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combat isn't challenging "non-sense"

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  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,899Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by ropenice

    Originally posted by Kickaxe


    Originally posted by Distopia


    Originally posted by BlahTeeb


    Originally posted by troublmakerat all.

    I always enjoy your posts, Distopia; you're always thoughtful and, what I appreciate moreso, moderate.  I wanted to add a couple of thougths to your posits about mass appeal relationships with difficulty level.  I'm sure we've seen this discussion many times on the various GW2 forums around the internet, but let me again suggest that it is most definitely difficult to find a sweet spot for game difficulty/challenge where a playerbase is composed of a wide variety of levels of adeptness.  In other words, I believe skepticism about possible high skill cap is prudent at this point, regardless of TB's optimism.

     

    Don't anyone take this as me suggesting that the game won't have challenges, but rather that I'm suggesting combat, at least pve combat, is unlikely to have anywhere near a constant high challenge level, especially in the open world/dynamic events.  One might argue that I'm underestimating the average player's skill level, or that the average player will be content with mediocre results, or even that Anet simply doesn't give a damn about average players.  I certainly don't see any reason to believe any of that.  I should, however, acknowledge that challenge and difficulty are subjective terms so we won't all perceive them the same way.  User experiences will vary.  Also, PvP is a separate argument.

    It will be hard to set the perfect difficulty level for everyone, as most PvE content seems to be DE's in the open world (except for dungeons). Say what you want about instanced content, but it does allow you to set many levels of difficulty. Ex. In DDO you had 4 levels of difficulty for any levels, plus Epic max level setting. It's going to be hard to get DE's challenging enough for the more skilled players, while keeping the less skilled from getting frustrated over dying to much.

    Exactly which is why harder content today is typically optional, and off the beaten path the masses travel.

    Very good points Kickaxe^^

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,899Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by brody71

    Originally posted by DJJazzy

    Can someone tell me of an mmo that had challenging combat in the very beggining of the game?

    I mean what's the highest level we've seen of GW2, level 30? 

    according to a lot of people that bashed TERA every game should be challenging out of the gate.

    Yeah the quote usually goes something like this " If I don't see all the game has to offer in 10 minutes, that's all I need to decalre it a POS".

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • SlampigSlampig Chantilly, VAPosts: 2,376Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by itgrowls

    TotalBisquit puts the smack down on the bad reviewers once again image

    TotalBisquit 2 concerning combat.

    You can tell me the combat in this game sh*ts out gold coins and cheeseburgers, but so what?

     

    Until I have had my hands on I could care less, fanboy on all you want. I hope it lives up to the hype but I am not going to drool all over my self in a herpderp fest because of a few videos...

    That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!

  • MephsterMephster Tyria, NJPosts: 1,188Member

    Figured ArenaNet would go carebare because they can't help themselves catering to the casuals.

    Grim Dawn, the next great action rpg!

    http://www.grimdawn.com/

  • DJJazzyDJJazzy louisville, COPosts: 2,053Member

    Well I think his point, cyress, was that you see this complaint about every mmo now. If people don't die at level 1 then apparently the whole game is too easy.

  • GoldenArrowGoldenArrow TurkuPosts: 1,187Member

    NOTE: I haven't played the game, but this is according to what I've seen in the clips.

     

    When talking about difficulty Tera is a joke from the beginning.  It does get harder 30+ and the endgame content  is rather challenging.  In GW2 the game never gets easy, although it does get easier depeding how many players are running around  with you. Even though the monsters scale up and get new abilites (1-shot aoe's for example) it's always easier to keep the fight going with more people in sense of resurrecting people aswell as corpse running back to action really quick. The boss only resets if all of the players die at the same time. Another important factor for GW2 is that the game has really aggressive scaling. You instantly get scaled down  to the appropriate level when you enter the area so there's no way to "faceroll" the content. GW2 has the hardest early game in MMORPGs I've seen in awhile.

  • VannorVannor YorkshirePosts: 2,968Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by cyress8

     




    Originally posted by brody71





    Originally posted by DJJazzy

    Can someone tell me of an mmo that had challenging combat in the very beggining of the game?

    I mean what's the highest level we've seen of GW2, level 30? 






    according to a lot of people that bashed TERA every game should be challenging out of the gate.





    After playing both, GW2 is actually more diffculty than Tera. There I said it. Some events are easy. However, when you do an event with 2-3 people in the starting area it gets difficult real quick.

     

    Ex. Charr starting area - lvl 6 - while passing by an event is going on to help tidy up a junkyard that houses old weapons and etc. You finish that event. Go off do something else. You head back to the Charr home city, the junkyard is under attack by the Flame Legion trying to recover those old weapons.

    Once you head in you take down a few. A few seconds later more come storming in and looking all badass since they are charr. (And i'm not just talking about 1 or 2 mobs.) You see about 5-6 coming in on 1 side then right behind you at the other entrance 5-6 more coming. It was just me and 2 others doing this event along with about 3 damn weak npcs. (Most NPC allies are pretty weak in this game. Do not expect them to do much but cause a quick distraction.)

    The fight was hectic as hell the whole time, from dodging, healing, and rezzing. Just straight out trying to survive. And we still lost since the Flame Legion were able to take the stuff from the junkyard while we tryed our best to stay alive.

    I don't know if you're just ignoring the PM I sent you but I've already reported you to ArenaNET. You are risking a permanent ban from access to all their games.

    Everything in beta is subject to change anyway so everything you are telling people now might not reflect the final product in anyway.. so I don't see why you feel the need to vent your love and excitement.

  • SuperXero89SuperXero89 Amory, MSPosts: 2,544Member Uncommon

    Why does "combat" always have to be "challenging" when it's something you're constantly involved with doing? How many people say, "Gee, I hope driving my car to work tomorrow morning is challenging!" Challenging encounters here and there is a good thing, but when just about every encounter requires you to pay 100% attention and play your class to perfection it just becomes annoying

    That's what I think Blizzard "gets" about WoW.  Speaking purely from the level cap, there's quite a variety of difficulty to be seen. Solo questing is highly casual and easy.  Anyone can do it while watching TV, while talking on the phone, or while just killing some time.  Heroic 5-man are a little bit more difficult.  You need to know which buttons to press and when to press them, and it certainly is possible to wipe depending on the gear level of your group, but generally speaking, mistakes can be healed through.  Zandalari heroics are a lot more difficult, and you can die pretty quickly if you don't know what you're doing.  Likewise, raiding is even more difficult.

    The difference between the content?  You're not exactly raiding or running heroics ever second of your playtime.  Running dailies is something most every WoW player does once per day, so why should they be challenging?  If I'm going to have to run them over and over again, I want to be able to fly through them without much thought.  I feel similarly about questing in general.  When I want a challenge; however, I can queue for a dungeon or sign up for a raid.  I might run two or three raids a week, and that's plenty of challenge for me.

  • KickaxeKickaxe Winnipeg, MBPosts: 92Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by DJJazzy

    Well I think his point, cyress, was that you see this complaint about every mmo now. If people don't die at level 1 then apparently the whole game is too easy.

    I believe people tend to exaggerate ease and downplay difficulty.  Of course I also believe people tend to exaggerate the importance of combat, especially adversarial (PvP) combat, in MMO's.  But I agree with your sentiments, DJJazzy.

  • SuperXero89SuperXero89 Amory, MSPosts: 2,544Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Kickaxe

    Originally posted by DJJazzy

    Well I think his point, cyress, was that you see this complaint about every mmo now. If people don't die at level 1 then apparently the whole game is too easy.

    I believe people tend to exaggerate ease and downplay difficulty.  Of course I also believe people tend to exaggerate the importance of combat, especially adversarial (PvP) combat, in MMO's.  But I agree with your sentiments, DJJazzy.

    wonder why that is...

  • VannorVannor YorkshirePosts: 2,968Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by //\//\oo

    Originally posted by Vannor


     

    I don't know if you're just ignoring the PM I sent you but I've already reported you to ArenaNET. You are risking a permanent ban from access to all their games.

    Everything in beta is subject to change anyway so everything you are telling people now might not reflect the final product in anyway.. so I don't see why you feel the need to vent your love and excitement.

     

    If you seriously reported him to ArenaNet, then you are a human cancer.

    The guy gave an example that is probably available in some jounalists gameplay footage and actually promoted the game through it, so you feel the need to have him banned him from the game? What makes you think that ArenaNet could even determine what his ArenaNet account is from his MMORPG.com account?

    Are they going to surrender an IP, that is more than likely a proxy, just to try and remove him from the game? You know, use precious man hours comparing some IP to all IPs they might, or might not have anymore?

     

    You are a fundamentally bad person and deserve to be extricated from the human species.

     

    I'm sure they might get away with it, but they were given the privilage to try out the game ahead of almost 2 million other people and are abusing that privilage. He signed the NDA.. he risks the ban through his actions. There is a reason why the press sign a different agreement, that agreement permits them from talking about 'certain' things.

    There are loads of people in multiple threads now egging this guy on and encouraging him to talk about beta. Eventually he will say something that he shouldn't and could cause a whole host of negative outcomes. I get that he loves the game, fantastic, but he could cause more bad than good concerning something that wouldn't reflect the final product.

    Some of us uphold NDAs. There are millions of people who would have loved to have been given the chance he had.

  • KickaxeKickaxe Winnipeg, MBPosts: 92Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by SuperXero89

    Originally posted by Kickaxe


    Originally posted by DJJazzy

    Well I think his point, cyress, was that you see this complaint about every mmo now. If people don't die at level 1 then apparently the whole game is too easy.

    I believe people tend to exaggerate ease and downplay difficulty.  Of course I also believe people tend to exaggerate the importance of combat, especially adversarial (PvP) combat, in MMO's.  But I agree with your sentiments, DJJazzy.

    wonder why that is...

    I'm fighting the urge to answer your rhetorical, Super.  :p

     

    But I'm not sure that I understand your implication, nonetheless.  Elaborate?

  • //\//\oo//\//\oo MalboroughPosts: 2,767Member

    Originally posted by Vannor



     

    I'm sure they might get away with it, but they were given the privilage to try out the game ahead of almost 2 million other people and are abusing that privilage. He signed the NDA.. he risks the ban through his actions. There is a reason why the press sign a different agreement, that agreement permits them from talking about 'certain' things.

    Some of us uphold NDAs. There are millions of people who would have loved to have been given the chance he had.

     

      NDAs are in place to protect the company. That is their purpose; to prevent others from leaking information that could damage their reputation and/or product.

    He promoted their product by citing a single example that more than likely could be found on youtube, or other media.

     

    You report NDA violations when they damage the product, not help it. The only reason people like you report is pure Schadenfreude and nothing else. You don't care about the game, you don't care about the contract, you just want to see somebody suffer.

    Whether it's a serial killer, rapist, inquisitor, etc. it all boils down to a person deriving pleasure from the misery of another.

     

    In an abstract sense, you are not better than any of the above.

     

     

     

    This is a sequence of characters intended to produce some profound mental effect, but it has failed.

  • VannorVannor YorkshirePosts: 2,968Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by //\//\oo

    Originally posted by Vannor




     

    I'm sure they might get away with it, but they were given the privilage to try out the game ahead of almost 2 million other people and are abusing that privilage. He signed the NDA.. he risks the ban through his actions. There is a reason why the press sign a different agreement, that agreement permits them from talking about 'certain' things.

    Some of us uphold NDAs. There are millions of people who would have loved to have been given the chance he had.

     

      NDAs are in place to protect the company. That is their purpose; to prevent others from leaking information that could damage their reputation and/or product.

    He promoted their product by citing a single example that more than likely could be found on youtube, or other media.

     

    You report NDA violations when they damage the product, not help it. The only reason people like you report is pure Schadenfreude and nothing else. You don't care about the game, you don't care about the contract, you just want to see somebody suffer.

    Whether it's a serial killer, rapist, inquisitor, etc. it all boils down to a person deriving pleasure from the misery of another.

     

    In an abstract sense, you are not better than any of the above.

    I edited that post a little after you started quoting it.

    But no, that's not the reason I do it. I don't want him banned from the game, I want him to stop talking about the beta. This is about principles and morals. Thousands of testers want to do what he is doing but they don't.. why does this guy get to do it instead of them?

  • davestr1zldavestr1zl MelbPosts: 218Member

    Originally posted by //\//\oo

    Originally posted by Vannor




     

    I'm sure they might get away with it, but they were given the privilage to try out the game ahead of almost 2 million other people and are abusing that privilage. He signed the NDA.. he risks the ban through his actions. There is a reason why the press sign a different agreement, that agreement permits them from talking about 'certain' things.

    Some of us uphold NDAs. There are millions of people who would have loved to have been given the chance he had.

     

      NDAs are in place to protect the company. That is their purpose; to prevent others from leaking information that could damage their reputation and/or product.

    He promoted their product by citing a single example that more than likely could be found on youtube, or other media.

     

    You report NDA violations when they damage the product, not help it. The only reason people like you report is pure Schadenfreude and nothing else. You don't care about the game, you don't care about the contract, you just want to see somebody suffer.

    Whether it's a serial killer, rapist, inquisitor, etc. it all boils down to a person deriving pleasure from the misery of another.

     

    In an abstract sense, you are not better than any of the above.

     

     

     

    So its ok to break NDA if the thing your leaking is 'good'? What is 'good' to one person is equally 'bad' to another, its all subject to opinion. Secondly what happens if the 'good' thing the guy talked about gets changed or removed before release, wouldnt that then have an adverse effect? NDA's are in place for a reason. Just because something is leaked that puts the game in a favourable light to you doesnt mean its ok to leak it.

  • SuperXero89SuperXero89 Amory, MSPosts: 2,544Member Uncommon

    Do we really have nothing else more productive to do tonight than whine at someone for breaking the NDA?

  • DJJazzyDJJazzy louisville, COPosts: 2,053Member

    forum pvp dude, it's the best pvp out there

  • //\//\oo//\//\oo MalboroughPosts: 2,767Member

    Originally posted by davestr1zl



     

    So its ok to break NDA if the thing your leaking is 'good'? What is 'good' to one person is equally 'bad' to another, its all subject to opinion. Secondly what happens if the 'good' thing the guy talked about gets changed or removed before release, wouldnt that then have an adverse effect? NDA's are in place for a reason. Just because something is leaked that puts the game in a favourable light to you doesnt mean its ok to leak it.

     

        There is nothing subjective about "good", or "bad" when talking about financial ramifications.

        The NDA is in place to prevent people from leaking information that will lead to lower profit. Since random people cannot be trusted to ascertain what is "good", or "bad", they have an NDA in place.

        If somebody leaks information that leads to a positive change in profit, it cannot be bad, regardless of how much of an NDA violation it is.

       

       You could punish the person, but for what? To prevent further NDA breaches? The entire concept of NDAs in beta (and not from employees) is ludicrous, since it is nearly impossible to enforce. Maybe laws like SOPA and PIPA will change that in the future, but until it becomes a crime to use a proxy, or you are forced to have a static IP, it's nothing more than an issue of damage control to put an upper bound on how much you can lose financially from idiots complaining about features that aren't complete.

    I suppose that all of this will be deleted and rightfully so, but I just had to speak my mind.

     

     

       

    This is a sequence of characters intended to produce some profound mental effect, but it has failed.

  • SuperXero89SuperXero89 Amory, MSPosts: 2,544Member Uncommon

    People are always going to break NDAs.  Crying about it isn't productive in the least.  Report the guy to mmorpg.com or Anet if you must and move on.

  • //\//\oo//\//\oo MalboroughPosts: 2,767Member

    Originally posted by Vannor

     

    I edited that post a little after you started quoting it.

    But no, that's not the reason I do it. I don't want him banned from the game, I want him to stop talking about the beta. This is about principles and morals. Thousands of testers want to do what he is doing but they don't.. why does this guy get to do it instead of them?

     

     

    It seems that live and let live isn't one of your principles. What he divulged, if it is even an NDA breach, is so trivial and does not fit the criteria of a damaging leak.

    The dangerous and blind enforcement of laws, morals and traditions is pretty much what constituted the dark ages.

    When people can't reason for themselves, or rely on authorities for all of their guidance, then they cease to be human beings and become implements.

    You obviously aren't blindly following laws/rules, but want to see his head on a platter for whatever reason.

     

     

    This is a sequence of characters intended to produce some profound mental effect, but it has failed.

  • VannorVannor YorkshirePosts: 2,968Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by //\//\oo

    Originally posted by Vannor


     

    I edited that post a little after you started quoting it.

    But no, that's not the reason I do it. I don't want him banned from the game, I want him to stop talking about the beta. This is about principles and morals. Thousands of testers want to do what he is doing but they don't.. why does this guy get to do it instead of them?

     

    It seems that live and let live isn't one of your principles. What he divulged, if it is even an NDA breach, is so trivial and does not fit the criteria of a damaging leak.

    The dangerous and blind enforcement of laws, morals and traditions is pretty much what constituted the dark ages.

    When people can't reason for themselves, or rely on authorities for all of their guidance, then they cease to be human beings and become implements.

    You obviously aren't blindly following laws/rules, but want to see his head on a platter for whatever reason.

    I've already said in the post you just quoted that I only want the beta talk to stop and that's all. Ignore what I said if you want and assume I'm not telling the truth. There's nothing else I can do except repeat myself. I actually hope he doesn't get banned and just realises he should stop talking about it.

    And for the record, just saying you were in the beta in a public way is an NDA breach. He has 100% broken the NDA by doing that alone. That is a fact, not an opinion, determined by what he himself agreed to.

  • ZylaxxZylaxx Erlanger, KYPosts: 2,574Member

    Originally posted by BlahTeeb

    I think the one thing most people do not seem to correlate is that events are replacing quests. Quests were never challenging (save for a very select few.)

    If you think of quests and how difficult they were, then events should be thought along the same difficulty. Events and quests serve the same purpose; grind away time while gaining experience. I personally believe events deliver the system better, but I don't look at events in a way that they should be more difficult then quests.

    Think of WoW or SWTOR or EQ where your first few quests were to go kill 10 mobs. These few quests to go kill 10 mobs were not very challenging. Now think of GW2's first few events in the same sense. They should be laid back and pretty basic.

     

    I have no doubt that PvP will be challenging though, especially since every player is pretty much the same in terms of capability. When you have two player that stand the same chance of winning, there is pretty much only one thing to dicide the victor. It won't be gear (as everyone automatically has the absolute top gear in PvP.) It won't be potions or some outter boost, as you are not affected by anything outside of the PvP arena. It won't be so much luck as the game has only one or two things that are based on dice rolls (compared to other games where you increase your block and/or dodge chances with boosts.)

    The two things that will determine a victor will be due to imbalance of the classes, and the actual player/team skills.

     

    Let's just hope ArenaNet introduces some type of hard mode like they did with GW1. Probably unlikely as the world is open. Although hard servers would be awesome too. :)

    Questing, well fed-ex styled WoW questing was always boring and bland and is the reason why I will never, ever, ever play another WoW quest style game as long as I live.  The only way to do character progression right is 1 of 3 ways.



    1. A Dynamic Event system like GW2 that gives the player a sense of exploration


    2. A quest system like Asherons Call that takes hours to finish 1 quest and lots of traps, puzzles, and jumping on top of killing bosses to complete.   OR


    3. A group based non static dungeon crawl'esque style  Similar to a Diablo, Fate or Sacred but set up as a group  


     

    Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online

    Playing: GW2
    Waiting on: TESO
    Next Flop: Planetside 2
    Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.

    image

  • UnlightUnlight Ottawa, ONPosts: 2,540Member

    Originally posted by //\//\oo

    TB is an entertainer. He only reviews games from companies that pay him to do so. How do you think he makes a living?

    If you take what he says without a grain of salt, then you deserve your misery.

    He's there to amuse you and get you to watch him while promoting a product. It's not a difficult concept to grasp; it's no different from any other commentator  you see on TV.

     

    Bullshit alert.

    He's got as many negative things to say about games as positive.  Many games he completely rakes over the coals.  I guess those are the ones that, what -- didn't pay him off enough?  Even as he's overall postive about his GW2 coverage, he points out several weaknesses that other "entertainers" gloss over or simply ignore.  Seems to me that if he was "promoting a product", he wouldn't be anywhere near as forthcoming about the problems and potential pitfalls that he describes.  He's obviously not earning his keep, is he?

    Seems that anyone who actually likes GW2 is a "fanboy" or a paid stooge these days.

     

  • UnlightUnlight Ottawa, ONPosts: 2,540Member

    Originally posted by Distopia

    Originally posted by Ruien

    You guys are something else.  Look down on the left hand side of the yellow bar at the bottom. ...

     

     

    The necro is LVL 2.  How many hits do you want to do in a group of 5 to kill 1 mob at LVL 2?  The footage STILL shows him going into the down state because he didnt play well AT LVL 2.

     

     

    You guys are genii. (pst thats plural for genius)

    My point was from a journalistic standpoint, which makes what the level was a moot point, he used that footage while talking about challenge, it just doesn't make sense. WHen you set out to show people wrong, it's usually a good rule of thumb to you know... show it? :p

    He uses a couple of different styles of video.  The first is where is makes comments specifically on a game he is playing and those always do refer to exactly what is happening on video.  That's how the "WTF is..." series works.  The other style is more like an editorial piece where he covers a number of subjects, makes comments and offers opinion, but instead of using background video as a direct reference, it's there as a moving backdrop to an article offered in verbal format.  This is how his Mailbag series works.  In that one, he takes viewer questions on nearly any topic and the roles some generic game footage in the background, usually whatever he has lying around that's long enough.  Recently, it's been Tribes Ascend because he's been playing it a lot.  Oddly enough, his questions rarely if ever are about Tribes Ascend.  The footage is only there because it's a video medium and he can't very well have a static, blank background for it.

    The video you are referring to is an editorial addressing a number of GW2 related topics and he is simply rolling some of his GW2 video behind it because it would be stupid to be rolling Tribes Ascend instead.  The Charrzooka video is an example of the former style where he his commenting on what's happening on the screen.  The editorial is no different than a text review showing stock screenshots of a game, simply because they break up what would otherwise be a wall of text.  They aren't there necessarily to support the content of the text.  They are just there as eyecandy.  Example: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/03/26/guild-wars-2-beta-preview/

    You may not agree with that style of commentary but his viewers are familiar with it and understand it.

  • //\//\oo//\//\oo MalboroughPosts: 2,767Member

    Originally posted by Unlight

     

    Bullshit alert.

    He's got as many negative things to say about games as positive.  Many games he completely rakes over the coals.  I guess those are the ones that, what -- didn't pay him off enough?  Even as he's overall postive about his GW2 coverage, he points out several weaknesses that other "entertainers" gloss over or simply ignore.  Seems to me that if he was "promoting a product", he wouldn't be anywhere near as forthcoming about the problems and potential pitfalls that he describes.  He's obviously not earning his keep, is he?

    Seems that anyone who actually likes GW2 is a "fanboy" or a paid stooge these days.

     

       

       Herp derp. Right, so he'd just let his credibility tank if he didn't criticize anything? Every review needs some criticism to make it plausible.

      He's not a stooge, he's an entertainer, which is what every professional game reviewer is, just like the Yogscast. The difference is in his style, but it is still in the same vein, even if it is more subtle.

     

     

     

    This is a sequence of characters intended to produce some profound mental effect, but it has failed.

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