... Until you do get it...
Did people try to cyberbully the person by organizing group harassment of the fellow that killed himself?
Oh I see, in comparision to say, a mass murderer, he's not so bad of a fellow because he only tried to get one person to kill themselves and over a video game no less... I'm more outraged about the mass murderer, but there's not a lot of people that excuse the mass murderer's behavior - not a lot of people defend the mass murderer by saying that he only killed 5 people so it's not that big of a deal, or that the mass murderer was drunk at the time so it's okay... Or don't call him a mass murderer because legally you need to kill more than X amount of people before you can call him that... There's not a lot of that going on so I don't know what you're point is - but i can tell you that it's not a good one.
This. You are utterly alone in those sentiments since most of us love and are loved by other people and when you love and are loved like that, it doesn't cross your mind to be selfish or hateful towards others.
Or just get over the fact that not everyone believes in your rainbows, unicorns and supersweet sugar world.
Don't remember if people were ganging up on that lad but he killed himself. This guy said he didn't expect something like this to happen but obviously didn't kill himself. Dead is dead, alive is alive.
Wow thats naive to think I'm alone in this.
I believe this has gotten as far as it will go and I will simply ignore this topic from now on, there is nothing to gain from arguing but I guess you could enjoy reading both the text Mittani wrote as well as the one that was posted on MMORPG.com today:
Also why dont you write a bit more of '...' because thats how you write a text of good quality which doesn't give people a headache to read. /sarcasm
Enjoy.
We are the majority and so long as we are the majority you're going to have to keep wearing your mask when you're in our presence... Either that or find somebody that will love you and that you can love, have a few children, get a dog, and you'll no longer be thinking those thoughts...
You're the one that keeps posting your position that what mittens did was justifiable... You're the one that keeps posting excuses for what he did... You're the one that keeps suggesting that it's not a big deal... It would seem that although mittens has distanced himself from this you're quite willing to take up the mantle that he's no longer willing to hold...
Yes dead is dead... Yes, alive is alive... Yes, telling a room full of people to harrass a person into suicide is wrong... Yes, trying to justify that action is wrong... Yes, it makes him a cyberbully... Yes, being drunk is no excuse for his poor behavior... Yes, it is as serious as all that when you consider what mittens did and understand that it's all over a silly little video game, oh, how petty a reason...
There's much to gain if you would only take the time to read what I've already written and understand what I've typed and all you need to do is scroll up as I've already discussed with you above...
You are alone. There may be quite a few more than just you around but each and every one of you is individually alone and remote from each other... Even if you share the same table with another mask wearer like you - it can't be said that you're together...
Awe, I didn't read that /sarcasm part and put all those ...'s because I thought you enjoyed them...
"Lectroids? Planet 10? Nuclear extortion? A girl named "John"?
@Whoever reported my post: Fair nuff, i'd had a few too many at that point and the wording was poorly chosen. I still stand behind what I said. We're all different creatures and take/view everything differently based on our own life experiences. I just see a trend that is getting worse and worse. May sound far fetched but when you start to limit one type of speech you open the door to limit anything you want. That's the road we are heading down and the pessimist that I am sees nothing bright up ahead. Governing bodies never give back rights once they are taken away - they just take more.
Anyway...
/me attempts to back slowly away from thread
I totally agree with you on the freedom of speech issue, everyone should be free to express opinions, beliefs or argue in favour or against other peoples views, but that does not apply here. He didn't put forward a view, he didn't express an opinion, he flat out targetted a single person and i fail to see how you can justify that in any way shape or form under freedom of speech.
It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.
It's easy Jason. I can't see it your way, you can't see it mine. We're different and on this we may never see eye to eye. Agree to disagree?
How I can see it my way is the same way that anyone else in the history of this issue sees it my way. There's plenty of arguements on both sides. I've seen them all, weighed them based on my experiences and I come out at *shrug*. Had someone stood up on a some public pulpit and said "Everyone go annoy kovah till he kills himself." I would give 0 flying you know whats. That's said persons right, well, used to be, so what. It's not said persons WORDS that cause any harm to me directly, it is someone elses reaction. Punishing the speaker because someone else reacted to it is just plain silly. Just cause someone drew some silly picutres of your prophet doesn't mean you are allowed to react violently.
Here in the US a guy called 911 and reported that he was robbed at gun point. Responding officers shot and killed one of the two suspects. Neither were armed. Dude who called 911 and WAS ACTUALLY ROBBED, was arrested for involuntary manslaughter cause he LIED. Cop shot and killed someone. Not responsible, it was the fault of the guy who lied of course. Those evil words killed that person, not the cop who pulled the trigger.
Once you start to travel down this road it ends poorly for everyone.
Originally posted by kovahIt's not said persons WORDS that cause any harm to me directly, it is someone elses reaction. Punishing the speaker because someone else reacted to it is just plain silly.
Punishing someone who ordered a murder because someone has reacted on order is also plain silly, I guess...
It's easy Jason. I can't see it your way, you can't see it mine. We're different and on this we may never see eye to eye. Agree to disagree?
How I can see it my way is the same way that anyone else in the history of this issue sees it my way. There's plenty of arguements on both sides. I've seen them all, weighed them based on my experiences and I come out at *shrug*. Had someone stood up on a some public pulpit and said "Everyone go annoy kovah till he kills himself." I would give 0 flying you know whats. That's said persons right, well, used to be, so what. It's not said persons WORDS that cause any harm to me directly, it is someone elses reaction. Punishing the speaker because someone else reacted to it is just plain silly. Just cause someone drew some silly picutres of your prophet doesn't mean you are allowed to react violently.
Here in the US a guy called 911 and reported that he was robbed at gun point. Responding officers shot and killed one of the two suspects. Neither were armed. Dude who called 911 and WAS ACTUALLY ROBBED, was arrested for involuntary manslaughter cause he LIED. Cop shot and killed someone. Not responsible, it was the fault of the guy who lied of course. Those evil words killed that person, not the cop who pulled the trigger.
Once you start to travel down this road it ends poorly for everyone.
The United States Supreme Court would disagree with you. They have clearly stated that freedom of speech is limited when it creates a clear and present danger. The example they gave was a person shouting "fire" in a crowded theatre. Nowadays that would also extend to yelling "bomb" on an airplane. You can't blame others for reacting to supposed life threatening circumstances.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own. -- Herman Melville
It's not said persons WORDS that cause any harm to me directly, it is someone elses reaction. Punishing the speaker because someone else reacted to it is just plain silly.
Punishing someone who ordered a murder because someone has reacted on order is also plain silly, I guess...
People are funny on these boards.
I totally agree with you, they are a funny bunch, I mean, if you can convince a few men to fly airplanes into buildings and murder thousands of people - you shouldn't be the one to blame - it's the ones that flew the airplanes that are to blame.
C'mon it's freedom of speech and he was drunk at the time and don't call him a terrorist because he didn't actually fly the plane and it's not that big of a deal because there's been people that have killed millions so we should all just ignore the incident and get over it, etc.
"Lectroids? Planet 10? Nuclear extortion? A girl named "John"?
It's easy Jason. I can't see it your way, you can't see it mine. We're different and on this we may never see eye to eye. Agree to disagree?
How I can see it my way is the same way that anyone else in the history of this issue sees it my way. There's plenty of arguements on both sides. I've seen them all, weighed them based on my experiences and I come out at *shrug*. Had someone stood up on a some public pulpit and said "Everyone go annoy kovah till he kills himself." I would give 0 flying you know whats. That's said persons right, well, used to be, so what. It's not said persons WORDS that cause any harm to me directly, it is someone elses reaction. Punishing the speaker because someone else reacted to it is just plain silly. Just cause someone drew some silly picutres of your prophet doesn't mean you are allowed to react violently.
Here in the US a guy called 911 and reported that he was robbed at gun point. Responding officers shot and killed one of the two suspects. Neither were armed. Dude who called 911 and WAS ACTUALLY ROBBED, was arrested for involuntary manslaughter cause he LIED. Cop shot and killed someone. Not responsible, it was the fault of the guy who lied of course. Those evil words killed that person, not the cop who pulled the trigger.
Once you start to travel down this road it ends poorly for everyone.
The United States Supreme Court would disagree with you. They have clearly stated that freedom of speech is limited when it creates a clear and present danger. The example they gave was a person shouting "fire" in a crowded theatre. Nowadays that would also extend to yelling "bomb" on an airplane. You can't blame others for reacting to supposed life threatening circumstances.
Yes, the Nine Riders of the Bench are rather fond of "discovering" or creating out of whole cloth, "exceptions" for governments actions. Or actions that the Framers of the US Constitution and Bill of Rights would have taken a VERY dim view of. But as is often the case when dealing with government, might makes "right".
As the Founders/Framers understood, rights and freedom itself are only secure as long as the general population is well educated, well informed and well armed. The first two haven't been true for generations. While the third has been seriously eroded.
But this is rather far afield. Mittens drunken nonsense, should have been treated as just that. The blatherings of someone lacking the wisdom and judgement to know their own limits. The timing and place should have resulted in them losing their position on the CSM.
Beyond that is simply appeasing of various hysterics, who are rather foggy on the distinctions between actions, and speech and individual free will. But again, that too is simply a sign of the times that we happen to live in.
But this is rather far afield. Mittens drunken nonsense, should have been treated as just that. The blatherings of someone lacking the wisdom and judgementto know their own limits. The timing and place should have resulted in them losing their position on the CSM.
Comments
I had been trying to keep out of this thread, but this paragraph really did wind me up. What i got from this was that if he fealt it was ok within his own moral measure to call for people to drive someone to suicide, then that was perfectly ok and anyone that is outraged by that is their own problem just because their own moral measure is set a little higher?!? Then to top it all off, we shouldn't be discussing it anymore because he said he was sorry, so let's just sweep it under the carpet now and forget all about it?
So if he had called for the persecution of christians, muslims, catholics, black, white or asian peoples rather than just to drive a single person over the edge, that would have been perfectly ok because his own morals allowed that and as long as he said sorry afterwards, that will be fine?
Now, if this hadn't blown up in the way that it did, do you think for one minute that he would have apologised?
As for seeing the world as all rainbows and kittens, i don't think you will find many, if any under that illusion in this day and age, but does it mean that because people are dying in Syria every day at the moment we should ignore a lesser bad action? Because people are dying from hunger or being killed by their own government i should just let the lower end of my moral measure slide up a little and ignore the 'lesser' stuff?
The first thing that occurred to me when i first read about this situation was what disturbed me the most in all of this and that was, if this guy was more than willing to call for the harrassment to the point of suicide of a player in a public forum in front of thousands, what the hell goes on behind the closed doors of the game and corporation chat? That scared the crap outta me!
It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.
I don't know how you managed to warp my text into that honestly.
Also what happens in their private chatroom is up to them, you really thing THAT is a problem? Have you even thought for a second about how much shit is said that actually matters that is completely fucked up around us which noone gives a shit about? If Mittani is saying to his goons how fucking mentally challenged I am in his private chat why would I care at all about that? Also do we actually have to go back to the Mittani part of this topic once again? If you feel like discussing that then just read everything that has been posted so far so we don't have to post everything once again, it's pointless.
I didn't 'warp' anything you said, that is how i read what you wrote and if you feel that i have mis-represented your view then feel free to contradict anything i wrote, but personally it seemed loud and clear to me.
Do they have a right to chat in private amongst themselves, well of course they do and i am sure that the vast majority of their chat is about how their holidays went, what time the next mining op is planned for and what time they have to leave for supper, to all intents and purposes harmless. Now as for harmful conversation as a whole, again you are right that it goes on all around us 24/7 and again there is little or nothing you can do about it, people have a right to an opinion no matter how right or wrong i may personally feel it is.
I don't think we should stamp on the personal freedom of speech, but there is a huge difference between pushing a personal or political agenda and actually telling people to harrass someone to death, an act that can carry a prison sentence in my country!
It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.
Having played EVE for more than five (going on six) years, I know a bit about the Goons, and their antics. But this is pretty low, even for them. Given the nature of the internet, and depression, if this person was really having those thoughts, the last thing they need is this type of Goon attention. Given that the CSM is supposed to represent the players to CCP, its hardly surprising that CCP would get annoyed at the bad PR this type of stunt would bring down on them.
Also, would like to point out that I'm not a goon and happy to see mittens gone.
k, i feel better that addendum is added.
You're probably healthy in mind and body and are probably not suffering from depression or thinking suicidal thoughts...
See, when people are of that frame of mind, it can take something as trivial as not being able to untie a knot in your shoes to send you down.
"Lectroids? Planet 10? Nuclear extortion? A girl named "John"?
If you really thought that you wouldn't be making lame justifications for his poor behavior, such as he was drunk, and if you knew what depression was and just how dangerous pushing somebody that has expressed suicidal thoughts can be, you wouldn't suggest that it's blown out of proportion - especially considering his behavior was over a silly little video game...
Your ignorance is the main problem here and our attempts to educate you as to what there's no justification for what he did and your failure to grasp the ramifications of why even trying to push a potencially suicidal person over the edge makes our reactions correct in proportion. What he did was very stupid and you're knighting on his behalf means that we keep having to explain things to you.
Also, wtf are you going on about here?
"Lectroids? Planet 10? Nuclear extortion? A girl named "John"?
My country is stupid? Hey who am i to argue, it has it's fair share but in the defence of people being tormented by verbal, psychological or physical violence i will support it wholeheartedly.
Words are words, you are 100% correct and in and amonst themselves offer no threat to home and hearth, but words that carry an agenda, words that carry hatred, words that carry a message to cause harm or a twisted ideal are what cause all the major ills in the world that you were trumpeting so much about on earlier posts and thousands of years of history attest to that. One person using well crafted words to carry their own agenda to even a small group of people can go on to create harm on a huge scale, just one person's words and ideals picked up by just a couple of people of the same mind and spread exponentially and mixed with a little fear can lead to a group, a movement or even a whole country moving as one in support of that one mans words! Thankfully the opposite is also true and we have seen that many times as well, but the very nature of humans is to fear and follow.
Do i feel what happened here is anywhere near that scale, well of course i don't, but you cannot dismiss it as a 'nothing' incident. This guy didn't just call for people to tease him, harrass him or just destroy his ships, he called for him to be harrassed to the point of killing himself and i am sorry if that doesn't tip your moral scale, but it is just plain wrong.
PS: Just a quick search and in Florida what he did could be classed as a First degree misdemeanor or even a third degree felony carrying between 1 year in jail to 5 years in prison and maximum fines between $1,000-$5,000 (i of course stand to be corrected on that, it was just a quick google search) which is far higher than the 6 months over here.
It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.
It is low even for goons but he's right that they're hysterically laughing at this situation as we speak. All these moral outrage posts are doing exactly what they wanted, "moar tears".
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.
-- Herman Melville
am i the only person here to thinks its a tad sad that someone actually got sad enough in a video game to want to kill him self in real life. Truthfully this should be a message that if someone actually does say that perhaps they should be temp banned from the video game and be sent to a therapist seeing as its just suppose to be a game...come on just a video games sense when did words start hurting people soooo bad. Trolls are everywhere but the gaming universe is exactly that dont let your insecuritys with ur abilitys enter the game or maybe u should just focus on real life? ..sad story for both partys
He is truly a sick human being and got exactly what he deserved. I have known a few people like him in my life...it did not end well for them.
When you have nothing to contribute, it's always best to attack the person?
Have you ever played EvE? Do you know anything about the Goons? I would bet all my plex that the goons are laughing about this in mumble right now, it does not bother them one bit nor should it bother you.
Having played EVE for more than five (going on six) years, I know a bit about the Goons, and their antics. But this is pretty low, even for them. Given the nature of the internet, and depression, if this person was really having those thoughts, the last thing they need is this type of Goon attention. Given that the CSM is supposed to represent the players to CCP, its hardly surprising that CCP would get annoyed at the bad PR this type of stunt would bring down on them.
It is low even for goons but he's right that they're hysterically laughing at this situation as we speak. All these moral outrage posts are doing exactly what they wanted, "moar tears".
I thought Alexander Gianturco didn't want his name associated with cyber bullying but you say all his people do, that does not sound right?I'm not ignorant and don't wish to be 'educated' so you can spare me that, I know full well about what this is but I might just have a different view of the world than you do and that is not something you will be able to change. Also you are obviously not reading what I'm saying, what Mittani did was wrong and bad but people are blowing it out of proportion, another time in EVE a player actually killed himself but noone seemed to care about it back then I wonder why... MAYBE because there was nothing to benefit from throwing dirt.
http://soundcloud.com/aryndelvyst/the-mittani-vs-brendan-drain
About the 'here' part I'm simply trying to explain I'm tired of people who thinks THIS is so horrible when so much other shit goes on around us, the majority of the people throwing shit in this case doesn't actually care one bit they either doesn't know better or simply wish to see the drama unfold. I hate such false people and/or ignorant people. Also I mean that in general people only play by the rules because they have to in order to not look like shit, but people have a lot of nasty thoughts I'm fairly positive, myself I can say my thoughts are not the nicest about others either and I really do dispise some people but that doesn't mean i tell them I do. Does that make it any more clear? How I see the world might not be roses and butterflies exactly but I do think it's more realistic to think people are selfish and hateful in general and that goes for both the ones that utter their hate as well as the ones keeping their mask on.
His people also refer to him as the "King of Space" and produce caricatures of him in communist garb...
This means that youy're not getting it and you do need to be educated... and educated... and educated... and educated... and educated... Until you do get it...
Did people try to cyberbully the person by organizing group harassment of the fellow that killed himself?
Oh I see, in comparision to say, a mass murderer, he's not so bad of a fellow because he only tried to get one person to kill themselves and over a video game no less... I'm more outraged about the mass murderer, but there's not a lot of people that excuse the mass murderer's behavior - not a lot of people defend the mass murderer by saying that he only killed 5 people so it's not that big of a deal, or that the mass murderer was drunk at the time so it's okay... Or don't call him a mass murderer because legally you need to kill more than X amount of people before you can call him that... There's not a lot of that going on so I don't know what you're point is - but i can tell you that it's not a good one.
This. You are utterly alone in those sentiments since most of us love and are loved by other people and when you love and are loved like that, it doesn't cross your mind to be selfish or hateful towards others.
"Lectroids? Planet 10? Nuclear extortion? A girl named "John"?
Or just get over the fact that not everyone believes in your rainbows, unicorns and supersweet sugar world.
Don't remember if people were ganging up on that lad but he killed himself. This guy said he didn't expect something like this to happen but obviously didn't kill himself. Dead is dead, alive is alive.
Wow thats naive to think I'm alone in this.
I believe this has gotten as far as it will go and I will simply ignore this topic from now on, there is nothing to gain from arguing but I guess you could enjoy reading both the text Mittani wrote as well as the one that was posted on MMORPG.com today:
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/14/feature/6263/The-End-of-The-Mittani-Era.html
http://www.tentonhammer.com/eve/spymaster/77
Also why dont you write a bit more of '...' because thats how you write a text of good quality which doesn't give people a headache to read. /sarcasm
Enjoy.
@Jason: Never said mine wasn't dumb.
@Whoever reported my post: Fair nuff, i'd had a few too many at that point and the wording was poorly chosen. I still stand behind what I said. We're all different creatures and take/view everything differently based on our own life experiences. I just see a trend that is getting worse and worse. May sound far fetched but when you start to limit one type of speech you open the door to limit anything you want. That's the road we are heading down and the pessimist that I am sees nothing bright up ahead. Governing bodies never give back rights once they are taken away - they just take more.
Anyway...
/me attempts to back slowly away from thread
We are the majority and so long as we are the majority you're going to have to keep wearing your mask when you're in our presence... Either that or find somebody that will love you and that you can love, have a few children, get a dog, and you'll no longer be thinking those thoughts...
You're the one that keeps posting your position that what mittens did was justifiable... You're the one that keeps posting excuses for what he did... You're the one that keeps suggesting that it's not a big deal... It would seem that although mittens has distanced himself from this you're quite willing to take up the mantle that he's no longer willing to hold...
Yes dead is dead... Yes, alive is alive... Yes, telling a room full of people to harrass a person into suicide is wrong... Yes, trying to justify that action is wrong... Yes, it makes him a cyberbully... Yes, being drunk is no excuse for his poor behavior... Yes, it is as serious as all that when you consider what mittens did and understand that it's all over a silly little video game, oh, how petty a reason...
There's much to gain if you would only take the time to read what I've already written and understand what I've typed and all you need to do is scroll up as I've already discussed with you above...
You are alone. There may be quite a few more than just you around but each and every one of you is individually alone and remote from each other... Even if you share the same table with another mask wearer like you - it can't be said that you're together...
Awe, I didn't read that /sarcasm part and put all those ...'s because I thought you enjoyed them...
"Lectroids? Planet 10? Nuclear extortion? A girl named "John"?
I totally agree with you on the freedom of speech issue, everyone should be free to express opinions, beliefs or argue in favour or against other peoples views, but that does not apply here. He didn't put forward a view, he didn't express an opinion, he flat out targetted a single person and i fail to see how you can justify that in any way shape or form under freedom of speech.
It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.
dammit. Thought I was out....
It's easy Jason. I can't see it your way, you can't see it mine. We're different and on this we may never see eye to eye. Agree to disagree?
How I can see it my way is the same way that anyone else in the history of this issue sees it my way. There's plenty of arguements on both sides. I've seen them all, weighed them based on my experiences and I come out at *shrug*. Had someone stood up on a some public pulpit and said "Everyone go annoy kovah till he kills himself." I would give 0 flying you know whats. That's said persons right, well, used to be, so what. It's not said persons WORDS that cause any harm to me directly, it is someone elses reaction. Punishing the speaker because someone else reacted to it is just plain silly. Just cause someone drew some silly picutres of your prophet doesn't mean you are allowed to react violently.
Here in the US a guy called 911 and reported that he was robbed at gun point. Responding officers shot and killed one of the two suspects. Neither were armed. Dude who called 911 and WAS ACTUALLY ROBBED, was arrested for involuntary manslaughter cause he LIED. Cop shot and killed someone. Not responsible, it was the fault of the guy who lied of course. Those evil words killed that person, not the cop who pulled the trigger.
Once you start to travel down this road it ends poorly for everyone.
Punishing someone who ordered a murder because someone has reacted on order is also plain silly, I guess...
People are funny on these boards.
The United States Supreme Court would disagree with you. They have clearly stated that freedom of speech is limited when it creates a clear and present danger. The example they gave was a person shouting "fire" in a crowded theatre. Nowadays that would also extend to yelling "bomb" on an airplane. You can't blame others for reacting to supposed life threatening circumstances.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.
-- Herman Melville
I totally agree with you, they are a funny bunch, I mean, if you can convince a few men to fly airplanes into buildings and murder thousands of people - you shouldn't be the one to blame - it's the ones that flew the airplanes that are to blame.
C'mon it's freedom of speech and he was drunk at the time and don't call him a terrorist because he didn't actually fly the plane and it's not that big of a deal because there's been people that have killed millions so we should all just ignore the incident and get over it, etc.
"Lectroids? Planet 10? Nuclear extortion? A girl named "John"?
Yes, the Nine Riders of the Bench are rather fond of "discovering" or creating out of whole cloth, "exceptions" for governments actions. Or actions that the Framers of the US Constitution and Bill of Rights would have taken a VERY dim view of. But as is often the case when dealing with government, might makes "right".
As the Founders/Framers understood, rights and freedom itself are only secure as long as the general population is well educated, well informed and well armed. The first two haven't been true for generations. While the third has been seriously eroded.
But this is rather far afield. Mittens drunken nonsense, should have been treated as just that. The blatherings of someone lacking the wisdom and judgement to know their own limits. The timing and place should have resulted in them losing their position on the CSM.
Beyond that is simply appeasing of various hysterics, who are rather foggy on the distinctions between actions, and speech and individual free will. But again, that too is simply a sign of the times that we happen to live in.
This can be argued about sober Mittani too :P