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Guild wars 2 Time spent not rewarded?

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  • SuraknarSuraknar Montreal, QCPosts: 824Member

    Originally posted by hypersan

    Originally posted by Ankur


    Originally posted by evilastro


    Originally posted by L0C0Man

    Gear does matter, but it isn't that difficult to obtain (like in GW1), meaning that the guy that was just boosted to 80 will still not be as powerful as you are if you got to 80 the regular way because you'll have unlocked/gotten more skills and better gear than he does. If you've been 80 for a while and the new guy got to 80 recently, however, the gear gap will not be as big as it would be in WoW, for example, if there is one at all.

    Incorrect. If you go to the Mists (PvP zones) you get given a full set of level 80 gear and full access to all skills and traits. A level 1 who is bolstered to 80 is the same as a level 80 player.

    I really doubt that since that lvl 80 will have more skills to choose from compared to lvl 1 character and what lvl 80 is wearing will be definitely better than what lvl 1 is wearing. Even GW1 had stats on armors even though not extreme to the extent we see in other MMOS but GW2 has stats on gears.

    No 

    gear will be the same. 

    only looks will change. 

    And it is fine like that and great.

    having FUn means being able to interact with many other players. If the system permits a lvl 1 to join the fight then I say the more the marrier, Hurray!

    Fun does not come from parading our Gear to the Lowbies or by Having more Material things then others. This is a very materialistic point of view "I have more therefore I should be better"...

    Fun comes from the Interaction of our Actions.

    - Duke Suraknar -
    Order of the Silver Star, OSS

    image
    ESKA, Playing MMORPG's since Ultima Online 1997 - Order of the Silver Serpent, Atlantic Shard

  • hypersanhypersan kingstonPosts: 63Member

    Originally posted by Ankur

    Originally posted by hypersan


    Originally posted by Ankur


    Originally posted by evilastro


    Originally posted by L0C0Man

    Gear does matter, but it isn't that difficult to obtain (like in GW1), meaning that the guy that was just boosted to 80 will still not be as powerful as you are if you got to 80 the regular way because you'll have unlocked/gotten more skills and better gear than he does. If you've been 80 for a while and the new guy got to 80 recently, however, the gear gap will not be as big as it would be in WoW, for example, if there is one at all.

    Incorrect. If you go to the Mists (PvP zones) you get given a full set of level 80 gear and full access to all skills and traits. A level 1 who is bolstered to 80 is the same as a level 80 player.

    I really doubt that since that lvl 80 will have more skills to choose from compared to lvl 1 character and what lvl 80 is wearing will be definitely better than what lvl 1 is wearing. Even GW1 had stats on armors even though not extreme to the extent we see in other MMOS but GW2 has stats on gears.

    No 

    gear will be the same. 

    only looks will change. 

    I would like to see that once the game releases because i doubt that what lvl 1 is wearing will have same stats as what lvl 80 is wearing not to mention the poll of skills avilable to lvl 80 compared to lvl 1 player.

     

     

    OK :) we will see I guess.

  • KellerKeller UtrechtPosts: 254Member

    MMOs are for most players also about social interaction.

    Time Spend vs Reward is a weird motivation to play a mmo. For example in World of Warcraft I levelled a Holy Priest from 1 to 60, with only a holy spec. It took me about 40 seconds to kill a single mob versus a rogue friend who could sometimes oneshot  the same mob or only spend 6 seconds to kill it. Blizzard ripped me off.  

    Another weird motivation is that gear > skill. You really want to be the best because your gear is better? I prefer to be better because I have better skills, better understanding of the mechanics and better teamwork.

    Getting back to rewards (items). I cannot count the hours I have spend in Molten Core to help a friend getting a specific drop. Either it was to get that one drop for Thunderfury or just farming mobs for fiery cores to increase reputation, so he could get recipes to craft fire resistance gear. I was not there for myself, nor the other 38 players. We did it to help eachother out. Getting rewarded by gear that dropped was just a bonus.

    I'm not in GW2 beta, so I can not tell for sure, but it's hard to imagine that you can only farm nodes as endgame.

  • KakkzookaKakkzooka Waterbury, CTPosts: 591Member

    Maybe I'm weird, but the time I spend in any game IS the reward. If you aren't enjoying the time, why fucking bother?

    Re: SWTOR

    "Remember, remember - Kakk says 'December.'"

  • VolkonVolkon Sterling, VAPosts: 3,788Member

    Gear matters to a degree, there's just no treadmill. Obviously level 80 gear is better than level 40.

     

    There are better ways to reward your time than to turn you into a hamster.

    Oderint, dum metuant.
    image

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Posts: 14,783Member Uncommon

    If you don't think the game is fun, then maybe you shouldn't play it.  And if you do, then why isn't that sufficient reward?

  • AnkurAnkur MarrakeshPosts: 334Member

    Originally posted by Khealler

    MMOs are for most players also about social interaction.

    Time Spend vs Reward is a weird motivation to play a mmo. For example in World of Warcraft I levelled a Holy Priest from 1 to 60, with only a holy spec. It took me about 40 seconds to kill a single mob versus a rogue friend who could sometimes oneshot  the same mob or only spend 6 seconds to kill it. Blizzard ripped me off.  

    Another weird motivation is that gear > skill. You really want to be the best because your gear is better? I prefer to be better because I have better skills, better understanding of the mechanics and better teamwork.

    Getting back to rewards (items). I cannot count the hours I have spend in Molten Core to help a friend getting a specific drop. Either it was to get that one drop for Thunderfury or just farming mobs for fiery cores to increase reputation, so he could get recipes to craft fire resistance gear. I was not there for myself, nor the other 38 players. We did it to help eachother out. Getting rewarded by gear that dropped was just a bonus.

    I'm not in GW2 beta, so I can not tell for sure, but it's hard to imagine that you can only farm nodes as endgame.

    Regarding that point you think in GW2 all classes will be able to kill mobs at same speed and at sme ease? gaar or no gear checks i doubt that a Thief and a Warrior can kill mobs with equal efficency.

  • ButregenyoButregenyo IstanbulPosts: 483Member

    getting strong depending on your gameplay time is plain stupid. Besides it is rewarded in many ways, we loved playing gw1 pve just for cool skins. Title farming is a fun time-sink imo, i dont want to have increased dmg number just because i spent more time on the game than a working dad :P.

  • hypersanhypersan kingstonPosts: 63Member

    Originally posted by Khealler

    MMOs are for most players also about social interaction.

    Time Spend vs Reward is a weird motivation to play a mmo. For example in World of Warcraft I levelled a Holy Priest from 1 to 60, with only a holy spec. It took me about 40 seconds to kill a single mob versus a rogue friend who could sometimes oneshot  the same mob or only spend 6 seconds to kill it. Blizzard ripped me off.  

    Another weird motivation is that gear > skill. You really want to be the best because your gear is better? I prefer to be better because I have better skills, better understanding of the mechanics and better teamwork.

    Getting back to rewards (items). I cannot count the hours I have spend in Molten Core to help a friend getting a specific drop. Either it was to get that one drop for Thunderfury or just farming mobs for fiery cores to increase reputation, so he could get recipes to craft fire resistance gear. I was not there for myself, nor the other 38 players. We did it to help eachother out. Getting rewarded by gear that dropped was just a bonus.

    I'm not in GW2 beta, so I can not tell for sure, but it's hard to imagine that you can only farm nodes as endgame.

    The prestige that one obtained by having thunderfury will be mirrored by having very very very rare weapon skins. 

     

    The weapons will of course have there damage normalised in with all other level 80 gear. It will be difficult for 38 people to help one get this weapon skin because the most exclusive stuff seems to come from 5 mans. These 5 mans currently have no room for carrying another person who is not skillful therefore each member of the party needs to be on point at all times. 

    The loot is still there however it wont make you more powerful. You cannot progress your charachter in this manner. 

    Charachter progression in this game is where you have been and what you have seen and the proof to show it. 

    Elitism will exist and may very well be worst than in WOW

  • RequiamerRequiamer ???Posts: 2,034Member

     






    Originally posted by Khealler

    MMOs are for most players also about social interaction.

    Time Spend vs Reward is a weird motivation to play a mmo. For example in World of Warcraft I levelled a Holy Priest from 1 to 60, with only a holy spec. It took me about 40 seconds to kill a single mob versus a rogue friend who could sometimes oneshot  the same mob or only spend 6 seconds to kill it. Blizzard ripped me off.  

    Another weird motivation is that gear > skill. You really want to be the best because your gear is better? I prefer to be better because I have better skills, better understanding of the mechanics and better teamwork.

    Getting back to rewards (items). I cannot count the hours I have spend in Molten Core to help a friend getting a specific drop. Either it was to get that one drop for Thunderfury or just farming mobs for fiery cores to increase reputation, so he could get recipes to craft fire resistance gear. I was not there for myself, nor the other 38 players. We did it to help eachother out. Getting rewarded by gear that dropped was just a bonus.

    I'm not in GW2 beta, so I can not tell for sure, but it's hard to imagine that you can only farm nodes as endgame.



     

    No its not weird, it come from the old rpg where you had to simulate the fact that your character will become better at whatever he do when getting experience. Its just that this simulation isn't very realistically ported in those game, because they follow very simplistic rules. Also the fact player skill become a factor is something that only computer game can afford, in old school rpg and pen& paper, there is no "player skill". So ye this blending between the old school rpg and modern computer game rpg is about this too.

    PS: And this also where come from the tab targeting vs fps combat systems debate.

  • blayugsblayugs edinburghPosts: 108Member

    My reward will be winning pvp against the people that QQ in forums.

  • BoneserinoBoneserino London, ONPosts: 1,623Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by DeserttFoxx

    From what i understand so far, gear means nothing in Guild wars 2, in both pvp and pve. So that means if you spend hours farming items you wont be better then a dude who say.. just created his character and was boosted to level 80. Gathering nodes are for everyone, so that means everyone can gather from a single node once before it goes away.

     

    So i ask, is time spent playing the game not rewarded? When gear doesnt matter at all, how is it any different then playing call of duty or any other fps game? Why are we doing dungeons if the gear you aquire doesnt matter at all?

     

    Please for the love of fucking christ, stop saying for fun. maybe i am not apart of the generation that find everyone being equal all the time to be fun. I think if i spend 40 hours a week farming dungeons while some guy logs on for 2 hours a day just to explore, /dance on a mail box and maybe pvp for 30minutes before he goes for his dinner with the wife and kids, we should not be equal.

     

    It seems like the concensus i am getting from all these news videos are, people love the idea of everything being equal, and the only diversity comes from costume looks. Im not sure when MMOs became about playing barbie, but i want to do a lot more then just dress of my character to set myself apart from the rest.

     

    Are people really for gear not affecting anything at all besides looks? IN pvp and pve?

    Yea I see your point, but aren't you just getting on a treadmill of another kind?   You get to max level and geared out but then doesn't some other guy come along and  do the same thing?  And once you have those then they release some new type of uber gear that you must have and you chase that too, and on, and on and on.

    And then of course there is the skill vs. gear argument !

    Anet simply said "screw that"!  Play the game, get the gear, and then go play some nice balanced skill based PvP and kick the living sh*t out of each other!!

    Shouldn't everyone be happy with that?   Or is all about you and your lower appendage?

    FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!

  • SuraknarSuraknar Montreal, QCPosts: 824Member

    Originally posted by blayugs

    My reward will be winning pvp against the people that QQ in forums.

    Hahaha, this made me laugh. Thanks :)

    - Duke Suraknar -
    Order of the Silver Star, OSS

    image
    ESKA, Playing MMORPG's since Ultima Online 1997 - Order of the Silver Serpent, Atlantic Shard

  • evilastroevilastro EdinburghPosts: 4,270Member

    Originally posted by blayugs

    My reward will be winning pvp against the people that QQ in forums.

    My reward will be winning pvp against the people that think they paid to win.

  • XzenXzen Los Alamos, NMPosts: 2,607Member Common

    As a completionist when it come to many games. Obtaining skins trophies and experiencing all of the story and content will likely keep me playing for a long time.

  • ZippyZippy NY, NYPosts: 1,412Member

    You will have an advantage in that you can play your charatcer better because you play more.  But GW2's design is more fps and not rpg.  The game is geared and targetted more to casual players than MMO veterans and hardcore players.  I am sure many hardcore players wil play GW2 but more as a side game than main game. But the target market is not hardcore or even close. 

  • ariboersmaariboersma Yankton, SDPosts: 1,802Member

    Originally posted by Ankur

    Originally posted by Cromica

    snip since the it has nothing to do with what Ankur said =P

    GW2 focuses as much as on pve as it does on pvp and imo even more on PVE in some ways.

    this and to OP the gear system works very well in GW1. The system in GW2 is more developed than in GW1 to make the gear actually mean more. It forces you to play the game and play it well or move on. If you only want to raid and NEED the new gear to do more damage in a never ending cycle.. not the game for you.

    image

  • blayugsblayugs edinburghPosts: 108Member

    Originally posted by Zippy

    You will have an advantage in that you can play your charatcer better because you play more.  But GW2's design is more fps and not rpg.  The game is geared and targetted more to casual players than MMO veterans and hardcore players.  I am sure many hardcore players wil play GW2 but more as a side game than main game. But the target market is not hardcore or even close. 

    I think it caters more to PVP players and Roleplaying players which to me seems to be a bigger portion of players than those who only like to pve grind and do none of the above.

  • Eir_SEir_S Argyle, NYPosts: 4,623Member

    Originally posted by Ankur

    Originally posted by Cromica

    GW2 is a skill based game that features Player vs Player not Player vs Gear.

    GW2 focuses as much as on pve as it does on pvp and imo even more on PVE in some ways.

    You didn't refute his point at all.

  • KellerKeller UtrechtPosts: 254Member

    Originally posted by Requiamer

     






    Originally posted by Khealler

    MMOs are for most players also about social interaction.

    Time Spend vs Reward is a weird motivation to play a mmo. For example in World of Warcraft I levelled a Holy Priest from 1 to 60, with only a holy spec. It took me about 40 seconds to kill a single mob versus a rogue friend who could sometimes oneshot  the same mob or only spend 6 seconds to kill it. Blizzard ripped me off.  

    Another weird motivation is that gear > skill. You really want to be the best because your gear is better? I prefer to be better because I have better skills, better understanding of the mechanics and better teamwork.

    Getting back to rewards (items). I cannot count the hours I have spend in Molten Core to help a friend getting a specific drop. Either it was to get that one drop for Thunderfury or just farming mobs for fiery cores to increase reputation, so he could get recipes to craft fire resistance gear. I was not there for myself, nor the other 38 players. We did it to help eachother out. Getting rewarded by gear that dropped was just a bonus.

    I'm not in GW2 beta, so I can not tell for sure, but it's hard to imagine that you can only farm nodes as endgame.




     

    No its not weird, it come from the old rpg where you had to simulate the fact that your character will become better at whatever he do when getting experience. Its just that this simulation isn't very realistically ported in those game, because they follow very simplistic rules. Also the fact player skill become a factor is something that only computer game can afford, in old school rpg and pen& paper, there is no "player skill". So ye this blending between the old school rpg and modern computer game rpg is about this too.

    PS: And this also where come from the tab targeting vs fps combat systems debate.

    I'm not going to discuss pen and paper versus mmos.

    OP was talking about endgame. He was worried about not having a gearwise advantage over someone who didn't spend as much time as him. If it's about statistics you also could play a turnbased game or a real time strategy game. Let the computer calculate the outcome of the battle. We could even start playing text-based mud games again. Or will gamemasters run around ingame and flipping ingame coins when 2 players with the exact same gear duel eachother? Realtime MMOs will be pretty dull when no playerskill is required.

    PS : Who's talking about tab-targetting?

     

  • st4t1ckst4t1ck jonesboro, GAPosts: 600Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by evilastro

    Originally posted by Ankur


    Originally posted by evilastro


    Originally posted by L0C0Man

    Gear does matter, but it isn't that difficult to obtain (like in GW1), meaning that the guy that was just boosted to 80 will still not be as powerful as you are if you got to 80 the regular way because you'll have unlocked/gotten more skills and better gear than he does. If you've been 80 for a while and the new guy got to 80 recently, however, the gear gap will not be as big as it would be in WoW, for example, if there is one at all.

    Incorrect. If you go to the Mists (PvP zones) you get given a full set of level 80 gear and full access to all skills and traits. A level 1 who is bolstered to 80 is the same as a level 80 player.

    I really doubt that since that lvl 80 will have more skills to choose from compared to lvl 1 character and what lvl 80 is wearing will be definitely better than what lvl 1 is wearing. Even GW1 had stats on armors even though not extreme to the extent we see in other MMOS but GW2 has stats on gears.

    Read what I said.

    you get the full set of gear and skills for Structured.  you do not get gear or skills for WvW  only a bolstered level

  • blayugsblayugs edinburghPosts: 108Member

    Originally posted by st4t1ck

    Originally posted by evilastro


    Originally posted by Ankur


    Originally posted by evilastro


    Originally posted by L0C0Man

    Gear does matter, but it isn't that difficult to obtain (like in GW1), meaning that the guy that was just boosted to 80 will still not be as powerful as you are if you got to 80 the regular way because you'll have unlocked/gotten more skills and better gear than he does. If you've been 80 for a while and the new guy got to 80 recently, however, the gear gap will not be as big as it would be in WoW, for example, if there is one at all.

    Incorrect. If you go to the Mists (PvP zones) you get given a full set of level 80 gear and full access to all skills and traits. A level 1 who is bolstered to 80 is the same as a level 80 player.

    I really doubt that since that lvl 80 will have more skills to choose from compared to lvl 1 character and what lvl 80 is wearing will be definitely better than what lvl 1 is wearing. Even GW1 had stats on armors even though not extreme to the extent we see in other MMOS but GW2 has stats on gears.

    Read what I said.

    you get the full set of gear and skills for Structured.  you do not get gear or skills for WvW  only a bolstered level

    I dont remember that being mentioned in any of the press releases.

    Did you play the beta st4t1ck

  • SojhinSojhin Tacoma, WAPosts: 213Member

    Originally posted by Alders

    Gear affecting PVP is and will always be stupid. 

    As far as PVE goes, i have a sneaky suspicion that the progression is going to be similar in a way to FFXI.  Obviously not to that extreme since gear swaps on the fly are not possible in GW2, but people will be after many different sets of gear for certain specific things.

    The whole having 1 set of gear being the best is out the window and i'm really happy about that.  I cannot stress how much i hate tiered sets that have everyone looking exactly the same.

     

     

    Gear affecting pvp allows player skill to shine through in more ways than merely the actions in combat. I do argue and believe that there should be some sort of progression in gear for pvp. You speak of gear progression in pve and the need for switching to different sets and this same principle matters in pvp. One person may choose to wear gear that is effective at blocking fire damage, another against slash damage, etc, and all of these choices should be ones that make gear matter.

    If one were to examine guildwars 2--one flaw that is already present--is that it is not designed for open world pvp where controling mob spawns would equal the ability to both harvest and potentially create "better" pvp gear. What we have instead is the WvW which in my estimation is more akin to  the UO Trammal server with even greater restrictions. None of this bodes well for pvp beyond having it as a esport (arena/WvW) and open world pvp instead--the guild vs guild, player vs player politics are not promoted nor likely to form. 

    Gear should matter in pvp if perhaps not as much as choices at least enough to where it is a concern. An example of this that comes to mind is real world combat (e.g., bigger gun wins, better armored wins, tactically geared for the right occasion wins, etc etc etc).

  • st4t1ckst4t1ck jonesboro, GAPosts: 600Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by blayugs

    Originally posted by st4t1ck


    Originally posted by evilastro


    Originally posted by Ankur


    Originally posted by evilastro


    Originally posted by L0C0Man

    Gear does matter, but it isn't that difficult to obtain (like in GW1), meaning that the guy that was just boosted to 80 will still not be as powerful as you are if you got to 80 the regular way because you'll have unlocked/gotten more skills and better gear than he does. If you've been 80 for a while and the new guy got to 80 recently, however, the gear gap will not be as big as it would be in WoW, for example, if there is one at all.

    Incorrect. If you go to the Mists (PvP zones) you get given a full set of level 80 gear and full access to all skills and traits. A level 1 who is bolstered to 80 is the same as a level 80 player.

    I really doubt that since that lvl 80 will have more skills to choose from compared to lvl 1 character and what lvl 80 is wearing will be definitely better than what lvl 1 is wearing. Even GW1 had stats on armors even though not extreme to the extent we see in other MMOS but GW2 has stats on gears.

    Read what I said.

    you get the full set of gear and skills for Structured.  you do not get gear or skills for WvW  only a bolstered level

    I dont remember that being mentioned in any of the press releases.

    Did you play the beta st4t1ck

    Nope but the info isnt from the beta, its been fully documented that structured pvp is supposed to be on an even playing field, when you enter everyone has  the weapons, armor, skills, and level of a level 80.

    WvW on the other hand everyone is bolstered to the stats of a level 80 but you only have what you came in from pve with weapons armor and skills

  • EvilGeekEvilGeek londonPosts: 1,225Member Uncommon

    If my time isn't rewarded with fun I'm gone. Chasing the carrot only remains fun until it gets repetitive and time consuming, then it becomes a chore. I know other people feel differently, that's fine but I'm happy with the way GW2 is shaping up on that front. The dungeons look intense, a real challenge in explorable mode, I'll have fun playing with my guildies working on different ways to master encounters, team work, social interaction, challenge and a good laugh will be my driving force, not gear.

    It's inevitable there will be grind at end game until new content arrives, but that will be for achievements and weapon/armour skins, all purely optional, you're not paying to hang around if none of that suits you.

    As much as I want everyone to get in to GW2, if you aren't enjoying what the game has at the beginning and expect the game to start at lvl 80 and not at lvl 1 maybe the game just isn't for you? I'd still encourage you to give it a shot though, you never know you might enjoy it.

    image
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