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WvW cash shop advantage explained

VowOfSilenceVowOfSilence wheePosts: 575Member

Looks like few people are aware of the problem with WvW, or they just like to pretend that it doesn't exist (which seems to be the typical fanboy reaction these days).

 

So, the real problem is: gems -> gold -> influence -> WvW advantages.

 

Ingame footage (at 1:50): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zi6GAbVATOA&hd=1

Discussion: Tales of Tyria #24: Gems to Gemonade (starting at 1:01:00): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAtXE3AftX8

 

Maybe this will be in the final game, maybe it won't. Right now, it's in, and Anet made no statement regarding that feature.

So, yeah... stop denying that the cash shop gives WvW advantages. Time to enter the next stage of denial: Getting hyped over WvW cash advantages, because they are actually the bestest thing that ever happened to MMOs! I mean... if they weren't, then GW2 wouldn't have them, am i right?

Hype train -> Reality

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Comments

  • RizelStarRizelStar Raleigh, NCPosts: 2,773Member
    Lol whooooshh to infinity and beyond over that skull.

    I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.

    I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.

    P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)

    Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.

  • EliandalEliandal Chelmsford, ONPosts: 796Member

      What about this couldn't be posted in the OTHER - pretty much exact same - topic?

  • YamotaYamota LondonPosts: 6,620Member

    I have never played a game with cash shop which was not at some degree Pay to Win. Even League of Legends is, to some degree, as it allows for buying boosts which gives access to runes faster than someone else who does not buy these boosts. It is not significant but on some level it does help person A beat person B and as such is Pay to Win.

    GW 2 will not be different, at some level it will be Pay to Win because selling ONLY cosmetical items is a myth. They always claim it to be the case but then always you have exp boosts and equipments which does give you some degree of advantage over someone who does not buy those.

  • romanator0romanator0 Glendora, CAPosts: 2,382Member

    I'll just repost what I said in the other thread.

     

    http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Supply

    Doesn't matter how much gold you have. You can't do shit without supply. Do your research next time.

     

    I also find it extremely hilarious that people saying an in-game boost that must be bought with in-game currency is pay to win. I assume you're also going to say that top level gear bought from the AH is pay to win also? Maybe crafted gear is pay to win too?

    image

  • gainesvilleggainesvilleg Gainesville, FLPosts: 1,053Member

    Originally posted by VowOfSilence

    Looks like few people are aware of the problem with WvW, or they just like to pretend that it doesn't exist (which seems to be the typical fanboy reaction these days).

     

    So, the real problem is: gems -> gold -> influence -> WvW advantages.

     

    Ingame footage (at 1:50): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zi6GAbVATOA&hd=1

    Discussion: Tales of Tyria #24: Gems to Gemonade (starting at 1:01:00): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAtXE3AftX8

     

    Maybe this will be in the final game, maybe it won't. Right now, it's in, and Anet made no statement regarding that feature.

    So, yeah... stop denying that the cash shop gives WvW advantages. Time to enter the next stage of denial: Getting hyped over WvW cash advantages, because they are actually the bestest thing that ever happened to MMOs! I mean... if they weren't, then GW2 wouldn't have them, am i right?

    Yes, those who actually have knowledge of the cash shop and are honest have pointed out these RvRvR advantages before.  It is frustrating to debate with the starry-eyed Anet fans as they very frequently change every cash shop discussion to "Who cares about EXP boosters" when the reality is EXP boosters are the least of the problems.  There are many many problems with this cash shop, some of them pay2win (like the RvRvR advantages) and some just crass F2P items ("mystic keys" is the most repulsive concept in my opinion).

    But be prepared for the GW2 uber-fanboy defense which goes in 3 stages:

    1) "You don't know what you are talking about you are ignorant"

    if you then prove you DO know what you are talking about the uber-fanboy defense goes to phase 2:

    2) "Well, its just in beta it might change"

    If you point out that beta often represents production functionality, the uber-fanboy goes to step 3:

    3) "You are a troll and I am reporting you to the admins for trolling"

     

    So, now that you have passed phase 1 the phase 2 responses will begin.  Keep up the debate, and you will be labled troll.

    GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
    1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
    2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements

  • botrytisbotrytis In Flux, MIPosts: 2,567Member

    Originally posted by Yamota

    I have never played a game with cash shop which was not at some degree Pay to Win. Even League of Legends is, to some degree, as it allows for buying boosts which gives access to runes faster than someone else who does not buy these boosts. It is not significant but on some level it does help person A beat person B and as such is Pay to Win.

    GW 2 will not be different, at some level it will be Pay to Win because selling ONLY cosmetical items is a myth. They always claim it to be the case but then always you have exp boosts and equipments which does give you some degree of advantage over someone who does not buy those.

    Then you have not played GW1. The most items in the Cash Shop there WERE cosmetic only - others were character slots, more storage, etc. Nothing that would be considered P2W - do your research befoer you post.

    You know what they say about the word ASS-U-ME - 'nuff said.

     

    image

    "In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
    by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

  • KuppaKuppa Boulder, COPosts: 3,292Member Uncommon

    I don't know bout you folks but Im getting a mortgage loan on my house to own some noobs, after these guys opened my eyes to the amaizing evidence that GW2 is P2W. Cya in game nooobs!!!! image

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  • RivalenRivalen TaviraPosts: 503Member

    The truth from all of this is that Influence should not at any time be increased by using gold.

    It's kind of obvious.

  • WolvardsWolvards grants pass, ORPosts: 650Member

    Later on in the vid, they also say that they are "pretty" sure that

    1. only one buff active at a time,

    2. Those guild buffs only work at your guilds keep,

    3. each guild can only hold 1 (ONE) Keep OR Tower

    4. This is assuming you have a benifactor, or some rich dude spending upwards of $100 dollars a day to keep up ALL buffs at that ONE keep, which at endgame those buffs are what? 5%? so you have 20 people in the guild defending this keep, fully buffed, and i take 50 people to take this keep, how far will 5% go?

    5. i got all this from that same video

     

    Correct me if i'm wrong because i don't want a misunderstanding of the game, but it seems you just watched that 1 minute clip and took it from there, continue watching and they show the counter-part to that argument.

    The "Youtube Pro": Someone who watches video's on said subject, and obviously has a full understanding of what is being said about such subject.

  • WolvardsWolvards grants pass, ORPosts: 650Member

    Originally posted by VowOfSilence

    Discussion: Tales of Tyria #24: Gems to Gemonade (starting at 1:01:00): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAtXE3AftX8

     

     

    Watch from 1:05:00 to say 1:06:00

    The "Youtube Pro": Someone who watches video's on said subject, and obviously has a full understanding of what is being said about such subject.

  • Arachneus1Arachneus1 Naugatuck, CTPosts: 248Member

    There is no pay to win unless players want it to be!

    The players control the market of how much gold is worth 1 gem.  This is a simple trade and there needs to be a buyer and a seller.  If no one wants gems for the cosmetic items, then the player looking for gold gets nothing by selling gems!

    AGAIN players decide if its this "pay to win" that people are afraid of.  And even if there is a trade, that means theres a new poor guy in gold and a new rich guy in gold -> It all balances in the end, what is the deal here again?

  • st4t1ckst4t1ck jonesboro, GAPosts: 600Member Uncommon

     

    Ok you win, Gw2 is your definition of p2w, congratulations. Now follow your beliefs and dont play the game. good day sir(s)

  • asianbboy101asianbboy101 what, MNPosts: 82Member

    i love it when people play the semantic's game.

  • snowytechnasnowytechna PunePosts: 185Member

    Originally posted by Yamota

    I have never played a game with cash shop which was not at some degree Pay to Win. Even League of Legends is, to some degree, as it allows for buying boosts which gives access to runes faster than someone else who does not buy these boosts. It is not significant but on some level it does help person A beat person B and as such is Pay to Win.

    GW 2 will not be different, at some level it will be Pay to Win because selling ONLY cosmetical items is a myth. They always claim it to be the case but then always you have exp boosts and equipments which does give you some degree of advantage over someone who does not buy those.

    What is this I dont even... In LOL by the time you are level 30 and ready to play draft pick you should have more than enough IP to fill 2 rune pages with the best runes and buy 2 6300 IP heroes. How do I know this? I know this because I have done it. So when pvp really starts mattering, that is level 30 draft pick, I am at an equal standing with everyone else who is playing that mode so there is no P2W whatsoever. Please take your whining somewhere else. 

    GW2 is the same, you can buy xp boosts till you reach level 80 but sooner or later everyone is going to reach level 80 and then everyone will again be on an equal standing so your point is moot again. And the best thing is even without xp boosts you can reach level 80 in a month so I really dont see what the big deal is. And what equipment are you talking about? Could you please give some examples? I bet you can't because there aren't any. 

    You lost all credibility when you called LOL P2W. F2P cosmetic microtransactions are the future and I am happy about it. This way the barrier of entry is set really low and I dont have to spend 50$+ to just test a game. Heck even DOTA 2 is most probably going to be F2P since the majority of the DOTA playing population is SEA and China and F2P model reigns supreme in these regions.

     

     

  • Skarecrow7Skarecrow7 Oshkosh, WIPosts: 339Member Uncommon

    Oh boy.. ANOTHER cash shop thread that repeates what is in every other cash shop thread, letting us all know how dumb we are for wanting this game. And look, because the haters hate.. gw2 thread is on mmorpg.com front page.  OP, now you need ot make a thread letting all of us little people know that we are stupid for hyping up this game. I mean, look, your thread is front page, it is about gw2, the hype is INSANE!

    image

  • WolvardsWolvards grants pass, ORPosts: 650Member

    Originally posted by st4t1ck

    Originally posted by Wolvards


    Originally posted by VowOfSilence

    Discussion: Tales of Tyria #24: Gems to Gemonade (starting at 1:01:00): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAtXE3AftX8

     

     

    Watch from 1:05:00 to say 1:06:00

    Ok you win, Gw2 is your definition of p2w, congratulations. Now follow your beliefs and dont play the game. good day sir(s)

    Hold on there mister, i do NOT think it is P2W, i'm trying to show people that it is not, just watch the video from 1 hour to 1 hour 7 minutes, it shows both side of the argument, i'm trying to prove it's not P2W without going the fanboi route

    The "Youtube Pro": Someone who watches video's on said subject, and obviously has a full understanding of what is being said about such subject.

  • gainesvilleggainesvilleg Gainesville, FLPosts: 1,053Member

    Originally posted by Wolvards

    Originally posted by VowOfSilence

    Discussion: Tales of Tyria #24: Gems to Gemonade (starting at 1:01:00): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAtXE3AftX8

     

     

    Watch from 1:05:00 to say 1:06:00

    Well, if you watch that clip it is a few guys trying to convince themselves that, although you can pay real money for advantages, it doesn't matter because;

    1) The advantages are "small."  But then they also said it might help you survive "2 or 3 more hits" which in PVP is a HUGE advantage between balanced players

    2) They say if you don't like it "Bring more people or avoid that keep" which basically is again admitting the advantage

     

    I'm afraid that clip just makes it more and more clear, even amongst the uber-fans who were rationalizing this, that it is indeed pay2win.  You can argue on the size of the advantage, but nobody who knows and understands the system says there is NO advantage.

    GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
    1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
    2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements

  • VolkonVolkon Sterling, VAPosts: 3,788Member

    Let's play a little gold-advantaged WvW, shall we? OK, you bought ONE BILLION GOLD! So what do you with that investment? You buy a seige golem blueprint. You run to the supply depot in the fort, grab your ten supply, start building the golem with that ten. OK, you need more. Get ten more supply, add to golem. Rinse, repeat. You almost have it built when someone else adds that last ten supply, completing the golem. They then hop in and saunter off into battle.

     

    At least you still have your billion gold.

     

    Oderint, dum metuant.
    image

  • PigozzPigozz CPosts: 842Member

    0:13

    Earn influence by logging every day, playing events, dungeons, pvp and other activities with guild members

    .

    .

    .

    Now where the F**** you found out you can actually BUY influence with gold??

    Tell me please

    MMOs played chronologically:
    Runescape,Lineage II, WoW,Tabula Rasa, AoC,Eve Online,Guild Wars, Rift(beta only),SWTOR(beta only),Star Trek Online
    Most fun: Tabula Rasa
    image

  • UnlightUnlight Ottawa, ONPosts: 2,540Member

    Topic is new and refreshing.

    Responses are surprising and thought provoking.

    Thread should not be locked.

  • Tawn47Tawn47 LincolnPosts: 512Member

    Originally posted by VowOfSilence

    Looks like few people are aware of the problem with WvW, or they just like to pretend that it doesn't exist (which seems to be the typical fanboy reaction these days).

     

    So, the real problem is: gems -> gold -> influence -> WvW advantages.

     

    Ingame footage (at 1:50): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zi6GAbVATOA&hd=1

    Discussion: Tales of Tyria #24: Gems to Gemonade (starting at 1:01:00): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAtXE3AftX8

     

    Maybe this will be in the final game, maybe it won't. Right now, it's in, and Anet made no statement regarding that feature.

    So, yeah... stop denying that the cash shop gives WvW advantages. Time to enter the next stage of denial: Getting hyped over WvW cash advantages, because they are actually the bestest thing that ever happened to MMOs! I mean... if they weren't, then GW2 wouldn't have them, am i right?

    Well done for actually bringing up a somewhat legitimate point regarding the cash shops.  Too many are confusing the debate with talk of exp boosts and purchasing siege blueprints - which is plain stupid.

    With regard to your argument, the point really is how much of an advantage does influence give?  Is this a game-changing advantage that will make it feel like you have to purchase influence in order to compete?  (I mean, that is the problem with Pay-to-win...  you feel sub-par if you dont spend real money)

    Not withstanding the fact that you have to find a buyer for said gems, as far as I am aware influence can only affect the keep your guild owns.  I am also under the impression that the WvWvW buffs you can get through this are not very powerful.

    If you can provide some good evidence that purchasing influence will be rampant and game changing - im all ears.  At this stage though I think you need to calm down and be rational about this.  Stop making this a war between fanboys and haters and instead lets have a proper discussion about whether this is something which needs to be brought to the attention of arenanet.

  • gainesvilleggainesvilleg Gainesville, FLPosts: 1,053Member

    Originally posted by Pigozz

    0:13

    Earn influence by logging every day, playing events, dungeons, pvp and other activities with guild members

    .

    .

    .

    Now where the F**** you found out you can actually BUY influence with gold??

    Tell me please

    By buying a round of drinks with gold.  Actually go to the clip the OP linked and you will see.  No need to rage now.  You can indeed buy influence in the current beta.

    GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
    1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
    2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements

  • st4t1ckst4t1ck jonesboro, GAPosts: 600Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Wolvards

    Originally posted by st4t1ck


    Originally posted by Wolvards


    Originally posted by VowOfSilence

    Discussion: Tales of Tyria #24: Gems to Gemonade (starting at 1:01:00): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAtXE3AftX8

     

     

    Watch from 1:05:00 to say 1:06:00

    Ok you win, Gw2 is your definition of p2w, congratulations. Now follow your beliefs and dont play the game. good day sir(s)

    Hold on there mister, i do NOT think it is P2W, i'm trying to show people that it is not, just watch the video from 1 hour to 1 hour 7 minutes, it shows both side of the argument, i'm trying to prove it's not P2W without going the fanboi route

    sorry bout that, i quoted the wrong post, if you scroll up i deleted the quote before you even posted :) my bad for the misunderstanding though.  im just of all the treads,  time to move along if you dont like it post in one of the million threads already there for it.

  • WolvardsWolvards grants pass, ORPosts: 650Member

    Originally posted by gainesvilleg

    Originally posted by Wolvards


    Originally posted by VowOfSilence

    Discussion: Tales of Tyria #24: Gems to Gemonade (starting at 1:01:00): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAtXE3AftX8

     

     

    Watch from 1:05:00 to say 1:06:00

    Well, if you watch that clip it is a few guys trying to convince themselves that, although you can pay real money for advantages, it doesn't matter because;

    1) The advantages are "small."  But then they also said it might help you survive "2 or 3 more hits" which in PVP is a HUGE advantage between balanced players

    2) They say if you don't like it "Bring more people or avoid that keep" which basically is again admitting the advantage

     

    I'm afraid that clip just makes it more and more clear, even amongst the uber-fans who were rationalizing this, that it is indeed pay2win.  You can argue on the size of the advantage, but nobody who knows and understands the system says there is NO advantage.

    You have an opinion, i have an opinion, you heard the same thing i heard and took it a different way, there is no way you will convince me there is a "real" advantage, sure there is a 5% bonus for one trait at one keep for one guild, whoopie, and there is no way i will convince you other wise, so how about you don't but the game, and i will, done, no need to start a bickermatch that you will just blatantly say i'm wrong, because you only take half of what i'm saying into context? sound good?

    The "Youtube Pro": Someone who watches video's on said subject, and obviously has a full understanding of what is being said about such subject.

  • VolkonVolkon Sterling, VAPosts: 3,788Member

    Originally posted by gainesvilleg

    Originally posted by Pigozz

    0:13

    Earn influence by logging every day, playing events, dungeons, pvp and other activities with guild members

    .

    .

    .

    Now where the F**** you found out you can actually BUY influence with gold??

    Tell me please

    By buying a round of drinks with gold.  Actually go to the clip the OP linked and you will see.  No need to rage now.  You can indeed buy influence in the current beta.

    I remember seeing this in the vids too. Basically, you can buy buffs that affects the immediate area of the one fort, keep, supply depot, whatever your guild claims, giving you a little home field advantage in WvW. Of course, they also forget to mention that if no one is defending your keep the buffs are wasted and you lose it anyhow, or an undermanned keep will still fall as well.

    Oderint, dum metuant.
    image

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