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In WvW, siege weapons cost gold. Gems buyers have a WvW advantage

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  • RizelStarRizelStar Raleigh, NCPosts: 2,773Member

    Oh well  I guess more assumptions can be made now lol. [Mod Edit]

    Great.

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  • L0C0ManL0C0Man Puerto OrdazPosts: 1,065Member Uncommon

    As a way to put into perspective the costs on WvW.

    According to a thread on GW2Guru.com (Someone is complaining that the respec cost is too high), the respec cost will be 15 silver, on the same thread someone comments that it takes 20-30 mins to earn enough gold from trash loot for a respec in the beta (at low level and from world mob drops only, so probably at higher level you'll get more of it).

    By comparison, the siege weapons cost are roughly arrow cart or ballista 10s, catapult 12s, trebuchet 32s and siege golem 1g. Taking into account that the you're meant to still earn gold at the same rate in WvW than PvE (according to a Q&A on reddit, they intend to have WvW have the same rewards in loot and XP than regular PvE), and that it takes more than one person's worth of supply to build any of them (which has to be carried on foot from a captured keep or supply depot to the point of building), doesn't seem to me that the gold will actually be the main deterrent when it comes to building the siege weapons.

    I remember reading somewhere, but no idea where, that it takes about 100 supply to build a siege golem, and they move so slowly that doesn't really make sense to build one too far away from the target.

    Of course, all those numbers are based on the beta and on screenshots in the wiki, and aren't final until release.

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  • weiiiweiii SingaporePosts: 11Member

    Originally posted by Betakodo

    Originally posted by st4t1ck

    who's to say you dont die during the slow as all hell walk all the way to the tower.  who's to say you own a resource camp around the tower you want to seige.  who's to say there isnt fighting at the resource camp itself?

    It will take many non-gundams to destroy one gundam pilot in a siege golem! Who's to say the siege golem will not be part of a gem buyers elite club? Who's to say the resource camp is yours? Who's to say the sky won't fall on us?

    Seems to me you have already made up you mind fine. Just dont play the game since its so disadvantage to you. Anet will be fine without all those people that are so against the cs.

     

  • BillMurphyBillMurphy Managing Editor Berea, OHPosts: 2,367MMORPG.COM Staff Uncommon
    Originally posted by L0C0Man

    They also said that you can't carry more than 10 supply on you, and that any siege weapon (the golem is supposed to be the more expensive) will cost more supply than what a single person can carry.
    As for the price of the blueprints, no idea how expensive they are. This is a screenshot on the wiki:

    However no idea how easy/hard it is to get that kind of money in the game
     

     

    As someone who has played, you'll have that and more by level 3 or 4. Enough for at least one. So yeah, not expensive. And supply is the key, which is obtained in game only.

    Really an unfounded complaint.
  • evictonevicton Warren, PAPosts: 398Member

    Originally posted by BillMurphy

    Originally posted by L0C0Man

    They also said that you can't carry more than 10 supply on you, and that any siege weapon (the golem is supposed to be the more expensive) will cost more supply than what a single person can carry.

    As for the price of the blueprints, no idea how expensive they are. This is a screenshot on the wiki:

    However no idea how easy/hard it is to get that kind of money in the game

     

     

    As someone who has played, you'll have that and more by level 3 or 4. Enough for at least one. So yeah, not expensive. And supply is the key, which is obtained in game only. Really an unfounded complaint.

    Thanks for that info.

    Of course now someone is going to use this as proof a level 1 with gem gold has an advantage for nearly 3 levels when it comes to buying siege weapons blueprints with WvWvW.

     

  • Badgered86Badgered86 Denver, COPosts: 175Member

    Originally posted by Betakodo

    Prices - http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/File:Blueprints-ventor.png

    What's the next excuse? WvW isn't PvP so it doesn't have to be fair? Siege weapons can be used against players or the all mighty fort door. Hell, every gem buyer can buy the most expensive, and the only mobile siege weapon, the siege golem (A gundam!).

    For those that don't already know, you can buy gems in the cash shop, then trade them for gold with other players.

    Believe me, it gets much worse than this. Much, much worse.

  • Badgered86Badgered86 Denver, COPosts: 175Member

    Originally posted by evicton

    Originally posted by BillMurphy


    Originally posted by L0C0Man

    They also said that you can't carry more than 10 supply on you, and that any siege weapon (the golem is supposed to be the more expensive) will cost more supply than what a single person can carry.

    As for the price of the blueprints, no idea how expensive they are. This is a screenshot on the wiki:

    However no idea how easy/hard it is to get that kind of money in the game

     

     

    As someone who has played, you'll have that and more by level 3 or 4. Enough for at least one. So yeah, not expensive. And supply is the key, which is obtained in game only. Really an unfounded complaint.

    Thanks for that info.

    Of course now someone is going to use this as proof a level 1 with gem gold has an advantage for nearly 3 levels when it comes to buying siege weapons blueprints with WvWvW.

     

    There is no way you will end up with over a gold by level four.  I've played the game at an expo and the most you can hope to get by that level is about 15 silver.  I have no idea how long it takes to earn a gold piece.

  • BetakodoBetakodo Poor land, FLPosts: 338Member

    Originally posted by BillMurphy                                                                                                                                                  As someone who has played, you'll have that and more by level 3 or 4. Enough for at least one. So yeah, not expensive.

    Originally posted by L0C0Man

    According to a thread on GW2Guru.com (Someone is complaining that the respec cost is too high), the respec cost will be 15 silver, on the same thread someone comments that it takes 20-30 mins to earn enough gold from trash loot for a respec in the beta

    Yogscast youtube vid shows he makes 1 silver and around 23 bronze from defending the fort, for a gold medal event reward. And the 2nd quote.

  • ariboersmaariboersma Yankton, SDPosts: 1,802Member

    Originally posted by Betakodo

    Prices - http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/File:Blueprints-ventor.png

    What's the next excuse? WvW isn't PvP so it doesn't have to be fair? Siege weapons can be used against players or the all mighty fort door. Hell, every gem buyer can buy the most expensive, and the only mobile siege weapon, the siege golem (A gundam!).

    For those that don't already know, you can buy gems in the cash shop, then trade them for gold with other players.

    I just want to point out that in Lineage 2 the siege golems cost hundreds of thousands of adena per timeframe.. its been a very long time and I don't remember the summon time of it but you had to maintain it with crystals. Basically.. this cost is NOTHING and also you need supply which I saw at least one person mention.

    image

  • headphonesheadphones melbournePosts: 611Member

    Originally posted by Badgered86

    Originally posted by evicton


    Originally posted by BillMurphy


    Originally posted by L0C0Man

    They also said that you can't carry more than 10 supply on you, and that any siege weapon (the golem is supposed to be the more expensive) will cost more supply than what a single person can carry.

    As for the price of the blueprints, no idea how expensive they are. This is a screenshot on the wiki:

    However no idea how easy/hard it is to get that kind of money in the game

     

     

    As someone who has played, you'll have that and more by level 3 or 4. Enough for at least one. So yeah, not expensive. And supply is the key, which is obtained in game only. Really an unfounded complaint.

    Thanks for that info.

    Of course now someone is going to use this as proof a level 1 with gem gold has an advantage for nearly 3 levels when it comes to buying siege weapons blueprints with WvWvW.

     

    There is no way you will end up with over a gold by level four.  I've played the game at an expo and the most you can hope to get by that level is about 15 silver.  I have no idea how long it takes to earn a gold piece.

    i'd hope the other guy played longer than your expo time or i'm gonna want him to pull down his reviews.

  • evictonevicton Warren, PAPosts: 398Member

    Originally posted by Betakodo

    Originally posted by BillMurphy                                                                                                                                                  As someone who has played, you'll have that and more by level 3 or 4. Enough for at least one. So yeah, not expensive.

    Originally posted by L0C0Man

    According to a thread on GW2Guru.com (Someone is complaining that the respec cost is too high), the respec cost will be 15 silver, on the same thread someone comments that it takes 20-30 mins to earn enough gold from trash loot for a respec in the beta

    Yogscast youtube vid shows he makes 1 silver and around 23 bronze from defending the fort, for a gold medal event reward. And the 2nd quote.

    This actually concerns me much more then any siege weapons. If gold is that rare when they game go lives, that 15 silver takes 20-30 minutes. That will have massive rammifications of the game and the effect of gems for gold.

  • Badgered86Badgered86 Denver, COPosts: 175Member

    Originally posted by headphones

    Originally posted by Badgered86


    Originally posted by evicton


    Originally posted by BillMurphy


    Originally posted by L0C0Man

    They also said that you can't carry more than 10 supply on you, and that any siege weapon (the golem is supposed to be the more expensive) will cost more supply than what a single person can carry.

    As for the price of the blueprints, no idea how expensive they are. This is a screenshot on the wiki:

    However no idea how easy/hard it is to get that kind of money in the game

     

     

    As someone who has played, you'll have that and more by level 3 or 4. Enough for at least one. So yeah, not expensive. And supply is the key, which is obtained in game only. Really an unfounded complaint.

    Thanks for that info.

    Of course now someone is going to use this as proof a level 1 with gem gold has an advantage for nearly 3 levels when it comes to buying siege weapons blueprints with WvWvW.

     

    There is no way you will end up with over a gold by level four.  I've played the game at an expo and the most you can hope to get by that level is about 15 silver.  I have no idea how long it takes to earn a gold piece.

    i'd hope the other guy played longer than your expo time or i'm gonna want him to pull down his reviews.

    Watch some press footage.  You can find videos where people get all of 1-2 silver for a level 10 event.  You do the math.

  • headphonesheadphones melbournePosts: 611Member

    Originally posted by Badgered86

    Originally posted by headphones


    Originally posted by Badgered86


    Originally posted by evicton


    Originally posted by BillMurphy


    Originally posted by L0C0Man

    They also said that you can't carry more than 10 supply on you, and that any siege weapon (the golem is supposed to be the more expensive) will cost more supply than what a single person can carry.

    As for the price of the blueprints, no idea how expensive they are. This is a screenshot on the wiki:

    However no idea how easy/hard it is to get that kind of money in the game

     

     

    As someone who has played, you'll have that and more by level 3 or 4. Enough for at least one. So yeah, not expensive. And supply is the key, which is obtained in game only. Really an unfounded complaint.

    Thanks for that info.

    Of course now someone is going to use this as proof a level 1 with gem gold has an advantage for nearly 3 levels when it comes to buying siege weapons blueprints with WvWvW.

     

    There is no way you will end up with over a gold by level four.  I've played the game at an expo and the most you can hope to get by that level is about 15 silver.  I have no idea how long it takes to earn a gold piece.

    i'd hope the other guy played longer than your expo time or i'm gonna want him to pull down his reviews.

    Watch some press footage.  You can find videos where people get all of 1-2 silver for a level 10 event.  You do the math.

    i'm not good at math, and i don't hear anyone complaining about money. they seem to be buying blue items happily enough. watched the pvp one where they made their siege golems among other things, too. don't remember any of them complaining at the cost, so a gold can't mean all that much. and didn't hear any reviewers asking other reviewers to buy some gems off them so they could get the gold for stuff...

    let's face it, it's going to happen. it will be part of the economy. but anet's done a wonderful job of sneakily adding in "supply" to stem any advantage gold/gems will have over pvp. so, really, it's a big storm in a teacup.

  • QuenchsterQuenchster Monroe, MIPosts: 450Member

    Can't you obtain loot from WvW PvP? If you can, I wonder how much the gear will sell for.

  • RelGnRelGn halalaPosts: 494Member

    cant wait to see the flames on the forums once this crap is released

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  • megera23megera23 BurgasPosts: 239Member

    Originally posted by Homitu

    And once again, gem > gold transactions do not cause gold to magically materialize.  It simply transfers gold already generated in game from one player to another.  The overall gold pool for your server does not change at all.  Your server remains no more or less capable of purchasing siege weapons whether or not people on your realm purchase gold via gems.

    Also, even if this did somehow translate to an advantage (which it doesn't), there is no reason at all to think that one realm will have a significantly disproportionate number of gem > gold transactors compared to other realms.  There would be no discernable advantage on a realm by realm basis.  

     

    I think this needs to be reposted, since not many people here seem to have read it.

  • AIMonsterAIMonster Apopka, FLPosts: 2,059Member

    Originally posted by megera23

    Originally posted by Homitu

    And once again, gem > gold transactions do not cause gold to magically materialize.  It simply transfers gold already generated in game from one player to another.  The overall gold pool for your server does not change at all.  Your server remains no more or less capable of purchasing siege weapons whether or not people on your realm purchase gold via gems.

    Also, even if this did somehow translate to an advantage (which it doesn't), there is no reason at all to think that one realm will have a significantly disproportionate number of gem > gold transactors compared to other realms.  There would be no discernable advantage on a realm by realm basis.  

     

    I think this needs to be reposted, since not many people here seem to have read it.

    I don't think anyone is complaining about it on a realm by realm basis.  The advantage is on a player by player basis.  If gem to gold sellers control the majority of the gold then they control the majority of the seige weapons (especially golems) IF the golems are expensive enough.  It looks like it takes quite a bit of farming (going off just gold from events) to get enough to build a golem too.  If a player also has a choice between buying gems with gold, seige weapons, repair costs, and other gold sinks they are less likely to buy seige weapons where the players who sell gems for gold not only have more gold, but don't have to worry about buying gems for gold too, so they can freely spend gold on these seige weapons.

    Player A who uses the cash shop to sell gems for gold doesn't have to worry about the cost of seige weapons as much as Player B who doesn't buys those gems for gold.  Player A will get the full experience of the game being able to use seige weapons as he pleases, where Player B will have to make a serious decision and lose out on SOMETHING in order to afford the seige golem, thus Player A has a clear advantage over Player B.  This is of course assuming seige golems are actually expensive, especially at higher level, but we don't really have enough information about that yet to know.

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  • Skarecrow7Skarecrow7 Oshkosh, WIPosts: 339Member Uncommon

    If I farm enough gold to buy a gem in the market place, and then the person that sold that gem gets a golem blue print with that money, what would be the differnce if I instead of getting that gem, I bought a golem blue print myself with that money?  

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  • ZylaxxZylaxx Erlanger, KYPosts: 2,574Member

    Originally posted by romanator0

    http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Supply

    Doesn't matter how much gold you have. You can't do shit without supply. Do your research next time.

    LOL well said.

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  • TerrorizorTerrorizor Red Beer, ABPosts: 326Member

    So let me get this straight. If I log in the very moment that servers launch, and I jump straight into WvW before I actually have time to make any money, there might be somebody else there shortly after that has visited the cash shop, bought gems, traded them for gold and ended up with the blueprints to a seige weapon which might end up being used to sway the odds for the first 20 minutes of a 2 week long WvW match?!?! Sounds like a dealbreaker to me. I guess I'll just go back to freestyle concrete diving, at least it's not pay 2 win!!!

  • heartlessheartless Brooklyn, NYPosts: 4,993Member

    Originally posted by Magnum2103

    Originally posted by megera23


    Originally posted by Homitu

    And once again, gem > gold transactions do not cause gold to magically materialize.  It simply transfers gold already generated in game from one player to another.  The overall gold pool for your server does not change at all.  Your server remains no more or less capable of purchasing siege weapons whether or not people on your realm purchase gold via gems.

    Also, even if this did somehow translate to an advantage (which it doesn't), there is no reason at all to think that one realm will have a significantly disproportionate number of gem > gold transactors compared to other realms.  There would be no discernable advantage on a realm by realm basis.  

     

    I think this needs to be reposted, since not many people here seem to have read it.

    I don't think anyone is complaining about it on a realm by realm basis.  The advantage is on a player by player basis.  If gem to gold sellers control the majority of the gold then they control the majority of the seige weapons (especially golems) IF the golems are expensive enough.  It looks like it takes quite a bit of farming (going off just gold from events) to get enough to build a golem too.  If a player also has a choice between buying gems with gold, seige weapons, repair costs, and other gold sinks they are less likely to buy seige weapons where the players who sell gems for gold not only have more gold, but don't have to worry about buying gems for gold too, so they can freely spend gold on these seige weapons.

    Player A who uses the cash shop to sell gems for gold doesn't have to worry about the cost of seige weapons as much as Player B who doesn't buys those gems for gold.  Player A will get the full experience of the game being able to use seige weapons as he pleases, where Player B will have to make a serious decision and lose out on SOMETHING in order to afford the seige golem, thus Player A has a clear advantage over Player B.  This is of course assuming seige golems are actually expensive, especially at higher level, but we don't really have enough information about that yet to know.

    Personally, it's not really an issue. I'm not competing against players on my realm and if they have an easier time buying siege weapons, more power to them. It will be beneficial for everyone from my realm as we're all working together to win.

    One thing to consider about pricing is that most players who participated in WvW were low levels. I think the highest level content was 20 something and there was an NPC who could bump your character up to level 30 if you wanted to run the dungeon.

    As brand new characters, they had very limited funds. In WoW, for example 1gold is a lot for a brand new level 20. For a level 85, 1 gold is not even noticable. Once the game is a few months old and a lot of people are at the level cap, 1 gold for a siege golem will become meaningless. It's also important to note that siege weapons are situational and are not an automatic "IWIN" button and since they do require supplies, which can at times better be used to reenforce your keep walls and gates, it really becomes a nonissue.

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  • heartlessheartless Brooklyn, NYPosts: 4,993Member

    Originally posted by Terrorizor

    So let me get this straight. If I log in the very moment that servers launch, and I jump straight into WvW before I actually have time to make any money, there might be somebody else there shortly after that has visited the cash shop, bought gems, traded them for gold and ended up with the blueprints to a seige weapon which might end up being used to sway the odds for the first 20 minutes of a 2 week long WvW match?!?! Sounds like a dealbreaker to me. I guess I'll just go back to freestyle concrete diving, at least it's not pay 2 win!!!

    You can only trade gems to other players, not NPCs or any game systems. In other words, if you jump into WvW without making any money, a person who bought gems will not be able to buy that blueprint since there will be no one to trade gems with.

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  • sk8chalifsk8chalif Montreal, QCPosts: 599Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by heartless

    Originally posted by Terrorizor

    So let me get this straight. If I log in the very moment that servers launch, and I jump straight into WvW before I actually have time to make any money, there might be somebody else there shortly after that has visited the cash shop, bought gems, traded them for gold and ended up with the blueprints to a seige weapon which might end up being used to sway the odds for the first 20 minutes of a 2 week long WvW match?!?! Sounds like a dealbreaker to me. I guess I'll just go back to freestyle concrete diving, at least it's not pay 2 win!!!

    You can only trade gems to other players, not NPCs or any game systems. In other words, if you jump into WvW without making any money, a person who bought gems will not be able to buy that blueprint since there will be no one to trade gems with.

    The gold have to come from player. so that mean no,

    people need to farm gold somehow first , u cant sell gem if no1 have gold,

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  • FlawSGIFlawSGI Woodstock, GAPosts: 1,379Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by reignjuste

    cant wait to see the flames on the forums once this crap is released

     Your post history shows you have no love for GW2 yet you frequent our forums with the same opiinion so I guess I should TY for your participation even though you offer nothing to any discussion that I have seen. I also saw that your knowledge on what  agood game is and isn't lead you to buy the SWTOR CE and look how that turned out for you? 

    I'll counter your negativity with saying I have played it and I highly doubt it will turn out the way you see it. You seem to think WOW is the greatest in a previouse post yet I can tell you that if you honestly beleive than any game aside from your beloved Titan are going to fail then I feel bad for you.  

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  • NaralNaral Solway, MNPosts: 751Member Uncommon

    I did not read through the pages of posts, but I have a point to ask about, or make as the case may be.

    First of all, I am not a huge fan of any cash shop, but fail, really, to see where the GW2 cash shop makes any difference to game play. But for argument sake, let's say it did.

    Let's say, someone on your server buys a metric fuckton of gems, sells them all and gets stupid rich. He has become the Bill Gates of your server, awash in gold.

    Now, he goes to WvWvW and buys every man, woman and child a siege golem, hell, he buys them two. Assuming you can get the supplies (which is pretty much equal on all fronts anyway) you will have a shitload of siege golems, and probably kick some butt.

    The thing is, he or she is on your side, not that this unlikely scenario can come to pass. If he is competing on your server, he is still working WITH you. 

    Okay, okay, I know what you are thinking. Someone on another server did that, and poor me. Well, two things. First, what is stop anyone on your server from doing the same thing? Second of all, all you have to do to make those blueprints irrelevant is get your side to play better than their side, the superiority of which will keep them from getting the supplies to activate those blueprints. Skills even out in WvWvW, so do equipment. There has never BEEN a game with a more even footing in pvp that still dares to call itself an MMORPG.

    That said, all this is kind of a moot point anyway. The supply issue pretty much limits how many siege engines will be running around, not blueprints. IMO blueprints are really just a gold sink to get gold out of the game.

    And all this comes from a guy, who if you look at my post history, does not really like the cash shop, and has even been pretty critical of the game. I am no fanboi, but this argument seems silly.

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