True justice from CCP would be permanently ban this guy from the game.
Sieze all assests associated with GS.
Disband the corp.
Interestingly enough, I could see the power struggle that ensued after that to fill that vacuum as good for the game.
Why would you disband an 8000 man alliance because the CEO said something stupid while drunk? Would you disband the United States if Obama made fun of autistic kids? (The sovereignty mechanics make GS essentially a nation because it holds territory in the persistent game world).
Man, he used an official CCP platform to call for the in game harassment of someone with mental health issues with the express purpose of driving him to commit suicide, this was publically broadcast as part of the CCP coverage of their official event. I am not really sure how it can A. Be justifiable. B. not be against their catch all ToS or C. In CCP's interests (especially with their new partners such as Sony's publicly stated policies on cyber bullying) to keep this clusterfuck rolling down the hill gaining bad publicity.
Alex Gianturco, the Mittani, needs to step up and step down fast.
Agreed. There has to be consequences for this kind of behaviour as it is far beyond hardcore PvP behaviour. Cyber bullying is something real, one that has shown to lead to suicide in some cases. And knowingly doing it against someone who is allegedly suicidal already?
There is no excuse really... at the very least the Goons, or whatever these idiots are called, need to stay away from this guy.
I take it you've never visited the Something Awful.com forums to gain an understanding that he'll be considered a hero to the Goons, not a villian.
And as far as EVE goes, likely he controls the real life cash assets of the Goonswarm (which are very considerable), so will be hard to depose him.
Don't see how any of that is relevant. He did that was simply put wrong, un-ethical and against the TOS. For this there should be consequences, period. Question is if CCP has the balls to do something, seeing as this guy seems to be a prominent figure. I am guessing not.
What ToS? The ToS is only there ingame not in real life.
1. You may not abuse, harass or threaten another player or authorized representative of CCP, including customer service personnel and volunteers. This includes, but is not limited to: petitioning with false information in an attempt to gain from it or have someone else suffer from it; sending excessive e-mails, EVE-mails or petitions; obstructing CCP Employees from doing their jobs; refusal to follow the instructions of a CCP Employee; or implying favoritism by a CCP Employee.
2. You may not use any abusive, defamatory, ethnically or racially offensive, harassing, harmful, hateful, obscene, offensive, sexually explicit, threatening or vulgar language. (Alternate spelling or partial masking of such words will be reprimanded in the same manner as the actual use of such words.)
3. You may not organize nor be a member of any corporation or group within EVE Online that is based on or advocates any anti-ethnic, anti-gay, anti-religious, racist, sexist or other hate-mongering philosophies
4. You may not use “role-playing” as an excuse to violate these rules. While EVE Online is a persistent world, fantasy role-playing game, the claim of role-playing is not an acceptable defense for anti-social behavior. Role-playing is encouraged, but not at the expense of other player. You may not create or participate in a corporation or group that habitually violates this policy.
5. You will report out-of-game issues regarding harassment, such as threatening phone calls or correspondence, to your local law enforcement officials or Internet provider. CCP will not reveal personal information about its subscribers to unauthorized individuals. We are not responsible for actions taken by our subscribers that occur outside the jurisdiction of our game servers or web site.
Well Rules 1 to 5 right at the top of the ToS would appear to cover most of the bases. As I replied to you in the other thread yesterday, why don't you tell us how these don't cover his actions
Did he personally take any action while logged into the game itself that violated the above. I don't think game TOS's cover actions that occur outside in real life.
Yes, I know he called for action against this player by others, but again, while perhaps a matter for the courts to one day decide, I don't see where CCP has much of a leg to stand on.
Time to revise the TOS I suppose. (someone let the folks over at Mortal Online know)
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Man, he used an official CCP platform to call for the in game harassment of someone with mental health issues with the express purpose of driving him to commit suicide, this was publically broadcast as part of the CCP coverage of their official event. I am not really sure how it can A. Be justifiable. B. not be against their catch all ToS or C. In CCP's interests (especially with their new partners such as Sony's publicly stated policies on cyber bullying) to keep this clusterfuck rolling down the hill gaining bad publicity. Alex Gianturco, the Mittani, needs to step up and step down fast.
Agreed. There has to be consequences for this kind of behaviour as it is far beyond hardcore PvP behaviour. Cyber bullying is something real, one that has shown to lead to suicide in some cases. And knowingly doing it against someone who is allegedly suicidal already?
There is no excuse really... at the very least the Goons, or whatever these idiots are called, need to stay away from this guy.
I take it you've never visited the Something Awful.com forums to gain an understanding that he'll be considered a hero to the Goons, not a villian.
And as far as EVE goes, likely he controls the real life cash assets of the Goonswarm (which are very considerable), so will be hard to depose him.
Don't see how any of that is relevant. He did that was simply put wrong, un-ethical and against the TOS. For this there should be consequences, period. Question is if CCP has the balls to do something, seeing as this guy seems to be a prominent figure. I am guessing not.
What ToS? The ToS is only there ingame not in real life.
1. You may not abuse, harass or threaten another player or authorized representative of CCP, including customer service personnel and volunteers. This includes, but is not limited to: petitioning with false information in an attempt to gain from it or have someone else suffer from it; sending excessive e-mails, EVE-mails or petitions; obstructing CCP Employees from doing their jobs; refusal to follow the instructions of a CCP Employee; or implying favoritism by a CCP Employee.
2. You may not use any abusive, defamatory, ethnically or racially offensive, harassing, harmful, hateful, obscene, offensive, sexually explicit, threatening or vulgar language. (Alternate spelling or partial masking of such words will be reprimanded in the same manner as the actual use of such words.)
3. You may not organize nor be a member of any corporation or group within EVE Online that is based on or advocates any anti-ethnic, anti-gay, anti-religious, racist, sexist or other hate-mongering philosophies
4. You may not use role-playing as an excuse to violate these rules. While EVE Online is a persistent world, fantasy role-playing game, the claim of role-playing is not an acceptable defense for anti-social behavior. Role-playing is encouraged, but not at the expense of other player. You may not create or participate in a corporation or group that habitually violates this policy.
5. You will report out-of-game issues regarding harassment, such as threatening phone calls or correspondence, to your local law enforcement officials or Internet provider. CCP will not reveal personal information about its subscribers to unauthorized individuals. We are not responsible for actions taken by our subscribers that occur outside the jurisdiction of our game servers or web site.
Well Rules 1 to 5 right at the top of the ToS would appear to cover most of the bases. As I replied to you in the other thread yesterday, why don't you tell us how these don't cover his actions
Did he personally take any action while logged into the game itself that violated the above. I don't think game TOS's cover actions that occur outside in real life.
Yes, I know he called for action against this player by others, but again, while perhaps a matter for the courts to one day decide, I don't see where CCP has much of a leg to stand on.
Time to revise the TOS I suppose. (someone let the folks over at Mortal Online know)
Well rule 1 includes but is not limited to emails (it also specifies eve mails too) but tbh with rule 25 and 26 which say your account can be closed and your property deleted at the whim of CCP with no comeback, all ToS discussions are essentially meaningless.
Has everyone watched what was said in context and in it's entirety. Was it funny, probably not all that, but I didn't find it all that offensive either and I really didn't get the impression he was bullying the guy. The feeling I did get was a bunch of pretty sad people getting drunk, perhaps to forget something (I'll stop there avoiding another warning/ban).
It was a mistake to give out the guys char name but if you watch you can see this was a stupid mistake done after his presentation. So while many think there are good reasons the goons should have various nasty think happen to them, my real impression was that this guy probably should learn how to handle his drink. It would be pretty difficult to take anything this guy said seriously, he's a geek posterboy, quite embarassing in all. tbh the whole panel and watching the vid is cringe worthy, maybe it's just me, you ever get the feeling you stepped into the wrong room..?
As part of the talk, Alex aired a private correspondence in which a victim revealed that he'd been severely depressed following a divorce and expressed suicidal thoughts. "We're sure that he's not dead," Alex flippantly remarked during the talk before adding that "he might have committed suicide.
later in the talk Alex actually gave the name of the pilot and encouraged players to harass him in order to make him commit suicide. "Incidentally, if you want to make the guy kill himself, his name is [redacted]," Alex said, adding that "he has his own corp. Find him."
Just wondering what planet you're from, I guess for you to think giving out contact information, a PM in which someone admits they are suicidally depressed after a recent divorce and encouraging the player base to heckle the guy into killing himself isn't offensive. You do understand that this is criminal in many countries, right?
Has everyone watched what was said in context and in it's entirety. Was it funny, probably not all that, but I didn't find it all that offensive either and I really didn't get the impression he was bullying the guy. The feeling I did get was a bunch of pretty sad people getting drunk, perhaps to forget something (I'll stop there avoiding another warning/ban).
It was a mistake to give out the guys char name but if you watch you can see this was a stupid mistake done after his presentation. So while many think there are good reasons the goons should have various nasty think happen to them, my real impression was that this guy probably should learn how to handle his drink. It would be pretty difficult to take anything this guy said seriously, he's a geek posterboy, quite embarassing in all. tbh the whole panel and watching the vid is cringe worthy, maybe it's just me, you ever get the feeling you stepped into the wrong room..?
As part of the talk, Alex aired a private correspondence in which a victim revealed that he'd been severely depressed following a divorce and expressed suicidal thoughts. "We're sure that he's not dead," Alex flippantly remarked during the talk before adding that "he might have committed suicide.
later in the talk Alex actually gave the name of the pilot and encouraged players to harass him in order to make him commit suicide. "Incidentally, if you want to make the guy kill himself, his name is [redacted]," Alex said, adding that "he has his own corp. Find him."
Just wondering what planet you're from, I guess for you to think giving out contact information, a PM in which someone admits they are suicidally depressed after a recent divorce and encouraging the player base to heckle the guy into killing himself isn't offensive. You do understand that this is criminal in many countries, right?
If he wanted to avoid harassment he can easily sell an in game character for in game money and play one of the other many characters I am sure he has, EVE allows you to go after other players with a sort of e-vendetta. You say something wrong to the wrong person you might find a fleet at your doorstep the next day, its just part of the game. For sure individual players are targeted for various reasons every day. Also if you look at this person's profile he is taking this with a cooler head than many of you guys. EVE players are pretty tough I don't think you can easily bully them like you do kids in other MMOs, often they write -fake- sob stories to get someone off their back, not saying this is what this player did here with Mittani but its probably one of the things that went thru Mittani's head while he was being a very mean mean person.
Has everyone watched what was said in context and in it's entirety. Was it funny, probably not all that, but I didn't find it all that offensive either and I really didn't get the impression he was bullying the guy. The feeling I did get was a bunch of pretty sad people getting drunk, perhaps to forget something (I'll stop there avoiding another warning/ban). It was a mistake to give out the guys char name but if you watch you can see this was a stupid mistake done after his presentation. So while many think there are good reasons the goons should have various nasty think happen to them, my real impression was that this guy probably should learn how to handle his drink. It would be pretty difficult to take anything this guy said seriously, he's a geek posterboy, quite embarassing in all. tbh the whole panel and watching the vid is cringe worthy, maybe it's just me, you ever get the feeling you stepped into the wrong room..?
As part of the talk, Alex aired a private correspondence in which a victim revealed that he'd been severely depressed following a divorce and expressed suicidal thoughts. "We're sure that he's not dead," Alex flippantly remarked during the talk before adding that "he might have committed suicide.
later in the talk Alex actually gave the name of the pilot and encouraged players to harass him in order to make him commit suicide. "Incidentally, if you want to make the guy kill himself, his name is [redacted]," Alex said, adding that "he has his own corp. Find him."
Just wondering what planet you're from, I guess for you to think giving out contact information, a PM in which someone admits they are suicidally depressed after a recent divorce and encouraging the player base to heckle the guy into killing himself isn't offensive. You do understand that this is criminal in many countries, right?
If he wanted to avoid harassment he can easily sell an in game character for in game money and play one of the other many characters I am sure he has, EVE allows you to go after other players with a sort of e-vendetta. You say something wrong to the wrong person you might find a fleet at your doorstep the next day, its just part of the game. For sure individual players are targeted for various reasons every day. Also if you look at this person's profile he is taking this with a cooler head than many of you guys. EVE players are pretty tough I don't think you can easily bully them like you do kids in other MMOs, often they write -fake- sob stories to get someone off their back, not saying this is what this player did here with Mittani but its probably one of the things that went thru Mittani's head while he was being a very mean mean person.
I am sure it did go through his head, he still just needs to man up and resign.
Just wondering what planet you're from, I guess for you to think giving out contact information, a PM in which someone admits they are suicidally depressed after a recent divorce and encouraging the player base to heckle the guy into killing himself isn't offensive. You do understand that this is criminal in many countries, right?
If its criminal then he should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
Vigilane justice is wrong, and mob mentality vigilante justice more so.
Edit: While we're at it why are we judging all of the company that runs a game by a player of that game, merely because they have been hesitant to react to this situation as it is probably a very "sticky" one.
Ok i wonder why is that guy not baned and i was few times becuse i said that i want mounts in gw2! Don't want even to comment something ridiculous like this post
Has everyone watched what was said in context and in it's entirety. Was it funny, probably not all that, but I didn't find it all that offensive either and I really didn't get the impression he was bullying the guy. The feeling I did get was a bunch of pretty sad people getting drunk, perhaps to forget something (I'll stop there avoiding another warning/ban).
It was a mistake to give out the guys char name but if you watch you can see this was a stupid mistake done after his presentation. So while many think there are good reasons the goons should have various nasty think happen to them, my real impression was that this guy probably should learn how to handle his drink. It would be pretty difficult to take anything this guy said seriously, he's a geek posterboy, quite embarassing in all. tbh the whole panel and watching the vid is cringe worthy, maybe it's just me, you ever get the feeling you stepped into the wrong room..?
As part of the talk, Alex aired a private correspondence in which a victim revealed that he'd been severely depressed following a divorce and expressed suicidal thoughts. "We're sure that he's not dead," Alex flippantly remarked during the talk before adding that "he might have committed suicide.
later in the talk Alex actually gave the name of the pilot and encouraged players to harass him in order to make him commit suicide. "Incidentally, if you want to make the guy kill himself, his name is [redacted]," Alex said, adding that "he has his own corp. Find him."
Just wondering what planet you're from, I guess for you to think giving out contact information, a PM in which someone admits they are suicidally depressed after a recent divorce and encouraging the player base to heckle the guy into killing himself isn't offensive. You do understand that this is criminal in many countries, right?
If he wanted to avoid harassment he can easily sell an in game character for in game money and play one of the other many characters I am sure he has, EVE allows you to go after other players with a sort of e-vendetta. You say something wrong to the wrong person you might find a fleet at your doorstep the next day, its just part of the game. For sure individual players are targeted for various reasons every day. Also if you look at this person's profile he is taking this with a cooler head than many of you guys. EVE players are pretty tough I don't think you can easily bully them like you do kids in other MMOs, often they write -fake- sob stories to get someone off their back, not saying this is what this player did here with Mittani but its probably one of the things that went thru Mittani's head while he was being a very mean mean person.
I am sure it did go through his head, he still just needs to man up and resign.
I suspect his ego is preventing him from doing that. If he does some random alliance somewhere will be commiting some injustice (goon propaganda) and will be promptly invaded by a thousand goons foaming at the mouth for internet glory. While also having a side effect of restoring some mittani epeen.
Has everyone watched what was said in context and in it's entirety. Was it funny, probably not all that, but I didn't find it all that offensive either and I really didn't get the impression he was bullying the guy. The feeling I did get was a bunch of pretty sad people getting drunk, perhaps to forget something (I'll stop there avoiding another warning/ban).
It was a mistake to give out the guys char name but if you watch you can see this was a stupid mistake done after his presentation. So while many think there are good reasons the goons should have various nasty think happen to them, my real impression was that this guy probably should learn how to handle his drink. It would be pretty difficult to take anything this guy said seriously, he's a geek posterboy, quite embarassing in all. tbh the whole panel and watching the vid is cringe worthy, maybe it's just me, you ever get the feeling you stepped into the wrong room..?
As part of the talk, Alex aired a private correspondence in which a victim revealed that he'd been severely depressed following a divorce and expressed suicidal thoughts. "We're sure that he's not dead," Alex flippantly remarked during the talk before adding that "he might have committed suicide.
later in the talk Alex actually gave the name of the pilot and encouraged players to harass him in order to make him commit suicide. "Incidentally, if you want to make the guy kill himself, his name is [redacted]," Alex said, adding that "he has his own corp. Find him."
Just wondering what planet you're from, I guess for you to think giving out contact information, a PM in which someone admits they are suicidally depressed after a recent divorce and encouraging the player base to heckle the guy into killing himself isn't offensive. You do understand that this is criminal in many countries, right?
Listen I was with you, I was all for lynching this guy, I read the same articles you have and was outraged. Then I actually watched it (1 boring hour of it) and what I read to what I watched didn't tally, it's called selective journalsm, they have sensationalised the actual events.
Watch it and decide for yourself (the last guy about 15 mins and the questions part where he gave the name -in a drunken slur), like I said I agree with your sentiment on what has been written but it's not what I felt happened so if your looking for someone to blame if the guy had of topped himself I'd of gone with the exceptionally unresposible reporting of it.
Btw Earth, but the jury is still out.
----- The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species.
The funny thing about this whole debacle is that 99.9% of the people who are upset have absolutely no idea what even happened. They didn't watch the 1+ hour panel to see the two second drunken slurs that came out of that douchebags mouth. All they are doing is going by what they read or heard from someone else.
If you are going to be upset, at least make sure you take the time to find out what actually happened. While I don't condone the douchers actions people are blowing this way out of proportion.
The fact of the matter is that there is an extremely high chance that the guys message to the goons was fabricated to try to get some type of reimbursement for the 23+ mackinaws he lost + the amount of isk he paid goons for their "protection" scam.
Either way, you stupid sheep need to get over this.
I've watched the panel, read the articles, and can only say one thing: It's HILARIOUS to watch all these supporter of The Mittani, the very same people who grief and lololololol about "oceans of pubbie tears", cry like little bitches and scream about how unfair this witchhunt is now that the tables are turned.
How do you like a taste of your own medicine, lamers? Double standard much?
DP...your forum signature has ruined my trolling powers. I look at that signature and laugh like a giddy school kid. I now move on to post productive comments and I don't like these peaceful feelings that I am now having. You are going to cause me to get all of my stars back...CURSE YOU!
I've watched the panel, read the articles, and can only say one thing: It's HILARIOUS to watch all these supporter of The Mittani, the very same people who grief and lololololol about "oceans of pubbie tears", cry like little bitches and scream about how unfair this witchhunt is now that the tables are turned.
How do you like a taste of your own medicine, lamers? Double standard much?
So what you're saying is, his specific actions in this case do not justify the outcry, however collectively the goons are cess filled polyps on the anus of life and deserve everything coming to them? That's a movement I can get behind wholeheartedly! Are we also happy with the bad press ccp get? Afterall I fkin hate eve for all wasted hours I've spent trying to like it.
----- The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species.
I've watched the panel, read the articles, and can only say one thing: It's HILARIOUS to watch all these supporter of The Mittani, the very same people who grief and lololololol about "oceans of pubbie tears", cry like little bitches and scream about how unfair this witchhunt is now that the tables are turned.
How do you like a taste of your own medicine, lamers? Double standard much?
So what you're saying is, his specific actions in this case do not justify the outcry, however collectively the goons are cess filled polyps on the anus of life and deserve everything coming to them? That's a movement I can get behind wholeheartedly! Are we also happy with the bad press ccp get? Afterall I fkin hate eve for all wasted hours I've spent trying to like it.
Well, I have to dial it back some. I actually kind of like EvE, even its harsher aspects and I think some of the hard edge of it is very good and the gamers who play there have a right to do as they see fit IG. I just think that for an organization like GS, that boasts about using "psychological warfare" and propaganda against its enemies, it's quite amazing to watch how they don't see what is happening. Turnabout is fair play. Live by distortion and underhanded tactics, die by them...
I think what he said was over the line because of the public nature of the comments and it is too much to wish that kind of harm on somebody and actually provide encouragement for how to make it happen... I think he showed forethought in adding the slide with the original eve-mail from the miner in question... I don't know if he really intended to encourage people to drive the miner to suicide or if it truly was drunken stupidity, but... having watched it and taking GS for who they are (and the game for what it is), I have to admit that this story (or at least a lot of people's understanding of it) is very distorted in some respects (just certain details were left out of the original articles, whether on purpose or by accident). Yet, I think crossing that line is grave enough to warrant outcry despite the inaccuracies.
I really do think it is funny to see such a ruthless organization get knocked down a peg by some of the very tactics that it employs. I find it less funny to think about how this might have damaged Alex Gianturco's career prospects given the nature of google/the internet/employers doing searches into the backgrounds of prospective employees. When people are getting fired for racy pictures showing up on their public facebook pages and the like, what he did was very, very stupid. Being so successful in the game have made a lot of these players feel invincible... I hope what is happening now, once it dies away, serves as a sobering reminder for us all about how we conduct ourselves online.
The younger generation coming up (and many of the older gamers too, admittedly) don't always grasp the implications of our actions online and within virtual worlds (including some of the public spaces that are related to online activity, be they online, like forums - or offline, like fanfests). People go around acting like their behavior and conduct doesn't matter because "it's online... who cares!?" as if the randomness and relative anonymity of it all makes being a dick perfectly okay. This current episode in EvE's bizarre and often entertaining history is just another example of a player who lost a sense of where the boundaries of one realm (the game) end and where another realm (the real world) begins. With the current public fervor about "cyber bullying," it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see how what he did is bad for him, bad for EvE, and even a little bit bad for MMO's.
Anyway, these players all felt insulated and invincible because it was a fanfest... which makes it sad. Part of the fun of going (or viewing) such an event is the spontaneous nature of it all. Plus, it lets the diehards let their hair down and enjoy being passionate about their passion. I have no qualms with that, though I could do without some of the alpha-male prick waving that seems to be synonymous with fun at these kinds of things. Still, anybody with half a brain knows that in such a public forum (with literally thousands of people watching), you should probably avoid so much alcohol and you sure as hell better avoid advocating for bodily harm against other people, making racial/religious jokes, etc. At least I would hope that a lawyer (or law student??), which he supposedly is/was, would know better. I will add, just for the hell of it, that I actually liked the EvE-UNI guy and the first wormhole kid was okay too. I can't say that I share your hate for the game, but I do find it humorous that even the goons will have to accept at some point that The Mittani got what was coming to him. You can't put yourself up on some pedastool because of what an evil bastard you are and then act wronged when the same mud you've been slinging comes flying right back at you. TL;DR (unlike the rest of this mess) = what goes around comes around.
A player harrassed another at an official event, said player got a 30-day ban and resigned his community possition, end of story.
Not only that but CCP is making changes to future events/panels so this doesn't happen again.
Much ado about nothing.
Are you serious? You really don't get why this is a huge deal? Just pick up any newspaper, turn on the news, listen to the radio even and you will hear something about "cyber bullying".... students rallying against it, mothers upset about it, mothers doing it and getting thrown in jail, states and countries passing laws about it, etc.
Games do not exist in a bubble and until some of you wake up and realize that you have to think about what you say in a public forum, stuff like this will feed the media frenzy that's already in full swing. This whole thing is about perception and about how public sentiment is hardening against anything that even remotely comes close to what happened here.
It might seem all well and innocent to you, but we are a few more events like this away from hardcore laws and regulations on online gaming/"massively multiplayer" interaction of ALL sorts. It will just take some person to kill themselves over something like this for all kinds of governments and pencil-pushers to get involved in the process. This is a BIG FUCKING DEAL and those of you who try to just ignore it away are missing the bigger picture. Some of us can still remember the religious backlash against D&D and nonsense like that... Online gaming (and interaction in general) is being threatened in the same way with all the news reports about teenagers killing themselves over facebook bullying and the like. Therefore, the kind of crap that The Mittani/Alex Gianturco did has simply got to stop, as funny and harmless as some of you think it is.
There is a big ass tidal wave bearing down on the internet right now. We've seen it with all of these laws (US and elsewhere) related to "cyber terrorism" and, now more and more often, "cyber bullying"... People need to start growing up and realizing this isn't just a FFA where you can spit in everyone's eyes and laugh about it without consequences. The beauty about online anonymity (and MMO's in general) is that they allow us a certain freedom, we can literally become another persona in some cases, but the other side of that awesomeness is the danger of losing it all because people don't know how to keep the game world and the real world separate.
A player harrassed another at an official event, said player got a 30-day ban and resigned his community possition, end of story.
Not only that but CCP is making changes to future events/panels so this doesn't happen again.
Much ado about nothing.
Truthfully, what Mittens said is a legit concern.
That's not to say their isn't meta-gaming going on either. Mittens stumbled and became very vulnerable for the first time while being in the spotlight. Non-goons are using Goon style meta-gaming, CCP endorsed tactics, to get back at them.
Mittens gets a thirty day ban and is now out of the CCP spotlight, CSM Chair/posterboy status, which he loved so much.
Goons now upset saying their tactics have been used against them. It's basically an enviroment that CCP has cultivated over the years which has gotten out of control. It comes back to bite CCP in the ass from time-to-time.
Comments
Well refminer I have replied to you in the other thread so as not to clutter up this shit thread with off topic chat.
Why would you disband an 8000 man alliance because the CEO said something stupid while drunk? Would you disband the United States if Obama made fun of autistic kids? (The sovereignty mechanics make GS essentially a nation because it holds territory in the persistent game world).
Did he personally take any action while logged into the game itself that violated the above. I don't think game TOS's cover actions that occur outside in real life.
Yes, I know he called for action against this player by others, but again, while perhaps a matter for the courts to one day decide, I don't see where CCP has much of a leg to stand on.
Time to revise the TOS I suppose. (someone let the folks over at Mortal Online know)
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Agreed. There has to be consequences for this kind of behaviour as it is far beyond hardcore PvP behaviour. Cyber bullying is something real, one that has shown to lead to suicide in some cases. And knowingly doing it against someone who is allegedly suicidal already?
There is no excuse really... at the very least the Goons, or whatever these idiots are called, need to stay away from this guy.
I take it you've never visited the Something Awful.com forums to gain an understanding that he'll be considered a hero to the Goons, not a villian.
And as far as EVE goes, likely he controls the real life cash assets of the Goonswarm (which are very considerable), so will be hard to depose him.
Don't see how any of that is relevant. He did that was simply put wrong, un-ethical and against the TOS. For this there should be consequences, period. Question is if CCP has the balls to do something, seeing as this guy seems to be a prominent figure. I am guessing not.
What ToS? The ToS is only there ingame not in real life.
1. You may not abuse, harass or threaten another player or authorized representative of CCP, including customer service personnel and volunteers. This includes, but is not limited to: petitioning with false information in an attempt to gain from it or have someone else suffer from it; sending excessive e-mails, EVE-mails or petitions; obstructing CCP Employees from doing their jobs; refusal to follow the instructions of a CCP Employee; or implying favoritism by a CCP Employee.
2. You may not use any abusive, defamatory, ethnically or racially offensive, harassing, harmful, hateful, obscene, offensive, sexually explicit, threatening or vulgar language. (Alternate spelling or partial masking of such words will be reprimanded in the same manner as the actual use of such words.)
3. You may not organize nor be a member of any corporation or group within EVE Online that is based on or advocates any anti-ethnic, anti-gay, anti-religious, racist, sexist or other hate-mongering philosophies
4. You may not use role-playing as an excuse to violate these rules. While EVE Online is a persistent world, fantasy role-playing game, the claim of role-playing is not an acceptable defense for anti-social behavior. Role-playing is encouraged, but not at the expense of other player. You may not create or participate in a corporation or group that habitually violates this policy.
5. You will report out-of-game issues regarding harassment, such as threatening phone calls or correspondence, to your local law enforcement officials or Internet provider. CCP will not reveal personal information about its subscribers to unauthorized individuals. We are not responsible for actions taken by our subscribers that occur outside the jurisdiction of our game servers or web site.
Well Rules 1 to 5 right at the top of the ToS would appear to cover most of the bases. As I replied to you in the other thread yesterday, why don't you tell us how these don't cover his actionsDid he personally take any action while logged into the game itself that violated the above. I don't think game TOS's cover actions that occur outside in real life.
Yes, I know he called for action against this player by others, but again, while perhaps a matter for the courts to one day decide, I don't see where CCP has much of a leg to stand on.
Time to revise the TOS I suppose. (someone let the folks over at Mortal Online know)
Well rule 1 includes but is not limited to emails (it also specifies eve mails too) but tbh with rule 25 and 26 which say your account can be closed and your property deleted at the whim of CCP with no comeback, all ToS discussions are essentially meaningless.The poll itself isn't correct as the guy didn't kill himself.
I also don't think that "justice" is everyone jumping on the aggressor and making them a victim.
We are in the age of the internet lynch mob.
http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/03/26/ccp-investigates-player-panel-that-encouraged-cyber-bullying/
As part of the talk, Alex aired a private correspondence in which a victim revealed that he'd been severely depressed following a divorce and expressed suicidal thoughts. "We're sure that he's not dead," Alex flippantly remarked during the talk before adding that "he might have committed suicide.
later in the talk Alex actually gave the name of the pilot and encouraged players to harass him in order to make him commit suicide. "Incidentally, if you want to make the guy kill himself, his name is [redacted]," Alex said, adding that "he has his own corp. Find him."
Just wondering what planet you're from, I guess for you to think giving out contact information, a PM in which someone admits they are suicidally depressed after a recent divorce and encouraging the player base to heckle the guy into killing himself isn't offensive. You do understand that this is criminal in many countries, right?
If he wanted to avoid harassment he can easily sell an in game character for in game money and play one of the other many characters I am sure he has, EVE allows you to go after other players with a sort of e-vendetta. You say something wrong to the wrong person you might find a fleet at your doorstep the next day, its just part of the game. For sure individual players are targeted for various reasons every day. Also if you look at this person's profile he is taking this with a cooler head than many of you guys. EVE players are pretty tough I don't think you can easily bully them like you do kids in other MMOs, often they write -fake- sob stories to get someone off their back, not saying this is what this player did here with Mittani but its probably one of the things that went thru Mittani's head while he was being a very mean mean person.
http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/03/26/ccp-investigates-player-panel-that-encouraged-cyber-bullying/
As part of the talk, Alex aired a private correspondence in which a victim revealed that he'd been severely depressed following a divorce and expressed suicidal thoughts. "We're sure that he's not dead," Alex flippantly remarked during the talk before adding that "he might have committed suicide.
later in the talk Alex actually gave the name of the pilot and encouraged players to harass him in order to make him commit suicide. "Incidentally, if you want to make the guy kill himself, his name is [redacted]," Alex said, adding that "he has his own corp. Find him."
Just wondering what planet you're from, I guess for you to think giving out contact information, a PM in which someone admits they are suicidally depressed after a recent divorce and encouraging the player base to heckle the guy into killing himself isn't offensive. You do understand that this is criminal in many countries, right?
If he wanted to avoid harassment he can easily sell an in game character for in game money and play one of the other many characters I am sure he has, EVE allows you to go after other players with a sort of e-vendetta. You say something wrong to the wrong person you might find a fleet at your doorstep the next day, its just part of the game. For sure individual players are targeted for various reasons every day. Also if you look at this person's profile he is taking this with a cooler head than many of you guys. EVE players are pretty tough I don't think you can easily bully them like you do kids in other MMOs, often they write -fake- sob stories to get someone off their back, not saying this is what this player did here with Mittani but its probably one of the things that went thru Mittani's head while he was being a very mean mean person.
I am sure it did go through his head, he still just needs to man up and resign.If its criminal then he should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
Vigilane justice is wrong, and mob mentality vigilante justice more so.
Edit: While we're at it why are we judging all of the company that runs a game by a player of that game, merely because they have been hesitant to react to this situation as it is probably a very "sticky" one.
Ok i wonder why is that guy not baned and i was few times becuse i said that i want mounts in gw2! Don't want even to comment something ridiculous like this post
I suspect his ego is preventing him from doing that. If he does some random alliance somewhere will be commiting some injustice (goon propaganda) and will be promptly invaded by a thousand goons foaming at the mouth for internet glory. While also having a side effect of restoring some mittani epeen.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
Listen I was with you, I was all for lynching this guy, I read the same articles you have and was outraged. Then I actually watched it (1 boring hour of it) and what I read to what I watched didn't tally, it's called selective journalsm, they have sensationalised the actual events.
Watch it and decide for yourself (the last guy about 15 mins and the questions part where he gave the name -in a drunken slur), like I said I agree with your sentiment on what has been written but it's not what I felt happened so if your looking for someone to blame if the guy had of topped himself I'd of gone with the exceptionally unresposible reporting of it.
Btw Earth, but the jury is still out.
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The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species.
The funny thing about this whole debacle is that 99.9% of the people who are upset have absolutely no idea what even happened. They didn't watch the 1+ hour panel to see the two second drunken slurs that came out of that douchebags mouth. All they are doing is going by what they read or heard from someone else.
If you are going to be upset, at least make sure you take the time to find out what actually happened. While I don't condone the douchers actions people are blowing this way out of proportion.
The fact of the matter is that there is an extremely high chance that the guys message to the goons was fabricated to try to get some type of reimbursement for the 23+ mackinaws he lost + the amount of isk he paid goons for their "protection" scam.
Either way, you stupid sheep need to get over this.
I've watched the panel, read the articles, and can only say one thing: It's HILARIOUS to watch all these supporter of The Mittani, the very same people who grief and lololololol about "oceans of pubbie tears", cry like little bitches and scream about how unfair this witchhunt is now that the tables are turned.
How do you like a taste of your own medicine, lamers? Double standard much?
DP...your forum signature has ruined my trolling powers. I look at that signature and laugh like a giddy school kid. I now move on to post productive comments and I don't like these peaceful feelings that I am now having. You are going to cause me to get all of my stars back...CURSE YOU!
So what you're saying is, his specific actions in this case do not justify the outcry, however collectively the goons are cess filled polyps on the anus of life and deserve everything coming to them? That's a movement I can get behind wholeheartedly! Are we also happy with the bad press ccp get? Afterall I fkin hate eve for all wasted hours I've spent trying to like it.
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The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species.
This thread is even less mature than what Mittani did.
Well, I have to dial it back some. I actually kind of like EvE, even its harsher aspects and I think some of the hard edge of it is very good and the gamers who play there have a right to do as they see fit IG. I just think that for an organization like GS, that boasts about using "psychological warfare" and propaganda against its enemies, it's quite amazing to watch how they don't see what is happening. Turnabout is fair play. Live by distortion and underhanded tactics, die by them...
I think what he said was over the line because of the public nature of the comments and it is too much to wish that kind of harm on somebody and actually provide encouragement for how to make it happen... I think he showed forethought in adding the slide with the original eve-mail from the miner in question... I don't know if he really intended to encourage people to drive the miner to suicide or if it truly was drunken stupidity, but... having watched it and taking GS for who they are (and the game for what it is), I have to admit that this story (or at least a lot of people's understanding of it) is very distorted in some respects (just certain details were left out of the original articles, whether on purpose or by accident). Yet, I think crossing that line is grave enough to warrant outcry despite the inaccuracies.
I really do think it is funny to see such a ruthless organization get knocked down a peg by some of the very tactics that it employs. I find it less funny to think about how this might have damaged Alex Gianturco's career prospects given the nature of google/the internet/employers doing searches into the backgrounds of prospective employees. When people are getting fired for racy pictures showing up on their public facebook pages and the like, what he did was very, very stupid. Being so successful in the game have made a lot of these players feel invincible... I hope what is happening now, once it dies away, serves as a sobering reminder for us all about how we conduct ourselves online.
The younger generation coming up (and many of the older gamers too, admittedly) don't always grasp the implications of our actions online and within virtual worlds (including some of the public spaces that are related to online activity, be they online, like forums - or offline, like fanfests). People go around acting like their behavior and conduct doesn't matter because "it's online... who cares!?" as if the randomness and relative anonymity of it all makes being a dick perfectly okay. This current episode in EvE's bizarre and often entertaining history is just another example of a player who lost a sense of where the boundaries of one realm (the game) end and where another realm (the real world) begins. With the current public fervor about "cyber bullying," it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see how what he did is bad for him, bad for EvE, and even a little bit bad for MMO's.
Anyway, these players all felt insulated and invincible because it was a fanfest... which makes it sad. Part of the fun of going (or viewing) such an event is the spontaneous nature of it all. Plus, it lets the diehards let their hair down and enjoy being passionate about their passion. I have no qualms with that, though I could do without some of the alpha-male prick waving that seems to be synonymous with fun at these kinds of things. Still, anybody with half a brain knows that in such a public forum (with literally thousands of people watching), you should probably avoid so much alcohol and you sure as hell better avoid advocating for bodily harm against other people, making racial/religious jokes, etc. At least I would hope that a lawyer (or law student??), which he supposedly is/was, would know better. I will add, just for the hell of it, that I actually liked the EvE-UNI guy and the first wormhole kid was okay too. I can't say that I share your hate for the game, but I do find it humorous that even the goons will have to accept at some point that The Mittani got what was coming to him. You can't put yourself up on some pedastool because of what an evil bastard you are and then act wronged when the same mud you've been slinging comes flying right back at you. TL;DR (unlike the rest of this mess) = what goes around comes around.
I don't get how this is even causing controvesy.
A player harrassed another at an official event, said player got a 30-day ban and resigned his community possition, end of story.
Not only that but CCP is making changes to future events/panels so this doesn't happen again.
Much ado about nothing.
Are you serious? You really don't get why this is a huge deal? Just pick up any newspaper, turn on the news, listen to the radio even and you will hear something about "cyber bullying".... students rallying against it, mothers upset about it, mothers doing it and getting thrown in jail, states and countries passing laws about it, etc.
Games do not exist in a bubble and until some of you wake up and realize that you have to think about what you say in a public forum, stuff like this will feed the media frenzy that's already in full swing. This whole thing is about perception and about how public sentiment is hardening against anything that even remotely comes close to what happened here.
It might seem all well and innocent to you, but we are a few more events like this away from hardcore laws and regulations on online gaming/"massively multiplayer" interaction of ALL sorts. It will just take some person to kill themselves over something like this for all kinds of governments and pencil-pushers to get involved in the process. This is a BIG FUCKING DEAL and those of you who try to just ignore it away are missing the bigger picture. Some of us can still remember the religious backlash against D&D and nonsense like that... Online gaming (and interaction in general) is being threatened in the same way with all the news reports about teenagers killing themselves over facebook bullying and the like. Therefore, the kind of crap that The Mittani/Alex Gianturco did has simply got to stop, as funny and harmless as some of you think it is.
There is a big ass tidal wave bearing down on the internet right now. We've seen it with all of these laws (US and elsewhere) related to "cyber terrorism" and, now more and more often, "cyber bullying"... People need to start growing up and realizing this isn't just a FFA where you can spit in everyone's eyes and laugh about it without consequences. The beauty about online anonymity (and MMO's in general) is that they allow us a certain freedom, we can literally become another persona in some cases, but the other side of that awesomeness is the danger of losing it all because people don't know how to keep the game world and the real world separate.
Truthfully, what Mittens said is a legit concern.
That's not to say their isn't meta-gaming going on either. Mittens stumbled and became very vulnerable for the first time while being in the spotlight. Non-goons are using Goon style meta-gaming, CCP endorsed tactics, to get back at them.
Mittens gets a thirty day ban and is now out of the CCP spotlight, CSM Chair/posterboy status, which he loved so much.
Goons now upset saying their tactics have been used against them. It's basically an enviroment that CCP has cultivated over the years which has gotten out of control. It comes back to bite CCP in the ass from time-to-time.
OP thinks he's important but he's not.