He was drunk and rambling. When he recovered from his hangover and got off the plane he read what he actually said and apologised profusely. Also, it was billed as an unregulated unmoderated forum so CCP shouldnt be held responsible.
Moral of the story: Dont do press events when drunk
Also, someone should check on that suicidal dude.
They allready did, the dude is perfectly fine, he was even joking about it. Seriously, if the dude in question doesnt even care about it, then you people have only your own outrage to hang on to.
There is a bigger issue...The tollerance of this behavior.
If he gets away with this, then it's the new precedence of an acceptable baseline.
And claiming CCP has immunity can only go so far. This crossed over from inappropriate forum use into something way bigger. and CCP is not immune. Best case, this is a PR nightmare. and the more CCP stands behind this guy, the worse it could be.
I can only imagine what's going to happen if some non gaming public interest group gets wind of this.
Then we are all going to have to deal with this like when WoW was blamed for pedophilia.
dont know if this was posted but the incident is at 1 hour 3 minute on this video!as you can see drinking before a show like that wasnt the best idear on the planet!one guy had to wisper what to say to the other!ya very very bad lol!
Saying sorry doesnt make up for what he did, he commited a crime.
Could you please describe the actual crime that was committed? This was a dumb comment by a douche bag that had too much to drink and couldn't control the first words that pop across his mind. But thats hardly a crime, we've all said stupid things while drunk, the real question here is why CCP let him walk onto a panel drunk.
Saying sorry doesnt make up for what he did, he commited a crime.
Strange, I had this bizarre idea that that was for judicial systems to determine, not ranters on internet forums.
OJ Simpson would agree with this statement
Yes, OJ Simpson, like most people, probably is pleased that whether or not someone is guilty of breaking the law is determined ultimately by a jury of your peers, and not the internet mob.
Saying sorry doesnt make up for what he did, he commited a crime.
Could you please describe the actual crime that was committed? This was a dumb comment by a douche bag that had too much to drink and couldn't control the first words that pop across his mind. But thats hardly a crime, we've all said stupid things while drunk, the real question here is why CCP let him walk onto a panel drunk.
Saying sorry doesnt make up for what he did, he commited a crime.
Could you please describe the actual crime that was committed? This was a dumb comment by a douche bag that had too much to drink and couldn't control the first words that pop across his mind. But thats hardly a crime, we've all said stupid things while drunk, the real question here is why CCP let him walk onto a panel drunk.
why?if you listen after 1 hour 3 minute time mark,you ll see him take a drink!right after he say :this is how CCP IGNORE !they let him walk there cause they ignore us!and get drunk!we dont say it !ccp rep themself do it all and one of them say it loud and clear !cant be more obvious!
You do understand that being drunk and drinking alcohol isn't illegal, right? That what you are describing may be stupid in context, but isn't a crime?
I have not posted on this gaffe anywhere else. Clearly what The Mittani did was bad, and of course EvE's forums have tons of Goon banter shouting down people calling for resignations and so forth.
I think the answer is simple enough - give the player base a chance to vote no confidence in him as CSM chair, and even as a member of CSM7. Further, CCP should ban Goons from speaking at the alliance forum - perhaps permanently.
The game is great and the community is very good, sometimes people take being the villian too far.
I have not posted on this gaffe anywhere else. Clearly what The Mittani did was bad, and of course EvE's forums have tons of Goon banter shouting down people calling for resignations and so forth. I think the answer is simple enough - give the player base a chance to vote no confidence in him as CSM chair, and even as a member of CSM7. Further, CCP should ban Goons from speaking at the alliance forum - perhaps permanently. The game is great and the community is very good, sometimes people take being the villian too far.
I think this has gone beyond the game, do you really think CCP will risk him getting voted back in.
I have not posted on this gaffe anywhere else. Clearly what The Mittani did was bad, and of course EvE's forums have tons of Goon banter shouting down people calling for resignations and so forth.
I think the answer is simple enough - give the player base a chance to vote no confidence in him as CSM chair, and even as a member of CSM7. Further, CCP should ban Goons from speaking at the alliance forum - perhaps permanently.
The game is great and the community is very good, sometimes people take being the villian too far.
I think this has gone beyond the game, do you really think CCP will risk him getting voted back in.
Certainly there is something to be said for CCP needing to consider barring people from CSM elections when they do idiocy like this that could reflect legal liability on CCP.
God, could you even imagine how very ugly this sitaution could get for CCP if the player who was mocked actually did commit suicide after this?
If nothing else, when this CSM guy started going on about another player's private mental health issue they should have cut his microphone immediately. I would bet in the future they will have a no-alcohol policy for speakers prior to their speech.
I have not posted on this gaffe anywhere else. Clearly what The Mittani did was bad, and of course EvE's forums have tons of Goon banter shouting down people calling for resignations and so forth.
I think the answer is simple enough - give the player base a chance to vote no confidence in him as CSM chair, and even as a member of CSM7. Further, CCP should ban Goons from speaking at the alliance forum - perhaps permanently.
The game is great and the community is very good, sometimes people take being the villian too far.
I think this has gone beyond the game, do you really think CCP will risk him getting voted back in.
Certainly there is something to be said for CCP needing to consider barring people from CSM elections when they do idiocy like this that could reflect legal liability on CCP.
God, could you even imagine how very ugly this sitaution could get for CCP if the player who was mocked actually did commit suicide after this?
If nothing else, when this CSM guy started going on about another player's private mental health issue they should have cut his microphone immediately. I would bet in the future they will have a no-alcohol policy for speakers prior to their speech.
I have not posted on this gaffe anywhere else. Clearly what The Mittani did was bad, and of course EvE's forums have tons of Goon banter shouting down people calling for resignations and so forth.
I think the answer is simple enough - give the player base a chance to vote no confidence in him as CSM chair, and even as a member of CSM7. Further, CCP should ban Goons from speaking at the alliance forum - perhaps permanently.
The game is great and the community is very good, sometimes people take being the villian too far.
I think this has gone beyond the game, do you really think CCP will risk him getting voted back in.
Certainly there is something to be said for CCP needing to consider barring people from CSM elections when they do idiocy like this that could reflect legal liability on CCP.
God, could you even imagine how very ugly this sitaution could get for CCP if the player who was mocked actually did commit suicide after this?
If nothing else, when this CSM guy started going on about another player's private mental health issue they should have cut his microphone immediately. I would bet in the future they will have a no-alcohol policy for speakers prior to their speech.
And a kill switch.
This was at the Alliance discussion, not a CSM function, but still he is a public figure in the game. For a guy so into it that he even writes articles on the game it is really quite surprising.
The keys are: did he break rules of the CSM and did he violate the EULA? These things tend to be broad enough to allow a company to make decisions. I think because he stated (as a poor joke) for people to grief this guy in game to get an effect in real life, CCP may do something about it.
EvE prides itself on being a sandbox and being permissive to a point. This is over the line and making the comment at a CCP event is why the company is getting bad press. The moderator could not control it and I am sure CCP did not condone it.
It is a shame because Mittani has done a lot for the game and Goons are a strong alliance and overall add a lot to the game. BTW, the comment on banning Goons from the Alliance discussion is due to the fact that he is their CEO and represented them at this particular event, nothing against the alliance per se.
Man, he used an official CCP platform to call for the in game harassment of someone with mental health issues with the express purpose of driving him to commit suicide, this was publically broadcast as part of the CCP coverage of their official event. I am not really sure how it can A. Be justifiable. B. not be against their catch all ToS or C. In CCP's interests (especially with their new partners such as Sony's publicly stated policies on cyber bullying) to keep this clusterfuck rolling down the hill gaining bad publicity.
Alex Gianturco, the Mittani, needs to step up and step down fast.
...
I take it you've never visited the Something Awful.com forums to gain an understanding that he'll be considered a hero to the Goons, not a villian.
And as far as EVE goes, likely he controls the real life cash assets of the Goonswarm (which are very considerable), so will be hard to depose him.
See, since I'm kinda a prick, I'd ban his account and any account that had ever logged in from the same IP as his known accounts. If nothing else, just to watch the financial (in game) chaos and hope for delicious cries of nerdrage.
Well I agree if there are signs of GS abusing people in Real Life such as more than one of its members with all that happend then they shoudl ban, or suspend everyones account from Goon Squad unti investigation of all EveMail/Logs are done, and if harassment is found other than in game things such as Player Killing Ban those accounts.
The same type of harassment has been going on in Gamers First sandbox MMORPG called Fallen Earth by Exile (A tech clan) which is similar clan just like Goon Swarm, and I have documented evidence of harassment on myself with hundreds of snapshots, I have mailed it to G1, and yet another person is being stalked even after I changed my faction in game because they think that this person is me, and are witch hunting, and causing so much drama, even effecting others who have mental health issues as well with their harassment.
So really I do hope that CCP deals with the people involved in Goon Swarm, because online bullying in SandBox titles is getting worse, and I really do hope lawyers of this guy wins where he has mental issues or was just pretending to because it shows what online gamers are willing to do to others outside of a game.
If you want to get revenge in a game such as Player Killing, it is fine, but to do constant harassment in a MMO title to the point where a player can no longer enjoy the game and take the stalking outside the service there should be serious concequences for it. Also the fact that he was drunk and doesnt remember what he said I laugh because it smells like a troll, and even if he was drunk out of his mind then he must have wanted some kind of revenge on the person.
Has everyone watched what was said in context and in it's entirety. Was it funny, probably not all that, but I didn't find it all that offensive either and I really didn't get the impression he was bullying the guy. The feeling I did get was a bunch of pretty sad people getting drunk, perhaps to forget something (I'll stop there avoiding another warning/ban).
It was a mistake to give out the guys char name but if you watch you can see this was a stupid mistake done after his presentation. So while many think there are good reasons the goons should have various nasty think happen to them, my real impression was that this guy probably should learn how to handle his drink. It would be pretty difficult to take anything this guy said seriously, he's a geek posterboy, quite embarassing in all. tbh the whole panel and watching the vid is cringe worthy, maybe it's just me, you ever get the feeling you stepped into the wrong room..?
----- The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species.
Man, he used an official CCP platform to call for the in game harassment of someone with mental health issues with the express purpose of driving him to commit suicide, this was publically broadcast as part of the CCP coverage of their official event. I am not really sure how it can A. Be justifiable. B. not be against their catch all ToS or C. In CCP's interests (especially with their new partners such as Sony's publicly stated policies on cyber bullying) to keep this clusterfuck rolling down the hill gaining bad publicity.
Alex Gianturco, the Mittani, needs to step up and step down fast.
Agreed. There has to be consequences for this kind of behaviour as it is far beyond hardcore PvP behaviour. Cyber bullying is something real, one that has shown to lead to suicide in some cases. And knowingly doing it against someone who is allegedly suicidal already?
There is no excuse really... at the very least the Goons, or whatever these idiots are called, need to stay away from this guy.
I take it you've never visited the Something Awful.com forums to gain an understanding that he'll be considered a hero to the Goons, not a villian.
And as far as EVE goes, likely he controls the real life cash assets of the Goonswarm (which are very considerable), so will be hard to depose him.
Don't see how any of that is relevant. He did that was simply put wrong, un-ethical and against the TOS. For this there should be consequences, period. Question is if CCP has the balls to do something, seeing as this guy seems to be a prominent figure. I am guessing not.
Man, he used an official CCP platform to call for the in game harassment of someone with mental health issues with the express purpose of driving him to commit suicide, this was publically broadcast as part of the CCP coverage of their official event. I am not really sure how it can A. Be justifiable. B. not be against their catch all ToS or C. In CCP's interests (especially with their new partners such as Sony's publicly stated policies on cyber bullying) to keep this clusterfuck rolling down the hill gaining bad publicity.
Alex Gianturco, the Mittani, needs to step up and step down fast.
Agreed. There has to be consequences for this kind of behaviour as it is far beyond hardcore PvP behaviour. Cyber bullying is something real, one that has shown to lead to suicide in some cases. And knowingly doing it against someone who is allegedly suicidal already?
There is no excuse really... at the very least the Goons, or whatever these idiots are called, need to stay away from this guy.
I take it you've never visited the Something Awful.com forums to gain an understanding that he'll be considered a hero to the Goons, not a villian.
And as far as EVE goes, likely he controls the real life cash assets of the Goonswarm (which are very considerable), so will be hard to depose him.
Don't see how any of that is relevant. He did that was simply put wrong, un-ethical and against the TOS. For this there should be consequences, period. Question is if CCP has the balls to do something, seeing as this guy seems to be a prominent figure. I am guessing not.
What ToS? The ToS is only there ingame not in real life.
Man, he used an official CCP platform to call for the in game harassment of someone with mental health issues with the express purpose of driving him to commit suicide, this was publically broadcast as part of the CCP coverage of their official event. I am not really sure how it can A. Be justifiable. B. not be against their catch all ToS or C. In CCP's interests (especially with their new partners such as Sony's publicly stated policies on cyber bullying) to keep this clusterfuck rolling down the hill gaining bad publicity. Alex Gianturco, the Mittani, needs to step up and step down fast.
Agreed. There has to be consequences for this kind of behaviour as it is far beyond hardcore PvP behaviour. Cyber bullying is something real, one that has shown to lead to suicide in some cases. And knowingly doing it against someone who is allegedly suicidal already?
There is no excuse really... at the very least the Goons, or whatever these idiots are called, need to stay away from this guy.
I take it you've never visited the Something Awful.com forums to gain an understanding that he'll be considered a hero to the Goons, not a villian.
And as far as EVE goes, likely he controls the real life cash assets of the Goonswarm (which are very considerable), so will be hard to depose him.
Don't see how any of that is relevant. He did that was simply put wrong, un-ethical and against the TOS. For this there should be consequences, period. Question is if CCP has the balls to do something, seeing as this guy seems to be a prominent figure. I am guessing not.
What ToS? The ToS is only there ingame not in real life.
1. You may not abuse, harass or threaten another player or authorized representative of CCP, including customer service personnel and volunteers. This includes, but is not limited to: petitioning with false information in an attempt to gain from it or have someone else suffer from it; sending excessive e-mails, EVE-mails or petitions; obstructing CCP Employees from doing their jobs; refusal to follow the instructions of a CCP Employee; or implying favoritism by a CCP Employee.
2. You may not use any abusive, defamatory, ethnically or racially offensive, harassing, harmful, hateful, obscene, offensive, sexually explicit, threatening or vulgar language. (Alternate spelling or partial masking of such words will be reprimanded in the same manner as the actual use of such words.)
3. You may not organize nor be a member of any corporation or group within EVE Online that is based on or advocates any anti-ethnic, anti-gay, anti-religious, racist, sexist or other hate-mongering philosophies
4. You may not use role-playing as an excuse to violate these rules. While EVE Online is a persistent world, fantasy role-playing game, the claim of role-playing is not an acceptable defense for anti-social behavior. Role-playing is encouraged, but not at the expense of other player. You may not create or participate in a corporation or group that habitually violates this policy.
5. You will report out-of-game issues regarding harassment, such as threatening phone calls or correspondence, to your local law enforcement officials or Internet provider. CCP will not reveal personal information about its subscribers to unauthorized individuals. We are not responsible for actions taken by our subscribers that occur outside the jurisdiction of our game servers or web site.
Well Rules 1 to 5 right at the top of the ToS would appear to cover most of the bases. As I replied to you in the other thread yesterday, why don't you tell us how these don't cover his actions
Comments
There is a bigger issue...The tollerance of this behavior.
If he gets away with this, then it's the new precedence of an acceptable baseline.
And claiming CCP has immunity can only go so far. This crossed over from inappropriate forum use into something way bigger. and CCP is not immune. Best case, this is a PR nightmare. and the more CCP stands behind this guy, the worse it could be.
I can only imagine what's going to happen if some non gaming public interest group gets wind of this.
Then we are all going to have to deal with this like when WoW was blamed for pedophilia.
dont know if this was posted but the incident is at 1 hour 3 minute on this video!as you can see drinking before a show like that wasnt the best idear on the planet!one guy had to wisper what to say to the other!ya very very bad lol!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7Ki91U-mBE&feature=player_embeddedi
Could you please describe the actual crime that was committed? This was a dumb comment by a douche bag that had too much to drink and couldn't control the first words that pop across his mind. But thats hardly a crime, we've all said stupid things while drunk, the real question here is why CCP let him walk onto a panel drunk.
lol crominal
Yes, OJ Simpson, like most people, probably is pleased that whether or not someone is guilty of breaking the law is determined ultimately by a jury of your peers, and not the internet mob.
You do understand that being drunk and drinking alcohol isn't illegal, right? That what you are describing may be stupid in context, but isn't a crime?
And for God's sake, write intelligibly.
I have not posted on this gaffe anywhere else. Clearly what The Mittani did was bad, and of course EvE's forums have tons of Goon banter shouting down people calling for resignations and so forth.
I think the answer is simple enough - give the player base a chance to vote no confidence in him as CSM chair, and even as a member of CSM7. Further, CCP should ban Goons from speaking at the alliance forum - perhaps permanently.
The game is great and the community is very good, sometimes people take being the villian too far.
I think this has gone beyond the game, do you really think CCP will risk him getting voted back in.Certainly there is something to be said for CCP needing to consider barring people from CSM elections when they do idiocy like this that could reflect legal liability on CCP.
God, could you even imagine how very ugly this sitaution could get for CCP if the player who was mocked actually did commit suicide after this?
If nothing else, when this CSM guy started going on about another player's private mental health issue they should have cut his microphone immediately. I would bet in the future they will have a no-alcohol policy for speakers prior to their speech.
Lol, no.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
And a kill switch.
Main Account or this didn't happen!
This was at the Alliance discussion, not a CSM function, but still he is a public figure in the game. For a guy so into it that he even writes articles on the game it is really quite surprising.
The keys are: did he break rules of the CSM and did he violate the EULA? These things tend to be broad enough to allow a company to make decisions. I think because he stated (as a poor joke) for people to grief this guy in game to get an effect in real life, CCP may do something about it.
EvE prides itself on being a sandbox and being permissive to a point. This is over the line and making the comment at a CCP event is why the company is getting bad press. The moderator could not control it and I am sure CCP did not condone it.
It is a shame because Mittani has done a lot for the game and Goons are a strong alliance and overall add a lot to the game. BTW, the comment on banning Goons from the Alliance discussion is due to the fact that he is their CEO and represented them at this particular event, nothing against the alliance per se.
See, since I'm kinda a prick, I'd ban his account and any account that had ever logged in from the same IP as his known accounts. If nothing else, just to watch the financial (in game) chaos and hope for delicious cries of nerdrage.
Harsh...of course this is why people have passion about EvE...
True justice from CCP would be permanently ban this guy from the game.
Sieze all assests associated with GS.
Disband the corp.
Interestingly enough, I could see the power struggle that ensued after that to fill that vacuum as good for the game.
Well I agree if there are signs of GS abusing people in Real Life such as more than one of its members with all that happend then they shoudl ban, or suspend everyones account from Goon Squad unti investigation of all EveMail/Logs are done, and if harassment is found other than in game things such as Player Killing Ban those accounts.
The same type of harassment has been going on in Gamers First sandbox MMORPG called Fallen Earth by Exile (A tech clan) which is similar clan just like Goon Swarm, and I have documented evidence of harassment on myself with hundreds of snapshots, I have mailed it to G1, and yet another person is being stalked even after I changed my faction in game because they think that this person is me, and are witch hunting, and causing so much drama, even effecting others who have mental health issues as well with their harassment.
So really I do hope that CCP deals with the people involved in Goon Swarm, because online bullying in SandBox titles is getting worse, and I really do hope lawyers of this guy wins where he has mental issues or was just pretending to because it shows what online gamers are willing to do to others outside of a game.
If you want to get revenge in a game such as Player Killing, it is fine, but to do constant harassment in a MMO title to the point where a player can no longer enjoy the game and take the stalking outside the service there should be serious concequences for it. Also the fact that he was drunk and doesnt remember what he said I laugh because it smells like a troll, and even if he was drunk out of his mind then he must have wanted some kind of revenge on the person.
Good for the game in what sense? Losing thousands of subs?
Yep, but if they are fish/egg vegitarians it only makes them sub-human.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
Ohhh, you are right!!!!!!!
Sorry.
I retract my statement
[Mod Edit]
Has everyone watched what was said in context and in it's entirety. Was it funny, probably not all that, but I didn't find it all that offensive either and I really didn't get the impression he was bullying the guy. The feeling I did get was a bunch of pretty sad people getting drunk, perhaps to forget something (I'll stop there avoiding another warning/ban).
It was a mistake to give out the guys char name but if you watch you can see this was a stupid mistake done after his presentation. So while many think there are good reasons the goons should have various nasty think happen to them, my real impression was that this guy probably should learn how to handle his drink. It would be pretty difficult to take anything this guy said seriously, he's a geek posterboy, quite embarassing in all. tbh the whole panel and watching the vid is cringe worthy, maybe it's just me, you ever get the feeling you stepped into the wrong room..?
-----
The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species.
Don't see how any of that is relevant. He did that was simply put wrong, un-ethical and against the TOS. For this there should be consequences, period. Question is if CCP has the balls to do something, seeing as this guy seems to be a prominent figure. I am guessing not.
My gaming blog
What ToS? The ToS is only there ingame not in real life.
Agreed. There has to be consequences for this kind of behaviour as it is far beyond hardcore PvP behaviour. Cyber bullying is something real, one that has shown to lead to suicide in some cases. And knowingly doing it against someone who is allegedly suicidal already?
There is no excuse really... at the very least the Goons, or whatever these idiots are called, need to stay away from this guy.
I take it you've never visited the Something Awful.com forums to gain an understanding that he'll be considered a hero to the Goons, not a villian.
And as far as EVE goes, likely he controls the real life cash assets of the Goonswarm (which are very considerable), so will be hard to depose him.
Don't see how any of that is relevant. He did that was simply put wrong, un-ethical and against the TOS. For this there should be consequences, period. Question is if CCP has the balls to do something, seeing as this guy seems to be a prominent figure. I am guessing not.
What ToS? The ToS is only there ingame not in real life.
1. You may not abuse, harass or threaten another player or authorized representative of CCP, including customer service personnel and volunteers. This includes, but is not limited to: petitioning with false information in an attempt to gain from it or have someone else suffer from it; sending excessive e-mails, EVE-mails or petitions; obstructing CCP Employees from doing their jobs; refusal to follow the instructions of a CCP Employee; or implying favoritism by a CCP Employee.
2. You may not use any abusive, defamatory, ethnically or racially offensive, harassing, harmful, hateful, obscene, offensive, sexually explicit, threatening or vulgar language. (Alternate spelling or partial masking of such words will be reprimanded in the same manner as the actual use of such words.)
3. You may not organize nor be a member of any corporation or group within EVE Online that is based on or advocates any anti-ethnic, anti-gay, anti-religious, racist, sexist or other hate-mongering philosophies
4. You may not use role-playing as an excuse to violate these rules. While EVE Online is a persistent world, fantasy role-playing game, the claim of role-playing is not an acceptable defense for anti-social behavior. Role-playing is encouraged, but not at the expense of other player. You may not create or participate in a corporation or group that habitually violates this policy.
5. You will report out-of-game issues regarding harassment, such as threatening phone calls or correspondence, to your local law enforcement officials or Internet provider. CCP will not reveal personal information about its subscribers to unauthorized individuals. We are not responsible for actions taken by our subscribers that occur outside the jurisdiction of our game servers or web site.Well Rules 1 to 5 right at the top of the ToS would appear to cover most of the bases. As I replied to you in the other thread yesterday, why don't you tell us how these don't cover his actions