Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh Originally posted by jaffrojones Don't know if someone has said this, but also don't forget that if you haven't learned your skills for a particular weapon setup outside of PvP, you won't get them in it, regardless of your 8th level jump. So yes, even though you are 80th, it would make sense for you to gain skills in your weapons first, so you can have the skills to woop people asses.
Unless I misunderstood, that seems to contradict what I've read elsewhere.
I believe that's only true in WvW, in tournaments everything is unlocked.
Don't know if someone has said this, but also don't forget that if you haven't learned your skills for a particular weapon setup outside of PvP, you won't get them in it, regardless of your 8th level jump.
So yes, even though you are 80th, it would make sense for you to gain skills in your weapons first, so you can have the skills to woop people asses.
Unless I misunderstood, that seems to contradict what I've read elsewhere.
It's true for WvW, you have to learn the skills. For competitive PvP however everything is unlocked.
I thought mmorpgs were about progression, if I automatically wanted to get into the fray of things and have a game about 100% skill, wouldnt I play a twitched based FPS, mmorpgs should be 50% skill, 50% progression
oh noes - i can't gank no more! sad troll is sad.
You don't think WvW won't have gank squads and ganking?
had to read it twice to wonder if nomatics was serious tbh, why should a PVP game allow a level bias to determine the outcome of individual combat, i think the one thing that stands out in Arenanet's favour, head and shoulders above other games that have PVP components, is that it is player skill and player teamwork that defines the outcome of any PVP encounter, anyone who prefers the level bias version maybe ought to stick to 'older' MMO's and no im not saying WoW (even though i am)
People keep throwing around the word skill when what you mean is twitch based reflexive combat. That's only one way to approach "skill" based combat. In this form of combat twitch-based reflexes are a measure of the players skill and that is all along with hardware and latency.
GW2 shouldn't be compared to FPS games because FPS games actually offer more than twitch to measure a player's skill. There are tactics, terrains, and environmental factors along with "gear" in the form of vehicular units. GW2 has none of that.
Traditional RPG combat, whether it is pvp or pve, is based on building a character's power (gear, skill levels, character levels, builds). A good RPG will have strengths and weaknesses in that build and require teamwork to overcome those.
If "twitch" is *the* measure of skill, then yeah GW has skill based combat. If someone was really looking for skill based twitchy combat a FPS offer a far superior experience. Saying GW2 has skill based combat compared to other games is like saying Farmville offers a real sim experience compared to full on RTS. I'm not saying GW2 is the Farmville of twitch based combat complete with Zynga style cash shop (even though I am )
Response to headphon above in red.
Well, GW1 was not 'twitch' based combat. It was about what skills you have on your bar, the synergy between them, and how good you are with them. GW2 looks to be the same way so your assertion that GW2 will be twitch combat is funny and shows you know nothing abouut the game or the previous game.
Next!!!
I've played Guild Wars since day 1 of launch. It most certainly is twitch based complete with dodge mechanics. I don't take damage unless you can hit me. At least someone is finally admitting GW2 will be more of the same as GW1. So your assertion that you know something about the game or the previous game is funny.
Next!!!
Because bringing a proper build didn't matter one bit and you could always twitch your way to victory...
No one is saying there won't be any twitch involved in the gameplay, but there is much more to it that you refuse to admit.
NEXT!!!
see what I did there...
No twitch - if you thinking mashing the keys will win in GW1 - go play some GvG there - you get ass handed to you on a platter. As I said, please play the game betfore you espouse your 'brilliant - NOT' observations.
It is how you choose your skills and the synergy between them that counts - if you have skills that have no synery all the twitch you have will nto win you a PvP match in GW1.
Don't know if someone has said this, but also don't forget that if you haven't learned your skills for a particular weapon setup outside of PvP, you won't get them in it, regardless of your 8th level jump.
So yes, even though you are 80th, it would make sense for you to gain skills in your weapons first, so you can have the skills to woop people asses.
Unless I misunderstood, that seems to contradict what I've read elsewhere.
It's true for WvW, you have to learn the skills. For competitive PvP however everything is unlocked.
People keep throwing around the word skill when what you mean is twitch based reflexive combat. That's only one way to approach "skill" based combat. In this form of combat twitch-based reflexes are a measure of the players skill and that is all along with hardware and latency.
GW2 shouldn't be compared to FPS games because FPS games actually offer more than twitch to measure a player's skill. There are tactics, terrains, and environmental factors along with "gear" in the form of vehicular units. GW2 has none of that.
Some people really need to do some actual research on this game before posting.
I agree that FPS games take more skill than any MMO battleground out there, although that isn't my biggest issue with MMO battlegrounds. My biggest issue is that, other than the fantasy type skills you can choose, MMO battlegrounds are inferior in almost every objectively viewed feature. For starters:
1) FPS battlegrounds support more players than most MMO battlegrounds. Very ironic, but FPS battlegrounds are more "massive"
2) FPS battlegrounds have many different range tactics: melee, short, medium, and long (even across the map). MMO battlegrounds it is only melee or short range.
3) FPS battlegrounds are 3 dimensional in tactics. There are buildins with multiple levels where you could have snipers on the roof, on the floor, etc. There are stairway battles, hallway battles, open field battles, etc. In an MMO battlefield, it is basically a 2D battlefield (with illusion of 3D) with most tactics being open field tactics
4) FPS battlegrounds have diverse materials. There are glass surfaces which can break and are transparent. You have translucent surfaces, you have opaque surfaces. Some surfaces stop damage altogother, some mitigate it, others are basically like paper and only hide you not protect you. They also have different sound patterns. Different footsteps based on surface. Stealth is actually obtained via careful play not a "Invisible button" like in an MMO battlefield. MMO battlefields have none of the tactics of using the environment
5) FPS battlegrounds are much more dynamic. There are small intervals where a helicopter might be patrolling, either for you or against you. Your enemy might have radar out or maybe you do or maybe both do. In all the previous scenarios, your tactics must dynamically change to fit the scenario. And this just scratches the surface. There are many other dynamic scenarios that pop up making tactics very emergent. MMO battlegrounds on the other hand, purely static
6) FPS battlegrounds are much more diverse. Usually at least 15 maps and at least 15 or so gametypes. And each and every map can support each and every gametype. In an MMO battelground, you are LUCKY if there are 7 maps and usually each map supports ONE gametype
7) Graphics and sound are far superior and more important in a FPS battleground over an MMO battleground. In an FPS you actually need to listen to know where your enemies are.
8) In addition to all the more advanced tactics in an FPS the above 7 points illustrate, FPS games also require skill in aiming. MMO battlegrounds are tab-target where twitch skill is meaningless.
I could really go on and on and on, but the fact is anybody that plays MMOs for the battelgrounds and esport are just wasting their time. FPS is far superior in every single way other than if you want to choose "fantasy" type skills. But you are giving up a lot for that. In fact, you are giving up in every possible way just to get the fantasy skills. Unless you just like the uber-simplified environments, uber simplified tactics, and uber simplified everything else.
MMO battlegrounds are basically where FPS battlegrounds were around 10 years ago. It is pathetic.
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind" 1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN 2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
Originally posted by Volkon Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh
Originally posted by jaffrojones Don't know if someone has said this, but also don't forget that if you haven't learned your skills for a particular weapon setup outside of PvP, you won't get them in it, regardless of your 8th level jump. So yes, even though you are 80th, it would make sense for you to gain skills in your weapons first, so you can have the skills to woop people asses.
Unless I misunderstood, that seems to contradict what I've read elsewhere.
It's true for WvW, you have to learn the skills. For competitive PvP however everything is unlocked.
OP - Uh yeah, GW 1 was set up that way, too. However, people who chose that route did not have as good gear as people who progressed through the game levels. They were competative, but not as well geared. Not news.
Umm don't think you actually played GW1. there was ZERO advantage to pve char in pvp, infact they are kind of at a disadvantage since they can't customise armour/weapons to whatever they want, on the fly.
The only reason people used pve chars in pvp is to show off cool looking armour/weapons/pets they have grinded. which is how it should be in a competitive game, screw the OP and his mindset they can go play every other mmo and win based on grind aka "progression".
Meh they need to remove pvp gear or I won't bother with this game, I am so sick of games having 2 diff gear sets one for pve 1 for pvp, its stupid, everyone should have to raid for their gear, this ruins pvp in so many mmo's its not funny. Guess thats strike 2 in GW2's coffin, one more and I won't bother with it myself. They need to keep all gear to be pve raids so it preserves some sense of balance, otherwise it alieantes pve players from trying pvp, look at dark age fo camelot, it worked perfectly in that game, why do all these newer mmo's insist on having special pvp earnable gear and and such? Then again, not that I expect a decent mmo to come out ever again personally till wow dies. Tired of these casual mmo's where you can hit cap without any player interaction its kinda stupid, its supposed to be a mmorpg, its supposed to be social and have grouping, it is not supposed to bascally be a glorified single player game till cap.
Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:
A. Proven right (if something bad happens)
or
B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)
Don't know if someone has said this, but also don't forget that if you haven't learned your skills for a particular weapon setup outside of PvP, you won't get them in it, regardless of your 8th level jump.
So yes, even though you are 80th, it would make sense for you to gain skills in your weapons first, so you can have the skills to woop people asses.
Unless I misunderstood, that seems to contradict what I've read elsewhere.
It's true for WvW, you have to learn the skills. For competitive PvP however everything is unlocked.
Yeah, I was wrong. Sorry about that.
No big deal, it's easy to get wires crossed when there are so many different elements involved in a single game. It's going to take awhile to get used to it all.
Meh they need to remove pvp gear or I won't bother with this game, I am so sick of games having 2 diff gear sets one for pve 1 for pvp, its stupid, everyone should have to raid for their gear, this ruins pvp in so many mmo's its not funny. Guess thats strike 2 in GW2's coffin, one more and I won't bother with it myself. They need to keep all gear to be pve raids so it preserves some sense of balance, otherwise it alieantes pve players from trying pvp, look at dark age fo camelot, it worked perfectly in that game, why do all these newer mmo's insist on having special pvp earnable gear and and such? Then again, not that I expect a decent mmo to come out ever again personally till wow dies. Tired of these casual mmo's where you can hit cap without any player interaction its kinda stupid, its supposed to be a mmorpg, its supposed to be social and have grouping, it is not supposed to bascally be a glorified single player game till cap.
Meh they need to remove pvp gear or I won't bother with this game, I am so sick of games having 2 diff gear sets one for pve 1 for pvp, its stupid, everyone should have to raid for their gear, this ruins pvp in so many mmo's its not funny. Guess thats strike 2 in GW2's coffin, one more and I won't bother with it myself. They need to keep all gear to be pve raids so it preserves some sense of balance, otherwise it alieantes pve players from trying pvp, look at dark age fo camelot, it worked perfectly in that game, why do all these newer mmo's insist on having special pvp earnable gear and and such? Then again, not that I expect a decent mmo to come out ever again personally till wow dies. Tired of these casual mmo's where you can hit cap without any player interaction its kinda stupid, its supposed to be a mmorpg, its supposed to be social and have grouping, it is not supposed to bascally be a glorified single player game till cap.
Then you're in luck there isn't any pvp gear
Technically there is actually. PvPers can buy gear with glory. It's just that it has the same stats as PvE end gear.
Meh they need to remove pvp gear or I won't bother with this game, I am so sick of games having 2 diff gear sets one for pve 1 for pvp, its stupid, everyone should have to raid for their gear, this ruins pvp in so many mmo's its not funny. Guess thats strike 2 in GW2's coffin, one more and I won't bother with it myself. They need to keep all gear to be pve raids so it preserves some sense of balance, otherwise it alieantes pve players from trying pvp, look at dark age fo camelot, it worked perfectly in that game, why do all these newer mmo's insist on having special pvp earnable gear and and such? Then again, not that I expect a decent mmo to come out ever again personally till wow dies. Tired of these casual mmo's where you can hit cap without any player interaction its kinda stupid, its supposed to be a mmorpg, its supposed to be social and have grouping, it is not supposed to bascally be a glorified single player game till cap.
Then you're in luck there isn't any pvp gear
I don't think you have to "raid" for your gear either tho. infact I don't think there are technically raids like in other mmos, nor is pvp gear based anyway.
if its like gw1 and I suspect it is all classes will have the same level on gear in pvp. of course you can customise it, maybe you have to pve to get some of the customisations but they are not nessarily more powerful, thats something I heard in a video anyway.
Meh they need to remove pvp gear or I won't bother with this game, I am so sick of games having 2 diff gear sets one for pve 1 for pvp, its stupid, everyone should have to raid for their gear, this ruins pvp in so many mmo's its not funny. Guess thats strike 2 in GW2's coffin, one more and I won't bother with it myself. They need to keep all gear to be pve raids so it preserves some sense of balance, otherwise it alieantes pve players from trying pvp, look at dark age fo camelot, it worked perfectly in that game, why do all these newer mmo's insist on having special pvp earnable gear and and such? Then again, not that I expect a decent mmo to come out ever again personally till wow dies. Tired of these casual mmo's where you can hit cap without any player interaction its kinda stupid, its supposed to be a mmorpg, its supposed to be social and have grouping, it is not supposed to bascally be a glorified single player game till cap.
Then you're in luck there isn't any pvp gear
I don't think you have to "raid" for your gear either tho. infact I don't think there are technically raids like in other mmos, nor is pvp gear based anyway.
if its like gw1 and I suspect it is all classes will have the same level on gear in pvp. of course you can customise it, maybe you have to pve to get some of the customisations but they are not nessarily more powerful, thats something I heard in a video anyway.
That's accurate. PvP gear has it's own look, each dungeon has it's own look, etc. Level 80 gear is all comparable in stats. You can even transfer those level 80 stats onto level 20 gear if you like how that looks better.
Competitive PvP - From level 1, everyone can have fun and be equal. It's about skill, being balanced and as fun and fast and frantic complementing classic GW, first person action games and fun fast gameplay sessions.
People can unlock more cool looking gear but it won't make a impact, because it's already max.
WvWvW - This is made to be unbalanced, and unfair. Thats the tag line. And Balthazar said; "let there be zerg" and thus red team was swarmped.
In WvW everything from PvE carries over. your gear, skills, level, everything. And you can lvl to 80 if you so desire.
So you get best of both worlds. In fact it's better than both worlds, because one of them contains 3 worlds, so hah!
Thirdly, you in competitive PvP you make the e-sport games - you can set is up as 1 vs 1. or all the way up to 10 vs 10. Having a 10 vs 10 is a pretty big battle to set up. you can make that into a G v G. You can make that your tournament format. you can set a password, and invite friends(or enemies).
That's accurate. PvP gear has it's own look, each dungeon has it's own look, etc. Level 80 gear is all comparable in stats. You can even transfer those level 80 stats onto level 20 gear if you like how that looks better.
With everything being able to use transmutation stones COMBINED with the OUTRAGOUS Dye system, it further diminishes the cash shop. people can make all the gear from lvl 1 all the way up to lvl 80 their preferenced gear.
Results:
1) no more clones.
2) everyone can look super unique
3) an entire games worth of equipment is suddenly possibily end game. Great for one like me who does not want to look like a glowing power ranger rainbow balloon at lvl 80.
That's accurate. PvP gear has it's own look, each dungeon has it's own look, etc. Level 80 gear is all comparable in stats. You can even transfer those level 80 stats onto level 20 gear if you like how that looks better.
With everything being able to use transmutation stones COMBINED with the OUTRAGOUS Dye system, it further diminishes the cash shop. people can make all the gear from lvl 1 all the way up to lvl 80 their preferenced gear.
Results:
1) no more clones.
2) everyone can look super unique
3) an entire games worth of equipment is suddenly possibily end game. Great for one like me who does not want to look like a glowing power ranger rainbow balloon at lvl 80.
I want my character to look like Nyan Cat after a platefull of special brownies.
That's accurate. PvP gear has it's own look, each dungeon has it's own look, etc. Level 80 gear is all comparable in stats. You can even transfer those level 80 stats onto level 20 gear if you like how that looks better.
With everything being able to use transmutation stones COMBINED with the OUTRAGOUS Dye system, it further diminishes the cash shop. people can make all the gear from lvl 1 all the way up to lvl 80 their preferenced gear.
Results:
1) no more clones.
2) everyone can look super unique
3) an entire games worth of equipment is suddenly possibily end game. Great for one like me who does not want to look like a glowing power ranger rainbow balloon at lvl 80.
So can I assume you don't have any chaos items in GW1, since that would perfectly fit your glowing power ranger rainbow balloon analogy
I agree that FPS games take more skill than any MMO battleground out there, although that isn't my biggest issue with MMO battlegrounds. My biggest issue is that, other than the fantasy type skills you can choose, MMO battlegrounds are inferior in almost every objectively viewed feature. For starters:
1) FPS battlegrounds support more players than most MMO battlegrounds. Very ironic, but FPS battlegrounds are more "massive"
Really? Last I looksed, with few exceptions, most fps limit to 24x24 or smaller. There are a number of MMOs where battle sizes are similar. And Guild wars 2 is promising MUCH larger fights.
2) FPS battlegrounds have many different range tactics: melee, short, medium, and long (even across the map). MMO battlegrounds it is only melee or short range.
I've seen MMOs with multiple ranges. Cross-battlefield attacks being the only exception, probably because they tend to be overpowered. Let's not forget Call of Duty, where I can throw an axe 100m, bounce it off three walls, hit you in the shin, and you die.
3) FPS battlegrounds are 3 dimensional in tactics. There are buildins with multiple levels where you could have snipers on the roof, on the floor, etc. There are stairway battles, hallway battles, open field battles, etc. In an MMO battlefield, it is basically a 2D battlefield (with illusion of 3D) with most tactics being open field tactics
You've been playing too much WoW. There are many MMOs where pvp combat is multi-level. And we've already seen it in GW2's videos.
4) FPS battlegrounds have diverse materials. There are glass surfaces which can break and are transparent. You have translucent surfaces, you have opaque surfaces. Some surfaces stop damage altogother, some mitigate it, others are basically like paper and only hide you not protect you. They also have different sound patterns. Different footsteps based on surface. Stealth is actually obtained via careful play not a "Invisible button" like in an MMO battlefield. MMO battlefields have none of the tactics of using the environment
I will agree that destructible terrain, glass, materials you can shoot through, etc would ne an improvement many MMOs need to make. I'd also point out I've seen destructible windows in teh clock tower in GW2. Hopefully it's something we can see more of.
5) FPS battlegrounds are much more dynamic. There are small intervals where a helicopter might be patrolling, either for you or against you. Your enemy might have radar out or maybe you do or maybe both do. In all the previous scenarios, your tactics must dynamically change to fit the scenario. And this just scratches the surface. There are many other dynamic scenarios that pop up making tactics very emergent. MMO battlegrounds on the other hand, purely static
First off, the examples you list tend to be part of only a few FPS. Second, there are a few MMOs that make use of things like this in pvp too. Though I'll agree SOMETIMES we could use more of it. Many times it's just a crappy gimmick.
6) FPS battlegrounds are much more diverse. Usually at least 15 maps and at least 15 or so gametypes. And each and every map can support each and every gametype. In an MMO battelground, you are LUCKY if there are 7 maps and usually each map supports ONE gametype
With respect, I wonder how many FPS you've played. Map numbers notwithstanding (and I might point out, many games with that many maps only have them as payable DLC or player-made content), I can't think of many with 15 "unique" games modes. Typically it's Deathmatch, Team Deathmatch, CTF, King of the Hill, Horde, and Capture the resource points. Most every other "mode" out there is one of the above with a tiny twist.
7) Graphics and sound are far superior and more important in a FPS battleground over an MMO battleground. In an FPS you actually need to listen to know where your enemies are.
Directional sound, I'll agree, is something MMOs need to use more. I would disagree that graphics and sound are always superior though. That varies WILDLY from game to game.
8) In addition to all the more advanced tactics in an FPS the above 7 points illustrate, FPS games also require skill in aiming. MMO battlegrounds are tab-target where twitch skill is meaningless.
Something that is becoming rapidly irrelevant. Many of the "new" generation of MMOs (GW2, Tera, TSW, Archeage) are starting to stray from that model. Thankfully.
I could really go on and on and on, but the fact is anybody that plays MMOs for the battelgrounds and esport are just wasting their time. FPS is far superior in every single way other than if you want to choose "fantasy" type skills. But you are giving up a lot for that. In fact, you are giving up in every possible way just to get the fantasy skills. Unless you just like the uber-simplified environments, uber simplified tactics, and uber simplified everything else.
MMO battlegrounds are basically where FPS battlegrounds were around 10 years ago. It is pathetic.
MMO battlegrounds have also been around a lot less time. I don't believe they are as far behind as you claim, though I'll admit MMOs focus less on the development and polish of their BGs. Probably because they aren't the one-trick pony FPS games are. I'm sure you've noticed many FPS games cutting back on or eliminating their single-player function altogether, to become nothing but a series of repetitive battlegrounds. MMOs spread development usually on multiple fields: Single player PVE, small group PVE, raid/large group PVE, small group PVP, and raid/large group PVP. Plus secondaries like exploring, crafting, and socializing. You can't fault a swiss army knife for not having as much damage potential as a broadsword, when it's designed to do about 80 things a broadsword can't.
Lotta broad generalization there. Comments in cyan.
I thought mmorpgs were about progression, if I automatically wanted to get into the fray of things and have a game about 100% skill, wouldnt I play a twitched based FPS, mmorpgs should be 50% skill, 50% progression
Enjoy playing some other elitist game that caters to your needs. No sense in making a post that you dislike the game. I know it suprises me too but GW2 isnt for everyone *gasp*.
Playing: GW2 Waiting on: TESO Next Flop: Planetside 2 Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
I agree that FPS games take more skill than any MMO battleground out there, although that isn't my biggest issue with MMO battlegrounds. My biggest issue is that, other than the fantasy type skills you can choose, MMO battlegrounds are inferior in almost every objectively viewed feature. For starters:
1) FPS battlegrounds support more players than most MMO battlegrounds. Very ironic, but FPS battlegrounds are more "massive"
2) FPS battlegrounds have many different range tactics: melee, short, medium, and long (even across the map). MMO battlegrounds it is only melee or short range.
3) FPS battlegrounds are 3 dimensional in tactics. There are buildins with multiple levels where you could have snipers on the roof, on the floor, etc. There are stairway battles, hallway battles, open field battles, etc. In an MMO battlefield, it is basically a 2D battlefield (with illusion of 3D) with most tactics being open field tactics
4) FPS battlegrounds have diverse materials. There are glass surfaces which can break and are transparent. You have translucent surfaces, you have opaque surfaces. Some surfaces stop damage altogother, some mitigate it, others are basically like paper and only hide you not protect you. They also have different sound patterns. Different footsteps based on surface. Stealth is actually obtained via careful play not a "Invisible button" like in an MMO battlefield. MMO battlefields have none of the tactics of using the environment
5) FPS battlegrounds are much more dynamic. There are small intervals where a helicopter might be patrolling, either for you or against you. Your enemy might have radar out or maybe you do or maybe both do. In all the previous scenarios, your tactics must dynamically change to fit the scenario. And this just scratches the surface. There are many other dynamic scenarios that pop up making tactics very emergent. MMO battlegrounds on the other hand, purely static
6) FPS battlegrounds are much more diverse. Usually at least 15 maps and at least 15 or so gametypes. And each and every map can support each and every gametype. In an MMO battelground, you are LUCKY if there are 7 maps and usually each map supports ONE gametype
7) Graphics and sound are far superior and more important in a FPS battleground over an MMO battleground. In an FPS you actually need to listen to know where your enemies are.
8) In addition to all the more advanced tactics in an FPS the above 7 points illustrate, FPS games also require skill in aiming. MMO battlegrounds are tab-target where twitch skill is meaningless.
I could really go on and on and on, but the fact is anybody that plays MMOs for the battelgrounds and esport are just wasting their time. FPS is far superior in every single way other than if you want to choose "fantasy" type skills. But you are giving up a lot for that. In fact, you are giving up in every possible way just to get the fantasy skills. Unless you just like the uber-simplified environments, uber simplified tactics, and uber simplified everything else.
MMO battlegrounds are basically where FPS battlegrounds were around 10 years ago. It is pathetic.
While you do make some valid points, you also completely failed to follow my point (yes there was a message under that picture). You are in the GW2 forums, not the general MMO forums, please READ up on the game before posting.
Almost none of your points apply to this game.
The only points that are really valid in this context, are 1, 6, & 7 (8 is debateable). Furthermore, outside of this game, there ARE FPS MMOs. Not a ton, but you have planetside, APB, and soon to be planetside 2 / TSW. And while graphically they may not be as good as Crysis, it's not a huge gamebreaker for most people. Furthermore, it's been known for years now that it's impossible to make an MMO with the same graphics of a FPS without instancing the crap out of it. FPS games have dedicated servers for each game, and most have more localized maps. MMOs do not. So while your battleground may only have ~10 people in it, the server is supporting more than 10 players in OTHER battlegrounds. Kind of a big difference.
Anyway, back to GW2: There is many different tactics (melee, short range, long range, traps, across-the-map (trebuchets)), there are 3 dimensional tactics (not on par w/ a game like BF3, but lets get realistic here), there are diverse materials (glass, water, stone, fabric, wood, etc.), there are dynamic elements, and there is a certain degree of aiming. All of this can be seen in any of the plethora of Battle of Khylo videos, not to mention some of the WvW videos in which a siege is taking place.
The reason I posted was not to point out that FPS games take more skill that just twitch (although I do agree with you on that), it was more because doing even a small amount of research into the combat of this game shows how GW2 (the game whos forums we're in) has far more to the combat than twitch skills. Even on a very basic level.
That's accurate. PvP gear has it's own look, each dungeon has it's own look, etc. Level 80 gear is all comparable in stats. You can even transfer those level 80 stats onto level 20 gear if you like how that looks better.
With everything being able to use transmutation stones COMBINED with the OUTRAGOUS Dye system, it further diminishes the cash shop. people can make all the gear from lvl 1 all the way up to lvl 80 their preferenced gear.
Results:
1) no more clones.
2) everyone can look super unique
3) an entire games worth of equipment is suddenly possibily end game. Great for one like me who does not want to look like a glowing power ranger rainbow balloon at lvl 80.
I want my character to look like Nyan Cat after a platefull of special brownies.
I'm way late to this, but in case anyone hasn't said it:
When in WvW, whatever level you are "really" in the world, you'll collect gear and XP for that level. So while you'll be a "fake 80" in the mists, you'll still be REALLY leveling your character, finding loot for your character, and getting XP that's appropriate for your level. You can effectively play level 1-80 in the Mists and never touch the outside world, but you'd be missing a lot.
Try to be excellent to everyone you meet. You never know what someone else has seen or endured.
Comments
I may be wrong, but thought that was how it worked with your weapons. I will have to read up on it again. If I'm wrong, please ignore my post.
Unless I misunderstood, that seems to contradict what I've read elsewhere.
I believe that's only true in WvW, in tournaments everything is unlocked.
It's true for WvW, you have to learn the skills. For competitive PvP however everything is unlocked.
Oderint, dum metuant.
No twitch - if you thinking mashing the keys will win in GW1 - go play some GvG there - you get ass handed to you on a platter. As I said, please play the game betfore you espouse your 'brilliant - NOT' observations.
It is how you choose your skills and the synergy between them that counts - if you have skills that have no synery all the twitch you have will nto win you a PvP match in GW1.
Yeah, I was wrong. Sorry about that.
Nor has the OP did any research, watched vids and read reviews before starting this topic.
"My Fantasy is having two men at once...
One Cooking and One Cleaning!"
---------------------------
"A good man can make you feel sexy,
strong and able to take on the whole world...
oh sorry...that's wine...wine does that..."
I agree that FPS games take more skill than any MMO battleground out there, although that isn't my biggest issue with MMO battlegrounds. My biggest issue is that, other than the fantasy type skills you can choose, MMO battlegrounds are inferior in almost every objectively viewed feature. For starters:
1) FPS battlegrounds support more players than most MMO battlegrounds. Very ironic, but FPS battlegrounds are more "massive"
2) FPS battlegrounds have many different range tactics: melee, short, medium, and long (even across the map). MMO battlegrounds it is only melee or short range.
3) FPS battlegrounds are 3 dimensional in tactics. There are buildins with multiple levels where you could have snipers on the roof, on the floor, etc. There are stairway battles, hallway battles, open field battles, etc. In an MMO battlefield, it is basically a 2D battlefield (with illusion of 3D) with most tactics being open field tactics
4) FPS battlegrounds have diverse materials. There are glass surfaces which can break and are transparent. You have translucent surfaces, you have opaque surfaces. Some surfaces stop damage altogother, some mitigate it, others are basically like paper and only hide you not protect you. They also have different sound patterns. Different footsteps based on surface. Stealth is actually obtained via careful play not a "Invisible button" like in an MMO battlefield. MMO battlefields have none of the tactics of using the environment
5) FPS battlegrounds are much more dynamic. There are small intervals where a helicopter might be patrolling, either for you or against you. Your enemy might have radar out or maybe you do or maybe both do. In all the previous scenarios, your tactics must dynamically change to fit the scenario. And this just scratches the surface. There are many other dynamic scenarios that pop up making tactics very emergent. MMO battlegrounds on the other hand, purely static
6) FPS battlegrounds are much more diverse. Usually at least 15 maps and at least 15 or so gametypes. And each and every map can support each and every gametype. In an MMO battelground, you are LUCKY if there are 7 maps and usually each map supports ONE gametype
7) Graphics and sound are far superior and more important in a FPS battleground over an MMO battleground. In an FPS you actually need to listen to know where your enemies are.
8) In addition to all the more advanced tactics in an FPS the above 7 points illustrate, FPS games also require skill in aiming. MMO battlegrounds are tab-target where twitch skill is meaningless.
I could really go on and on and on, but the fact is anybody that plays MMOs for the battelgrounds and esport are just wasting their time. FPS is far superior in every single way other than if you want to choose "fantasy" type skills. But you are giving up a lot for that. In fact, you are giving up in every possible way just to get the fantasy skills. Unless you just like the uber-simplified environments, uber simplified tactics, and uber simplified everything else.
MMO battlegrounds are basically where FPS battlegrounds were around 10 years ago. It is pathetic.
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
Unless I misunderstood, that seems to contradict what I've read elsewhere.
It's true for WvW, you have to learn the skills. For competitive PvP however everything is unlocked.
Ahh, OK, thanks
@ op please just don't play the game, thanks
Umm don't think you actually played GW1. there was ZERO advantage to pve char in pvp, infact they are kind of at a disadvantage since they can't customise armour/weapons to whatever they want, on the fly.
The only reason people used pve chars in pvp is to show off cool looking armour/weapons/pets they have grinded. which is how it should be in a competitive game, screw the OP and his mindset they can go play every other mmo and win based on grind aka "progression".
My blog:
Meh they need to remove pvp gear or I won't bother with this game, I am so sick of games having 2 diff gear sets one for pve 1 for pvp, its stupid, everyone should have to raid for their gear, this ruins pvp in so many mmo's its not funny. Guess thats strike 2 in GW2's coffin, one more and I won't bother with it myself. They need to keep all gear to be pve raids so it preserves some sense of balance, otherwise it alieantes pve players from trying pvp, look at dark age fo camelot, it worked perfectly in that game, why do all these newer mmo's insist on having special pvp earnable gear and and such? Then again, not that I expect a decent mmo to come out ever again personally till wow dies. Tired of these casual mmo's where you can hit cap without any player interaction its kinda stupid, its supposed to be a mmorpg, its supposed to be social and have grouping, it is not supposed to bascally be a glorified single player game till cap.
Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:
A. Proven right (if something bad happens)
or
B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)
Either way, you can't lose! Try it out sometime!
No big deal, it's easy to get wires crossed when there are so many different elements involved in a single game. It's going to take awhile to get used to it all.
Oderint, dum metuant.
Then you're in luck there isn't any pvp gearTechnically there is actually. PvPers can buy gear with glory. It's just that it has the same stats as PvE end gear.
I don't think you have to "raid" for your gear either tho. infact I don't think there are technically raids like in other mmos, nor is pvp gear based anyway.
if its like gw1 and I suspect it is all classes will have the same level on gear in pvp. of course you can customise it, maybe you have to pve to get some of the customisations but they are not nessarily more powerful, thats something I heard in a video anyway.
My blog:
That's accurate. PvP gear has it's own look, each dungeon has it's own look, etc. Level 80 gear is all comparable in stats. You can even transfer those level 80 stats onto level 20 gear if you like how that looks better.
Oderint, dum metuant.
It's really an amazing system.
Competitive PvP - From level 1, everyone can have fun and be equal. It's about skill, being balanced and as fun and fast and frantic complementing classic GW, first person action games and fun fast gameplay sessions.
People can unlock more cool looking gear but it won't make a impact, because it's already max.
WvWvW - This is made to be unbalanced, and unfair. Thats the tag line. And Balthazar said; "let there be zerg" and thus red team was swarmped.
In WvW everything from PvE carries over. your gear, skills, level, everything. And you can lvl to 80 if you so desire.
So you get best of both worlds. In fact it's better than both worlds, because one of them contains 3 worlds, so hah!
Thirdly, you in competitive PvP you make the e-sport games - you can set is up as 1 vs 1. or all the way up to 10 vs 10. Having a 10 vs 10 is a pretty big battle to set up. you can make that into a G v G. You can make that your tournament format. you can set a password, and invite friends(or enemies).
With everything being able to use transmutation stones COMBINED with the OUTRAGOUS Dye system, it further diminishes the cash shop. people can make all the gear from lvl 1 all the way up to lvl 80 their preferenced gear.
Results:
1) no more clones.
2) everyone can look super unique
3) an entire games worth of equipment is suddenly possibily end game. Great for one like me who does not want to look like a glowing power ranger rainbow balloon at lvl 80.
I want my character to look like Nyan Cat after a platefull of special brownies.
Re: SWTOR
"Remember, remember - Kakk says 'December.'"
So can I assume you don't have any chaos items in GW1, since that would perfectly fit your glowing power ranger rainbow balloon analogy
Lotta broad generalization there. Comments in cyan.
Enjoy playing some other elitist game that caters to your needs. No sense in making a post that you dislike the game. I know it suprises me too but GW2 isnt for everyone *gasp*.
Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online
Playing: GW2
Waiting on: TESO
Next Flop: Planetside 2
Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
While you do make some valid points, you also completely failed to follow my point (yes there was a message under that picture). You are in the GW2 forums, not the general MMO forums, please READ up on the game before posting.
Almost none of your points apply to this game.
The only points that are really valid in this context, are 1, 6, & 7 (8 is debateable). Furthermore, outside of this game, there ARE FPS MMOs. Not a ton, but you have planetside, APB, and soon to be planetside 2 / TSW. And while graphically they may not be as good as Crysis, it's not a huge gamebreaker for most people. Furthermore, it's been known for years now that it's impossible to make an MMO with the same graphics of a FPS without instancing the crap out of it. FPS games have dedicated servers for each game, and most have more localized maps. MMOs do not. So while your battleground may only have ~10 people in it, the server is supporting more than 10 players in OTHER battlegrounds. Kind of a big difference.
Anyway, back to GW2: There is many different tactics (melee, short range, long range, traps, across-the-map (trebuchets)), there are 3 dimensional tactics (not on par w/ a game like BF3, but lets get realistic here), there are diverse materials (glass, water, stone, fabric, wood, etc.), there are dynamic elements, and there is a certain degree of aiming. All of this can be seen in any of the plethora of Battle of Khylo videos, not to mention some of the WvW videos in which a siege is taking place.
The reason I posted was not to point out that FPS games take more skill that just twitch (although I do agree with you on that), it was more because doing even a small amount of research into the combat of this game shows how GW2 (the game whos forums we're in) has far more to the combat than twitch skills. Even on a very basic level.
Made me think of this ^^
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diRurYCvngg
gw1 had, it they could only participate in pvp. I see no problem here, rather a good thing to increase competitiveness.
I'm way late to this, but in case anyone hasn't said it:
When in WvW, whatever level you are "really" in the world, you'll collect gear and XP for that level. So while you'll be a "fake 80" in the mists, you'll still be REALLY leveling your character, finding loot for your character, and getting XP that's appropriate for your level. You can effectively play level 1-80 in the Mists and never touch the outside world, but you'd be missing a lot.
Try to be excellent to everyone you meet. You never know what someone else has seen or endured.
My Review Manifesto
Follow me on Twitter if you dare.