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Honest question, fanbois and haters try and be objective

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Comments

  • illeriller Aspen''s 4th hole, COPosts: 510Member

    Originally posted by KingGator

    Allow me to state I wasn't in beta, haven't applied to beta, but am intersted in this game. All I know is what i've read here and other sites and seen on youtube. The game strikes me as intersting and has many elements that I find appealing, but are they about to perpetrate a huge bait and switch on us calling this game b2p when it is really F2P(or worse yet P2W)?

    No they're not.   It's really simple too:  Arenanet has never been a company of "Shrewd Businessmen".

     

    ...and they never will be...   It's actually a valid complaint infact when it comes to their designs and marketing.  Their Naivete actually becomes a little annoying after a while.  They're often too generous to a community that's full of people who really ARE shrewd and always take advantage (read: Exploit) all of Anet's good intentions.

     

    Also:  Don't expect the same level of new content that some subscription MMO's put out.

    Major patches that fixed core Class issues in GW1 often took 6-8 months to get done.  GW2 will have a much larger live team but don't go expecting large chunks of new Content every couple months for Free.   ...(Don't expect any in the CashShop either.  Most of their stuff there has always been "Costumes")

  • RobertDinhRobertDinh bothell, WAPosts: 647Member

    They did bait and switch, they originally said cosmetic items would only be in cash shop, now it is a bunch of other stuff too that gives you progression advantages. 

  • illeriller Aspen''s 4th hole, COPosts: 510Member

    They NEVER SAID THAT.   They parse their language very carefully about selling Game-Advantages

  • kitaradkitarad RomePosts: 1,742Member Uncommon

    image

     

    Got to hand it to them it is b2p with a cash shop that people are defending.

    image

  • L0C0ManL0C0Man Puerto OrdazPosts: 1,065Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by KingGator

    Allow me to state I wasn't in beta, haven't applied to beta, but am intersted in this game. All I know is what i've read here and other sites and seen on youtube. The game strikes me as intersting and has many elements that I find appealing, but are they about to perpetrate a huge bait and switch on us calling this game b2p when it is really F2P(or worse yet P2W)?

     

    Basically are they going to SELL US a free to play cash shop game? If so I am out and before you flame away keep in mind I am not saying it will be one way or the other, but things I've read have me a little bit disappointed and a little less likely to try it, but we shall see.

    The main difference between GW2 and F2P games (as far as i can see) is that in all F2P games I've tried (and they are quite a few) there's always a brick wall where you can't realistically progress any further without paying, either because the content is locked, or the gear/power needed to complete that content is off limits to free players.

    That's the difference I see with GW2. Nothing is blocked, nothing is off limits if you don't use the cash shop. Some people might level faster, or get to some content faster by paying, but that doesn't mean you can't get to it as well, and without an overly long grind. Basically, at least in my case, everything that made me want this game is still there for me to enjoy, the cash shop hasn't changed it for now. Now, if they were to sell gear with stats that I'd need to complete the dungeons and that can't be gotten in the game (or that can only be gotten by doing a long and tedious grind), or the game was shipping with zones/dungeons locked and I had to pay to enter then, I'd think otherwise.

    Of course, your mileage may vary. The fact that some people are doing some things (like leveling) faster than me by paying doesn't bother me. If it does bother you, then you'll of course not enjoy playing so I'd say give it a skip. After all, it is a game, as in, something we do for fun. No point playing if it isn't going to be fun for you.

    What can men do against such reckless hate?

  • RefMinorRefMinor MyTownPosts: 3,452Member
    Originally posted by kitarad

    image

     
    Got to hand it to them it is b2p with a cash shop that people are defending.

     

    Not many brands can do that, sad really.
  • KingGatorKingGator Tampa, FLPosts: 453Member

    Originally posted by kitarad

    image

     

     

    Got to hand it to them it is b2p with a cash shop that people are defending.

     

    I am starting to feel like people are defending it because the mmo space has been so freaking bleak since WoW devoured its soul. What you just wrote is my fear. If I pay for this game, 60 bucks no less, and it turns out to be just another f2p title(or worse p2w) I will be furious with myself for getting suckered. 

     

    Most of the stuff on their cash shop is on f2p games' shop as well. I just can't shake the feeling that I'd be paying 60 bucks for a f2p game. I know, i know, nothing to substantiate that yet, but it is my fear.

  • RequiamerRequiamer ???Posts: 2,034Member

    Originally posted by RizelStar

    Originally posted by cali59

    It's B2P because you buy the box and then never have to buy anything else.

    While I understand skepticism about a cash shop, the nature of the game itself keeps it in check (no vertical progression, totally balanced structured PVP, autoscaling down in PVE, etc)

    This is a very good video for explaining why this cash shop really isn't a big issue.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Kx7o7CRoDXc

    Nuff said.

    Are you guys really thinking the reason excuse given to explain the relation gem/mist castle buff is even remotely appropriate in this video?  Should i list them?

    - "If you don't want to get the buff avoid the castle" is kind of scary isn't it?

    - " Buff are on timer", no really aren't all buff on timer anyway?

    - "They work only at the vascinity" Don't you usually use a buff when a fight start anyway? The guy seam to think its a good deal because you won't be able to upkeep your buff all the time during 2 week, it seam to cost too much, wtf?... I mean seriously. I don't want to raise a panic, but how can those "excuse" be even used?

    - Ho ye, the last one must win the competition of the scariest excuse, "the mist is not supposed to be balnced", so let us make it even less balanced with the cash shop? No really are you guys serious?

     

    Isn't it exactly those kind of stuff not only the cash shop but the entire GW2 design supposed to avoid? did i miss something?

     

  • jtcgsjtcgs New Port Richey, ILPosts: 1,777Member

    Originally posted by KingGator 

    Basically are they going to SELL US a free to play cash shop game? If so I am out and before you flame away keep in mind I am not saying it will be one way or the other, but things I've read have me a little bit disappointed and a little less likely to try it, but we shall see.

    Go read about what is going to be in the shop and you will see it wont be P2W.

    The only way it could be a pay to win game is if the only way to achieve a power/buff is via paying. Other than that, everyone pays 2 win via subscription anyway so WTF...

    pay $15 a month to be able to access the game or pay $2-3 a month to buy buffs in a free game OMG ITS PAY TO WINZOR!

    “I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  • Cthulhu23Cthulhu23 Tempe, AZPosts: 994Member

    Let's put it this way:  The GW2 cash shop, at least from what has been leaked (and I guess we can't be 100% sure of its accuracy), is not what we'd normally associate with a P2W model.  However, it's also got some disappointing features to it that  we didn't expect to see, based on everything Arena Net has said about it.  

    I mean, I'm actually okay with XP boosts in cash shops.  I kind of expect stuff like that, and for casuals that can't spend 6-8 hours a day playing, it's a pretty fair system.  But needing to buy a key to unlock random chests in the world?  AWFUL.  Not sure how accurate that is, or how common these chests are, but I can honestly say that this has to be one of  the worst ideas I've ever heard of for a cash shop.  Hopefully, this doesn't make it live, because depending on how often these chests appear, that is the very definition of giving a player an "advantage" over others.

    So, it's not P2W, but it's not as harmless as Arena Net has cracked it up to be, either.

  • BadSpockBadSpock Somewhere, MIPosts: 7,974Member

    Originally posted by Cthulhu23

    Let's put it this way:  The GW2 cash shop, at least from what has been leaked (and I guess we can't be 100% sure of its accuracy), is not what we'd normally associate with a P2W model.  However, it's also got some disappointing features to it that  we didn't expect to see, based on everything Arena Net has said about it.  

    I mean, I'm actually okay with XP boosts in cash shops.  I kind of expect stuff like that, and for casuals that can't spend 6-8 hours a day playing, it's a pretty fair system.  But needing to buy a key to unlock random chests in the world?  AWFUL.  Not sure how accurate that is, or how common these chests are, but I can honestly say that this has to be one of  the worst ideas I've ever heard of for a cash shop.  Hopefully, this doesn't make it live, because depending on how often these chests appear, that is the very definition of giving a player an "advantage" over others.

    So, it's not P2W, but it's not as harmless as Arena Net has cracked it up to be, either.

    Wouldn't that be 100% totally completely without any doubt ENTIRELY dependant on what is in the chests?

     

  • DJJazzyDJJazzy louisville, COPosts: 2,053Member

    We need to be careful on jumping to conclusions on the content of the cash shop. If we go by a reddit nda leak post then some of those items that were shown on the 4chan cash shop pics were taken out. So what will actually be in the shop is very much in flux.

  • BadSpockBadSpock Somewhere, MIPosts: 7,974Member

    Originally posted by DJJazzy

    We need to be careful on jumping to conclusions on the content of the cash shop. If we go by a reddit nda leak post then some of those items that were shown on the 4chan cash shop pics were taken out. So what will actually be in the shop is very much in flux.

    It'd be entirely possible Anet is putting items in that may be controversial during beta, under NDA...

    wait for it..

    ON PURPOSE

    to gage what the community deems is appropriate versus unappropriate.

    And keeping the feedback they get under wraps as not to alarm or turn off the general gaming public.

     

    You know.. being smart.

     

    I mean, if the reaction this site is any indication, I wouldn't lift the NDA on the microtransactions until everything is 100% finalized.

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,905Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by BadSpock

    Originally posted by Cthulhu23

    Let's put it this way:  The GW2 cash shop, at least from what has been leaked (and I guess we can't be 100% sure of its accuracy), is not what we'd normally associate with a P2W model.  However, it's also got some disappointing features to it that  we didn't expect to see, based on everything Arena Net has said about it.  

    I mean, I'm actually okay with XP boosts in cash shops.  I kind of expect stuff like that, and for casuals that can't spend 6-8 hours a day playing, it's a pretty fair system.  But needing to buy a key to unlock random chests in the world?  AWFUL.  Not sure how accurate that is, or how common these chests are, but I can honestly say that this has to be one of  the worst ideas I've ever heard of for a cash shop.  Hopefully, this doesn't make it live, because depending on how often these chests appear, that is the very definition of giving a player an "advantage" over others.

    So, it's not P2W, but it's not as harmless as Arena Net has cracked it up to be, either.

    Wouldn't that be 100% totally completely without any doubt ENTIRELY dependant on what is in the chests?

     

    To me that's a smaller issue compared to how these boxes are implemented, and how often you loot things that you can't open without spending RL cash, or if it entails long grinds to do it the alternative way in game. Never been a fan of those types of item-shop practices.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • BadSpockBadSpock Somewhere, MIPosts: 7,974Member

    Originally posted by Distopia

    Originally posted by BadSpock


    Originally posted by Cthulhu23

     But needing to buy a key to unlock random chests in the world?  AWFUL.  Not sure how accurate that is, or how common these chests are, but I can honestly say that this has to be one of  the worst ideas I've ever heard of for a cash shop.  

    So, it's not P2W, but it's not as harmless as Arena Net has cracked it up to be, either.

    Wouldn't that be 100% totally completely without any doubt ENTIRELY dependant on what is in the chests?

    To me that's a smaller issue compared to how these boxes are implemented, and how often you loot things that you can't open without spending RL cash, or if it entails long grinds to do it the alternative way in game. Never been a fan of those types of item-shop practices.

    Or you could say it's like buying a treasure map - then you have to go in game and find the treasure and that is your reward.

    Like you said, it's all about how it is implemented.

    I highly doubt Anet would place them on the loot tables of random mobs you'd kill in the world.

    You are right, the "I'm sorry you can't get loot from the monster you just killed unles you pay 1.99$" would be a terrible idea, so terrible, in fact, no one would be stupid enough to do it.

     

  • RoybeRoybe Star, NCPosts: 420Member

    Originally posted by BlahTeeb

    There are two main issues with the store right now. One is that the gems can and will be traded for in game gold. The second is that they are selling experience boosts.

     

    The first problem, trading gems, goes both way. You can also buy gems with in-game gold. Therefore, someone who spent five dollars to buy gems may sell them for gold, which may only take a few hours to accumulate. We do not know and will not know the extact transaction rate until the game is matured. So this is purely speculation. So in this sense, they are actually giving you EVERYTHING in the cash shop for free as long as you can save up enough gold.

    I disagree with this idea.  Completely.  This game has a chance to go the way of Diablo 2, and what I call the SoJ problem.  In D2, as we all remember gold became worthless and an in game item (Stone's of Jordan (SoJ)) became the de facto currency.  Something similar could occur here.  Since gems are tied to hard currency, in game gold runs the chance of becoming worthless.  For example you will be able to sell your found Uber Sword of Goodness for 500,000 gold...and you will find someone to buy it for that, however, if you are buying said Sword I'd bet you'd be hard put to find someone that would sell it to you for gold.  They'd want the most amount of the defacto currency they could get.  In GW1 it was Ecto's.  In GW2, it might be Cash Shop gems. 

    Now, can someone explain to me how this WON'T happen?  Or is it only a matter of time before gold devalues and we have an item in the cash shop that will have to be bought to trade for any in game item?

     

  • BadSpockBadSpock Somewhere, MIPosts: 7,974Member

    Originally posted by Roybe

    Originally posted by BlahTeeb



    There are two main issues with the store right now. One is that the gems can and will be traded for in game gold. The second is that they are selling experience boosts.

    The first problem, trading gems, goes both way. You can also buy gems with in-game gold. Therefore, someone who spent five dollars to buy gems may sell them for gold, which may only take a few hours to accumulate. We do not know and will not know the extact transaction rate until the game is matured. So this is purely speculation. So in this sense, they are actually giving you EVERYTHING in the cash shop for free as long as you can save up enough gold.

    I disagree with this idea.  Completely.  This game has a chance to go the way of Diablo 2, and what I call the SoJ problem.  In D2, as we all remember gold became worthless and an in game item (Stone's of Jordan (SoJ)) became the de facto currency.  Something similar could occur here.  Since gems are tied to hard currency, in game gold runs the chance of becoming worthless.  For example you will be able to sell your found Uber Sword of Goodness for 500,000 gold...and you will find someone to buy it for that, however, if you are buying said Sword I'd bet you'd be hard put to find someone that would sell it to you for gold.  They'd want the most amount of the defacto currency they could get.  In GW1 it was Ecto's.  In GW2, it might be Cash Shop gems. 

    Now, can someone explain to me how this WON'T happen?  Or is it only a matter of time before gold devalues and we have an item in the cash shop that will have to be bought to trade for any in game item?

    Strict control over the rate in which currency is added into the world (gold/karma) versus sales figures for gems.

  • ComfyChairComfyChair BirminghamPosts: 758Member

    Every MMO has a system where you can buy gold with real money, it's called chinese gold farming.

    Difference is that in GW2 gold doesn't mean nearly as much as other MMO's.

    Maybe i just know too much about the game to think it could ever be an issue (and i know too much about MMO's to think gold selling wont happen), but i didn't give the slightest damn when they announced the ability to 'buy gold' via trading useful diamonds to other players legally.

    It should be a pretty big massive 'wait a second' sign if people who've been following the game for years and years see the cash shop and don't even blink, yet people who jumped on the hype train in February are freaking out.

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,905Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by BadSpock

    Originally posted by Distopia


    Originally posted by BadSpock


    Originally posted by Cthulhu23

     But needing to buy a key to unlock random chests in the world?  AWFUL.  Not sure how accurate that is, or how common these chests are, but I can honestly say that this has to be one of  the worst ideas I've ever heard of for a cash shop.  

    So, it's not P2W, but it's not as harmless as Arena Net has cracked it up to be, either.

    Wouldn't that be 100% totally completely without any doubt ENTIRELY dependant on what is in the chests?

    To me that's a smaller issue compared to how these boxes are implemented, and how often you loot things that you can't open without spending RL cash, or if it entails long grinds to do it the alternative way in game. Never been a fan of those types of item-shop practices.

    Or you could say it's like buying a treasure map - then you have to go in game and find the treasure and that is your reward.

    Like you said, it's all about how it is implemented.

    I highly doubt Anet would place them on the loot tables of random mobs you'd kill in the world.

    You are right, the "I'm sorry you can't get loot from the monster you just killed unles you pay 1.99$" would be a terrible idea, so terrible, in fact, no one would be stupid enough to do it.

     

     Cryptic basically did. But you're right I'm not saying they will be like that just hoping they're not :).

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • BaniscoBanisco LoquilandiaPosts: 240Member

    Originally posted by BadSpock

    Originally posted by Roybe


    Originally posted by BlahTeeb



    There are two main issues with the store right now. One is that the gems can and will be traded for in game gold. The second is that they are selling experience boosts.

    The first problem, trading gems, goes both way. You can also buy gems with in-game gold. Therefore, someone who spent five dollars to buy gems may sell them for gold, which may only take a few hours to accumulate. We do not know and will not know the extact transaction rate until the game is matured. So this is purely speculation. So in this sense, they are actually giving you EVERYTHING in the cash shop for free as long as you can save up enough gold.

    I disagree with this idea.  Completely.  This game has a chance to go the way of Diablo 2, and what I call the SoJ problem.  In D2, as we all remember gold became worthless and an in game item (Stone's of Jordan (SoJ)) became the de facto currency.  Something similar could occur here.  Since gems are tied to hard currency, in game gold runs the chance of becoming worthless.  For example you will be able to sell your found Uber Sword of Goodness for 500,000 gold...and you will find someone to buy it for that, however, if you are buying said Sword I'd bet you'd be hard put to find someone that would sell it to you for gold.  They'd want the most amount of the defacto currency they could get.  In GW1 it was Ecto's.  In GW2, it might be Cash Shop gems. 

    Now, can someone explain to me how this WON'T happen?  Or is it only a matter of time before gold devalues and we have an item in the cash shop that will have to be bought to trade for any in game item?

    Strict control over the rate in which currency is added into the world (gold/karma) versus sales figures for gems.

    Also gems can only be purchased with gold, much like Spiral Knigths energy. There is no direct trade for gems<---->items

  • ComfyChairComfyChair BirminghamPosts: 758Member

    The mystic chests are essentially the same as the ones in TF2. If you get one you just trade it for something.

     

    I get the feeling they'll be removed though. I just don't see them selling well.

     

  • AvatarBladeAvatarBlade BucurestiPosts: 770Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Requiamer

    Originally posted by RizelStar


    Originally posted by cali59

    It's B2P because you buy the box and then never have to buy anything else.

    While I understand skepticism about a cash shop, the nature of the game itself keeps it in check (no vertical progression, totally balanced structured PVP, autoscaling down in PVE, etc)

    This is a very good video for explaining why this cash shop really isn't a big issue.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Kx7o7CRoDXc

    Nuff said.

    Are you guys really thinking the reason excuse given to explain the relation gem/mist castle buff is even remotely appropriate in this video?  Should i list them?

    - "If you don't want to get the buff avoid the castle" is kind of scary isn't it?

    - " Buff are on timer", no really aren't all buff on timer anyway?

    - "They work only at the vascinity" Don't you usually use a buff when a fight start anyway? The guy seam to think its a good deal because you won't be able to upkeep your buff all the time during 2 week, it seam to cost too much, wtf?... I mean seriously. I don't want to raise a panic, but how can those "excuse" be even used?

    - Ho ye, the last one must win the competition of the scariest excuse, "the mist is not supposed to be balnced", so let us make it even less balanced with the cash shop? No really are you guys serious?

     

    Isn't it exactly those kind of stuff not only the cash shop but the entire GW2 design supposed to avoid? did i miss something?

     

    Really, why is everyone ignoring what this guy is saying? Is it wrong or do people just not want to acknowledge that this might be a problem?

  • MonorojoMonorojo San Diego, CAPosts: 411Member

    Currenly GW2 is a pay to win game. There are several elements in the cash shop that give players willing to spend money significant time advantages. People will level to 80 faster if they pay than if they do ot. In WvWvW, where gear and progression will matter, anyone who does not pay for the time savers will be significantly behind those that do.

     

    I plead to you TC to avoid this game like the plague, unless you plan on spending several 100s of dollars on the cash shop. I do not want you to waste your time.

  • MonorojoMonorojo San Diego, CAPosts: 411Member

    Originally posted by AvatarBlade

    Originally posted by Requiamer


    Originally posted by RizelStar


    Originally posted by cali59

    It's B2P because you buy the box and then never have to buy anything else.

    While I understand skepticism about a cash shop, the nature of the game itself keeps it in check (no vertical progression, totally balanced structured PVP, autoscaling down in PVE, etc)

    This is a very good video for explaining why this cash shop really isn't a big issue.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Kx7o7CRoDXc

    Nuff said.

    Are you guys really thinking the reason excuse given to explain the relation gem/mist castle buff is even remotely appropriate in this video?  Should i list them?

    - "If you don't want to get the buff avoid the castle" is kind of scary isn't it?

    - " Buff are on timer", no really aren't all buff on timer anyway?

    - "They work only at the vascinity" Don't you usually use a buff when a fight start anyway? The guy seam to think its a good deal because you won't be able to upkeep your buff all the time during 2 week, it seam to cost too much, wtf?... I mean seriously. I don't want to raise a panic, but how can those "excuse" be even used?

    - Ho ye, the last one must win the competition of the scariest excuse, "the mist is not supposed to be balnced", so let us make it even less balanced with the cash shop? No really are you guys serious?

     

    Isn't it exactly those kind of stuff not only the cash shop but the entire GW2 design supposed to avoid? did i miss something?

     

    Really, why is everyone ignoring what this guy is saying? Is it wrong or do people just not want to acknowledge that this might be a problem?

    He is 100% correct and there are serious issues with this cash shop that the majority of fans are choosing to ignore. It is really a sad state of affairs.

  • ComfyChairComfyChair BirminghamPosts: 758Member

    Originally posted by Monorojo

    Currenly GW2 is a pay to win game. There are several elements in the cash shop that give players willing to spend money significant time advantages. People will level to 80 faster if they pay than if they do ot. In WvWvW, where gear and progression will matter, anyone who does not pay for the time savers will be significantly behind those that do.

    Lol. You'll always be behind someone. If they spent £100 or so to get exp boosts until they hit 80, let them do it until their heart's content. I doesn't make any difference to me. In WvW i don't even know their name.

    Also, when you're also level 80, they have no advantage over you. Therefore, not pay 2 win.

    However, it's abundant that people certainly don't have to Pay 2 derp about pay 2 win.

     

This discussion has been closed.