Regarding GW2, Mike O'Brien, the founder of the company
Btw founder: O'Brian is 1 out of 3 founders. The other 2 founders went to work at NCwest to control the production of GW2, ArenaNet was almost independent at that time. Not even a year later both left the company under mysterious circustances. Jeff Strain, who was the visionary and is generally awesome, took like a dozen employees with him and started a new company, Undead Labs. With a different publisher. 2nd guy left 1 month later and now works on TERA (!). The old PR guy quit at the same time. NCwest was hit by layoffs, and control has been back with NCsoft ever since.
So, yeah... ArenaNet can promise all sorts of things, but the publisher gets to call the shots in the end. Especially when NCsoft owns ArenaNet. Just saying.
NCsoft has not been the best company, but from what I have seen, they left ArenaNet alone during GW1's days. That's impossible to say for sure, because none of us work there, or know the internal interplay between them.
But if you look at fiscals from GW1 to lets say 2010 - It's easy to see that in EU/US and most places outside of Korea/China/Japan, (Brazil, India, Taiwan, Phillippines, and several others...) Guild Wars was a steady money stream.
NCsoft lost A LOT. A lot. Even before the recession, on failures like Auto Assault and Tabula Rasa. Lineage 2 never got big outside of Asia(or more specifically Korea) and TERA has been run into the ground with legal issues about Lineage 3 code.
Another interesting fact - They announced GW2 just when they started working on it. This is very unusual. Normally you announce a game with a trailer or in-game screenshots, but they announced it just as they started working on it. I think it tells you something about about NCsoft really having given them legs to do their thing.
I really don't think it's that different when it comes to Blizzard. Gamers like to cast blame on everyone, but I don't think Acti is anymore greedy than Vivendi was. People want to seperate everything into good and evil and black and white. It ain't that simple.
Doesn't matter how much gold you have. You can't do shit without supply. Do your research next time.
Not really roadblock, your side is going to want to hold/keep supply objectivies anyhow(to upgrade keeps, rebuild doors etc).
His point still stands, someone who buys gems with $ and trades to gold can buy more Seige weapons, thus a advantage without any "in-game" progression or play.
Its funny watching all the people with GW2 sigs race to white knight any thread/post that may even be a "Slight" negative towards the game.
Funny, mostly I see them racing to correct the vast amount of misinformation and the idiots who are spewing it without a thought for doing any research on their own. /shrug Guess I just don't perceive the responses the same way you do. I left my under the bridge dweller goggles on my desk. Shucks.
Guess we'll all just see how it comes out in the wash. Personally, I'm not convinced that Anet will ruin their game by being less than stringent with their cash shop. But time will tell.
That's the funny thing about life.
Two people can look at the same thing and both see different things. It all depends on your point of view.
The following is all you need to consider when deciding whether or not this can possibly create an unfair advantage:
A) Gem > gold transactions do not cause gold to magically materialize. They simply transfer gold already generated in-game from one player to another. The overall gold pool for your server does not change at all. Your server remains no more or less capable of purchasing siege weapons whether or not people on your realm purchase gold via gems.
Even if gem > gold transactions did magically infuse gold into the pockets of gold buyers(which they don't), there is no reason at all to think that one realm will have a significantly disproportionate number of gem > gold transactors compared to other realms. There would be no discernable advantage on a realm by realm basis.
C) Gold buyers do and always will exist regardless of this system. Though they still have nothing to do with creating an advantage in the particular situation of WvW seige weapon purchasing for reasons A and B explained above, this point simply serves to illustrate that GW2's gem > gold system changes nothingin this regard.
What's the next excuse? WvW isn't PvP so it doesn't have to be fair? Siege weapons can be used against players or the all mighty fort door. Hell, every gem buyer can buy the most expensive, and the only mobile siege weapon, the siege golem (A gundam!).
For those that don't already know, you can buy gems in the cash shop, then trade them for gold with other players.
Ugh, how did I miss this? I was going to play because it looked like a fun game (not an mmorpg but a fun game) with very little time investment. But no way, not this.
The following is all you need to consider when deciding whether or not this can possibly create an unfair advantage:
A) Gem > gold transactions do not cause gold to magically materialize. They simply transfer gold already generated in-game from one player to another. The overall gold pool for your server does not change at all. Your server remains no more or less capable of purchasing siege weapons whether or not people on your realm purchase gold via gems.
Even if gem > gold transactions did magically infuse gold into the pockets of gold buyers(which they don't), there is no reason at all to think that one realm will have a significantly disproportionate number of gem > gold transactors compared to other realms. There would be no discernable advantage on a realm by realm basis.
C) Gold buyers do and always will exist regardless of this system. Though they still have nothing to do with creating an advantage in the particular situation of WvW seige weapon purchasing for reasons A and B explained above, this point simply serves to illustrate that GW2's gem > gold system changes nothingin this regard.
A big clarification on B above. You can only trade Gold for Gems on the in-game Marketplace. The Marketplace is not server wide, it is cross server and global! No server will have an advantage on Gold/Gem trading, (supply,demand or pricing), because all transactions are on a Global Marketplace.
The marketplace is the Guild Wars 2 player trading system. It is global, enabling trade between players on different servers.[1] It can be used to sell and buy items without the need to find a buyer or seller first. While items can only be put up for sale when in-game, it is possible to browse, bid, or cancel auctions and offers when out of-game and logged into a web browser. A sale can be completed whilst the seller is offline, with the coin going into an account bank.[2]
The marketplace is capable of displaying the history and trends of item values.
The following is all you need to consider when deciding whether or not this can possibly create an unfair advantage: A) Gem > gold transactions do not cause gold to magically materialize. They simply transfer gold already generated in-game from one player to another. The overall gold pool for your server does not change at all. Your server remains no more or less capable of purchasing siege weapons whether or not people on your realm purchase gold via gems. Even if gem > gold transactions did magically infuse gold into the pockets of gold buyers (which they don't), there is no reason at all to think that one realm will have a significantly disproportionate number of gem > gold transactors compared to other realms. There would be no discernable advantage on a realm by realm basis. C) Gold buyers do and always will exist regardless of this system. Though they still have nothing to do with creating an advantage in the particular situation of WvW seige weapon purchasing for reasons A and B explained above, this point simply serves to illustrate that GW2's gem > gold system changes nothing in this regard.
A) It really doesn't matter though. Every MMO I have ever played has an infinite amount of gold. Every time a mob spawns, is killed and looted, that is gold that is "magically infused" and if people are doing it 10x harder to buy gems...well it kinda does spawn gold. Gems will make people farm it that much harder and faster and sooner than it would otherwise be acquired, GW2 will be flooded with more gold and faster than it would if there was no RMT conversions.
In all likelihood, most realms will probably hover around the same number of RMT transactions....or at least maintain a percentage based on server populations. With exceptions being if a particular server gets one of those infamous big spender gamers.
C) The question should not be IF gold farmers/sellers exist. But how many? Yep, they existed in WoW, I never met many. Most of the guys I knew didn't want to risk a ban. But when I played Anarchy Online after they implemented their cash shop with RMT, guess how many People I knew who would buy items and resell in game for RMT currency? Everyone. Yep Everyone was doing it. So there is a HUGE difference on the impact of the economy based on the percentage of people engaging in RMT.
I believe that since A and B were not properly evaluated, I am not sure how it changes nothing.
Found a bit of info on Mystic chests. Since that seems to be the most pressing issue to some. Apprently they contain a random tool, a random buff or a random tonic. No weapons, no armor, no influence, no karma and no gold. Hardly an advantage and hardly a cause for whining.
Originally posted by heartless Found a bit of info on Mystic chests. Since that seems to be the most pressing issue to some. Apprently they contain a random tool, a random buff or a random tonic. No weapons, no armor, no influence, no karma and no gold. Hardly an advantage and hardly a cause for whining. The info can be found in this video at 9:28m.
Found a bit of info on Mystic chests. Since that seems to be the most pressing issue to some. Apprently they contain a random tool, a random buff or a random tonic. No weapons, no armor, no influence, no karma and no gold. Hardly an advantage and hardly a cause for whining.
To be honest that was one of the items where it didn't really matter what was in them. It was just obnoxious to put these chests in the game, have the keys fall at a slower rate, and then make you go to cash shop to buy more keys in order to see what is in them.
There could be cosmetic pets in them it is still obnoxious. It is basically an in-game advertisement to go to the cash shop.
The pay2win issue I have has nothing to do with the mystic keys. That has more to do with the influence you can buy with gold which you can buy with gems.
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind" 1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN 2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
Found a bit of info on Mystic chests. Since that seems to be the most pressing issue to some. Apprently they contain a random tool, a random buff or a random tonic. No weapons, no armor, no influence, no karma and no gold. Hardly an advantage and hardly a cause for whining.
Found a bit of info on Mystic chests. Since that seems to be the most pressing issue to some. Apprently they contain a random tool, a random buff or a random tonic. No weapons, no armor, no influence, no karma and no gold. Hardly an advantage and hardly a cause for whining.
To be honest that was one of the items where it didn't really matter what was in them. It was just obnoxious to put these chests in the game, have the keys fall at a slower rate, and then make you go to cash shop to buy more keys in order to see what is in them.
There could be cosmetic pets in them it is still obnoxious. It is basically an in-game advertisement to go to the cash shop.
The pay2win issue I have has nothing to do with the mystic keys. That has more to do with the influence you can buy with gold which you can buy with gems.
The influence which can be purchased with gold is limited in use. You can't just spam it. Besides that, you get more influence by simply playing the game as pretty much everything you and your guild members do, earns influence.
Originally posted by heartless Found a bit of info on Mystic chests. Since that seems to be the most pressing issue to some. Apprently they contain a random tool, a random buff or a random tonic. No weapons, no armor, no influence, no karma and no gold. Hardly an advantage and hardly a cause for whining. The info can be found in this video at 9:28m.
It's Beta
That works both ways.
You are the one who said what is/isn't in them. I didn't make any claim
Let's just assume this isn't ANet and is some other unscrupulous developer like say NCSoft. If it was their intent to put something that might kick up a shitstorm in there, do you really think it would be in ther during beta?
Found a bit of info on Mystic chests. Since that seems to be the most pressing issue to some. Apprently they contain a random tool, a random buff or a random tonic. No weapons, no armor, no influence, no karma and no gold. Hardly an advantage and hardly a cause for whining.
To be honest that was one of the items where it didn't really matter what was in them. It was just obnoxious to put these chests in the game, have the keys fall at a slower rate, and then make you go to cash shop to buy more keys in order to see what is in them.
There could be cosmetic pets in them it is still obnoxious. It is basically an in-game advertisement to go to the cash shop.
The pay2win issue I have has nothing to do with the mystic keys. That has more to do with the influence you can buy with gold which you can buy with gems.
The influence which can be purchased with gold is limited in use. You can't just spam it. Besides that, you get more influence by simply playing the game as pretty much everything you and your guild members do, earns influence.
They really just need to ditch that mechanic in my opinion. It is the most clear pay2win aspect of the game, no matter how "small" of an effect it is or claimed to be. It is not hard to see the boosts that inflluence get you in RvRvR. Having ability to purchase influence with gold, and then allowing purchase of gold with gems, is just too clear of a link of money->advantage.
It is my biggest issue by far with the game regarding pay2win.
My second biggest issue is the mystic keys which I just think are very crass, never said they were pay2win. Those chests sitting in my inventory would just piss the crap out of me.
If they got rid of the gold->influence and the mystic keys, I might actually reconsider this game.
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind" 1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN 2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
Found a bit of info on Mystic chests. Since that seems to be the most pressing issue to some. Apprently they contain a random tool, a random buff or a random tonic. No weapons, no armor, no influence, no karma and no gold. Hardly an advantage and hardly a cause for whining.
To be honest that was one of the items where it didn't really matter what was in them. It was just obnoxious to put these chests in the game, have the keys fall at a slower rate, and then make you go to cash shop to buy more keys in order to see what is in them.
There could be cosmetic pets in them it is still obnoxious. It is basically an in-game advertisement to go to the cash shop.
The pay2win issue I have has nothing to do with the mystic keys. That has more to do with the influence you can buy with gold which you can buy with gems.
The influence which can be purchased with gold is limited in use. You can't just spam it. Besides that, you get more influence by simply playing the game as pretty much everything you and your guild members do, earns influence.
They really just need to ditch that mechanic in my opinion. It is the most clear pay2win aspect of the game, no matter how "small" of an effect it is or claimed to be. It is not hard to see the boosts that inflluence get you in RvRvR. Having ability to purchase influence with gold, and then allowing purchase of gold with gems, is just too clear of a link of money->advantage.
It is my biggest issue by far with the game regarding pay2win.
My second biggest issue is the mystic keys which I just think are very crass, never said they were pay2win. Those chests sitting in my inventory would just piss the crap out of me.
If they got rid of the gold->influence and the mystic keys, I might actually reconsider this game.
It's not going to make a difference in the long run anyway. Any guild that is big enough to capture and defend the keep will be able to generate enough influence on it's own, without the need to resort to RMT.
Originally posted by heartless Found a bit of info on Mystic chests. Since that seems to be the most pressing issue to some. Apprently they contain a random tool, a random buff or a random tonic. No weapons, no armor, no influence, no karma and no gold. Hardly an advantage and hardly a cause for whining. The info can be found in this video at 9:28m.
To be honest that was one of the items where it didn't really matter what was in them. It was just obnoxious to put these chests in the game, have the keys fall at a slower rate, and then make you go to cash shop to buy more keys in order to see what is in them. There could be cosmetic pets in them it is still obnoxious. It is basically an in-game advertisement to go to the cash shop. The pay2win issue I have has nothing to do with the mystic keys. That has more to do with the influence you can buy with gold which you can buy with gems.
You know, I can respect this. I don't agree, but I get it.
To me, with any kind of self control, these items are easily vendored unopened. If I do have extra cash at the end of the month, this is another little thing I could buy to support development.
Granted, It is a kind of advertisement that the store exists, but if it helps bring in revenue, I don't find it intrusive. TF2 had a similar system, and not only did I never once purchase anything, but I loved that game.
Found a bit of info on Mystic chests. Since that seems to be the most pressing issue to some. Apprently they contain a random tool, a random buff or a random tonic. No weapons, no armor, no influence, no karma and no gold. Hardly an advantage and hardly a cause for whining.
To be honest that was one of the items where it didn't really matter what was in them. It was just obnoxious to put these chests in the game, have the keys fall at a slower rate, and then make you go to cash shop to buy more keys in order to see what is in them.
There could be cosmetic pets in them it is still obnoxious. It is basically an in-game advertisement to go to the cash shop.
The pay2win issue I have has nothing to do with the mystic keys. That has more to do with the influence you can buy with gold which you can buy with gems.
The influence which can be purchased with gold is limited in use. You can't just spam it. Besides that, you get more influence by simply playing the game as pretty much everything you and your guild members do, earns influence.
They really just need to ditch that mechanic in my opinion. It is the most clear pay2win aspect of the game, no matter how "small" of an effect it is or claimed to be. It is not hard to see the boosts that inflluence get you in RvRvR. Having ability to purchase influence with gold, and then allowing purchase of gold with gems, is just too clear of a link of money->advantage.
It is my biggest issue by far with the game regarding pay2win.
My second biggest issue is the mystic keys which I just think are very crass, never said they were pay2win. Those chests sitting in my inventory would just piss the crap out of me.
If they got rid of the gold->influence and the mystic keys, I might actually reconsider this game.
It's not going to make a difference in the long run anyway. Any guild that is big enough to capture and defend the keep will be able to generate enough influence on it's own, without the need to resort to RMT.
Then they should just ditch it. If it wasn't important and nobody needs it, then just ditch it. The fact that they haven't says more to me than somebody in a message board who says it doesn't matter.
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind" 1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN 2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
Found a bit of info on Mystic chests. Since that seems to be the most pressing issue to some. Apprently they contain a random tool, a random buff or a random tonic. No weapons, no armor, no influence, no karma and no gold. Hardly an advantage and hardly a cause for whining.
Let's just assume this isn't ANet and is some other unscrupulous developer like say NCSoft.
If it was their intent to put something that might kick up a shitstorm in there, do you really think it would be in ther during beta?
We can assume that ANet is EA or Sony or Activision or any other unscrupulous developer out there. But the fact of the matter is that they are not and whatever unsavory things other developers do, has nothing to do with ANet or GW2.
Found a bit of info on Mystic chests. Since that seems to be the most pressing issue to some. Apprently they contain a random tool, a random buff or a random tonic. No weapons, no armor, no influence, no karma and no gold. Hardly an advantage and hardly a cause for whining.
Let's just assume this isn't ANet and is some other unscrupulous developer like say NCSoft.
If it was their intent to put something that might kick up a shitstorm in there, do you really think it would be in ther during beta?
We can assume that ANet is EA or Sony or Activision or any other unscrupulous developer out there. But the fact of the matter is that they are not and whatever unsavory things other developers do, has nothing to do with ANet or GW2.
Well Jeff Strain is no longer there in charge of product development. Times have changed at Anet, don't assume they are doing charity work here, as is apparent to those who have followed the recent evolution of their cash shop philosophy.
NOBODY would have thought they'd be selling gold even just a year ago. If you say you thought they would I'm not gonna call you a liar, but I'll be thinking it...
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind" 1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN 2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
Originally posted by heartless Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh
Originally posted by heartless
Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh
Originally posted by heartless Found a bit of info on Mystic chests. Since that seems to be the most pressing issue to some. Apprently they contain a random tool, a random buff or a random tonic. No weapons, no armor, no influence, no karma and no gold. Hardly an advantage and hardly a cause for whining. The info can be found in this video at 9:28m.
It's Beta
That works both ways.
You are the one who said what is/isn't in them. I didn't make any claim Let's just assume this isn't ANet and is some other unscrupulous developer like say NCSoft. If it was their intent to put something that might kick up a shitstorm in there, do you really think it would be in ther during beta?
We can assume that ANet is EA or Sony or Activision or any other unscrupulous developer out there. But the fact of the matter is that they are not and whatever unsavory things other developers do, has nothing to do with ANet or GW2.
But the point was that you made an assumption that because today, there is nothing valuable in those chests, then there will be nothing valuable after release.
Look, I am not betting the farm that those chests will be deal breakers, personally, I see them containing all kinds of consumables. And that doesn't bother me.
What I am saying is even if ANet is staying on the up and up, they are still keeping the true contents of that shop under NDA and that means the most benign item will be in those chests.
Found a bit of info on Mystic chests. Since that seems to be the most pressing issue to some. Apprently they contain a random tool, a random buff or a random tonic. No weapons, no armor, no influence, no karma and no gold. Hardly an advantage and hardly a cause for whining.
To be honest that was one of the items where it didn't really matter what was in them. It was just obnoxious to put these chests in the game, have the keys fall at a slower rate, and then make you go to cash shop to buy more keys in order to see what is in them.
There could be cosmetic pets in them it is still obnoxious. It is basically an in-game advertisement to go to the cash shop.
The pay2win issue I have has nothing to do with the mystic keys. That has more to do with the influence you can buy with gold which you can buy with gems.
The influence which can be purchased with gold is limited in use. You can't just spam it. Besides that, you get more influence by simply playing the game as pretty much everything you and your guild members do, earns influence.
They really just need to ditch that mechanic in my opinion. It is the most clear pay2win aspect of the game, no matter how "small" of an effect it is or claimed to be. It is not hard to see the boosts that inflluence get you in RvRvR. Having ability to purchase influence with gold, and then allowing purchase of gold with gems, is just too clear of a link of money->advantage.
It is my biggest issue by far with the game regarding pay2win.
My second biggest issue is the mystic keys which I just think are very crass, never said they were pay2win. Those chests sitting in my inventory would just piss the crap out of me.
If they got rid of the gold->influence and the mystic keys, I might actually reconsider this game.
It's not going to make a difference in the long run anyway. Any guild that is big enough to capture and defend the keep will be able to generate enough influence on it's own, without the need to resort to RMT.
Then they should just ditch it. If it wasn't important and nobody needs it, then just ditch it. The fact that they haven't says more to me than somebody in a message board who says it doesn't matter.
They may still, after all the game is still in beta.
However, I understand their reasoning behind it. The ability to purchase influence with gold was added so that smaller guilds, those with less than 10 people, can earn enough influence to get some guild bonuses as well.
I think that you're reading too much into it. The fact is that you're going to need a lot of people to capture and defend a keep. Mostly large guilds will be able to do that successfuly as you need to maintain allied presence in the keep 24 hours a day. The large guilds will generate enough influence just by playing the game so there is no need for them to trade gems for gold. And even if a small guild does buy a whole crap load of influence, they will have no chance of using it in the Mists. They just won't have the manpower to defend the keep even if they do manage to take one. So who cares if they bought gold? They will only use it to unlock guild bank slots and crafting buffs and other stuff that has no effect on you me or the other guy.
Found a bit of info on Mystic chests. Since that seems to be the most pressing issue to some. Apprently they contain a random tool, a random buff or a random tonic. No weapons, no armor, no influence, no karma and no gold. Hardly an advantage and hardly a cause for whining.
Let's just assume this isn't ANet and is some other unscrupulous developer like say NCSoft.
If it was their intent to put something that might kick up a shitstorm in there, do you really think it would be in ther during beta?
We can assume that ANet is EA or Sony or Activision or any other unscrupulous developer out there. But the fact of the matter is that they are not and whatever unsavory things other developers do, has nothing to do with ANet or GW2.
But the point was that you made an assumption that because today, there is nothing valuable in those chests, then there will be nothing valuable after release.
Look, I am not betting the farm that those chests will be deal breakers, personally, I see them containing all kinds of consumables. And that doesn't bother me.
What I am saying is even if ANet is staying on the up and up, they are still keeping the true contents of that shop under NDA and that means the most benign item will be in those chests.
I didn't make an assumption, the stuff is currently in the game. You're basing your whole anti-cash shop argument on the stuff that is currently in the game and yet dismiss my proof that the stuff is not worth the effort with "it's beta." A bit of a double standard there, won't you agree?
As far as the NDA goes, the game is still very much in closed beta without even a release date set. The game may take 6 more months to finish. How many developers do you know that drop the NDA while the game is still in development? If anything this whole post is a perfect example of why the NDA is still in place.
Originally posted by heartless Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh
Originally posted by heartless
Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh
Originally posted by heartless
Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh
Originally posted by heartless Found a bit of info on Mystic chests. Since that seems to be the most pressing issue to some. Apprently they contain a random tool, a random buff or a random tonic. No weapons, no armor, no influence, no karma and no gold. Hardly an advantage and hardly a cause for whining. The info can be found in this video at 9:28m.
It's Beta
That works both ways.
You are the one who said what is/isn't in them. I didn't make any claim Let's just assume this isn't ANet and is some other unscrupulous developer like say NCSoft. If it was their intent to put something that might kick up a shitstorm in there, do you really think it would be in ther during beta?
We can assume that ANet is EA or Sony or Activision or any other unscrupulous developer out there. But the fact of the matter is that they are not and whatever unsavory things other developers do, has nothing to do with ANet or GW2.
But the point was that you made an assumption that because today, there is nothing valuable in those chests, then there will be nothing valuable after release. Look, I am not betting the farm that those chests will be deal breakers, personally, I see them containing all kinds of consumables. And that doesn't bother me.
What I am saying is even if ANet is staying on the up and up, they are still keeping the true contents of that shop under NDA and that means the most benign item will be in those chests. I didn't make an assumption, the stuff is currently in the game. You're basing your whole anti-cash shop argument on the stuff that is currently in the game and yet dismiss my proof that the stuff is not worth the effort with "it's beta." A bit of a double standard there, won't you agree? As far as the NDA goes, the game is still very much in closed beta without even a release date set. The game may take 6 more months to finish. How many developers do you know that drop the NDA while the game is still in development? If anything this whole post is a perfect example of why the NDA is still in place. Nope! I don't You said "Apprently they contain a random tool, a random buff or a random tonic. No weapons, no armor, no influence, no karma and no gold. Hardly an advantage and hardly a cause for whining" Meaning: All clear, nothing to worry about! I said "It's beta" Meaning, we won't know until release if that's really what will be in there.
If you wish to continue twisting that, go for it, I said it pretty plainly. I don't think anyone who is unbiased would be as confused as you seem to be, but that's understandable seeing as you tripped your self up in your own words.
You sounded the "All Clear" I corrected that with a "Not so fast"
Originally posted by Eir_S I'm going to totally pwn everyone with my P2W tonics and buffs from mystic chests. Whole servers will fall before my might. TREMBLE, MORTALS!
Sorry to burst your bubbles, but cash shops/rmt are here to stay and its the future. You, the vocal forum minority can't do a thing and thats a fact. So why not embrace the change and buy the gems.
Obama said I'm getting free health care..I'm still waiting for it as well my free house and food.
Comments
NCsoft has not been the best company, but from what I have seen, they left ArenaNet alone during GW1's days. That's impossible to say for sure, because none of us work there, or know the internal interplay between them.
But if you look at fiscals from GW1 to lets say 2010 - It's easy to see that in EU/US and most places outside of Korea/China/Japan, (Brazil, India, Taiwan, Phillippines, and several others...) Guild Wars was a steady money stream.
NCsoft lost A LOT. A lot. Even before the recession, on failures like Auto Assault and Tabula Rasa. Lineage 2 never got big outside of Asia(or more specifically Korea) and TERA has been run into the ground with legal issues about Lineage 3 code.
Another interesting fact - They announced GW2 just when they started working on it. This is very unusual. Normally you announce a game with a trailer or in-game screenshots, but they announced it just as they started working on it. I think it tells you something about about NCsoft really having given them legs to do their thing.
I really don't think it's that different when it comes to Blizzard. Gamers like to cast blame on everyone, but I don't think Acti is anymore greedy than Vivendi was. People want to seperate everything into good and evil and black and white. It ain't that simple.
That's the funny thing about life.
Two people can look at the same thing and both see different things. It all depends on your point of view.
The following is all you need to consider when deciding whether or not this can possibly create an unfair advantage:
A) Gem > gold transactions do not cause gold to magically materialize. They simply transfer gold already generated in-game from one player to another. The overall gold pool for your server does not change at all. Your server remains no more or less capable of purchasing siege weapons whether or not people on your realm purchase gold via gems.
C) Gold buyers do and always will exist regardless of this system. Though they still have nothing to do with creating an advantage in the particular situation of WvW seige weapon purchasing for reasons A and B explained above, this point simply serves to illustrate that GW2's gem > gold system changes nothing in this regard.
Ugh, how did I miss this? I was going to play because it looked like a fun game (not an mmorpg but a fun game) with very little time investment. But no way, not this.
A big clarification on B above. You can only trade Gold for Gems on the in-game Marketplace. The Marketplace is not server wide, it is cross server and global! No server will have an advantage on Gold/Gem trading, (supply,demand or pricing), because all transactions are on a Global Marketplace.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Marketplace
The marketplace is the Guild Wars 2 player trading system. It is global, enabling trade between players on different servers.[1] It can be used to sell and buy items without the need to find a buyer or seller first. While items can only be put up for sale when in-game, it is possible to browse, bid, or cancel auctions and offers when out of-game and logged into a web browser. A sale can be completed whilst the seller is offline, with the coin going into an account bank.[2]
The marketplace is capable of displaying the history and trends of item values.
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
A) It really doesn't matter though. Every MMO I have ever played has an infinite amount of gold. Every time a mob spawns, is killed and looted, that is gold that is "magically infused" and if people are doing it 10x harder to buy gems...well it kinda does spawn gold. Gems will make people farm it that much harder and faster and sooner than it would otherwise be acquired, GW2 will be flooded with more gold and faster than it would if there was no RMT conversions.
C) The question should not be IF gold farmers/sellers exist. But how many? Yep, they existed in WoW, I never met many. Most of the guys I knew didn't want to risk a ban. But when I played Anarchy Online after they implemented their cash shop with RMT, guess how many People I knew who would buy items and resell in game for RMT currency? Everyone. Yep Everyone was doing it. So there is a HUGE difference on the impact of the economy based on the percentage of people engaging in RMT.
I believe that since A and B were not properly evaluated, I am not sure how it changes nothing.
Found a bit of info on Mystic chests. Since that seems to be the most pressing issue to some. Apprently they contain a random tool, a random buff or a random tonic. No weapons, no armor, no influence, no karma and no gold. Hardly an advantage and hardly a cause for whining.
The info can be found in this video at 9:28m.
It's Beta
To be honest that was one of the items where it didn't really matter what was in them. It was just obnoxious to put these chests in the game, have the keys fall at a slower rate, and then make you go to cash shop to buy more keys in order to see what is in them.
There could be cosmetic pets in them it is still obnoxious. It is basically an in-game advertisement to go to the cash shop.
The pay2win issue I have has nothing to do with the mystic keys. That has more to do with the influence you can buy with gold which you can buy with gems.
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
That works both ways.
The influence which can be purchased with gold is limited in use. You can't just spam it. Besides that, you get more influence by simply playing the game as pretty much everything you and your guild members do, earns influence.
You are the one who said what is/isn't in them.
I didn't make any claim
Let's just assume this isn't ANet and is some other unscrupulous developer like say NCSoft.
If it was their intent to put something that might kick up a shitstorm in there, do you really think it would be in ther during beta?
They really just need to ditch that mechanic in my opinion. It is the most clear pay2win aspect of the game, no matter how "small" of an effect it is or claimed to be. It is not hard to see the boosts that inflluence get you in RvRvR. Having ability to purchase influence with gold, and then allowing purchase of gold with gems, is just too clear of a link of money->advantage.
It is my biggest issue by far with the game regarding pay2win.
My second biggest issue is the mystic keys which I just think are very crass, never said they were pay2win. Those chests sitting in my inventory would just piss the crap out of me.
If they got rid of the gold->influence and the mystic keys, I might actually reconsider this game.
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
It's not going to make a difference in the long run anyway. Any guild that is big enough to capture and defend the keep will be able to generate enough influence on it's own, without the need to resort to RMT.
You know, I can respect this. I don't agree, but I get it.
To me, with any kind of self control, these items are easily vendored unopened. If I do have extra cash at the end of the month, this is another little thing I could buy to support development.
Granted, It is a kind of advertisement that the store exists, but if it helps bring in revenue, I don't find it intrusive. TF2 had a similar system, and not only did I never once purchase anything, but I loved that game.
Then they should just ditch it. If it wasn't important and nobody needs it, then just ditch it. The fact that they haven't says more to me than somebody in a message board who says it doesn't matter.
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
We can assume that ANet is EA or Sony or Activision or any other unscrupulous developer out there. But the fact of the matter is that they are not and whatever unsavory things other developers do, has nothing to do with ANet or GW2.
Well Jeff Strain is no longer there in charge of product development. Times have changed at Anet, don't assume they are doing charity work here, as is apparent to those who have followed the recent evolution of their cash shop philosophy.
NOBODY would have thought they'd be selling gold even just a year ago. If you say you thought they would I'm not gonna call you a liar, but I'll be thinking it...
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
It's Beta
That works both ways.
You are the one who said what is/isn't in them.
I didn't make any claim
Let's just assume this isn't ANet and is some other unscrupulous developer like say NCSoft.
If it was their intent to put something that might kick up a shitstorm in there, do you really think it would be in ther during beta?
We can assume that ANet is EA or Sony or Activision or any other unscrupulous developer out there. But the fact of the matter is that they are not and whatever unsavory things other developers do, has nothing to do with ANet or GW2.
But the point was that you made an assumption that because today, there is nothing valuable in those chests, then there will be nothing valuable after release.
Look, I am not betting the farm that those chests will be deal breakers, personally, I see them containing all kinds of consumables. And that doesn't bother me.
What I am saying is even if ANet is staying on the up and up, they are still keeping the true contents of that shop under NDA and that means the most benign item will be in those chests.
They may still, after all the game is still in beta.
However, I understand their reasoning behind it. The ability to purchase influence with gold was added so that smaller guilds, those with less than 10 people, can earn enough influence to get some guild bonuses as well.
I think that you're reading too much into it. The fact is that you're going to need a lot of people to capture and defend a keep. Mostly large guilds will be able to do that successfuly as you need to maintain allied presence in the keep 24 hours a day. The large guilds will generate enough influence just by playing the game so there is no need for them to trade gems for gold. And even if a small guild does buy a whole crap load of influence, they will have no chance of using it in the Mists. They just won't have the manpower to defend the keep even if they do manage to take one. So who cares if they bought gold? They will only use it to unlock guild bank slots and crafting buffs and other stuff that has no effect on you me or the other guy.
I didn't make an assumption, the stuff is currently in the game. You're basing your whole anti-cash shop argument on the stuff that is currently in the game and yet dismiss my proof that the stuff is not worth the effort with "it's beta." A bit of a double standard there, won't you agree?
As far as the NDA goes, the game is still very much in closed beta without even a release date set. The game may take 6 more months to finish. How many developers do you know that drop the NDA while the game is still in development? If anything this whole post is a perfect example of why the NDA is still in place.
It's Beta
That works both ways.
You are the one who said what is/isn't in them.
I didn't make any claim
Let's just assume this isn't ANet and is some other unscrupulous developer like say NCSoft.
If it was their intent to put something that might kick up a shitstorm in there, do you really think it would be in ther during beta?
We can assume that ANet is EA or Sony or Activision or any other unscrupulous developer out there. But the fact of the matter is that they are not and whatever unsavory things other developers do, has nothing to do with ANet or GW2.
But the point was that you made an assumption that because today, there is nothing valuable in those chests, then there will be nothing valuable after release.
Look, I am not betting the farm that those chests will be deal breakers, personally, I see them containing all kinds of consumables. And that doesn't bother me.
What I am saying is even if ANet is staying on the up and up, they are still keeping the true contents of that shop under NDA and that means the most benign item will be in those chests.
I didn't make an assumption, the stuff is currently in the game. You're basing your whole anti-cash shop argument on the stuff that is currently in the game and yet dismiss my proof that the stuff is not worth the effort with "it's beta." A bit of a double standard there, won't you agree?
As far as the NDA goes, the game is still very much in closed beta without even a release date set. The game may take 6 more months to finish. How many developers do you know that drop the NDA while the game is still in development? If anything this whole post is a perfect example of why the NDA is still in place.
Nope! I don't
You said
"Apprently they contain a random tool, a random buff or a random tonic. No weapons, no armor, no influence, no karma and no gold. Hardly an advantage and hardly a cause for whining"
Meaning: All clear, nothing to worry about!
I said
"It's beta"
Meaning, we won't know until release if that's really what will be in there.
If you wish to continue twisting that, go for it, I said it pretty plainly. I don't think anyone who is unbiased would be as confused as you seem to be, but that's understandable seeing as you tripped your self up in your own words.
You sounded the "All Clear" I corrected that with a "Not so fast"
I'm going to totally pwn everyone with my P2W tonics and buffs from mystic chests. Whole servers will fall before my might. TREMBLE, MORTALS!
Wont that be ironic if there really are.
Blizzard's Daiblo 3 has their RMT
Funcom's TSW box+sub+cash shop
Tera is getting their cash shop
Planetside 2 will have cash shop
GW1 had cash shop...that didn't hurt me in pvp.
Sorry to burst your bubbles, but cash shops/rmt are here to stay and its the future. You, the vocal forum minority can't do a thing and thats a fact. So why not embrace the change and buy the gems.
Obama said I'm getting free health care..I'm still waiting for it as well my free house and food.